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Shades Marathon Training

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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Rcouture  -As most on here will tell you, you don't need to train fast to run fast! Just keep running easy miles like Shades has said and you'll improve speed wise anyway.
    Cal - I normally do high reps, low weights. Deadlifts, goblet squats, tricep dips (I think thats what they are called!), lunges, bicep curls and lateral raises also stick a plank in too!
    First "Tinman Tempo" today, meant to be a bit faster than MP, so ran 4 easy, 3 tempo (6:46, 6:44, 6:43) and 4 cool down for 11 miles in total.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - glad the new shoes performed well.

    12kg kettlebell is quite heavy and would certainly limit what you could do with it.  Would limit me more than you I'm sure.

    Bad news on the mice still invading your flat.

    I haven't seen that there's much take up on the 2.62 challenge, except David Weir is doing a marathon in his hometown of Hastings.   They were a bit late announcing the 2.62 challenge perhaps.


    Ian - what's an athletic event if not a race?  Or do they mean runners can run together?


    Steve - well done on the first Tinman session today, great running.



    Just ordered a shoe tidy.  I think once installed and all shoes put tidily away should still be room for a couple of new pairs :D
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I am guessing it means maybe club runs are allowed or people running together.
    There is a programme with Kipchoge  on his 2 hour run,its on BBC1 around 1pm on Saturday.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I mentioned the Kipchoge programme twice on here in the last few days.  ;)  Lovely article here about him

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/52354320


    Still hard to imagine Austria allowing running together and still keeping one metre apart
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Must have been speed reading and missed it.
    I have read an article about hom recently though 
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/52354320
     :p 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Getting a bit frustrated over here as I went out for a run yesterday, having forgotten all about my injury.  However, 1 minute down the road I could feel it again. On this occasion I thought I'd try and see if I could go a bit further to see if it would ease off, but I stopped the watch after half a mile and walked home.  Very annoying as I'd forgotten about it over the past couple of days and it feels totally fine as I'm typing this.

    But I'm busy in the garden doing things so I'm keeping active, and still doing my once a day exercise, but just walking and not running.  My weight is still quite good as well, so just need to clear this niggle fully and get back out there when I can.  I think I said before that it's not that it's particularly painful really.  It's just not right and it impacts my running style.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - lol.  There is also some footage of the first London marathon being shown on Sunday, 40 years ago now.   :o

    Big G - oh that's really disappointing.  When you went to the physio last year about this injury what was it diagnosed as?  Is it actually a running injury?

    If not I would be tempted to run through it (carefully) walking when it gets too painful.  But it doesn't seem to respond to rest.  It's not in an area that can be taped is it?   Must be so annoying.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Hope it doesn't drag on again for you.
    About time I had one so a pretty ctappy run today,legs felt sapped of energy and a lot of effort all they way,did just under 12 and called it a day,was debating running tomorrow but will keep it to 5 days this week and hopefully go again from Saturday.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020
    Ian - yes, we all have those runs but usually one offs.   You've been doing some really good consistent training lately.

    Good to hear you and your staff can now get tested if needed.


    6 miles today for me, knee was fine.   Lovely morning, quite fresh only about 7 degrees when I went out.    Pleasing to see so many runners out so early today, think I saw 8, all running separately and smiley and seeming to enjoy their running.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    That's not good, Big G - I hope you can get it sorted.
    Ian, enjoy your rest day - I usually find a day off helps put some bounce back in the legs.
    I think I need a shoe rack or something, Shades!

