Shades Marathon Training

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  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Thanks Ian/Shades - just went out for 7 miles and tested it and <139 I’m >10m/m. I will try it out but not sure I have the patience for it. Seems worth it though now with this long stretch ahead. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cozy, sorry to hear you've had a bug - hopefully it'll shift soon.

    Ian, I can't totally figure out how/where/why but it seems I've taken my eye off the ball in the last 6-9 months or so as I was sure I was running at the correct pace.  But probably I was running based on a level of fitness I had a few months ago, which obviously has slipped a bit.

    Shades, I'll do that then.  I've said to myself that I'm going to try and stick to that HR (and slow down some more later in runs as needed) until the end of May and see what happens.  As you know, it's difficult to get totally flat routes around here.  I could go around Paignton Green on all my runs but that what drive me insane and also wouldn't be very enjoyably but I'll limit any "monster" hills for a couple of weeks at least, and if I do them I'll just walk them.  I can do the Torbay Half route easily (and extend it over towards Goodrington) which although not pancake flat isn't too hilly I suppose.  Slightly annoying that the last mile will always be a gentle uphill back home, so that may result in walking a bit of that last mile each time.

    I reread that Hadd document and he'd have me at 146 (or lower), whereas MAF had me at 142.  Am I right to presume that when you're doing Hadd training you use this 75% HR for all sessions?  Reason for asking is that I remembered that Hadd has his runner running at different HRs on different sessions in the week, but that seems a bit more complicated.  I was just going to stick to the 142-145 on all runs to keep it simple.  In May, I'm also absolutely determined to lose that stubborn couple of pounds I nearly always carry - I'm quite happy with my weight actually, but I think the couple of pounds would help too.  I'm going to try and not be too tempted to redo the MAF test until towards the end of May, as I think that could end up being disheartening.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - you did well to control your HR for a first attempt at <139.
    If you can do that for the majority of your runs it really will be worth it.   When you feel you want a faster run then just do it, but the more fast runs you do the less base/aerobic improvement will be made.

    Big G - gently undulating routes are fine and will help you become more skilled at controlling the HR.   Running round Paignton green would drive me insane too, although would be great for my Hadd test.  I've usually got a hill in my last mile too, but it's not enough to distort the average  % for the run.

    With Hadd it's 75% or less, so we usually try and stick to 70%-75% for base pace.   You stick to that until you can run 10 miles with no cardiac drift then you introduce the ILTHR.  It's summarised on the last 2 pages.  



    7 gorgeous miles today in gorgeous rain.  No wind, not cold and rain not heavy just pleasantly light, everything feels fresh and clean.     Wore my Guide 10's today, these were my race shoes for last year but now with over 400 miles I won't race in them again, although the cushioning still feels good.   They really are my perfect shoe, when I put them on they feel like they were made for me.   Unfortunately can't find any more, hopefully when I try the Guide 13 they might come close. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, when I did that MAF test, I ran up and down the road on the beach side of Paignton Green.  It's exactly half a mile long and as it's wide it's easy to run around smoothly at each end.  It's closed to traffic at the moment too due to the virus.  I live one mile from there, so it was a gentle run down, restart the watch, do the test, and then run home.  If it's windy it would be no good for that test though.  I have done laps of the green on one occasion (18 miles) as I was practicing for that 42 lapper I did.  Dull!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that stretch on the beach side sounds perfect for MAF test.  Useless trying to do any test in bad weather, especially when it's windy.   

    The Hadd test I did at the weekend was originally intended to be done 6 weeks after the January one, which happened to be the weekend of Storm Ciara or Dennis ;) 

    I haven't heard anything lately from North Dorset marathon, have you?   That's where we should be this coming weekend...no hog roast either :(
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, no I haven't heard anything from North Dorset yet apart from the email they sent that it was cancelled and that they were working on coming up with a new date.  They must be considering cancelling this year's totally.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I just looked on the website and no new info.   I think I saw on here that the date of 11th October had been mentioned but I expect Innes is waiting to see if even then races will be feasible/allowable.

    I wonder if there will be an announcement about London this week once they've had that meeting on sporting fixtures
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I did read something from the London Marathon organisers that they've got some different options.  I guess there's a very small chance that they'll put an elite race on, but that possibility upset some new runners asking why elites should get a chance to run, when they can't.  :)  Personally, I'd like to see an elite race if it's safe to do so as it would possibly have been a classic between Kipchoge and Bekele (presuming they still run), but I know the potential crowds are a problem.  I really hope they don't do a virtual race for the masses, which was mentioned by some as a good idea.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I can't see an elite race working for London as it will attract spectators and they won't be following social distancing rules.   I'd love to see an elite race too, but there may still be issues re travel/quarantine rules and of course as yet I doubt African countries have seen the worst of the pandemic.

