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Shades Marathon Training
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Keith - I'm not suggesting you should retire
6 miles this morning, 17 degrees and very humid.
I have an appointment with my hairdresser this morning, she comes to my place. I asked her if I need to don mask and gloves but I don't. She has to use sanitiser and wear a visor, as per the rules.
I think I might try 140-145 for my next ILTHR run, as I feel I'm good at 135-140 now, just disappointed that my 125 pace isn't where I want it to be!!
I was only hoping that the chest strap might give you lower readings at your base rate and you can then speed up a bit.
I was having a look back through that BT thread too. Some interesting stuff there.
There’s an Aussie YouTube guy who has a few hundred subscribers and is trying to build up his channel. I like him as he’s quite open regarding the ups and down of MAF. He’s a good runner - sub 3 and 50+ I think. But he’s realised he’s been doing it ‘wrong’ over the last few months. His MAF is 132 but that’s been the average of his whole run, so in theory he could have started at 122 and ended on 142. He made a video and he’s clearly upset about it and apologetic etc. He’s got some nice comments so I hope he keeps going. The video has lots of editing - I think he was struggling to get his words out. Main part starts at 4:48.
That Aussie chap must have missed the bit that his MAF rate is a starting place and in time to aim for 10 bpm below. But of course it depends really how accurate his MAF rate is for him, i.e. not putting him up into 80+% MHR for base training. But HR training is a lot of trial and error.
On that lengthy BT thread, which I'm also re-reading. If you look at the penultimate page I detailed the lead up to my 10 minute marathon PB in 2009. I'd forgotten that I'd run 2 marathons the previous weekend, not a double but 2 in 3 days.
I've had my hair cut
Now I'm going out to buy a sofa. I've been saving for a new sofa for years and then spending the fund on marathons and related travel costs. But now with all the refunds I have a surplus in my budget. Am going to try and buy local, Harvey's going into administration has made me a bit nervous. I know my credit card would refund me but I might wait months before knowing if I was going to get (or not) my sofa from a big chain. I don't blame the companies at all, very difficult times for businesses.
Great news that you've settled comfortably at your new weight, especially as you can still have 2 breakfasts.
Shades, in terms of timing, New Forest could be perfect for me as that will be 20 weeks since I started MAF training and I'd consider that a decent block. Then if I do incorporate some speed work at 80/20 or 90/10 in August again it could be perfect as I could do a few sessions in August and then stop them again if I wanted to, couple of weeks before the race. I'm tempted, I have to say, particularly as usually accommodation is really expensive around there, which is what has put me off entering it in the past. I've always fancied doing that event so I am very tempted.
Just looking back, I am definitely seeing improvements. I have a regular 10-miler - sometimes I go Paignton-Torquay-Goodrington-Paignton and sometimes I go Paignton-Goodrington-Torquay-Paigton, but it's on exactly the same routes, same distance, same elevation, etc.
Today's run was very, very comfortable and I averaged 10:07min/mile, 136bpm, 1377 beats per minute and did it in 1:41:15. 30th April I did 10:39min/mile, 134bpm, 1432 beats per minute and did it in 1:46:27. So today, when it felt really comfortable, I was over 5mins quicker (30secs/mile) on the same route. I think most of that time improvement is because I'm able to run more of the slopes now, and although today's average HR is a couple of beats higher, again I think that is partly because I am running more of the slopes so it's not as stop/start.
https://www.100marathonclub.org.uk/files/user_uploaded/articles/100MC 6th July Committee meeting minutes.pdf?1594200304
Regarding New Forest, if it goes ahead but it still doesn't "count" at that time, I'd still do it as it is an event I want to do. For me personally, New Forest feels like a different event compared to running around a lake in MK.
I'm sure if it gets the go-ahead races will then be recognised by 100mc as it will be a sizeable event and I assume has EA or TRA permit.
I can understand the 100mc thinking in the decision from this meeting. Although some of it is a bit woolly at least they are going to allow the foreign races.
Don't know what that Chelmsford event is, I wonder if that should say IOM?
That's significant progress in your base pace, 30 secs per mile in 2 months is a lot.
Sofa purchased, saw one yesterday but thought it would be too big so came home to measure up and it's fine. Will have in a few days. Of course then I need to decorate and buy new curtains etc so more spending but I have several unused budget funds I can tap into.
https://www.chelmsford-athletics.club/lap-o-the-lake
Short sighted though of the 100mc not to be aware that the IOM marathon is going ahead. It's not a foreign marathon as it has a UKA permit.
