Shades Marathon Training

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, it's interesting as one of the Trotter guys there last night is a quick runner (that chap you were talking to at the start - I think his car light was out?).  He runs with our young Trotter on occasion.  Anyway, at the end I was chatting to him and his view was interesting and again so different to mine.  He's obviously often at the front of the field in local races and he said something like "I let those guys go, as I know I'll catch them later".  For him, it really was about the competition and racing, and trying to beat other people, and knowing they're trying to beat him.  Not in an overly aggressive/competitive way, and I'm sure he's friends with a lot of them, but that was his motivation and also his enjoyment.  That rarely comes into it for me, and I suppose the main competition is with myself, but then of course I'm not at the front of the field.  Sometimes I may think to myself "OK, I'll try and catch them later as they're going too quick" or "Let's see if I can gain on him", but in my own mind it's not racing as such, as it's just keeping me going.  I find it really interesting what it is that drives different people on in this sport/hobby of ours.

    Jelly, regarding tomorrow, I think we'll enjoy it.  Personally, I'm just treating it as a training run, similar to what you organised that time from Coffinswell - time is irrelevant, which makes a nice change.  I'm looking forward to it, but I think it may be muddy in places, so I think I'm wearing trail shoes for the event, although one section of it is on good paths I believe.  Great that you've learned something about map reading etc :)  

    Just regarding your sub-4 target, you'll definitely get it when the time is right.  Really try and take the pressure off yourself, but I know that is not always easy.  I know when I was trying for it, I got myself so wound up and didn't overly enjoy the events, which is a shame really.

    I have just done 6-mile including parkrun.  The off-road bit was very, very off-road.  Calf-deep muddy water in places, and my white socks are now most definitely not white!  It was good to get out though.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that Trotter guy probably isn't running marathons though.   The shorter races are more about being  competitive beating other runners/other clubs especially if you're near the front of the field or in a club championship race.

    I hope today's mud wasn't that good red Devon earth!  If so, your white socks will be pink after the wash and that never comes out.

    btw did your Trotter vest survive after your last marathon?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, that is true.  His marathon PB is not a good conversion for him, which he'd say so himself - I think it's in the region of 3:07 or something like that.  I know he absolutely detonated at Barnstaple in 2016; he went around that in about 3:45, for which he got a lot of (friendly) stick for as his Half PB at the time was something in the region of 80-mins.  He's a postie, and does a lot of miles in his job as well.  When you seem him at full pelt though doing a 5K or something, he does look very smooth and in control.

    Yes, my vest came out okay after soaking it as you advised.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Jugula - I buy Meridian too. Orangutan friendly. :)

    Speaking of time barriers... I decided to try out a new parkrun today, so journeyed via Tube and DLR to Victoria Dock, which is only in its second week. It's a nice, fast flat U-shaped course that goes past the Excel, and it's quite a small field (97 runners today) so I thought I might do a decent time. Note that I've only run under 26 minutes twice, back at the end of 2016, once at Tooting Common parkrun and once on a track. Both times I ran 25:52. I wasn't really expecting to do that today, but thought it would be good to go under 27 at least. Well, I only went and knocked half a minute off my PB! Official time was 25:21! I mean, I ran as hard as a could but crikey, 31 seconds is a massive amount of time over 5K (especially for a busted 50 year old).
    I also finished 7th lady by dint of it being a small field (though annoyingly there was another 50-something 7 seconds in front of me, so I didn't get the age cat win).
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Congrats Cal, as you say that's a significant improvement!  Well done!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Average cadence was 186. I must have looked like a Hanna Barbera cartoon. :lol:
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Blimey Cal, Roadrunner! Well done.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Big G I did get my trails out only to put them away again, they are narrow and not done longer than half in them, I’m investing in so better one before Thr Crossing In August as that’s 34 across open moor. I want to do more self navigating races as want to do some longer distance in the future and need to be competent at map reading.   My backpack is packed and kit is sorted, off to visit Mum now as they have kept her in tonight. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - he'll maybe change his racing plan in the future at marathons, that must have been a tough lesson at Barnstaple, physically and mentally.

    Glad the vest is OK.

    Jugula/Cal - I used to buy Meridian almond butter which I loved but one day I went into Tesco and the price had increased by a pound, I called the manager and he checked for me and said the price increase was correct.   I didn't buy it and a few weeks later the same manager stopped me in Tesco and said that the price had now been reduced as their sales almost halted with the price increase, the increase and then the reduction had come from Meridian as they increased their prices to all the shops. I had checked prices in Asda etc and they were the same.   I've not bought it since, I did miss it for a while.   I won't be blackmailed into paying more, sometimes you just have to walk away.  Some price increases are just greedy manufacturers, build up a good brand loyalty then hike the price.  

