Shades Marathon Training

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  • If it changes your gait then you can't really tough it out, unfortunately. I hope the physio does the trick.

    I am still feeling quite run down, or at least, I was when I woke up. Not really ill, but not really right either, which is rather annoying. It was also freezing out so I decided to wait until the sun came out and melted the frost and then I'd see how I felt. I ended up going out at 12.45, which is really late for me (I pretty much had to bully myself out the front door - the longer I leave after waking, the worse my resolve gets) but I got 12 miles done. I'd rather have go a 20 out of the way (as I won't have another chance for three weeks, given the next two Sundays are half marathons) but I'll have to make do. I just hope this whatever it is buggers off.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Really bad news about the knee,hope you can get to the bottom of it.
    Cal-At least you have a week to get over whatever you have before your race.
    8.5 miles today,the roads were a lot clearer today,just a bit of ice hanging around.Felt really tough,legs were laboured and the achilles was sore,originally was planning 12 but cut it short to play safe,hopefully just a bad day.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - it's possible that the problem with your knee could be coming from your back.  Anyway hope you get a firm diagnosis today so you know what it is and how to deal with it.

    Cal - well done for getting out later in the day.   I'm exactly the same the later it gets the less likely I'm to finally get out for a run.   You've already got a good few long runs done so you're well on schedule.

    Ian - don't do any doubles while you're legs are feeling a bit heavy and the achilles troublesome.  Wait until you feel good, I'm sure that'll only be a day or so.


    Lots of rain, very strong winds, got blown around on my run and soaked through.  But I absolutely loved it as it's a mild 10 degrees and feels so much more comfortable to run in that temperature. 6 miles done.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I have a half in 2 weeks that I want a good go at so won't be doing doubles until then,it still gives me 7 weeks until Manchester and I'm in decent shape so should be enough time.
  • Ian - What sort of mileage are you hoping to hit?
    16 cold miles for me on Saturday morning, but felt really tough for the first 4 miles! Then in the afternoon I did 90 minutes on the bike (24 miles), so 40 combined miles for the day.
    5 miles on Sunday, including the last 2 at LT (6:15/6:20), to finish off with 45 running miles for the week.
  • Hello everyone, still no running from me... well I went out for my usual Sunday potter for 5km round the forest just to stop me going completely stir crazy but I'm not even counting that. My foot still hurts and there is no noticeable change. I've indirectly spoken to my doctor (who is an ultra runner himself) who said there's bugger all I can do and it would be a complete waste of time to see a physio. Well he said it a bit more eloquently than that but that was the gist of it.

    My bike is in the garage currently being repaired by OH. Can't wait to get on it and get some decent cardio in.

    That's really annoying about your knee Big G. You have my sympathies.

    Know what you mean about getting your run in early Cal. I've often spent whole days in my kit without managing to get out.

    It's even more annoying as from this week my hours have changed so I am starting a bit later (still working in tandem with the cook but not doing the early morning school group), this means for the first time for ages I actually have the time to go out but can't make the most of it as I can't bloody run  :#:#:#
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I’ve been to the physio and he was very good. I tried to explain the feeling that I thought something wanted to click and it was just mild discomfort rather than acute pain.

    Basically, he managed to provoke a pain response I hadn’t had before (ouch!) so he isolated the problem in a way that I hadn’t been able to on my own. Before I went I was worried it was a tendon issue but he seems to think it’s not and it’s actually a small muscle strain on the inside of the knee, kind of behind the tendon. He did say it’s hard to isolate that particular muscle in terms of getting a stretch but he’s given me some to try. Basically they’re hamstring stretches, but also moving the foot/lower leg about to try and get deeper. Also, massage with a tennis ball, which I’d been doing anyway.

    I’d already explained that I’d turned back after 1.5 miles on one run and then had the issue again 4.5 miles into another run. Without me asking ‘can I still run?’ he said that he thinks I should still keep ticking over, and even if it’s a bit uncomfortable to still try and run through it, but stop it it escalates.  I forgot (ahem) to say about marathons, but basically he thinks that if I’m sensible and do the stretches it should go away.

    He did ask if I did any strength/conditioning and I was honest and said I did very little, so he’s emailed me an article that has some in.

    He said if there’s absolutely no improvement in a month to go back, or to just email him in the meantime. 