    They won't hold a virtual race, that will be lots of runners out for too long and not social distancing and lots of them would run the London course, so would be uncontrolled chaos.   I see EA are now offering advice on how to organise virtual races.  Only the beginners or the cheaters would think a virtual race is a good idea.   Apart from the elite, London is really a charity fun run but they would demean the event IMHO by holding a virtual race.   
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - Yes, if we are allowed we still plan to get married in October. We don't have many guests (just under 50), so I'm hoping that if restrictions are eased we might be OK. But for now, we just need to wait and see.
    Big G / Rcouture - I've found it easy to just run with the HR screen showing at times to not worry about pace, I sometimes do this on my recovery runs then just try to keep HR in line and I don't even know what the pace is.

    Another workout today, session was 8*600 at 10k pace and then 4*200 at mile pace. Reps were 2:16/2:18/2:17/2:17/2:19/2:16/2:16/2:15 for the 600's and 38/37/39/38 for the 200's, all pretty consistent. 600's off 90 seconds and 200's off 60 seconds. 11 miles in total for the day.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I was going to post this yesterday.  Pardon my French, but there's a Twitter account called StravaWankers, which "outs" people who "cheat" on Strava :)  There's even a competition where people run as fast as they can for a 5k in total, but stop when they want.  It's down to about 10mins I think.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/strava-app-ross-barkley-5k-challenge-run-for-heroes-a9485011.html

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G/Shades-I hope they don't put on a virtual race,lots of runners running the distance could put a big strain on services around the country,esp as london attracts a lot of first time marathoners,who may not have trained properly due to the virus.
    In circumstances like this I don't have a major issue with virtual,as long as people don't count the times,I know some people who have done them with small race companies to help them over this time so they come out the other side ok.
    I watched the 81 marathon yesterday,loved the clothing people ran in,not many tech tops there,and the 4 hr pacer at the start had hardly anyone behind him.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - well I do hope by October you'll be able to get married as planned, even if you had to edit the guest list a bit that wouldn't be too bad I suppose.

    that's an exhausting session, Tinman one perhaps :o 


    Big G - lots of cheats on Strava I guess, spend more time on their phones than running.


    Ian - I really can't see how a virtual marathon would work, unless they have a week to run it in segments.   But October is a while away yet.

    Yes, the 1981 marathon was good.  Definite lack of dayglo clothing in those days, all looked a bit grey but the weather didn't help.   I think the nearest they got to a tech vest was a string vest.   Ron Hill who has a PhD in textile engineering was always experimenting with new cooler fabrics and think he wore a string vest for some of his races.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Steve - Well done on that session, especially having the motivation to do it with no specific race on the horizon.

    Big G - Good luck with the base training. With patience you'll definitely see some results. Are you going to follow a diet or anything to shift those extra few pounds? My weight had crept up again as well. I bought a cabbage last week, made a big pot of soup and was all motivated to stick to that for lunchtimes and evenings (obviously can't give up poached egg on toast for breakfast). My plans came to nothing though as I ended up eating the cabbage soup on top of what everyone else was eating  :/ 

    Shades - Yes, I would find it hard to do a long run without a marathon coming up. 

    I'm being a bit thick here but a virtual race means that you do the distance on your own and log in your stats afterwards? I'm not on strava or anything and have only a vague idea how it works.

    Lovely run this morning - fresh and cool, think we're going to have a storm later. On a wildlife note I saw a few hares and heard some frogs.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Steve, I’ll tried that today’s run and it worked well. Thanks. 

    Ian, I noticed that too about the 4hr pacer.

    MF, I’m mainly going to try and cut out snacks. I’ve fallen into the habit of regularly having a bowl of cereal in the evening, for example, and I don’t need it. I’m happy with my weight, but I know a couple of pounds lighter will help. Yes, virtual races are when a person goes out and does 26.2 miles (or what ever distance) on their own. Many companies will send them a medal if they want one. Or you can race others on applications such as Zwift. 

    I did 10 miles today, averaging 143. I did have to walk a couple of undulations but it’s a baseline on a route I do regularly. 

    Shades, in terms of mileage, if I run most days is there a mileage it’s not really worth going over?  IE is training for 7 miles, with a bigger majority of those miles spent running, better than doing 10 miles which may involve more walking towards the end?  Or doesn’t it really matter as long as the HR is kept in mind?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Mamafox - I'm sure the cabbage soup was a healthy addition to your diet.  Maybe when you're back working and back to usual routine the weight will go back to normal.

    Yes, that's right re virtual race.  Even before the pandemic there were some companies offering virtual races so you ran the distance at home, submitted the data and they would send you a medal.   You'd still have to pay an entry fee though.  Just all seems a bit pointless to me but popular with beginners.

    Haven't seen a hare for years, they're quite rare down here.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well done on today's run.   I don't look at pace either whilst running just the HR and distance.  If you start worrying/thinking about the pace that would probably put your HR up !