    Cal - well done on your parkrun

    Good luck Jelly and Big G at Devon Dumpling today and anyone else racing.

    I have DNS'd my 20 mile race today as I'm not well, have a sore throat and just feel rough, my RHR was slightly raised yesterday and I felt very lethargic and tired.   I had a lazy day yesterday and prepped everything for today's race but when I woke today I still felt unwell and my RHR is 64 which is 20 bpm up on Thursday and Friday's RHR.   I have an ultra next weekend and I need to be well for that.  Sofa day for me today I think.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    That price hike was a bit of a shock, yeah, Shades. I do generally buy the big tub and if I see it on special offer I'll buy a couple. I am considering switching to Marmite though.

    Sorry you've missed your race but a 20 followed by an ultra would definitely be too much if you're under the weather (that would be too much for me in peak physical condition, to be honest).

    I had a bit of a weird run today. I did 18 miles and I felt tired and sluggish and yet I had to keep checking my pace. I ran the first two miles at easy pace but by 9 miles onwards I kept creeping up towards last year's MP. I did wear the Zoom Flys (I wanted to test the comfort level over a long run) but as I didn't want to do hills today I ended up doing laps of Clapham Common (I think I did six, with a bit of Tooting Common before and after) so I'm not sure how much of an advantage the shoes give on soft surfaces (since Clapham is mostly dirt).

    I admit I pushed on for the final mile (which I did in 9:45) just because I wanted the run done with. The Clapham part was a bit boring, but preferable to including Wandsworth Common which just seems to stretch on forever and saps me of the will to live.

    As for the shoes, I don't think they'll be comfortable enough for a road marathon. I've put the gel insoles in but I still noticed the balls of my feet when I got back on the pavements so I can imagine they'd be throbbing as though I'd been clubbing all night in stilletos if I attempted to run 26 on roads. Additionally, even though the insoles are quite thin, they make the toe box more cramped (the Zoom Fly sizes quite small - something I didn't realise until I read some user reviews on nike.com) so I'd be concerned about my feet swelling during the latter stages.

    They're great shoes for a 5 or 10K, so no regrets. I might buy again but I'd get a half size larger and get some thicker custom gel insoles made.

    Anyway...whew...41 miles for the week and now I can start my taper.
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Shades, hope you feel better soon. Talking of price hike/loyalty, we are looking at getting another car for my wife as when I’m working it’s rarely local so I need to drive a fair bit, we’re insured with RAC, so asked them for a quote for a second car, £830! For a mini not a Ferrari, I got other quotes for around £250.
    Very pleasant 6.5 miles this morning. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Great running for your pb.
    Shades-Pity you couldn't race,hopefully it will pass quickly.
    5.5 easy miles this morning,then our club was co-hosting the northern road relay championships so I went to marshall as wasn't fit enough to race.Quite a long day as there was junior races first before the adults but luckily it was a lovely spring day.
    Our u15's got silver and,awaiting confirmation,it looks like our ladies and mens side have both qualified for the nationals so a good day overall.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good running there Cal!

    It pays to shop around Jugula.  I've had similar shocking quotes for insurance for Pug 207!  Its strange though as when I had a Caterham, which was basically a go cart with very few safety features, and it was quick(!), insurance was peanuts for 10000 miles a year.

    Shades, sorry you weren't able to make the race.  You've not had much luck with races this year!

    As for me, I did Devonshire Dumpling today with Jelly and a team of Trotters (8 of us in our group) and we basically ran/walked it all together from start to finish.  It was a fantastic event, and my first LDWA event and I'd definitely do one again, but the conditions under foot were brutal!  Very slippery and muddy for large parts of it, and almost ankle deep slurry in other parts.  But it was a fantastic day out, with great views etc.

    The legendary LDWA check points (3 of them) and finish didn't disappoint.  Cakes (numerous types), fruit, sandwiches, cream tea, cheese straws, sausage rolls, teas, coffees, ginger beer, orange juice, etc etc.  I think a lot of it was home made, and it was fantastic.

    Sadly, it's the last time they're holding that event - I'm not sure the reason why.  In terms of time, as a group were very pleased with a 6:59, which I never thought I'd say, but it's indicative of how tough the course was.  Jelly and another club mate ably directed us all, which was really appreciated, and made it enjoyable.  It was really nice to start and finish together.

