Shades Marathon Training



    Big G - I'm still keeping that weekend free too, I'm hoping no news is good news.

    Khanivore - haven't done that race, I think Big G has done the marathon.  Don't think it's hilly though, might be undulating, but still a good choice if you can't find a hillier one.  

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Khani-I didn't hate hills but just avoided them,but kept cramping and struggling at the end of races so added it in to see if I got benefit and I really did,still not an enjoyable session,but as it's my only hard effort I can bear it.
    I was debating doing Wilmslow half 2 weeks before Manchester,but think the potential cons outweigh the pros?
    I should recover in time but could I cause muscle damage that doesn't repair in time and Manchester is my main target this year,think I'll do 10 miles then the Northern 12 stage relay with the club in after that.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Khani/Shades, last year I did have an entry to Salisbury 54321 marathon but I DNSd as I had picked up a slight niggle at an event (FoD marathon) the week before. The Chairman of our club did it in about 3:30 whereas he’s often 3:15ish, to give an idea of if it’s tough or not. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Trains booked for DD.Ended up getting the train both ways,as it was only about £15 down more than megabus so well worth it for the near 3hr saving,also treated myself to 1st class on the way back as it was only £20 more but will need the best rest possible.Just need to drive to and from Stafford but that's about 75 miles and all motorway so not too bad,better than 5 odd hours to Devon.I do love the intricacies of the British rail system though,I'm sitting in the same seat,but by buying Birmingham-Cheltenham then Cheltenham-NA I saved £15,crazy but always worth a look at splitting.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    A 6 miler today for me. I didn't go out until lunchtime as it was super windy earlier. It was pretty windy when I did go out, but fortunately it was also mild so I was able to run in just a T-shirt. Sore bits are still sore. It'll take a while (4-8 weeks) before the exercises will reactivate my lazy left leg and after that I'll have more exercises to fix the other issues. Until then I will have to keep up with the foam rolling.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Not the best run today,really wanted to do 20 as I've not done many above 15 since GC.Left the run till 4 as it was fierce winds early then 20mph from 4 on.Felt ok running out into the wind and good until 18,then I ran out of energy,maybe it was the wind earlier,much later long run than normal so not enough food and I also went the wrong way adding on 2 miles,got to 20.5,didn't look properly and misjudged a kerb,over I went do 2 nice cuts on the right knee,so sulked and walked home.
    Only positive it was my 2nd fastest 20 and it felt super good until 18 but hate the feeling of a bad long run with no time for another.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ouch, Ian. But well done for getting it done in that wind. That would have made it a lot harder anyway. The fact you felt great until 18 is positive - don't worry about the rest.

    On another note, there's a race a week before my marathon and normally I'd discount it since the main event is 16 miles. However, there's also an 8 mile option, which would be a good distance a week out...though I'd be inclined to race it (I mean, I can do 8 miles easy locally, and not pay, so not a lot of point me not racing it if I do it at all). What are your thoughts? Too close to do a race of that length, or not?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-In terms of recovery I think you'd be ok.What i'd be worried about is if you get a knock,then it could put you out for the race,now that could happen on any run but more likely when running fast.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I'd race it Cal as I think a week is fine - remember how you recovered so well recently after your Half PB?

    Ian, good news you've got your transport sorted for DD.  I know what you mean about wanting to finish on a high point with regards to the long run, but as Cal said it's really positive that you got to 18 feeling good.  It's hard running in that wind so try not to dwell on it.
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    Ian - running out of energy is horrible. Sorry to hear you fell too! Sucks. But getting to 18 miles feeling good is brill!

    4 miles at a faster pace for me today. Enjoyed the run. Have been avoiding the dreaded backache by stretching my back regularly. Seems to be working well! 
    edited March 16
    Ian - great news you're all booked for DD on the trains and a good move treating yourself to first class on return trip.   I didn't realise that that Megabus came here until I saw it at Penn Inn one morning and as I was trying to cut costs I thought it might be a good option for one of my marathon trips, but when I checked up they only do one pick up a week here and that's on a Monday morning so had to shelve that idea.