    I’m taking it as good news really in that he didn’t think it was anything serious and he didn’t tell me to stop running totally - the opposite in fact. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve-That's another good week for you,must be starting to feel confident now.Im hoping to average mid 50's,I can't really fit much more in 6 days so the only watch can add really is the double so hopefully that will get me in the 50's.
    Mama-hope you get some good news soon,that's dragging on now.
    Big G-Thats a positive physio visit,interesting how sometimes it can depend on who you see,some may have told you to stop as it's the easy option for them.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that's a perfect time to do the doubles, will top up your mileage nicely without the additional tiredness that you could have from extending the distance of your normal runs.

    Steve - I bet it was cold for your long run on Saturday.

    mamafox - well that's great that your hours have changed so you have a bit more morning time but so frustrating that you still can't run pain free.   Can you walk pain free, if you walk as fast as you can that's a good aerobic work out too and stomping around the forest might help your mood while you can't run.   Your doctor is right, no point going to a physio.

    Big G - sounds like a really good physio appointment. Did he give you any idea how you managed to strain that elusive muscle?   Great news that you can still run too.   I suppose if it hurts when you're running you could also slow to a walk and you'll still get a few miles in.

    Ha ha at the strengthening/conditioning homework, he's given you plenty to keep you busy. ;) 

    Lovely stretchy class at Yogalates again.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I was thinking similar about maybe doing a run/walk.  Trouble is it obviously takes a lot longer to do the run, but from what he said he thinks keeping moving would help anyway.

    He asked me if I had tripped or fallen, which I haven't.  He also asked about my shoes, but I'm sure they're fine so I don't think it's related to that.  Apart from those things, he didn't really have a theory as to how it may have happened.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Just received an email from the Running Miles guys, regarding the Dorney Lake run and GFA.  Obviously not an issue for me but basically for the past 3 years they've got UKA permits from TRA, but today they've been told that TRA will no longer give out permits for events that involve more than 20% on tarmac or concrete.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G- maybe choose routes that you can add or cut distance according to whether you have any severe pain.  Now that you've had the all clear to do some running you might find it easier as you know that you're not doing any additional damage.  When I was recovering from a groin injury I ran/walked and it didn't add too much time to training times.

    Re Dorney race permits they can still get a permit through UKA, they'll have to get a course measurement certificate if they haven't already got one. 

    I believe UKA wants to cut TRA permits as I think they are a lot cheaper so they're not making enough profit from them.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Went along to the club tonight,negative split HM pace was the target,6 miles in total but couldn't get to target HM pace,ended up running at 1:30 pace so ok as I think last week is still in my legs a little,even though I don't feel it.9.5 miles in total with there and back so nice miles.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, the Running Miles guys said they can’t get it organised in time so it won’t can’t for GFA on this occasion. 

    Decided to go along to Trotters tonight, as I thought running/chatting with a group may distract me a bit. I joined the 6-mile group and just took it really steady and got around ok in that the discomfort didn’t get any worse during the run. I wouldn’t usually do this but I did take a couple of paracetamol beforehand too so let’s see what it feels like tomorrow AM. 
  • Is it popliteus, Big G? It's a little stability muscle and one of its functions is to unlock the knee, so it could have got jammed up when you were sitting at the snooker.
    Rest day for me, although I did go to hot pilates early as my favourite teacher was doing it (she has sadly left the studio, but was covering for another teacher who's away).
  • Shades- in regards the cold weather yeah as we don't get much warm weather up here we unfortunately have to get used to the cold weather so it doesn't bother me when it is really cold.
    Big G- sounds like a positive physio appointment and good you can still do some form of running.

    Another easy 6 miles for me and no pain at all in my knee. Don't know if this has played some part in causing my pain but I wore my new Asics GT2000 trainers today and no pain however my last couple of runs where I have had pain I wore my Brook Ravenna 9''s which has about 450/500 miles on them as I say don't know if it has anything to do with it.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - must feel good to get back to running with your club again.   Sometimes that pace just isn't there, you've recovered well though from your PB marathon.

    Big G - I can't see that many would be using Dorney Lake for GFA times, the closing date isn't until August and there are loads of marathons to chose from.  I assume they still have a permit for this race.