    I unfortunately did take quite a nasty tumble at 7-miles.  I went down hard on my side, and the top of my ribs took a battering against my arm.  At one point I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to carry on to be honest, but fortunately as most of it was walking, it didn't hurt too much to walk.  I always carry paracetamol - but of course on this occasion I didn't!  No one in our group had any, but we came across a load of walkers (they weren't doing the event) and they gave me some which did take the edge of a bit, but it was still painful running on the one section of hard surface.  Not sure what this means for Wednesday's event, let alone a recovery run tomorrow (sorry Shades!), but I'll just see how I get on.  At the moment I expect I'll travel to Wednesday's event and if I have to walk it, I will do.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Forget to say - all that was for £9, for the marathon.  Total bargain.  OK, no T-Shirt or medal, but We got a certificate, which I believe is fine for 100MC purposes, and it was a great day out.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    I second what Big G said, I really enjoyed today and learnt loads about map reading off fellow navigator,(ex army). This was my very first time, have had lots of he,p from daughter with prep.  I would like to do some more self navigation ones and know a few of the ones I want to do you have to be confident at map reading. I also took a tumble but nothing like Big G's I just got a muddy bum. Hope you feel better tomorrow and for Wednesday.  My time is a little different, not worked it out yet as I was short on my watch so ran on for a little bit, which I think helped as just before finish there was a steep hill so think extra relaxed my legs a little before I stopped. I was on 25.85 when everyone went to finish, so not much in it. 

    Shame about your race Shades, best to rest up.  
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well done Big G and Jelly. Take care of those ribs eh Big G?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - the fit of a shoe is always compromised if you put your own insoles in.  I'm assuming you removed the manufacturers insoles first, but they can be quite thin and not make that much of a difference.  

    Jugula - some companies offer scandalous prices for car insurance and you have to shop around.   I go through the performance of getting new quotes every year and usually I change provider every year, this year I didn't my current insurer was the best value.   Same with the electric, new supplier every time my deal expires. My neighbour never changes their electric supplier and pays nearly twice what I do!

    Ian - good for you marshalling as you couldn't run, next best thing to running is helping out.

    Big G - well done on your first LDWA event, glad you enjoyed it and the food too.   I don't think I've ever been to an LDWA where all the baking wasn't home made.  Hope those ribs are OK and just a bit of light bruising.  You're excused a recovery run if you're sore ;) 

    Jelly - well done at guiding those Trotters around, I'm sure they'd have got lost on their own!

    Had a lazy day yesterday, thankfully sore throat has eased and not progressed into a cold.  I'm feeling a bit better today, not 100% but RHR is down to 54 now so hopefully I should be OK soon. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I know you're looking at Valencia marathon, I watched the World Half marathon on Saturday and I'm assuming the finish and the route is part of/same as the marathon and it looks amazing and fast.   Worth a watch on catch up if you have the time as both men's and women's races were good.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, really enjoyed it...and I don't do off-road, and here's why!  Note muddy arm/shoulder from my fall....


    There were 17 Trotters in total and for the majority of these it was their first LDWA event.  I'm glad I suggested it now, as it ended up being great turn out!  I think all but one of them is signed up for the DD.

    Garmin said I did 55000 steps, and then this morning it is telling me my new daily target is 11046.  It appears it doesn't pay to do a marathon if I want to keep my required steps down ;)  

    I've taken Ibuprofen last night and this morning and ribs are okay, but sore to the touch.  It also hurts if I cough, or stretch.  I don't think there's any lasting/serious damage as it's not bruised and it's not absolute agony if I touch it, so hopefully it'll clear up soon.

    I'm just going to rest up today so I'll check out that Half Marathon on catchup.  I am really tempted with the marathon but flight prices are too high at the moment - I've set up an email alert on SkyScanner which will tell me if they drop in price.  If they dip below my £100 guide, I expect I'll sign up :)  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Big G - is that your new trail shoes...can't see for the mud ;)

    Ribs hurt a lot after a fall as no layer of muscle or fat to protect them.

    LDWA events are great fun and good training for time on feet and hills.  If I went back to off road events I would do LDWA events rather than trail marathons.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ha ha, yeah, they're the new ones.  I hosed them off when I got home, and put paper inside them, and now they're drying.  I may need them for Wednesday's event too...  Although they're new, I had no problems with them at all in terms of rubbing or anything, so I was pleased with that.  The reason I fell was because I tripped over a long twig/branch which I hadn't seen, so it wasn't lack of grip or anything like that that caused me to fall.  One second I was running, and then the next I was sprawled out on the floor, which was a bit of a shock.

    In a way I was lucky I fell on a muddy path and not the road as it could have been worse.  I landed on my Garmin too, but it survived with no scratches or anything, where as possibly if I'd fallen like that on the road it would have been toast.

    It's definitely one I'll remember.  In a way, I'm pretty proud of my first LDWA certificate :)  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well I don't think you could have done a better test for your new trail shoes.   But they might not dry out in time for Wednesday, some of mine take 4-5 days and that's in a warm flat.