    Re Wilmslow half, up to you.   You would certainly recover in time but as Manchester is such an important race it's always possible you might aggravate the achilles again and could regret it.   
    I'm sure the conditions are why you ran out of fuel in your long run yesterday, that's the effect of running in very windy conditions.  Hope there's no more damage from your fall than a few cuts.

    Cal - how long do your exercises take every day, are they challenging?  Do you have to try and make any adjustments to your running style now?

    I don't think you should do the 8 mile race, you had a very slow recovery from your last race and I think the worry about recovery would stress you unnecessarily before Vienna.

    Khanivore - look after your back.  Maybe if you have some spare time start doing a Pilates class? 

    Big G - hope your move goes well.

    I've DNS'd my race today, felt a bit poorly yesterday, not a cold but a sore throat and high RHR and very tired.  I got my race kit ready and woke this morning feeling a bit better but RHR still higher than I'd really be happy with racing.   If it was a warm sunny day I might have risked it but it's not.  Bit cold for me in feels like temperature plus I'd have had nearly 4 hours driving to do in that wind, gusts up to 75 km/h too which might be a bit tricky on the M5.  Shame as it's a really nice 20 mile race, with free coffee and cake at the finish.

    Forecast Cloudy Showers Cloudy Cloudy Cloudy Showers Cloudy Cloudy
    Temp (°C) 10° 10° 10° 11° 11° 12° 12° 12°
    Wind (km/h) 44 SW 43 SW 43 SW 44 SW 48 SW 48 SW 46 SW 46 SW

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Shades - you're probably right about the race. It's just a nice opportunity to do a non-standard distance. Not the best timing, though.  That's the one problem with marathons - they take a lot more out of you than even halves, which cuts down the races you can do before and after. Eh well.
    The exercises don't take long to do and are quite quick - drills really.

    Today I went to Foots Cray Meadows parkrun, which is one of the London ones in the loosest sense of the word because it's pretty much countryside out there. I would have had a bugger of a time getting there by public transport so I was grateful I made my new friend with the car. Jogged two miles to Streatham where she picked me up, then on to the parkrun.
    It's a nice, cross-country-style parkrun, all grass/trail but not really muddy. Some small undulations but nothing long or steep. The challenge was the wind, which was very gusty, and the surface, which was quite bumpy. I enjoyed it but my time was modest - 26:59 - even though I was making a good effort.
    However, as it's a very small parkrun (52 people today) I finished in my highest placing, 24th (so yeah, almost halfway down the field, heh). 5th lady too. I was hoping I might crack the top three but unfortunately some club runners from Ealing were on tour there as well. Still, age group 1st again (out of an impressive 3). Heh.

    I treated my friend to breakfast in the farm shop there, and bought some nice apples, forgetting completely that I'd have to jog 2 miles home with them in a bag. At least the bag didn't break.
  • shades sorry to hear of your DNS, sensible thing if not feeling 100%.  Jury service has happened at the right time really, this time last year I was in the thick of it training for Manchester and NDW.  

    Khanivore unless you're doing TP100 or A100 all Centurion events contain lots hills.  I used them as milestones to help break up the race.

    Ian I was considering the 1st class upgrade for DD but decided not to as could potentially be another £20 wasted if I don't run, I'm hoping can upgrade on the day as well if needed.  

    Cal nice to do low key events as well as the big ones, glad the apples made it back okay!

    Westmill parkrun this morning took 1st timers briefing.  Then ran, started off steady and felt comfortable so upped the pace finished 25.41 in 9th place had a turn of pace in the last 50meters to dip someone on the line, felt a bit bad!  Have now ordered my 50th shirt too.

    As for the foot felt comfortable whilst running, very painful to put any pressure on it now so discarded any thoughts of doing xc tomorrow and will consider a very slow run along the river.

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-Good work beating them on the line.
    Shades-I was getting the Megabus to Exeter as seems like there's a few services to there.
    Think I'll give Wilmslow a miss,I'll be gutted if I get a knock that affects me for Manchester and I want to do the last 2 weeks same as I did for GC
    Cal - you will in time start to recover more quickly from races so you can squeeze a few more races in should you wish to.

    Good to know your exercises aren't a chore to do.