BigG: I'm actually trying to set up a parkrun here in Breda but there's a lot of organising and stuff behind it. Ideally you need to have a group of runners supporting and helping. I've got...3. So, I'm tempted to try and give it to someone else and see if they can make a go of it.
Re: 100club. I think they've made a smart decision with the rules but things like IOM will be a thorn in their side (especially if Wales/Scotland/NI start to reopen).
Shades: good news on the sofa. That's a quick buy! What's the delivery times like?
5miles this morning with the dogs. Just a "quick" one as I've got both kids today and don't have time later.
Emmy, it's tough getting parkruns up and running. One local to me took a looooong time to set up, but it's proved to be successful. I take it there are no running or athletics clubs nearby that you'd be able to tap into? I'm not personally involved in any, but from what I've heard if you can get a team together (as you say) and then get the council or whoever manages the land on board, you're half way there. That makes it sound easy, but it can be a long process.
Should have sofa in a few days, clearance stock.
Going to be tough getting a parkrun started especially if you have to get local authority and financial backing. Parkrun relied on its reputation for bringing people into the sport and that's what generated their funding. But more people have taken up running due to the pandemic than because of parkrun.
UKA are making severe cuts financially to avoid going bust and if London doesn't happen London won't have the money either to support parkrun. So not sure if they'll have enough funding at parkrun without a change of policy and structure too.
I was theoretically following Hadd, but because I felt that 70% HRMax would have been just too slow I started on about 73%. Within a month I was down about 30 secs/km, and in another month another 20 secs/km. Promising progress, but I guess that I have to consider the lack of fitness when starting, and that in that period I moved from the mileage mentioned to a peak of 65kms a week (not then used to it yet, but the easy running got me there with no problems), and I lost about 7lbs.
I then read about Maffetone, and read on various threads / fora the comment “the slower I go the more I improve” so I thought I would give Maffetone a try for further base training until I was ready for the faster Hadd runs. As you know, unlike Hadd which is an average, the constraint with MAF is to not exceed MAF at all, so, the average bpm I reached when doing MAF was about 5 bpm less than I had been doing with Hadd, consequently – and perhaps not surprisingly – my times per km at first went back to what they had been at the start of Hadd, and soon after that they went backwards a further 20 secs / km, and were generally erratic bouncing back and forth between the old start of Hadd times and 20 secs slower, and I have seen little or no improvement over the 6 weeks since starting MAF. The only things that have happened is that (a) the erratic nature of the times have reduced so that I am generally at the old start of Hadd times consistently, and sometimes 5 – 10 secs better, but not near the Hadd times I eventually got to after the first 2 months, and (b) I get up the hills with a little less walking/slowing.
Is there a clue in this, specifically that if I got good progress on Hadd, is it that this was at the “sweet-spot” for my LT, and the MAF is too slow and I should return to Hadd? Or should I continue to be patient? Have also pushed mileage up to 80+kms, and not used to that yet (although not feeling tired) so perhaps getting used to that may have had an effect?
Your point about training HR and HRM could have a bearing, I am basing the HRM on the highest reading I got 3 years ago, running up a steep hill with 1km to go in a hard 10k race chasing hard someone I wanted to beat. Would this be a reasonable indicator? I know that it is normally a 5k race that might elicit the highest HRM, but this was the highest I had had.
Haven’t yet done a MAF or Hadd test, but am checking first mile - after a warm up - of my run on a certain course, and it isn’t showing any real change. On the plus side, I am keeping up the running under MAF for now, so we’ll see.
Apologies Shades, I shouldn’t take up so much of your time with such a long post, but a view from someone standing back would be really welcome.
I was involved in setting up a parkrun: was difficult to say no as the prime mover was a neighbour and friend. And it was difficult setting up: local authorities, health and safety, parkrun themselves. We managed to get funding from the L.A., the co-op and the airport. The latter two have community funds that are easy to tap into; the L.A. gave the money out of a health budget, if I remember correctly.
And it is a major commitment! 52 weeks a year! Our course was entirely on grass and liable to flooding so one of us had to check the course the day before(usually me!), and the course had to be set up and taken down. In the winter this was often the evening before. Usually took around 45 minutes to set up, 30 minutes to take down. No fun when it was freezing or even worse, wet. Plus the hassle of getting volunteers etc. Did enjoy it but glad when others took over.
Big G: there are several clubs but I've had absolutely no response to my emails. I've also tried a local running shop and they were keen but said "they have their own regular unofficial 5k in the park" so didn't want another one as competition.
We've had a few issues with the boswachter here and that's not ideal either as one route was through the forest/heavily reliant on their goodwill.
It's a lot of committment taking on a parkrun.
