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Shades Marathon Training

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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G / Shades - Yes, I think it uses a combination of movement and heart rate. Mine has thought I've been asleep before while watching TV as I've not moved for a while :D
    Cal - Hope that niggle clears up.

    Another 6 miles this morning, 9:26 average for 122bpm average, still cold out (-2c), but no ice which is good. Felt really comfortable.
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    BG/Shades - I think it maybe more to do with movement as mine frequently claims i am deep sleeping when i am in bed on the laptop.....  As Steve says watching tv is good for flagging as sleep too but i find that ONLY happens if i am stretched out on sofa not sat up watching tv and on laptop
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Sorry the weather is still stopping you down there.
    Went for a run with the wife yesterday and it was really nice,bit of a chill but perfect when we warmed up,felt nice to run slow,then off to the gym tonight,got to say I was bored senseless,certainly won't be keeping it up once I'm back.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve/Keith - I guess it doesn't really matter as long as your watch doesn't record you as asleep when you're at work ;) 

    Ian - I know, I can only see working out at the gym as something that is for the benefit of my running.   I don't think I've been in the gym for 2 years now, I should go back really.
    I can't understand the appeal of going to the gym for no other reason than just going to the gym!   At least you can still do some running so that you help you deal with this difficult time.   

    Lovely morning here, very light frost but ice free so had a lovely run, got within 3 foot of an egret, closest I've been, they're usually quite shy but I think he'd spotted a fish.
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    Shades - You can define normal sleep periods ;) Mines defined as 10pm to 6am so its unlikely to ever flag as sleeping at work.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - soon employers will have sensors fitted in your desk chair that will know if you are asleep ;) 

    When's your next marathon I'll be updating the marathon list soon?
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    I think it must be activity in my case, as I my watch hasn't got an inbuilt HR monitor and also I didn't bring my strap with me as I wasn't running in Edinburgh.  It does have a feature where the watch beeps, vibrates and displays "Move!" after a period of inactivity....it was amusing to start with but quickly became annoying (it beeped at precisely 8am, when I was still in bed....) so I promptly turned that feature off!

    I flew back from Edinburgh yesterday.  I have been before a couple of times - once on my best mate's stag do, and once with Claire, but I did some different things the last couple of days.  We did quite a lot of walking and obviously not boozing means I went to try some different cafes etc, a couple of which were very good indeed.  We did go to the National Museum, which was very good, and also went into the paid exhibit for the Wildlife Photographer of the Year which was very good.  Also, we walked up to Arthur's Seat one one side, and Nelson's Monument on the other, which th had really good views in what was decent weather.  So it was a great couple of days, after the stress of wondering if I was going to get there or not on Sunday/Monday.

    Back to normal now, which is probably a good thing!  I've just been for a short run (3 miles) and, as the house is more-or-less empty, stopped off to get some milk on the way back, but will need to do a shop later.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ha, Big G - my Garmin has those features too. I quite like that it counts steps but it usually stays plugged into the PC until I'm ready to run.

    Speaking of which, I was planning on a rest day (with hot pilates) but when I went out to drop my laundry off I realised what a lovely day it was. It suddenly seemd to be Spring, at long last. So I got home, put my running things on, which for the first time this year meant just a T-shirt on top, and went out. Of course, as soon as I got outside the sun had disappeared behind a cloud, and by the third mile the sky was completely grey. Sod's law.  But eh, I got a recovery run done and wasn't too cold in the T-shirt. Yay.
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    Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Afternoon folks... 

    Talking about features on garmin's , it's quite amazing that data that you can get from such a small bit of kit ..from ground contact time to vo2 max and obviously steps and distance etc. I looked at my step count and distance over the past 12 months I've walked/run 4070.91 miles and taken 7683983 steps. Thats a fair bit on my feet ...

    This week is an easy week training where all my runs are at an easy pace and then on Sunday in going to do 18-20 miles with 15@ MP so kind of race simulation. 

