Shades Marathon Training

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  • Bolton is a no for me as well. It would be fairly handy from my mate's in Manchester but collecting the number the day before would be a massive ball ache. Not so bad if I was staying in Bolton, but asking my mate to drive me there twice in two days would be a bit much. Plus it's rather hilly, which is no good for me while I'm PB-hunting.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - yes, Farah made a fool of himself over that hotel incident during his VLM interview, while Kipchoge sat quietly somewhat bemused.

    That's really bad luck about GC, but you took a small risk booking up before.   Will you transfer your flights to another race now?


    Jelly - well done at Burton Bradstock, I DNS'd as I had a sore throat and high RHR.   It's a lovely route, I've done it twice before, although I don't plan to do it again as it's gone cupless and reduced the number the drink stations, he can do that as he doesn't have an ARC or UKA permit, but has his own insurance.

    Have you done the Grizzly before?


    Cal - I might contact Bolton after their first marathon and raise those issues with them.  However, you shouldn't let a more undulating route put you off, you'd have done your Spring PB attempts by then and hilly races will make you even stronger.

    The race number collection the day before is a real nuisance, thankfully some races are now giving the option of posting out numbers, I don't mind paying a small fee for that if it makes my travel logistics a lot easier.


    6 miles today, mild and very foggy.   RHR still a bit high but not unexpected, I've noticed it's higher when I've done a tough session in the gym the day before, particularly when it's a 'legs' day.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly, great to read a rough plan is coming together to help with the motivation.

    Ian, not good about Mo.  I know what you mean about that element of doubt there with some of these impressive performances.  Did you see Hassan in Doha?  Won the 1500 and 10000m, but her association with Salazer has to put a doubt in the mind.  She was very keen (and I have to say, convincing) to say she's clean, but that doubt is there for me.  It's a real shame.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/49948731

    Shades, I didn't know that about some of the Bulgarian fans, but obviously saw the news last night about last night's game  Not good :(  

    Travel home went exactly to plan, which was great!  Got home, downed a coffee, and then was out the door for committee meeting that went on for 3 hours!  Tired this morning.

    I'm not sure whether to run today or not.  As last week, I feel that I could.  Not sure yet.  Going to try and get a physio appointment and do some research today.  I have a Trigger Point Therapy book which is often really good at helping with things like this so I'll have a look at that too.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-We were taking a risk but I emailed them in June and they said it was going ahead do then booked.We will just take a few days in the sun instead.
    Big G-We don't know which of these athletes are genuine superstars and who are cheats,it's a sad way to look at elite athletics but unfortunately too many have been and will continue to be banned.
  • Glad you made it back OK, Big G.
    Sorry about GC, Ian, but at least you'll have a little break out of it.

    6 miles (well, 10K really...I wanted to pick up my washing and I got to the 6 mile point a little further from the launderette than I wanted). Felt OK but left hammy is having a niggle at the moment. Achilles is the best its felt in ages so perhaps hammy thinks it's its time to grab the spotlight. Attention seeking bastard.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - on the early evening BBC news they actually showed some footage of the marathon at Sofia, the interest being that there are other things to do when going to watch England play football.   They interviewed a couple that had gone for the football and ran the marathon too.
    I know nothing about football but I had seen a headline somewhere a few days ago about expected abuse/trouble from Bulgarian fans.

    You must be tired, that's a pretty long committee meeting at the end of a day travelling.

    It probably hasn't helped your hip all that sitting around, driving, plane, meeting etc.


    Ian - well you can have a bit of a holiday and get some serious warm weather training in too when you're there as you said the conditions there suited you.


    Run done, Pilates done...lovely class today, gym done, aircon is working thankfully today.   :)
  • LoueyLouey ✭✭✭
    Hello! I can't tell you the number of times I have started a post and not managed to finish it, so I'm determined to post this time, even if it's not very long...

    I've been lurking from time to time but life has been manic so I know I have missed lots but I've seen some great running from those I follow on Strava.

    BigG – those are some splits for Sofia! I can't believe you walked part of it and still got a sub4! Hope the hip sorts itself out soon.

    Shades – glad you are on the mend! Did I see over the summer that you went on a diet?? I remember being surprised as I always thought you were a very healthy eater. 

    Cal – love the pics you posted – I'm not sure I've ever seen a pic of you before. You look as though you are having a ball. You have really sped up over the past year or so – I'm looking forward to seeing how you do at York on Sunday. It is a lovely marathon and well supported for the most part. It was where I got my sub-4hrs so I have my fingers crossed that you will too.