    That's good that you did a run with the Trotters.  I wouldn't advise ever taking a painkiller before a training run, it's really important that you know what/if there's any pain during the run.  The physio saying that you can run takes away a lot of the trepidation about whether it's right to run or not.

    Cal - I'm sure you're right and we'll have to refer to Big G's injury as the 'snooker injury'.

    steven - often when shoes lose their cushioning it's the knees that notice it first.  I had a pair of Ravennas and liked them a lot but only got about 400 miles out of them before I felt the cushioning had gone so binned them.   I would definitely stick to the GT2000's for now, maybe time to look around for another pair of shoes to replace the Ravennas ;)  

    6 miles today, lovely running weather about 6 degrees, dry no wind and although it was dark the birds were singing their heads off this morning.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Cal, yes that was the muscle he said.  He didn't give me a diagram, but I just googled it and it looks right.  We have actually booked to go to the snooker again as we did enjoy it, but this time I sorted the tickets and got aisle seats!  Can't believe I got an injury from watching snooker!!!   :p 

    Shades, they've not got a permit as they say they haven't got the time make alternative arrangements, but they've got their own commercial public liability insurance.  It apparently still counts for 100MC.  Not ideal, but unless he's changed it this is how Foxy runs his events (gets the course measured and then provides his own insurance) as I had a long message exchange with him about it one time.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Ian - Doubles sounds like the perfect way for you to up the miles to mid 50s. Yeah feeling fitter now, think just getting back to 30-50 mile weeks with easy miles has helped lots.
    Big G - Glad it's nothing too serious and won't stop you running.
    Shades - I think it was around-5c on Saturday!!
    10 miles this morning.
  • It doesn't surprise me, honestly - my hip always feels worse after a rest day when I've been sat in front of the computer for hours.

    10 miles this morning. Quite mild - didn't need a hat or buff and took my gloves off after 4 miles. Should be even warmer for my half at the weekend.
    I have some concerns about the course - it looks like a bowl of spaghetti! I think it's too twisty for a PB. I'll probably just try to stay under 2 hours and use it as a warm up for my other halves.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, I've had issues after a long journey in the past, and sometimes even after not a particularly long journey!  I remember one time I arrived back late in the evening after approx 12 hrs on a coach (I went up and down to London on the coach in a day), and then went out for a run the next morning and had to stop after a couple hundred metres.  That time, I was fine walking around, but running was just aggravating general aches and pains so I had to stop.  I was okay the next day in that case though.  

    Looking back, I did force myself out the door a bit when I was in London that time.  I really didn't enjoy those two short runs and didn't get into a rhythm at all as although not in pain, I felt stiff.  In hindsight, maybe I should have just taken a couple of rest days from running, and done some gentle stretching instead whilst there.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I hope an aisle seat next time does the trick, otherwise you'll have to upgrade to an executive box.
    How are you getting on with your physio homework? ;)

    Re Dorney, yes if a RO has his own public liability insurance for their events then the events are OK with 100MC, unless they fail on some other point which I'm sure they don't.   Bit odd that they've been using TRA permits which provides the adequate race insurance and then having their own race insurance as well.

    I guess you're still planning to run Dorney.   And Humdinger?

    Steve - it must be a lot warmer with you now though.  -5 eek :o 

    Cal - oh this is the new half that you're doing this weekend.   Sub 2 is a good target for your first half of the year.  I hope the twisty course doesn't mean it will be congested.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes I have an entry for Dorney which is on 10th March.  I am in Southampton that weekend (WAY AGM) and decided to enter Dorney on the Sunday as it's an okay drive from Southampton, and it should be fine on a Sunday in terms of traffic.  I don't know, but maybe they sorted their own insurance when they found out about the TRA permit.  This doesn't impact me for 100MC purposes as I do loads of road events, but the Running Miles guys think it'll still count as a road event for 100MC purposes as it's still been officially measured, but if not it'll be counted as a trail event.  It's a bit confusing as I believe Foxy's have been officially measured too and he has his own insurance, but he told me that he chooses to purposefully count his as trail events for 100MC purposes.  As I say, it makes no difference to me as I do enough road events in any case.