    Big_G - I love Edinburgh. Lived on the outskirts for 6years and could never get enough of the scenery specialy when the snow was on the hills ..
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Iain, I know what you mean about the snow on the hills.  Although it was totally fine in Edinburgh with no snow, around the hills there was snow on the peaks, which was great to see from the view points.  Even on top of the National Museum there is a roof terrace and again the views from up there were fantastic towards the hills, but also towards the castle.   Very nice.  That's a lot of steps/mileage for a year.

    I know a lot of people try and do their 10000 steps a day, and I have to say it's probably not that straight forward for people, especially if they have an office job etc.  I'd imagine that most of us on here do it easily on a running day, but 10000 steps is actually quite a lot.  I imagine that before I was a runner and also had an office job I did significantly less than 10000 steps a day.
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    Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Big_G - my OH averages about 5000 a day so I can see how tough it can be but she says I do enough for the two of us. On days I don't run I do around 21500 but days I do run its well over 30000+ I think the most I've done in a day out around the 56000 mark but I did run 33 miles. ?
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Iain, that is a significant number of steps.  I did 17000 one day in Edinburgh (with no running) and that seemed quite a lot, and I like to think of myself as a) reasonably fit and b) a good walker!
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I did 7-miles this morning in what were good running conditions, but I found it quite a tough run for some reason, as my breathing was laboured.  I'm glad I went out though.  Step count: 11828 steps in total for today, and somehow the Garmin has upped my target from 10000 to 10410 for the day, because of my run, but I'm not sure how that new figure is worked out in relation to the miles/steps I did on my run.

    Meeting with Shades later for a coffee and exchange of running books :)  

    New Tavy 13 date is out, but it clashes with another race I'm doing (Great Welsh, which Shades is also doing), so I can't make the new date :(  They're doing refunds though, so I've requested that although from memory it was only about £11 I think.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - in that recent TV programme on fitness they found that aiming for 10,000 steps didn't improve fitness as much as 3 x 10 minute walks a day where the walking was done at an aerobic pace, just fast enough to be slightly out of breath.

    I think Tavy were talking of deferring to next year which would be my option but it's not mentioned in their recent post so I'll ask for a refund too.

    See you later. :)
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    Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Morning shadies.. 

    Had a pretty rubbish 8 miles yesterday. From about 3 miles on my stomach started to cramp and by 7 miles I was worried I wouldn't make it home in time. .looked online and possible cause was dehydration which I can agree with so I'm making an effort to drink more .. Rest day today so once I finish work it will be feet up and relax.. 
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    JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Morning all, 10 miles for me this morning, legs felt heavy and I was surprised how warm it was, spring here at last. Had shower and coffee, now listening to Tubular Bells and thinking about making more coffee and a ginger cake, beats working every day!
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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Iain - That's a crazy amount of steps each day!!
    Big G - Yeah that feature got turned off on mine as well. Especially as it was telling me to move after I'd already hit my target for the day!!

    10k steps a day is definately a lot. I average over 10k a day, but that's due to the running. On my rest days I normally only get 3k-4k per day, whereas if I run I've done 10k by 6am in the week. Most I ever got was just under 110k steps, but that was after SVP :D

    Anyway an easy 9 miles on Thursday, averaged 8:35, but started at 9:18 and finished with a 8:11, wasn't planning for it to be progressive, just turned out that way, apart from mile 6, each mile was progressively faster too! 18 miles planned for tomorrow.
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    On the steps front when I used to be community policing when we had to walk everywhere my daily steps would be anything from 25,000 up to around 40,000. Now I am response policing and go everywhere in a car I am only getting about 5,000 daily unless I go for a run.
    Shades- I also saw that programme on fitness and it was interesting in regards the 10,000 daily steps.