Emmy - maybe the running clubs are not operating as usual right now as they would need to have their committee meetings to discuss your email proposal.
I had to look up boswachter,
Returnee - that's really interesting. I can see why right now you're somewhat frustrated.
Re your MHR, I think that was a good test up that hill in a tough hilly race. At most you could add a couple of bpm if you didn't throw up.
Hill reps are usually the best way to do a MHR test.
You made significant progress when starting out with Hadd and 73% is OK. I tend to run 70-75% as not much flat around here.
I've never done Maffetone, as mentioned before when I looked at it a few years ago the MAF rate was just too high for me and Hadd appealed to me more. So Big G is our resident Maffetone expert.
I think you're right, you should think about a return to running at your Hadd base training rate. See if you can start making progress again.
A Hadd test is a good idea, if you don't have easy access to a track then any flat road will do. Even if you only do the test for the lower 3 heart rates, that's where you want to see initial progress. Or easier still do a MAF test using your Hadd HR.
One other consideration is that for the last few weeks humidity had increased a lot, most of us have noticed that we've had poor and often inconsistent stats.
Shades/Emmy/Alehouse - that is strange about parkrun and London. I'm sure fairly recently (i.e., in the last 12 months) I noticed London was still on the site as a supporter or sponsor. I could be wrong though.
Strange about the running clubs, Emmy. Maybe they're a bit unsure as parkrun is so new there? I know we (Trotters) were approached and said "no". I was actually for it, but the decision was no just mainly based on the amount of work needed week in week out. And of course we have our own races anyway which take a lot of organising.
Talking abut fantastic runs. I had one this afternoon. My 6-mile loop with the uphill first mile was again the quickest I've done on that route. I was smiling like a loon on the downhill bit - it just felt great. It's been a good day for me today with 16 miles for the day and both runs decent.
I'm glad I didn't imagine London marathon as a previous sponsor of parkrun. London has a charity and I suppose they allocate funds to different causes each year. Odd that Brasher resigned too, although I don't know if it was at the same time, if linked at all.
I don’t know if that is an old page but I presume it would have been taken down if it was no longer valid (I found the above page from Googling, not directly off the parkrun site).
London Marathon isn’t in the list of current supporters though, which is odd. So I presume the above page is no longer valid.
Returnee: if I can make an observation! You seem to have gone from 25 to 65 then to 80k in a relatively short period of time and whilst you say that you don't feel tired I would be fairly sure that it must have an impact. Have you had a cut back week at all (sorry if I missed you saying so)? The key thing of course is to train consistently and it is that consistent consistency that reaps dividends. Patience is definitely the name of the game! And with no races on the horizon I guess we are all learning to be patient, which in my view is no bad thing!
The Arahis seem like a great shoe, bit concerned that you could feel your knees knocking though.
TR - I believe NF is quite a fast course so good running to get an AG prize there, I would imagine it's quite a competitive race.
Are off road events on Pof10? It wouldn't have a certificate of measurement as too much off road. Trail events often come up a bit short (or over) as often measured on GPS. The 100MC only requires a trail marathon to be 26 miles, often impossible to measure accurately off road anyway, depending on the terrain.
Big G - NF will fill if there's a strong possibility of it going ahead.
I didn't take Travelodge vouchers, I took the money. Not sure if you'd get the voucher back, maybe better to use the vouchers another time.
7 miles this morning, 17 degrees and very humid, the lights in my flat were flickering so maybe an electrical storm in the area. I decided to be brave and run past B & Q and where that seagull that attacked me. I ran as close the the wall/hedge as I could while the seagull was perched on the street light glaring at me. But he didn't attack today, might have been my jazzy arm warmers that deterred him
I went and did 7.5 miles today and had a good run out again. Annoyingly although the activity is on my watch I can't get it to sync either via my phone app or via USB. Not sure of there's a problem at the Garmin end or what but I'll try again later.
But Pof10 don't use TRA races do they?
Garmin was slow to sync yesterday and even slower today, I had to plug my watch into PC both days. Today my phone picked up my Garmin stats 2 hours after I'd finished my run. But stats picked up on PC in 10 minutes, after multiple refreshing
Big G - Sounds like great progress to me.
10 miles today managed to stay around 70-75%. Not sure if I will stick with HADD after this week, as that will be 8 weeks. I know the benefits from sticking with it, but tempted to just run easy with some 10k work one week and MP the next.
Big G - Garmin were having server issues this morning, as mine wouldn't sync either. My 17 miler on Saturday didn't upload to Strava, so I had to download the gpx file from Garmin connect and upload into Strava!!
Sounds like a few of us are having Garmin issues then. Annoying!