    Yes, I have an entry for Humdinger Half, which is two days after this week's Darwin marathon.  I'll just have to see how I get on at the marathon and the injury.  I'd like to do Humdinger still, but I'll have to decide nearer the time.  I don't know what this year's medal is like, but last year's I think is my favourite medal I've had as it's a fluted glass one - it's really nice.  When I get around to displaying my marathon medals, I think I may slip that one in as well as I do like it.  
  • Sorry this is not connected to the thread but I have searched and searched on this forum but cannot find out how to post a new post? Can anyone help?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - sorry, I was confused thinking it was Dorney you were doing this week.   

    I always count my marathons by the surface that it's run on, so I record Dorney as road, as I do Plym Trail.   100MC don't care about that unless a runner is short of the required number of road races for their first 100.  So that would only affect those that never run in what I call a 'proper race', but that would be very few that couldn't come up with the required number of road races.
    Dorney could always permit the race with ARC, as it has a measurement certificate they can then classify it as road.  
    I expect Foxy prefers to classify his races as trail as making the criteria to be classed as a UKA road race can be a lot extra faff and expense.  Foxy used to hold his events with no insurance at all, which is why I would never consider them, since then 100MC don't recognise races with no insurance so he's had to arrange that.  Foxy only got insurance when a member of the public queried if he had PL insurance.

    I display all my medals, irrespective of race distance.

    I understand you can transfer your place for the Humdinger by Thursday lunchtime should you decide not to do it.   

    Marcus - you are a new member to the forum and to cut down on spam you have to have posted something like 10 posts on various threads before you can start your own thread.   We used to be inundated with newbies that would then set up multiple spam threads selling us kitchens in Hull etc .

    If you have a general query on running you can post on here, we might be able to help.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I expect Foxy was initially trying to do things on the cheap then.  In his message to me he said that UKA require a permit & measurement, but 100MC require a measurement & insurance.  I know a year or two ago he stopped getting permits so his courses don't count for GFA, but I suppose very few people used them for GFA anyway - from memory I think he said that he only ever had one person get (or try to get) a GFA.

    Regarding your other message about my homework, I'm just doing the stretches he said at the moment.  Haven't gone into the stretch and conditioning stuff yet!  I'll try and post it here, but the physio sent me an article that was talking about a relatively small amount of S&C a work a week can have a good impact.  Hopefully this link will work.
    https://mailchi.mp/running-physio/13_minutes_of_fame?e=3dd8b3a2ba
  • Shades, I hope so too. They are starting it in waves, though, so hopefully that will help.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I agree, Foxy's races wouldn't be the choice of m(any) for trying for a GFA time.   The main reason a race get a permit is for the insurance and certainly for a road event the police wouldn't allow an event to be held on the roads without PL insurance.

    I just had a quick look at the link, 13 minutes a day would be great but I see the exercises are gym based.   I guess you could find alternatives unless you have a bit of gym equipment hidden in your garage ;)   But if you join Torbay Tri and have access to the leisure centre you'll have gym access too?

    Cal - starting in waves really makes a difference, fingers crossed.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I hadn't realised Humdinger are accepting transfers.  I think I'll try and get rid of my entry then, as realistically I know it's too much at the moment.  

    I've just done 3.5 miles and it was a lot worse than last night's run, and as it was raining I didn't walk the rest of the route I had planned.  I have actually turned all the privacy settings on on my Strava so I can just keep a record for my own notes, without people seeing me walking etc.  I'll still post here about what runs/walks I do though.

    I'm trying to work out the worst case scenario for Darwin marathon.  If I can run for an hour, that will be 6-6.5 miles.  In the absolute worst case scenario if I then walk the rest I think I could still make the 6hr cut off, but of course I hope to be able to run for more than that.  So as I type this, I'm still thinking of making the trip, but I'll play it by ear and see how I feel tomorrow/Thursday.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G- I saw on the FB page that the Humdinger was full and RO said to just email details of transfer and that would be OK.  I know you really like the race but I did wonder how you'd manage the hills with your injury.

    Re your marathon I guess you just have to see how it goes. Even if you have to walk a bit doesn't mean you might not be able to run again later on. 

    You shouldn't have to justify your choice to walk on Strava. In that case maybe you shouldn't be on Strava at all as what other people think is bothering you. That bodes very badly for your future running. If anyone comments on your walking in a negative manner then they are only trying to insult and offend you. The joys of social media!
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