    20miles today decent weather apart from a beast of a wind. Set of around 8.50 per mile pace manged to keep that pace which was a surprise however had to run the final 12 miles mostly into the headwind which was very testing. Used any downhill section to open up the legs wich gave me final time of 8.40 ave pace. Ended up being one of my toughest runs due to the wind but glad i done it.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Steve, I reckon before I was a runner and when I was far less active than I am now, I'd have been down at around 3K pretty much every day, probably even less.  Those days I was very overweight and I remember I had a latte and a kit kat chunky for morning and afternoon break every day, from the snack shop - it just became a habit, rather than something to enjoy.  When I initially tried to lose some weight I started to walk to work and I did that for a few weeks, but that did nothing to shift any weight at all.  This was before I knew how calorific certain foods were and I also knew very little about how few calories are burned during exercise, in comparison what calories are in food.  I.E., a kit kat chunky and a latte is probably 500 calories, so a 2-mile walk to work (let's say that's 200-250 calories burned, twice a day) does very little really.  It was quite a depressing moment when this realisation finally dawned on me....!

    Had a nice catch up with Shades.  Talking about coffees, we both had two and a nice piece of cake each :)  But of course I am much more active these days than I was all those years ago, so I don't really worry about this as much any more :)  

    I see there is an article today that links obesity to cancer etc.  I don't know if I've mentioned this before on here, but I find it a bit strange that the teens and young adults of today are drinking less alcohol and smoking less than ever before, but struggle with obesity more than previous generations.  I don't claim to understand the reasons behind this, but I do find it odd.  Experts claim it could be a lack of education issue, but I can't believe this is the whole reason.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Big G - I think it's because kids now grew up playing on computers rather than going outside - that and the paranoia about kids being snatched by paedos means parents now are over protective. My parents would think nothing about letting me walk a mile to my friend's house on my own and groups of kids would play in the street. Now they're indoors a lot more.

    The steps thing - yeah. I took a rest day today but felt a bit sluggish so I've been for a two mile walk and notched up around 4500 steps (that was the walk and then me hoovering the hallway). I didn't have the watch on earlier so it didn't record the steps from when I went to collect my laundry, which would have been about another 2000. A lot of folks don't even move that much during a day.

    I've been a bit naughty and bought two more pairs of running shoes. More Nike Free Motions. I still have a mint pair in the cupboard but Nike don't make that version of the shoe now - the new version has a sock-type ankle and velcro instead of laces. The laces are pretty much redundant but I don't see how I can attach a race chip safely to a big fat velcro strap. Anyway, I found Nike.com still had some of the old style, unfortunately in boring black, but I bought two pairs for the stockpile.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-It could be the amount of salt and sugar in processed food these days. 
    In terms of steps I may measure it some day,I reckon most Friday and Saturday I must do 12-15000 in work and less during the week when I have more office based work to do.
    No runs since Tuesday for me,I put my shoes on earlier and noticed the spot where the top meets my Achilles is the exact spot I got tendinitis.I compared with my guide 9's(old shoes) and they are lower so didn't rub in that spot,not sure if it's linked but I'm going to do my runs when better in my old ones as they will be short and see if there's any difference.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    steven - the last 12 miles into a headwind is very tough going, a good long run for you.

    Big G - with the true amount of calories that we as humans actually need and the amount we consume these days it's amazing that we're not all huge.

    Really enjoyed our coffee and cake, it was a huge piece of cake :) 

    Re the obesity, a lot of the kids are growing up in homes where their parents can't/won't cook and have no knowledge or don't care about nutrition.   They buy ready meals and processed foods and think they are giving their children the right food.  And as Cal says they sit at computers, their parents often don't exercise and don't want or care if their children exercise or get out and about and play sports.   I'm so cross when I see on TV that they show an overweight child and the parents saying they do what they can to help the child lose weight and live healthily when if you just look at the parents usually both but always one is seriously overweight.   Children learn their eating habits from their parents.  When you hear someone say that 'their family has always been big' that means 'their family eat too much', portion sizes are copied.