    Jelly – I'm guessing Burton Bradstock is hilly?? And if you want to do DD then I supposed you have to embrace the hills (at least a little bit). 

    Ian – how annoying about GC! At least you can make a holiday out of it. Very belated congratulations on your PB in Berlin. 

    Waves to all the other Shadies.

    So, I'm running Abingdon on Sunday. Training has gone reasonably well although I feel like I've slowed down over the past year or so which is a little depressing if I'm honest. I'm blaming it on the menopause (although I hadn't realised I was actually old enough to go through it!) I did however manage to run a sub 25 min 5k at parkrun at the weekend, and that was the 5th consecutive day I had run, so with more rest I could definitely go a bit quicker.  I'm aiming for a sub 4 on Sunday but will see on the day how I feel. I would love to get a GFA but that is increasingly difficult as they keep lowering the time.

    I missed the end of the WR attempt on Saturday as at parkrun but saw some of the earlier part of it. Pretty incredible stats. I wasn't surprised Kosgei broke the WR on Sunday as I'd heard some discussion (possibly on marathon talk) that she was in great form. It is such a shame though that we can't take these results at face value any more. 

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, everything is a bit creaky today after the drive back etc.  Called NHS Physio first thing, but they're full so need to call back tomorrow AM.

    Bad news about GC, Ian.  Really frustrating.  Sorry if you've mentioned it already, but did they give a reason for it not running?

    Louey, good to hear from you.  Best of luck on the weekend, too.

    As for me, I watched the Kipchoge effort today.  Obviously I knew the result but I still enjoyed watching it.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-No,no reason given,it's more annoying that when I emailed they said yes all is fine,when nothing was up a month or so ago I was thinking the marathon was maybe off,but they might put on a short race but doesn't look like it.
    Louey-Good luck,hope it goes well.
    Cal-Anywhere nearer deciding on a target?
    14 today,last decent length run before Frankfurt and first double figures since Berlin,couple of big hills near the end helped keep me honest.
  • Louey, thanks. I've gone through it and honestly it's a big relief not to have to deal with Aunt Flo any more. I had one bad year when I was still perimenopausal - had a good couple of halves and a good marathon early in the year but then my performance went down the crapper during the summer and I spent most of that Autumn out with an angry TFL (that was the one I had to get cortisone for). Since then, progress has been grand, barring a few niggling tendon problems.
    Good luck at Abingdon. I must say that marathon does not appeal to me, but I did spend three miserable years in that part of Oxfordshire during the early 90s and have no desire to go back there.

    Ian, I think (providing that I feel good on Sunday) that I will attempt sub-4 pace and see how far that takes me. If I slow down after 18-20 miles I should still be able to hang on for a PB.
    When's Frankfurt?
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    First time on Grizzly but has been a goal of mine for a while. First time entering, always missed ballot for some reason. Agree with not doing Burton B again, there were only 2 water stops they were well stocked but could of done with another and wasn’t positioned well so in affect only one stop for half as it was on entrance to the finish.  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Louey - lovely to hear from you.   Good luck for Sunday at Abingdon, I'm expecting your usual performance of perfect splits :) 

    Yes, I did say a while ago that I was going to go on a diet and lose 10 pounds, I am a fairly healthy eater but just want to get a bit leaner to give me a better chance of making the DD cut off.   However, since then I've started a 6 month plan to lose 5kg of fat and gain some muscle, am doing this through my gym with body fat analysis etc.   And the instructor has indeed put me on a diet but not a weight loss diet but to increase my protein intake, I have a fairly generous calorie allowance and I'm not hungry, but it's not easy keeping the protein level to what I should be eating but I am getting better at it.

    Jelly - I think you'll love the Grizzly.   I've not done it but it has so many devoted fans.  Really nice folk that organise it, of course they're all barking mad ;) 

    I thought at Burton he was going to have a vehicle going around the course with additional supplies of water etc.   But I can't be bothered with having to take my own cup/bottle so won't bother again, shame as it's a lovely route.


    Circuits done, gym session done, legs today.  
  • Ooh it's all getting quite exciting now isn't it?
    7 miles today with three at sub-4 pace (miles 4-6). Of course, having a watch that is not too reliable at predicting pace made it a little hard to judge, so the miles were 8:52/8:58/9:02. Not sure I could maintain that for four hours, but race pace always feels a lot easier on race day.

