Shades Marathon Training

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  • Great job Shades and Honk.
    Just checked too - they should be pleased enough with that in those conditions (I've been doing my club's results - just as wet there as here, apparently!)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    We just had showers and that was mostly light fine rain, with strong winds.   Bit of surface water though in places, my shoes are wet but didn't notice until I changed them post race.   Thankfully no rain in the last few miles so I was dry at the finish.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Good run today,well done.
    So Berlin marathon my first major,I had a brilliant weekend and really enjoyed the whole experience.
    Expo was fine and I spent €185  :)
    Nice early breakfast today with a coach arranged to the start area,baggage area was well organised with no queues,found some toilets that had small queue so no issues before the start.My pen was 3-3:15 but I was at the very back,as we shuffled towards the start the 3:30 Pacers walked past me so I wasnt sure how the start would be,after 3 mins we got going,as suspected I started slowly due to the amount of people and my position,target was sub 3:10 to get that out the way but a stretch target was 3:08.
    1st 2 miles and I was 30 secs behind target but knew not to panic and try and get it back slowly,took to mile 13 but that was the best way to do it.Got to halfway in 1:34:51 so just under target but feeling really good,decided to keep the pace the same and not push it,started overtaking lots of people now as I was keeping pace and they were slowing.Mile 20 and still good,do I speed up or steady? Still kept it steady as by now I was under target and heading towards 3:09 got to mile 24 and made my only mistake by speeding up,felt good but at 41k I got my only bit of cramp,hurt but I wasnt stopping with less than a mile left,took it really steady now though to nurse it home and a bit of show boating,clapping the crowd all the way down the home straight and I finished in 3:09:23 a negative split.
    Love my 5k splits 22:49,22:29, 22:14, 22:24,22:24,22:11,22:18,22:42.
    It's the most controlled I've ever ran,even planned to be running 26.5 as that's what it always comes out as,lots of weaving especially in the 2nd half,hope we get the halfway position as I wouldnt be surprised if I overtook 1000.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Forgot to add the rain was pretty bad in the 2nd half,lots of standing water and running in puddles which wouldn't have helped,not that it stopped bekele  :open_mouth:
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I’ve read everyone’s posts but I’ll reply properly in the next day or two.

    Well, that’s Berlin done!  In summary, loved it!!

    Got up early and hotel was getting breakfast ready so I was able to have coffee etc, which was very welcome. Left hotel around 7:30 and got to the start in plenty of time although queues for loos were horrendous. My start time was 9:25 (they start in waves) and I was through in something like 15secs. In the start pen I decided to give it a go for a PB attempt, knowing that this is amongst the fastest courses in the world - if I blew up, so be it. So I got into pace more or less straight away and everything seemed ok - shoulder was behaving and after the first mile, achilles felt manageable. Had no issue with the knee at all, all race.

    OH saw me 6 times (great effort by her!!) and first was at 2.5k, and she got a decent pic. The race was still dry at this point (I felt sorry for those who started in the 10:10 wave as they would have been wetter for longer) but after about an hour or so it started raining and basically got progressively worse.  Got a proper soaking but really it was good running conditions, with not much wind and it was cool.

    I got to half way in about 1:41:30 and at this stage was still hopeful for a PB if I could do a negative split (PB is 3:19) so I pushed on as best as I could. 

    Of course it was busy, but in the main I was able to run freely which was good. The cups for drinks were really annoying, but I know that’s the way big races are going. The last station has reusable cups so I took a couple of those and stuffed them in my bag.

    With about 10k to go I knew a PB was out but I knew barring a catastrophe that sub-3:30 was on so I kind of settled into that, and not pushing too hard and trying to take it all in. OH was just before Brandenburger Tor and got a pic of me, which I did stop and pose for, with my back to the monument.

    As I went under that and within view of the finish I couldn’t help but think of the times I’ve seen this race on TV, and here I was running it. Amazing feeling!

    I crossed the line in an official time of 3:27:03, and I’m delighted with that really. Quite a bit quicker than when I did Rotterdam earlier in the year, and what with the injuries I’ve had I’m genuinely pleased. 

    All niggles were fine, although with about 7k to go I had a really strange sensation down my arm with the dodgy shoulder - almost like a dead arm. Not painful, just odd.

    Comparing it to London, I actually think I prefer this. The start wave system worked brilliantly for me, and also I saw that first time marathoners automatically go in the last pen. I think this is a good idea as it means that people can’t be overly optimistic with their hoped for finish time. Certainly everyone around me was running at my sort of pace, which was brilliant.