    Cal - I don't think buying running shoes is naughty at all, just prudent shopping. :) 

    Ian - I can remember runners cutting out the heel tabs on their running shoes if they touched the achilles so that's a wise move. 

    Rest day for me today as I have a race tomorrow, this is the postponed 20 mile race I was due to do a few weeks ago.

    Last night I went to the Sports Psychology evening hosted by my club, Big G came along too.   It was all about race day performance.  We did a group hypnosis session and I really enjoyed it and I think I could find this really beneficial.  We have a handout so we can practise ourselves and the session was recorded and we'll be able to get a copy of that too.
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    JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    It's easy for people to judge the obesity.  Big G you've given up alcohol so you don't buy drink but if someone said to you, ok you have to have buy small amount and drink X amount a day, or smoking, you have to buy a packet but you can only have X amount. Food is a who,e different ball game and unless you've walked in those shoes you have no idea. I wasn't good at anything as a child and was left to my own devices most of the time, being part of a big family with very little money, the only think I remember getting praise for was my appetite. Before you all start slating my family there was a lot of love and parents both working full time didn't know about all the bullying and me skipping school. Food was my comfort and was something I was very good at. My too daughters are over weight, youngest has been over weight for a long time, I've tried my best, buying healthy food (we don't own a microwave) they can both cook from scratch and can even do full roast they are 16 and 19.  Some of the clubs they have done synchronised swimming, life saving (youngest still does) football, both recently just gave up, swimming both still do, youngest has done Ten Tors and still likes walking, both walked to school. But they both earn their own money and buy food.  As parents we are scared to be too hard on our children as if we make weight a issue it could turn into eating disorder.  We need food and I still struggle everyday with my eating and now basically a rubbish mother too. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly, I've been obese so I do have some idea how hard it can be, and do still have to keep an eye on my weight, especially if I'm injured or not running.  There are lots of complex reasons behind it, but from my own point of view as I say I find it interesting that cigarettes and alcohol intake amongst the young is reducing, whereas obesity is rising (and from the predictions, it's set to continue to do so).  Food is different in terms of we obviously need food to live (where as cigarettes and alcohol are obviously not essential to life!), but I still don't think the issue is mainly down to education.  What I mean is, I think the majority of people know that a Big Mac and fries (for example) is not a healthy meal, so from that point of view it's not an education thing, as people already know its not healthy.  It's complex - advertising, salt, cheap take aways, lifestyle, peer pressure, promotions in pubs/fast food places etc - but again the predictions show that obesity in society is only going to get worse in the coming years, so a lot needs to change to reverse that trend.  It may well be an education-related issue in terms of people not knowing how many calories are in food, but it's a very complicated area.  Sadly, there are no easy answers.

    Shades, thanks again for the invite to last night.  I enjoyed it also.  I've done sessions similar to that in a work environment, and also when I was having counselling, but I couldn't relax and get into them at all whereas last night I think I got something from the session.  I couldn't really do that exercise where I had visualise myself at the start of a race (zooming in), but I think the thing that I may be able to make use of is when you visualise/remember a race/session when it was all going really well, and attach a name to it so you can recall it on the start line or during a race.  For me, I thought of Nottingham around that lake when I went under 3:30 and with about 4 miles to go, I just knew I was going to do it.  I'd been saying for months (maybe even years!) that I knew I could do 3:30, and it was a very good feeling at the time, so hopefully that may work in the future.  But I wonder if, in the heat of a race when things may not be going so well, I may forget do recall it!

    I've said this before on here, but I know for me a lot of it is in my head.  I know at some point I'm going to have to actually properly target a race and go for it, but for some reason that then becomes some kind of mental barrier, the nerves get even worse, and I don't perform.  Maybe some of these techniques may help in the future, but of course it still has to be built on decent training!