    Can you let me have your April races please? I think I've got everyone else's.  I know you're doing Taunton and Great Welsh not sure about the rest of the month
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, it's just those two marathons that I've entered so far.  The Easter Weekend I have two 10Ks so no marathons then, and then the London Marathon weekend I'm busy so no events for me then.  There is one on 29th (a White Star Running event), but I won't be entering that one.

    Regarding Wednesday's event, last week they did send out an email saying that they thought road shoes would be okay, but I see more rain is forecast in that area before/during the event.  I would prefer to run in road shoes ideally, and if these trail shoes don't dry my other ones wouldn't be suitable for a marathon anyway, so I may not have a lot of choice!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks re races.   I'll update the list tomorrow.

    I'm sure road shoes will be fine.  As you've found out more falls are caused by tripping rather that slipping, and it's a flat course so slipping is less likely.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Today should have been a rest day but it was (well, still is) glorious out, and as it's scheduled to rain for the next three days, I wasn't about to miss out. My legs felt surprisingly good. Hammy was a little grumpy, which is to be expected, and so was the left calf (just DOMS I think) but beyond that, my legs felt quite light and my "recovery run" ended up being relatively quick (6 miles averaging 10:25). I wasn't pushing - I just think I am coming into form now. Which is good, as I've only two weeks left!
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Steven - Great long run.
    Cal - Nice parkrun PB (that's a big improvement) and long run!
    Shades - Get well soon.
    Big G / Jelly - Well done on your marathons!

    18 miles on Saturday for me, surprised that I averaged 7:48 min/miles as normally would be 8:00+. Then 13 miles on Sunday, both felt good and finished off a 53 mile week. Got a 20 miler next weekend, which will be my first since August last year, that's a long time since I've run 20 miles!!
  • Big_G & Jelly well done on completing the Devonshire Dumpling. That sounds like an interesting event! Hopefully the ribs aren't too sore G.
    Cal - Well done on a new ParkRun PB and enjoy the Taper
    Steve - that was a quick 18 miler!
    Shades - Shame about a DNS at least you sound like your on the mend.
    Ian - hopefully you are on the mend.

    All in all sounds like everything is staying focused whether they can run or not. 

    I'm really pleased with my training last week. Hit 45 miles total and I completed a very steady 23 miler at 9:24min/mile pace Saturday morning. Long run felt great throughout. Legs started to get heavy quite early on at around mile 17, but I managed to push through the discomfort with relative ease. I guess that was because I only had Friday as a rest day. No sign of "the wall" but I could tell my mind was starting to wander on mile 22-23. Glad to start my taper this week!

    Off to Swanage this Easter weekend, so I'll need to try and find somewhere suitable to run my 14 mile Sunday  run.

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - you seem to have taken to recovery runs very well :)  Taper time now. :/ 

    Steve - speedy long run, you're running well.  Aren't you tempted to squeeze a marathon in?   But you do have a half soon don't you?

    OTB - your training has been really good, enjoy your taper.   We don't do 'the wall' on here.  Your blip at 22-23 means your brain needs a bit of sugar.

    Enjoy yourself in Swanage, your Sunday run won't be flat around that area, lovely to run in a different place though.


    My RHR was back down below 50 today which I consider normal for me so I went out for a short run and I feel fine.  Nice mild morning, had to take off my gloves very soon after starting.   Dark again though after changing the clocks but it'll soon be light again, changes so quickly at this time of year.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Great runs there by you Steve, OTB and Cal!

    Shades, good news your RHR is back to normal and you managed a short run.

    I tried a short run this morning, but didn't make it to the end of the street as it was still too sore to run properly, so I didn't see the point of pushing through it.  Ribs are much better, and it's still okay to walk and I'm much more agile in general now.  I'm not really sure what to do tomorrow now though, as I don't really want to DNS another race, so my gut feeling is that I'll travel and make the start line, and just run/walk it as best I can.  There's a 6hr time limit and I can walk 4 miles an hour (presuming the terrain isn't too bad) so I think, with a small amount of running, I can still make the cut off.  And if it gets too bad or it looks like I won't make the cut off, I can just stop as it's a lapped course.  But at least I'll have tried.

    What do you guys think?
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G - If it's a lapped course I don't see any reason not to give it a go if you are feeling OK.
    Shades - Yes, have a half next weekend. I will be cutting back my mileage that week, but not decided if I'm racing or using it as a MP run. I might see if I can find a marathon to do as a training run, instead of running solo instead, but happy to be only racing one marathon this year, along with the ultra.

    6 mile recovery run this morning, nice and easy (9:45 min mile with 124 bpm average HR).
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