    So, it’s done. Here’s me at 2.5k. Afterwards it was a quick tube back to the hotel (I was back within the hour of crossing the line). Then we went back out to see a couple of sights and get a pic in front of monument with my shirt and medal. 


  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - fabulous running and that's your GFA time achieved isn't it   :)

    Superb splits, you really did run a well controlled race.

    Hope the foot/ achilles is OK.

    I'm so pleased for you.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Well done mate.
    Shades-It is but probably wont be enough,I'm actually thinking with a good training block I can comfortably beat that at barca,just need to be consistent.
    The achilles ached a bit in the race but nothing to stop me,only problem since we sat down to eat is the outside of my knee is playing up again,same place as last time so need to monitor that.
  • H0NKH0NK ✭✭✭
    Thoroughly enjoyed my return to marathon running despite the wind and rain.
    Day started with a power cut and there were two of us trying to get ready by the light from our mobile phones, cold coffee and cold porridge was not what I had planned but luckily it had been pre cooked last night. 
    Got to registration early on the basis that at least they would have some light there.
    Good to meet a fellow club runner who was doing the half just before and during the race, We were both a long way from home.
    I set out with the 4 hr 30 pacer on the basis that I would of been disappointed with less but having no recent race times to check if that was viable, my nephew running his first Marathon set off at same pace but dropped off around 12 to 13 miles in.

    By 15 miles the pace group was down to just 3 of us plus the pacer who stayed together till near the end when I decided to up the pace for the last mile. I finished in 4:27:05 and was happy with that. Enjoyed a free glass of Prosecco at the finish then walked out to see if I could spot my nephew nearing the finish, spotted Shades at this point then my nephew who had walked sections but finished strong.

    Looking forward to downloading my run, be surprised if not a good negative split.

    Good to meet you properly back at the finish Shades.
    I reckon I will wait for my rejection letter for London then get signed up for Milton Keynes as it's a nice local one for me, may also look into off road marathons as always used to enjoy these.
  • Woooo! Fab results from the Shadies today!

    Well done on getting under 5hrs Shades (In spite of not focusing on running training at the moment) How did you feel re the non carb loading.. did it make any difference?

    Big G - Lovely photos and a great result from you, especially after your injury issues. Sounds as if you really enjoyed it. Impressive achievement from your OH as well..six times.. she must have been moving some too!

    Ian - Well done you. A perfectly run race, very controlled and glad to see that the pesky cramps didn't get the better of you too. That jacket is going to be a lovely souvenir of a great race.

    Good to hear Honk had a good race too (Thanks to those skimpy shorts no doubt)

    Well done on your long run Cal. Don't know how you manage to get progressively faster. Bet you're glad that's done and dusted.

    First long run this year for me. Did my 31k route at snail pace.. but a consistant snail pace at least and wasn't actually dying at the end. Last time I did this run I was over 20 minutes faster mind you. That was a year ago and before I was struck down with the dreaded PF however. Was interesting to run this route and look at all the changes that have happened in the last year. I also love running the same routes through all the different seasons and watching the changes in the nature etc too.

    On another note disaster has struck. I've had a phonecall informing me that the school cook has had another meltdown and I am replacing her from tomorrow  :#:#:#


  • xpost Honk.. Fab result, well done you  :)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Honk - lovely to meet you and congratulations again on your great run today.

    Lovely race report and so glad that today's race has resurrected your desire to run marathons again.  MK is on the Sunday next year due to change in that BH in 2020.  I was hoping they'd move it to the Friday which is the BH but no luck.

    Xpost Big G - that's a great run by you today.  That must be your 3rd fastest time?  Which after the year you've had with your injury is a very good recovery.
    I agree Berlin is way better than London, I suppose as Berlin is really for the runners not the charity race that London is.

    Super photos, that's a really nice shirt.

    Ian - good news on the achilles especially after the worry and pain you had this week.

    Yes, Barcelona is a fast race, don't know if it's a bit crowded or not, but a good PB course

    If you recover in time and you're feeling good, Frankfurt will give you a clear run without such a congested course.

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Mamafox - I felt much better today.   I did let my carbs go up to 50% yesterday, usually have 40% or just over, but stayed within my calorie allowance.

    The main difference today was that I had scrambled eggs for breakfast, normally on race morning I have mainly carbs.   When I got to the race I had a coffee and felt hungry so had 2 pieces of banana cake.  During the race I ran to HR which in the wind I think helped me not to use too much energy fighting the wind.   I hardly took anything on board during the race, didn't feel I needed it.  I had a couple of jelly babies, a few dried apricots and chocolate raisins, a small piece of chocolate brownie and a couple of crisps.  And a couple of pieces of biltong in the last few miles.  I slowed in the 2nd half but from 19 miles overtook quite a few runners that were slowing more than me.