    I did ask the chap if sometimes a goal - i.e., "I want to go under 4hrs" - can be a barrier, rather than a driver.  I suppose it depends on how we're wired, but in my own case I think the 4hr goal did become a barrier (as opposed to a motivator/goal) somehow.  Again, that's in the head really, but it then makes me wonder if sometimes a time goal actually reduces a potential performance - again, in my own case, 4hrs was doable and once I broke that I did it regularly and later lopped a chunk off that time.  I don't think I was necessarily much fitter, but in some ways I could argue that the 4hr goal was holding me back.  Hard to explain really.  Also, going back to Nottingham, for me holding onto that 3:30 (and knowing I was going to do it, barring injury) was much, much easier for me mentally than chasing a time, if that makes sense?  So it does show that a lot of performance is in the head, at least in my case.  But it's not just one thing that leads to a good performance - everything has to come together on the day.  In that Nottingham example, I was feeling so good at 22 miles due to lots of reasons, but when he asked us to remember a good part in a race, that immediately came to my head.
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    JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Jelly, I’m sure you’re not a rubbish mother, from reading your last post it seems you had it tough as a kid and are doing your best with your girls. Don’t be hard on yourself, have a good day.
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    JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    I agree it’s the marketing of these foods and hidden sugar, my girls very rarely have Mac Donald’s but will often get pizza, and trying to tell oldest fruit juice has lots of sugar in. But I brought no sugar peanut butter which was highter price to find out it had palm oil in. Yuk.  I’m not doin well at the moment both diet wise or confidents. Regretting setting myself sub 4 target and everything is hard work and now Mum is back in hospital. I am looking forward to Devon Dumpling and found learning how to plot a route on map really interesting and looking forward to practice my new found skill of using a compass. My daughter has been a great Tutor. 
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    JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Thank Jugular and Big G 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Jelly - you are not a rubbish mother!   You are a fine example that you have struggled with your weight and you have now taken control and moved on so far that you've become a good marathon runner too.   You have given your girls all the tools now but they are of an age that they will make their own decisions for the future.

    I'm never really sure about the alcohol/cigarettes/food argument.   I have a friend who drinks too much but won't give up as he can't bear the thought of never having a drink ever again, he has health problems.  But he's lost 5 stone and found that not too difficult as he has learnt to cook and enjoy eating healthy and says that knowing that if he wants a piece of chocolate he can have it stops him overeating.   He has cut the drinking down but won't give up despite his doctor telling him he should.  He says that he's going to try substituting low/non alcoholic beer as the next step, not for every drink but I suppose that's a start.

    Big G - I didn't manage the zooming in either the first time, but the 2nd time I did and found it helpful as I was there but distancing myself from the distractions of the other runners.

    I think for a lot of us it's in our head, having the confidence at that moment to push on.  So practising the technique of recalling that 'memorable' time and reversing any negative feelings we might have that come on with tiredness.  I am going to practise every day.

    I'm sure specific time goals are barriers in our minds.  Like a high jump we treat it as a success if we clear it and a failure if we don't, when the result can be a huge stepping stone such as the sub 2 event.  It failed as a sub 2 but we can see that now it can be done with another 26 seconds.   But we will always set ourselves these goals in our minds and others will also set goals for us, but if we had no target time at all would our  performance be worse.
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    JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Jelly, Meridian peanut butter has nothing but peanuts in, no oil, sugar or salt.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Jelly - postpone/cancel your sub 4 target.   Tell everyone you are now postponing that sub 4 attempt until later in the year or even to next year.  You've already done a great PB this year you have nothing to prove.   Take the pressure off yourself and when you come to run Taunton run it on your own, no pacers, no friends, just run to enjoy the race at your pace.

    Enjoy tomorrow, LDWA events are stress free and a good day out, you'll enjoy it.

    It's a minefield trying to buy healthier foods such as peanut butter.   I think 99% of them have palm oil and if you buy the ones with no additives/oils/sugars they are £3 a small jar which is a lot.

    Sorry to hear your Mum is poorly again.  I hope she's back home soon.
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