    I'd decided I was going to do my virtual 5K today (part of the club league I set up) but not the route. I considered running down to Battersea Park as it's very fast (flat and wide - I've had a number of 10K PBs there, including the current one) but it's three miles and in the end I couldn't be arsed, so I did a 2 mile warm-up and went back to my tried and trusted road triangle (or shark fin, actually). Wore my Zoom Flys rather than the Peg Turbos for the entirely shallow reason that they are orange and black and I was dressed in my orange and black Hampton Court T-shirt and lava leggings. I don't always go matchy matchy with the outfit but if the opportunity arises, I will.
    Warm-up was actually quite quick (sub-10 on the second mile) so I knew I still had plenty of spring in the legs and set off accordingly. Did the first mile in 7:56 so figured I might slow a bit, but second mile was also 7:56. Tried to keep pushing for the last one and that was 7:53 and carried on pushing for the last .1. Ended up with 24:35 which is faster than all but two of my parkruns and all my races (I actually did the same time on the track in December, which is flatter - the shark fin has a slight gradient). Very happy with that.
    I did another two miles to cool down. Left leg is a bit cross so I'll have to give it a good massage. I run this route clockwise so it's not down to that - more to that stiff SI joint and all the sitting I'm doing while being confined indoors.
    Anyway, this does bode well for the 2.6 challenge which I'll be doing Sunday. May or may not take a rest tomorrow - if I do run it'll be a slow recovery run.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    That's a great run Cal.   When you are able to race or do parkrun again it'll be interesting to see how you hold race pace.   I reckon the discipline of doing virtual runs at a good pace means you could go faster in a 'race' situation and just as much due to mental strength than physical performance.

    It's worth getting a shoe rack as takes up less space to store them.   As I had searched on the internet for shoe storage I'm inundated now with pics of shoe racks when I'm on other websites. :#  I ordered from John Lewis in the end.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, enjoy your rest day.  I'm sure you'll be fine for your next run.

    Cal, well done on that.  Doing those times on your own is impressive.

    Shades, we didn't really get to the bottom officially of how it happened, but he didn't say that it was a running injury.  I told him I was a runner and I remember he asked about my running shoes, and also if I'd tripped or fallen (which I hadn't).  I was going back through my notes yesterday and he did say to run through mild discomfort.  I'd forgotten about that, so probably should have reread that earlier!  I think OH and I are going for a walk a bit later as she's got a day off today, so I'll try a 3 or 4 miler tomorrow all being well.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I'm not suggesting that you put yourself through lots of pain.   Handy you still have a record of treatment etc from last year.

    I reckon it's this DIY/garden remodelling that's doing it, you might need to ease up on that ;)
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes it's good news,only got 1 self isolating now,so she is trying to get a test booked,pity it is a 48hr wait for the result but 3 or 4 days off is better than 2 weeks.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - hope your member of staff managed to get an appointment as it seems they were inundated with requests.

    Back to clearing out my wardrobe, am also painting the wall that it's fixed to as I sort each section.  Found this today which I have hoarded to use with a special race number.   We had these given to us at Dublin marathon some time ago.


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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    When I got up this morning I decided to do my Hadd test today around the local industrial estate.   Had a little bit of traffic to deal with which meant hopping up onto the pavement now and then but nothing really to put me off my pace/stride.   Conditions good.   We have little flat land here in Devon and it's the first time I've ever recorded an elevation of zero for a run.   Anyway I'm pleased with results, below are my last few test results.   The last time I was this close in results (not shown in stats below) I ran a marathon PB of 4:30, followed by another PB the following week of 4:26.   However that's hypothetical really as I haven't been doing any long runs.  I really could do with a marathon to test myself....


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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Wow, Shades!  That is fantastic.  That must be very encouraging.  As you say, it would be interesting to see what would happen in a marathon.  Would you run the marathon to HR, if so which % would that translate to for you? 


    I went out and did 3 miles today.  Quite cold actually, with some mist in the air.  Quite a few runners out, but very easy to social distance so no problem.  I only did the 3 but did feel I could have carried on, but stuck strictly to the 3 just to test the knee.  There was some discomfort but nothing too bad, so I may try 4-5 tomorrow if the knee is still okay in the morning.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Great improvement!
    I know wrist based monitors are less accurate but I'm pretty much never below 140 for a run. Any lower and I'd have to walk. (This is why I don't do HR training!)
    Decided to rest today.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I do try and run most of my marathons to HR.   However, if only it was that simple to pick an HR from above and stick to it, and the pace.   In my Hadd test I find running at 82.5% fairly challenging and I certainly couldn't hold that pace for a marathon or even a half.    But on average a marathon where I feel I've had a good run and done my best on the day is generally 85% MHR but of course there is cardiac drift and it could be warm and/or windy and a hill or two.   Race HR is always higher than in training, adrenaline etc.
    So the first few miles would be well below 85%, probably around 80-82% and later in the race when it gets a bit tougher HR might easily go higher than 85%.