    I never got to see Honk's shorts, he'd covered up by the time I saw him.  ;)

    Well done on your long run today too, since you replaced your HRM your training is really improving very quickly.  Just at the right time too for your marathons in November.

    Oh no, back to the cooking, but this time you won't be so stressed. You did like some aspects of the job didn't you?
  • I liked the extra salary Shades.. that’s it!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, great long run there.  Well done. Same to you too MF, although it seems commiserations are in order about the cook’s job!

    Ian, very well done to you. That is fantastic - chuffed for you. You deserve it and to think you can go quicker again is brilliant. When I did Barca it was a clear run out. I blew up a bit and did get swamped by the passing pacer bus, but other than that I was fine. My Garmin measured long though, and I finished in 3:31 partly because of that. It’s totally my own fault, but that still annoys me when I think of it and taught me to not rely on the watch 100%. It’s a great race - one of my faves still. 

    Would you recommend going with a tour company then? I think Shades did New York with a tour company and loved it, so was wondering how you found it all?

    Honk, well done to you. Sounds like you enjoyed it out there today. I did MK last year. It was really hot when I did it, but I really enjoyed it. 

    Shades, well done to you too, that’s a great time as you’re not doing the long miles at the moment. Yes, that’s my 3rd fastest time. To say I ‘cruised in’ would be wrong but I knew sub-3:30 was fine, so I did purposefully slow to take it all in. Probably cost me a minute or two but in the circumstances I’m fine with that. Sub-3:30 is a decent time for me so I’m happy to be back under that again, for the first time since last November!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Honk-Well done,good to see you're lining your next one up.
    Mama-Good news on the run,not so on the cooking,hope it goes ok.
    Cal-Another good long run there.
    Big G-I only bought my place off them so cant really say,my hotel was through Berlin's and that worked well.
    Jonny Mellor finished 12th today in 2:12:29,think he was after 2:11:30 for olympic qualifier though,seemed to lose over a minute in the last 3 miles.
    Back home and am still buzzing,I loved the whole day,went for a few drinks and something to eat with a club mate after.
    Big G-Ive learnt to check peoples measurements on strava before the race then adjust my pace,but today it said I ran 26.37 which is one of the least so I must have done a good job keeping to the line.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I forgot you only bought the place. Sounds like the hotel was really good though, with dropping you off etc. Did you make your own way back after?

    I opted for the poncho option, so didn’t drop off a bag. Poncho is actually quite good, although I was a bit worried initially when I saw the wet forecast before the race. But it worked well and I’d do that again, rather than dropping a bag off. That’s the reason I was prepared with my own stuff to keep dry before the race.

    Have you got the Strava video/report to work yet?  Mine keeps saying ‘too many requests’.

    One other thing I forgot to mention, with me getting sub-3:30 that’s a good qualifying time for Two Oceans for me, if I decide to do it. They’ve got a wave system like Berlin, and there’s a sub-3:30 wave, and Berlin is a qualifying race for Two Oceans. It may be hot there so an earlier start (event if it’s only a few mins) is better. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I can’t do a recovery run today, but I think I’d benefit from one!  Properly hobbling down stairs!

    I see some on Facebook are saying it was badly organised. Strange as I thought it all went well. Toilets were a bit of a nightmare and the cups weren’t great, but other than that I thought it was good. Many are saying it was too crowded but generally I found it ok.

    Should have said about the poncho. In the mag, they call it a ‘multi-faceted cape’, which made me chuckle, with visions of Superman :)

    Didn’t sleep great but just about to have breakfast, and then a final day of looking around before flying back late afternoon. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    I thought it was good,I was lucky with the toilets,by my bag drop there was a massive queue,prob 100+ in it,but next to that,out of view,there was about 10 other rows with only about 8 queuing so I stayed in that section.I struggled to get going but was fine after 2 miles,the water stations were my only issue,people literally stopping right in front,I had to push people at a few,not purposely but I ran into the back of them.
    After the race I got the train back to hotel,had a shower got changed,then went to meet my mate,then a train to the airport.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    mamafox - well the extra money is a bonus, but even the joy of that can wear off.   You'll have to find out soon if she's coming back this time.