    I ordered some arm sleeves from Decathlon which arrived today - I decided the club vest (white/blue/green) over a long sleeved hi-vis yellow top was not a great look. They were pretty cheap. Oh and I'm leaning toward the Vaporflys for York. They worked out well for Kingston - hopefully my feet won't get too sore on Sunday.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly/Shame, shame about Burton Bradstock.  I did it once and quite enjoyed it and being local it's a good option, but I need more water stations than that so I can't see me doing it again.

    Exciting indeed, Cal!  Do you have a course map/elevation profile?  If not, presuming it's the course same as last year, I can share mine if you want.

    As for me, I just felt that doing no running wasn't a good idea today.  I felt I was stiffening up more than necessary and just felt that an easy run would be helpful, so I went out for 4-miles at a very easy pace.  Hip was okay, but the pain seems to have moved to the front of the thigh.  It was generally okay to run though.  I think at Sofia, once I got going I was hoping for a decent time, so I wonder if the quicker pace caused the hip issue to flare up more than it would have done if I'd taken it easier from the start.  I'll have to see how I am on Sunday, but I think if I may just take it easier from the start and see what happens later in the race.  I'm not overly bothered about a time really, but I'd like to be able to run a bit more in the week if I can.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that's pretty good pacing that you did today despite your watch not being able to give you pace per mile.  Could using average pace for the session help you in your marathon?

    I hope the forecast is still good for Sunday.

    Are you travelling up Friday or Saturday?

    Big G - when I had my groin strain the pain would come on after about 3 miles, not unbearable but constant.   If I continued the pain would gradually spread down into my quad which was quite sore.  Your injury sounds similar to mine.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, what stretches did you get given? I’m struggling to get a timely physio appointment at the moment. I think initially it could be hip flexors so I’ve been stretching those, and also massage in that area with a tennis ball (trigger point therapy book mentions to do that). The quad only came on today, and I tend to stretch those gently after a run anyway. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I'll have to look on my PC what I did at the time.  The pain in my quad was coming from my groin so quad stretch wasn't one of them.  I didn't write them in my diary but I think I'll have them on my PC.  I did only take a couple of days rest then my guru friend had me back out doing run one mile, then walk fast one mile for 5, then 6, then 7 miles.  Within a week I was running 2 miles, walk one, and got up to 10 miles.  Each time any discomfort was coming on later into the run.  Then run 4, walk one, then run whole distance.  A month later I ran my fastest marathon for 3 years so kept my fitness up despite the walking bits, I did walk flat out though, about 13:40 pace which is quite challenging to keep up but relieves the pressure on the groin.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - here you go, this should keep you busy.  This is the routine, when I started to recover was allowed to cut down to every other day.  My guru said injury probably caused by weak glutes hence glute exercises.

    150 squats (no weights)
    30 kitchen sink squats
    15 lunges (each side with weight)
    50 deadlifts with weight
    50 standing glute lifts (each side)
    10 one leg deadlifts (each side with weight)
    30 clams (each side)
    2 seated hip flexor (chair) each side
    2 seated hip flexor ( on floor in mermaid pose) each side
    2 warrior (each side)
    2 butterfly pose 
    2 outer rotation hip stretch
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    The stretches I did before each run, other stuff throughout the day.
  • That's a pretty extensive set of exercises!
    I'm getting the train to Manchester on Saturday and then Colin and I are going to drive to York where I have booked the Travelodge. Col's birthday is on Sunday so it's awesome of him to spend it waiting around for me.

    Big G, I've looked online but if you can post a piccy of the elevation, that would be helpful.
    My niggles always seem worse the less I do, especially the hip/groin ones. I think don't think sitting does any of us any favours.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, thanks.  Lots to be getting on with!

    Cal, here is the elevation from last year.  That out-and-back section through Dunnington, although flat, I found mentally quite hard.  I had to really dig in there, as I could see the faster runners coming back towards me, and I was forever on the look out for the turn around point.  It seemed to go on for ages.

    On my watch that section started at around 16.4, and the turn around point was at just over 18.  So once that out-and-back section is done, it's then just the final 10k (approx) to the finish.




  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - you are lucky to have a friend like Colin that takes care of all the transport logistics and waits for you at your marathons.

    & Big G - I think my guru friend has always worked on the principle that keep an injured marathon runner busy, less time to fret about forthcoming races.   I just looked back at my training diary for that period and I'm upbeat the whole time I was doing that rehab.  I think if you feel you're doing as much as possible to recover that's some reassurance.
  • Thanks Big G - I've heard about the out and back bit - downhill one way but then you have to run back up it again. That sounds fun. :(
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Getting close now,hope you don't get too nervous,I remember when I went for my sub 4 I was nervous as hell all morning and it was hammering down,but 5 mins before the start it stopped and I took that as a sign it was gonna be a good day.
    Shades-Doubt I could run after all that,I can barely manage a few leg swings before I set off.
    Big G-Hope you get to Chelmsford in good shape,or good enough to get round ok anyway.
    No running today as crazy in work,but have an extra day off this week so need to be careful I dont run too much.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I only used to do the stretches before a run, the other stuff throughout the day ;) 

    I was window shopping on the internet last night and the new Guides are out on 1st November, they look good.   Thankfully they've gone back to the previous naming so these will be Guide 13's.