    That's good that your knee wasn't too bad today, very promising.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Not a running article and it does warn not to jump to conclusions, but funnily enough I was wondering about this subject to myself the other day.  Sad of course no matter the circumstances.
    https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-deaths-during-lockdown-2x-average-time-year-272987

    The reason I was wondering about it is that I saw what looked a new runner, with headphones, step out into the road without looking to try and keep to the social distancing rules and was very close to a car coming up from behind.  Just this morning I saw another runner step out into the road without looking and nearly get swiped by a passing cyclist.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal _ HR training, especially Hadd is not for everyone.  You need the patience of a saint for the first few weeks/months.   But it's always a good option for runners when they are no longer improving using more traditional training methods.

    Big G - well my instinctive reaction to that is that there are a lot more cyclists out on the roads.   Even my friends that are serious cyclists/Ironman triathletes do very little on the roads until the better weather and the lighter evenings so wouldn't normally be doing much in March.  Plus the occasional cyclists who are taking advantage of lockdown, as are the increase of runners just don't have the road sense of regular runners/cyclists. 

    Don't get me started again on the idiots with their headphones and no spatial awareness :#
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I have to say, I've noticed a few novice cyclists out with hardly any road sense.  Someone was saying on the Torbay Tri group that they saw a cyclist on the brow of a hill where the road narrowed due to a traffic island in the middle.  They were sat on their bike taking photos of the view, whilst still in the road.  Apparently the few cars out were beeping their horns etc.  Some don't seem to be able to ride along and signal at the same time, or even come to a stop safely.  Torbay Velopark is closed at the moment, but I wonder if it may reopen again soon?  But of course still sad to see a spike in the rate, even though there is far less traffic on the road.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I can only assume that some of these novices don't drive cars either and that makes them even more ignorant of the danger they cause to themselves and other traffic.

    With the increase in runners too, I see probably half of them running on the wrong side of the road where there's no pavement, oblivious to the danger they are putting themselves in....and often with headphones on too :'(
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well, even in London, a lot of people out and about are pretty clueless. I get wound up by couples who insist on walking side by side on narrow paths, people with headphones and people looking at their bloody phones.

    Just out of interest, I did a fast 4 mile walk (miles were 15:00/14:23/14:09/13:46) and averaged 90 overall but over 100 for the last mile, with a peak of 120. So that's pretty amazing you can run 10:21 at around that level.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - it depends on your max heart rate.  My max is relatively low at 160, so 120 would be 75% MHR for me.

    Your max is probably a lot higher, say 180 or even higher.

    But HR training does train the body to be more efficient at lower heart rates.  When I started doing this type of training the light bulb moment for me came 3 months into the training.  At the start I had a route that passed a bridge and at base training HR it would take me 20 minutes to reach that bridge.  3 months later at the same heart rate it would take me 15 minutes.   And I was what I thought was marathon fit when I started.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - I would say that half the runners I see now are running in the middle of the road through our neighbourhood so as to keep the pavements clear and social distance. There aren’t many cars about so it makes sense but I have thought of the danger, especially given reports of drivers speeding to take advantage of the emptier roads. 
    Cal - The worst I find are families who seem to think that because they have kids in tow, can take over the width of the path while you let them pass standing in bramble. Lots of that in Wimbledon common and it does my head in. 

    7 miles yesterday. My thinking is that I probably have a year until I get to run a marathon so in that time I’d be happy if I could condition myself to run >30miles a week comfortably. I peaked at 40 or so in feb/early March and probably averaged 35 or so in feb but my body really wasn’t happy with it at the time. I just need volume basically. 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Great improvement in the pace there,especially over the last year.
    I try to keep myself to 139 or under,about 75% based on my 5k efforts,I know the watch isn't as accurate as chest monitors but this one is pretty consistent and sits about how I feel.
    Had a quick look,and compared to this time last year I am about 20 secs/mile quicker for the same effort and with no sign of any racing soon,a good couple of months could see that improve more.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Rcouture, yeah, it's very nice running on quiet lanes without any traffic.  A few weeks ago on a long, straight downhill section I was running down the middle of the road whereas usually that wouldn't have been possible on that section!