    Honk - great photos and the famous shorts. :o   Hope the legs are OK today.  I expect your nephew will be sore, I saw you all walking across the car park afterwards and he looked in some discomfort then, despite his massage, the pain of a first marathon.

    Big G - you will always pay more when with a tour company but for many the extra cost is worth it.   I would do that again if I was going to NY as we had a dedicated coach to the start and again collected from Central Park post race to take us back to our hotel.  We had our own rep and everything was sorted for us, airport transfers, trip to Expo etc etc.   EW uses Running Crazy, or did for Valencia, I guess he was making a dedicated attempt at sub 3 and didn't want to have to faff around checking logistics.

    There will always be complaints.   Yes, of course it will be crowded Berlin is one of the biggest marathons in the world, so expect long toilet queues.  Complaints usually come from those that didn't do what they hoped they might, plus the poor weather, which is hardly the organisers fault.   I wouldn't do Berlin again, as it's too crowded a race for me. but I will be going back to Frankfurt next year.   I couldn't fault the organisation at Berlin and I thought the wave starts were executed well.  Lovely city too.

    How come you're not doing your recovery run today?   You might regret that decision ;)   Just wait until you go down the steps from the plane later today :D 

    That's great news about now having a good Two Oceans qualifying time.

    Ian - that's tough for Jonny Mellor missing his qualifying time by a minute.  He must have had a painful last 3 miles, mentally and physically.

    Well I've done my 5 mile recovery run o:)   Legs are a little more tired than last week but I don't think that was due to running faster than last week, more likely the running against the wind does take more out of you although I did stick to HR.   Incidentally my Garmin behaved impeccably yesterday, recording 26.4 which is what it usually does for a marathon.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I felt I needed a lie in and I need to check out so didn’t have time for a run!  I’ll be doing a fair bit of walking today again, so that’s something I suppose. Yes, I’d really consider a tour company for something like New York. I wasn’t lucky to get a ballot place for Berlin. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - the overcrowding particularly at drink stations in big marathons is usually caused by inconsiderate runners stopping and crossing not by the race organisers.   It's the same at London and other big races.  

    Actually  that can happen in small races too when novice and thoughtless runners impede others.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes it was definitely the runners and not the organisers,the tables were plenty long enough,it was idiots just stopping dead,and it's not like we were running slow to easily avoid them.
    I knew the water stations,except 1 were on the right,and the course mainly had right turns so I stuck to the right side for most of the race,which helped.
  • Honk - Congrats, great race!
    Shades - Good result considering the lack of long runs and the weather!
    Big G - Great run!
    Ian - Superb pacing!!
    MF - Nice long run there!
    Cal - Nice long run/parkrun.
    11 miles for me Saturday then 3 miles on Sunday. All easy pace. Then did 20 minutes on the bike and some strength work for the OH's PT course!!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Tried a recovery but my knee didn't feel right so called it off,just need to get through the next 5 weeks then can take it easy for a bit.
  • H0NKH0NK ✭✭✭
    Not going to attempt a recovery run today but felt better after a walk this morning, mainly travelling back home today.
    Still on a high after yesterday's marathon was great to get the pacing right and be overtaking people all the way rather than going off too fast and slowing towards the finish.
    I joined this thread because of the mention of 4 days a week training plan, I don't believe many of you still just run 4 days but it works for me, I think my body needs the extra rest now I'm a bit older.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - of course you now have your own personal trainer, hope she's kind to you.  :)

    Ian - hopefully that knee pain will clear up quickly.

    Honk - you're right to run the number of times a week that works best for you and fits into the rest of your life too.

    We're great fans of recovery runs on this thread it speeds up recovery and lessens the dreaded DOMS too, but they're not for everyone.  They shorten my recovery from a marathon a lot.
  • Shades - This is for her assessment, but I might keep doing maybe one session a week if I can see the benefits. I know it's good for me, so need to make time to include it! Just hoping I feel that way when I increase my miles again!
    Honk - Yeah, I don't run 4 days a week anymore, but I still only run the number of days that works for me.
  • Absolutely brilliant job, everyone! I am really happy for you all.
    A rest day for me today - done little other than wait for a new pair of shoes to be delivered (just more Epic Reacts - my newest pair has quite a lot of miles on them already (given I've just had my second 200+ mile month in a row) so I thought I'd need a fresh pair for Yorkshire in case the Vaporflys don't pan out. (They'll be tested at Kingston).
    In other news, my club has a deal with Tooting and Battersea tracks, which both have small gyms attached, enabling club members to get a membership to both sites for £21 a month. Bargain! So I've just signed up.
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