    Tired legs this morning and tight hamstring, was legs session yesterday in the gym.   Despite that I had a really good run, 6 miles. Chilly morning, about 5 degrees, but no wind or rain.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, I don't really remember that section being up or downhill as such.  I'd say that it's definitely a quick course overall.  There is some talk about the hill close to the end, but even that's not that bad because it's not excessively steep, and it's also not that long.  Once at the top of it, it's a fast downhill to the finish.

    I've seen some things going around that IAAF are going to be investigating the Nike ZoomX Vaporfly shoes, as apparently some (presumably non-Nike) professional athletes have complained they give an unfair advantage.  Not sure what I think about all this.  On the one hand I think that for most amateurs, improved times etc will come from better training.  But on the other hand, if these shoes (at, let's face it, quite a high cost) do provide improvements, is that "fair" to everyone?  

    But then on the another hand (how many hands have I got? ;) ), is it similar to Tri where generally speaking if you have a better (more expensive) bike, you'll be quicker on the bike.  And also don't all shoe manufacturers try and give improvements to runners?  No manufacturer actively tries to make things worse, do they, so is there an argument that Nike are doing it better than other manufacturers at the moment?  A big part of me thinks it's all a marketing thing and that for people like me I'd see next to no difference at all if I wore those shoes.  But then when you see a field full of elites wearing them, maybe there is something in it (I know it's distorted with sponsorship deals etc, so it's complicated).  I know when I was talking to Young Trotter one time he estimated that 90% of people around him at London were wearing Nikes.

    I remember a few years ago it was all Adidas with their Boosts, wasn't it?  Now it's all Nike. 

    I suppose the extreme would be to make sure everyone is in exactly the same kit for "fairness", but obviously that's not going to happen.  :)
  • I can't say it's unfair because they are available to everyone - it's just a case of whether you can justify spending over £200 on a shoe. I have the 4%s and they are nice but not sure they make a huge difference. I did Vienna Marathon in the similar (but slightly heavier) Zoom Fly and Liverpool in the Epic Reacts and they were both 4:14.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I think complaining about the shoes is just sour grapes.   For years the top class sprinters have had bespoke shoes made specially for them and this is no different.   

    It's just marketing by Nike to say the shoes are faster than any other shoes, success is down to training etc.  Nike snap up as many runners as they can to sponsor to make it look like only successful athletes wear Nike whereas a lucrative sponsorship deal means the athlete has agreed to wear the shoes.

    Of course having a comfortable and suitable shoe is important but it's up to the athlete to find that for themselves.

    I must say those pink shoes of Nike are truly awful to look at.  :# 

    Fabulous Pilates class followed by gym, upper body today.   I upped the weights on Tuesday for my upper body exercises and I did find it tough today, my arms feel like they've had a good workout :)
  • LoueyLouey ✭✭✭
    Cal - I agree with BigG - it's a quick course and I also don't remember that section being particularly up or downhill. The final hill is a bit of a killer but you know that you are almost there and the crowd support there is amazing. 

    Shades - ah - the diet makes sense now! I'm sure the extra protein will help. I've wondered about trying to lose a bit more weight to get quicker but tbh I like food too much. I do like the analogy of  trying to keep marathon runners busy whilst injured, and it's true that most of us are quite good at doing lots of stretches and other exercises when we are injured and then it all goes to pot once you are back training again.  

    BigG - how's the hip/quads today?

    Rest day today. I did 4 miles at MP yesterday and it was harder than it should have been. I blame the fact that it was pitch black and chucking down with rain. I also had a massage yesterday afternoon at work. Lots of (very painful) muscle release on my hips and my knees are now much more mobile. Hopefully it will help! I need to fit in 3 miles tomorrow but annoyingly have to take my car into a garage to get the windscreen replaced as it has a big crack in it. All done through insurance but the nearest garage is 45 mins away and I have to wait 90 mins while they fix it. I'm hoping that there is a coffee shop or something nearby. I had planned to go out first thing but OH is away for a couple of days for business so I'm flying solo. 
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