    Robert - you seem to be managing your PF fairly well.  Hope it's OK today for a run.   Is Ellie still having trouble with her PF?

    RHR still high today and throat still a bit sore, but better than it was.  But no running today, hope to be able to get out tomorrow :'(
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that, Shades. I had a bit of a scratchy throat on Wednesday (probably why that run didn't go well) but seem to have shaken it off. I hope you feel better soon.
    Rob, glad you got your run done and sorry your foot is sore again. You would probably benefit from visiting my biomechanics lady - she'd be able to pinpoint why it's happening. Not cheap though.

    My achilles was really rather sore after the parkrun yesterday - I guess it's a combination of uneven surfaces and my trail shoes, which have a lower drop than my other trainers. It didn't give me too much grief today, though (a bit of a grumble, but no screaming) so I was able to knock out my last long run without too much trouble. I wasn't really looking at my watch so it may have been a touch fast - 21 miles in 3:31, so averaged 10:04. This was Brockwell route so undulating (195m of climb, according to the Garmin  - not sure why it gives me metres rather than feet when I have it set to miles, but I can live with that as I'm used to it).
    Low back was very achey and has been since the Big Half but now I know I have a raging anterior pelvic tilt, I can't say I'm surprised really.
    Taper time!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well, we’ve moved!!  There was a team of 3 guys and it took them 8hrs to move us. They worked non stop, very quickly and with 2 vans. I’d never have done it on my own, so it was money well spent. I’d estimated that I’d have needed a van for 3 days, but these guys did it in one for what I thought was a very good price (£360 to clear a 3 bed house and a 2 bed flat) - probably the best money I’ve spent on this move! I was totally honest when I told them the situation with the steps etc, but the boss did say that he’d wished that he’d come out and quoted the job as it was bigger/harder that he’d anticipated. They walked up and down a lot of steps!!  Anyway, we’re in - we’re neck deep in boxes, but we’re in.

    The new house is actually fairly spacious but the living room currently doesn’t make it look that way - see pic.

    I’ve done a total of 3 miles running this week, which was just a slow/achey recovery run on Monday. Fingers crossed I’ll be able to get out a bit more next week!

  • Big g congratulations on the move! Hope it all feels worthwhile and you’re happy there! £360 sounds a bargain! Defo money well spent there!

    no run today foot was extremely sore but the pain seems to be subsiding now! will get this weeks half out the way and then start considering options available! 
    Cal - maybe stick with your road shoes for parkrun at least until after your marathon, so as not to give that achilles a reason to be sore.

    I have anterior pelvic tilt too and have had it since I used to do lots of horse riding in my teens.  I don't think I could alter it now.

    Big G - that was a bargain price for the removal costs.   I guess those guys don't need to go to any gym to get fit, must be an exhausting job.
    Love the photo, you look calm and oblivious to the fact that some of the furniture is upside down ;) 

    Robert - maybe it's when you run a bit faster, such as your sprint finish that aggravates your foot more.

    Sore throat has almost gone, I feel well today though RHR still raised.   But I was getting stir crazy so did a gentle run which was most enjoyable as a nice morning here, no wind which was a pleasant change after the last week.   I have cancelled Yogalates though as some folk turn up with a cold :#  and I know my higher RHR makes me a little more vulnerable to picking up viruses.  Hopefully should be OK for Pilates tomorrow.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Saturday was 90 minutes on the bike, then a 30 minute drive over to Cannon Hill parkrun for a recovery run (28 mins) and to meet up with our Endure 24 team mates. 15 miles on Sunday.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Interesting, Shades - I used to ride too. I wonder if that's the reason?
    Rest day today - had a good sports massage and feel a lot better. I had some very nasty bits (not surprisingly) but my masseur Peter did a good job of untying the knots.
    Stretched my legs on the common after and ended up talking to a fellow who was stretching after a run and encouraged him to try parkrun. He gave me a big sweaty hug afterwards!
    edited March 18
    Steve - are you doing Endure 24 again this year?