    No, no limitations on distance.   It's entirely up to you but it's highly unlikely that on a longer run you'd end up having to walk the last few miles.  I've found that once cardiac drift happens it doesn't get progressively worse as the miles go on just the final miles are slower than the first few. 
     But you can still ramp up some decent mileage without doing long runs.  You shouldn't feel so tired running at that HR.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve-Hope we are in a position by then to let your wedding go on.
    Big G-I'll be interested to see how you progress.
    13 miles today,felt a bit slower than usual but not too bad.240 miles now,rest day has changed to friday as I have  a busy work day then so barring a disaster it will be my highest month ever.OH meant to run 12 today but got her routes mixed up and ran 16  :smiley:
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, yeah, it'll be interesting to see.  Fingers crossed I'll stay injury/illness free, as this is going to be my running focus until the end of May.  Today's was quite slow (10:30min/mile) on a route that I'm usually around 9:30s on for a steady run, but I'll just persevere through May and see how it goes.  It felt very odd having to walk some undulations that I usually fly up (comparatively!), but it was nice coming back down the other side :)  Don't know if 5-6 weeks of it will see much improvement but I guess I'll find out.

    Shades, it's only Tuesday and I've done twice as many miles this week compared to last week :)  I'll play it by ear but I may do a 15 miler or something like that at some point, but nothing too long.  Probably most runs will be 6-10ish, maybe with a 3 or 4 miler thrown in as a shorter run if I feel I need it.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Keith/Cal/Robert/Iain, I hope you're all doing okay.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    We've just had the Prime Minister giving his speech about how we're going to come out of this lockdown from the 11th May. There was loads in there (It's going to be very progressive) but from a running point of view he said all being well large sporting events can be considered to be going ahead from 1st September. If Britain follows a similar plan then this should be good news for all those autumn marathons  :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Mama-Any good marathons there on 13th september?  :)
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Ian - Ha! There are loads in September.. just Google it and take your pick. Failing that i can highly recommend my local, Cognac, on the 14th November. A cracker of a race B)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    I found Oct 11th quoted as the new date for North Dorset (from google).

    Big G - as you say that twitter site exposes strava cheats. It exposed a lot of recent virtual 5k times, then it became clear that a Chelsea player had posted a sharp time but had cheated too. So they came up with an as fast as possible (despite rest periods) in a full Ross Barkley way.........there is another site "sir mo's doorbell' which if you read back will give links to dome good journalists and their articles, bit of an eye opener.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - your OH seems to love running the longer distances.   Is she working too during the lockdown?

    mamafox - we're expecting a similar update from Boris around about the 7th May, we'll see.   Ireland have banned all events >5,000 until at least September.  Connemara's new date is 27th September and has total entrants circa 3,000 but the problem with Connemara is that we have to travel by bus to and from the start so that might be a social distancing problem.   And of course there may be quarantining required for travel to and from Europe which would put any racing marathons in Europe out for us, although I don't mind quarantining myself when I get home.

    There's a meeting on Friday about sporting fixtures including the London marathon.   I can't see it going ahead, I think for fear of a 2nd wave/peak it's possible all events might be cancelled for the rest of the year, we'll see.

    TR - I found that new date for NDVM, I've just done a search, it's on Poole's website but not on the club organising the marathon.   But good to pencil it in as a possibility.


    Rest day for me today.   I went food shopping last night, Aldi...no lentils again :( . Went at 6:15, lovely and quiet with happy smiley shoppers, nobody wearing masks.  Then I went to Sainsburys as I needed some socks and a new kitchen knife, fairly quiet but I noticed a few people wearing masks and they all looked stressed.  I think wearing a mask makes people nervous, or maybe nervous people wear masks?   No lentils in Sainsburys either :(    But shopping in the evening means that after getting home I'm not tired at my usual bedtime so stay up a bit later and then have a bad night's sleep, same thing happened last week, hence rest day today.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, if you do consider a French marathon don't forget you'll probably need a medical certificate.  Although you mentioned your daughter may be able to help with that?

    Regarding mass events, I did see on the BBC news this morning there was mention of parkruns. Not in terms of restarting any time soon, but there was a train of thought that things like parkrun could restart earlier than for example football matches, as parkruns tend to be local and smaller events.  I just had a quick look and I can't see an article on the BBC site yet, but probably it'll appear soon.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    It's not specifically about parkrun, but here is the associated article.  It's just a train of thought, so obviously there's nothing official at the moment.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - it makes sense to start with smaller local events.   But the trouble with parkrun is there's no control of the number that may turn up, whereas with say DD there's a limit of 260 runners and then marshalling/social distancing could be put in place for that number.

    If say Torbay parkrun announced they were restarting on Saturday, masses of people would turn up wouldn't they?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I think Ian would be the only one that could get a medical certificate in these times.   :)

    No way would a doctor see anyone for that reason right now.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes she is working,she works as a pharmacy dispenser so no break for either of us,she enjoys the long ones,esp now she's getting the hang of running to effort not pace.
    Big G-Yes she will do me a form or one of her mates if I need it.I've picked a race if it goes ahead in september,but have got a few different ones depending on if any countries allow it,but if we have to quarantine on the way back then I couldn't do it.
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