    We did another Zoom quiz last night.  It's my 5th one now I think.  My mates are struggling this week, especially the couple who have two young kids as they're struggling getting the school work done.  Also, two of my mates are furloughed.  They're used to seeing people in the office etc and are starting to miss that interaction - for the first few weeks they said they were quite enjoying it, but said it's lost its appeal now.

    I think I'll be tuning in for the 1981 London Marathon today.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - that's a good plan to keep your base mileage at a level that fits in with the rest of your life and doesn't leave you tired or injured.  Then when it's time to up the training a bit for the marathon you'll find that you will be a lot stronger with all those miles in the bank.

    Re traffic, our road is usually fairly busy during the day with cars but since the lockdown it's fairly quiet but I'm noticing now that pedestrians are often crossing without looking to see if there's a car coming and often there is.

    Ian - 20 seconds a mile is significantly faster for you, especially at your pace.   Just shows how much racing interferes with our training ;) 

    Big G - I've sort of settled into the lockdown but I understand for others particularly with children it must be very hard, having to work from home and do home schooling too.   Even those without children are struggling, a lot of relationships are being tested to their limits.  I am so grateful I live on my own  :D   I'm also lucky that I run as I get out and have a little social interaction with those I see on my run.   For those that put their headphones on for their daily exercise they are really isolating themselves mentally when perhaps this is the time to leave the headphones at home.   There's definitely more cars around now and more pedestrians and yesterday on my run I saw 2 discarded cardboard beer cases in separate places on the edge of off road paths so I guess the teenagers are escaping and meeting up for a drink.

    I've been really impressed with what I've heard about Zoom during the lockdown except now it's been hacked several times and at important meetings extreme child sexual abuse has been shown by the hackers.   Zoom said they're looking into it, seems not very secure after all.

    I watched the programme on Kipchoge yesterday, was good.   Doesn't matter how many times I see that last km of the sub 2 run, so exciting.   I'll watch the 1981 London today too, I think it was about 7,000 runners then!

    8 miles today, my hilly route.   Found it quite hard today but still enjoyed it, lovely morning again.   Bluebells and wild garlic even more beautiful this week.   Saw the tiniest baby rabbit, so cute, when he saw me he just froze with fear and didn't run away, he won't last long unless he learns to run away.   I also came across a woman and her daughter, maybe about 3 years old having breakfast on the grass verge outside their house, the house is on a quiet country lane in the middle of nowhere.  I guess they just needed to get outdoors, so sat on the verge which has a lovely view into the valley.   They seemed pleased to see me and we exchanged a cheery greeting.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I guess Zoom is something you need a webcam and mic for, no? (I don't have either). My club's doing Zoom stuff including quizzes but I've not been able to take part.

    I think I'm a natural hermit as I'm fine - I never got much interaction anyway. I mostly kept in touch with people via Facebook, which I'm still able to do.

    Anyway, I did the 2.6 challenge today - 2 miles warm-up and then a further 4.5 miles (did the extra half so I could complete 9 miles total - I'd have done 4.4 but that last .1 was bugging me, heh). The 2.6 itself went really well. I went back to the shark fin which, incidentally, a good number of my clubmates are now using since I let them know about it, and went off like the clappers. Right knee was a bit sticky to begin with but eased up during the first lap, thank goodness (right knee has always been a bit funny but I don't usually feel it while running, more doing lunges and stuff like that. I've been doing a few yoga sessions at home so perhaps it's that. Or all the sitting). First mile went down in 7:51.3 which is pretty quick for me. Kept pushing and did another 7:51.3 - nice consistency - then pushed as hard as I could on the last .6 where my pace averaged 7:46. Final time - 20:27. A sub-20 would have been awesome but I'm not quite there yet. I put it through the WAVA calculator and it came out at over 70, so that's a good result for me - I've only managed over 70 at two parkruns (I was 69.93 for the 5K I did on Friday).
    I will say that it hurt, in terms of effort - I honestly don't think I could have gone any faster (at least, not on my own).
    Once I'd got my breath back I did my cool-down run and actually enjoyed it.

    A rather paltry 22 miles this week but that's down to missing two days and not doing a long run today. I guess I needed a cut-back - the days off certainly seemed to help with my speed, at least.
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