    Cal - I think I probably had a tendency to a pelvic tilt anyway and 5 years of horse riding daily I'm sure has exaggerated it.   My Pilates instructor at times has tried to correct me but she says I have a natural arch in my back, (as she does), so not just posture error and makes it harder for me to stand text book style.
    If you can think back to when you used to ride it's instinctive if you want to sit deep, sitting trot & cantering.
    But I'm not aware that it's causing me any problems, I don't get back pain and although I get my fair share of injuries I don't think they are due to my posture, I don't get recurring injuries, always seems to be yet another one I haven't had before.

    Sweaty hug... :#  friendly folk runners :D
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Young Trotter did well at Reading Half yesterday. He started in the elite pen and did 1:10:18. He was aiming for sub-1:10 but he’s obviously delighted with his time, after his PB the other week where he was running on his own. This is another 1min+ off his PB. 
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G - That's a superb time by the young Trotter! He will be sub 1:10 soon enough.
    Shades - Yes, going back again, but with no plans really on what I'll do other than run a few laps for fun.
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    BigG - gratz on the move! That's a bargain price. I moved us myself with a mate when we moved 10 years ago. NEVER again! :)

    Shades - glad to hear the sore throat is going :)

    Today I did my long run (unemployment gives you a great deal of flexibility) and I tested gels by eating one every 4 miles. Happy to report that I felt no sickness. I did have to have a little sit down 19.5 miles in to the run and then again a mile later which I'm not happy about :( It was a 22 mile run. It's 100% a mental strength issue and I hope to improve on it as the year progresses :) Otherwise, good run that I am happy with. 

    I listen to fiction audiobooks when I do my long runs. Podcasts bore me after an hour or two and music makes the time pass very slowly. It's going to be weird doing Paris without a good audiobook to accompany me.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-sorry you missed your race,hopefully all good for your next one.
    Big G-Thats a  brilliant price,when you think how much you spend on a move it's really nothing to make sure the big day goes well.
    Easy 5miles with the wife yesterday,we did 5 again together then I did another 5k on my own ,original plan was MP,but first one was too slow so turned it into a progression,went from 4.44/km to 4.13/km so quite happy with it.A lot nicer running in warmth than the last few weeks at home.
    Big G - that's great news about YT, I know he was so disappointed last year when the same race was cancelled due to snow.  A very good PB from him too as I expect conditions weren't perfect on Sunday.

    Steve - I expect your few laps will be another ultra distance for you ;) 

    Khanivore - well done on your long run.  Don't be hard on yourself about stopping for a little while in the latter stages of your long run, it won't have any reflection on how you run on race day as the spirit of the occasion  will carry you along.
    You don't want music or audio book on race day, you want to engage with the other runners not be a zombie.   I would suggest that you don't train with headphones now and then, it isolates you from the world around you.
    While you have the time have you considered joining a local running club?   You could then have company for long runs as well as other training runs which can be enjoyable.

    Ian - The warmer conditions certainly makes the training much more enjoyable and running in a different place too, hope you're enjoying your holiday.

    6 miles for me today, RHR coming down still slightly raised.   Lovely morning and this time coming home on the back road I could actually see clearly, last week I was running in the near dark and only able to make out the road.   Birds were almost deafening with their singing, so lovely to hear. :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, he was saying that at mile 7 he was fairly easily on for sub-1:10 but miles 8-10 was a strong (mainly head) wind and from his splits he lost around a minute there. He’s very pleased though.  It looks like he did 2x10-mile easy runs the day after the race so it seems he’s straight back into the easy mileage in the run up to London.

    Ian, enjoy the running in the warmer conditions!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Shades, glad you're getting out again. It certainly is light early now, although with the clocks changing soon, we'll lose that for a little bit.
    Khani, glad the gels are working for you. I wouldn't worry too much about taking little breaks. 22 miles is a long way.

    6 miles this morning, easy/recovery (I did pick up a bit of speed going down a hill on mile 5 so dialled it back as soon as I noticed). Achilles was grumpy very early in the run but settled. I'm going to bump up the calf work for the next week or so.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Khani - 22 miles is a great long run! Good training for the ultra too, as you'll want to walk during the 50 miles, so good for pacing.
    Shades - We will see about Endure mileage! :D
    Easy 10 miles this morning, really slowed down pace at the moment, so keeping HR nice and low.
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