Shades Marathon Training

Ian5

Cal-I presume your flights have been cancelled so you should eventually get a refund for that.
With all the money I've saved this year I'm debating doing Boston and Chicago next year,Boston flights are cheap at the minute if I change in Dublin,but might give it a few months and see what happens there.

1SteveMac

Emmy - Nice 5 miles.
Big G - Nice 10 miles. Super consistent mileage recently.
Shades - I know I should use a strap. I might try one for an easy run at some point, just to compare.
Ian - Superb running. That's also off the back of a good week last week too, so you would have had tired legs already.

However I know what my easy pace feels like, so I'm happy running without HR data.

I did 12*400m with 400m recoveries today aiming to hit somewhere between 5k-10k pace. 1:31/30/31/27/29/28/28/30/29/33/31/26. With 2m warm up and same to cool down, that's 10 miles for the day.

Big_G

I think I may have been wrong with what I said earlier.  I think to get the running dynamics to work properly you need the new HRM strap.  But do I really need that stuff (vertical oscillation, ground contact time, ground contact balance)?  I don't want to go down the road of changing my running style really, which is what I suppose that information may help with.  For example, I already know I tend to land heavier on my left compared to my right as I can tell that from the wear on all my running shoes.  And I am definitely a "shuffler"....which I suppose the oscillation data would back up in some ways  

WP, do you make use of the running dynamics?

I had a rummage around in my box of "random running stuff" and I do have a spare HRM.  It came with Claire's old 405 but it's exactly the same model as what I'm wearing now from the 305.

I have been reading reviews of the watch and I think the main gripe seems to be that the elevation data is rubbish as it doesn't have an altimeter/barometer like the otherwise similarly spec'd Fenix watches do.

I think the newer models have more functionality to do with music/Spotify, but personally I'm not interested in that side of it.

SHADES

Ian - it's tempting to book up while prices are good.   I bought a sofa with my money saved.  


Steve - were your 400m splits comparable to the last time you did that session?


Big G - yes, I'm sure you're right.  My as yet unused Garmin is a RUN one and that has the dynamics facility, the other is the TRI one which I suppose does the same but for all 3 disciplines.  The Garmin guy showed me all those dynamic functions but I knew I wouldn't ever use them so opted for a cheaper Garmin.

It's just up to what you would use/want.   More columns on the spreadsheet 

SHADES

Big G - this is the RUN box

Big_G

X post, Steve.  Well done on your session today and the last one was the quickest!  Yes, I'm pleased with my training as this is by far the most consistent I've ever been.

Thanks Shades.  Makes sense I suppose as I'm guessing the strap has some kind of electronics to measure the oscillation data that can't be done in the watch or older straps.  But do I need it?!  It's nice to have I suppose and I do like my data....  £40 for "Running Dynamics", but is it worth it?  Amazon's deal will be gone today I think as it's a "deal of the day" but I have saved a load of money these last few months so maybe I should just get the Wiggle package.  I'm not usually quite this indecisive and I do need another watch.  My current battery lasted only 30 miles since the last charge.

Welshpoppy

Big G

While it is nice to have and I love data, once i had used for a few weeks and could see I ran 50:50 gct  I really did not need it and have not used since flare up of achilles. So I would say if your hrm strap works no need to buy the run hrm strap.

Hope that helps and also I have sensitive body and made myself some sock cover for the metal part that dug into me.

Welshpoppy

Fenix high spec is more accurate for elevation but I am not bothered it does what I want and I live in hill country and it is in the ball park for elevation.

Welshpoppy

I would buy the Amazon deal of the day😁

Big_G

Thanks WP. Good to know from someone who has it and you’ve saved me £40 I’ve just ordered the Amazon one and if for whatever reason my current strap doesn’t pair I’ll send it back and get the Wiggle bundle. I can’t see why my current strap shouldn’t pair though as the watch uses ANT+.  Strange how I’d been looking at this watch the last few days and then a ‘deal of the day’ came along, so I’m happy with it. 

1SteveMac

Shades - This time; 1:31/30/31/27/29/28/28/30/29/33/31/26
Last time (21/04); 1:32/31/32/36/32/31/31/30/31/34/34/29
So faster this time, but not much in it really.

Ian5

Big G-You're the tech guy but do you think the deal of the day came up as that because you had been looking at it? Can't see it on my deals of the day,hence the question.
When I was running yesterday I seen a Forrest Gump like runner and thought it looked like Rob Pope,had a look on my flyby and indeed it was,not sure if anyone has heard of him but he ran across USA 4 times,initially tracing Gump from Mobile to the ocean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pope_(runner)
I heard him on a podcast a while back and he is a very engaging guy.
We now have Magdeburg lined up as a back up to Barca,their state are allowing gatherings of 1000 in August and the race had 250 in the marathon last year so looking promising.

Welshpoppy

Excellent news that was how I got mine last year deal of the day,I told friend who I had researched best Garmin for her as she was coming from a fitbit.By the time she ordered price gone up but she still ordered it. With deal of day it seems they have say 100 at deal price when gone it is gone.

Big_G

Ian, I'm not sure in this case as a few others from my Tri group spotted it today as well and then when I checked I also had the deal.  I did just check on HotUKDeals and they have it on there with a post from yesterday too (pic below).  But that doesn't mean we don't get tailored deals as we probably do....Amazon knows everything!  'm not aware of Bob Pope...but good spot there by you!  I've just checked him out on that webpage you posted.

SHADES

Steve  - well that's good.  I just wanted to see if Hadd had affected your speedwork.


Manchester cancelled.

Ian5

Big G-He is a very fast runner,he won liverpool twice.
Shades-Pity but expected really,can only be a matter of time for London.
10 miles today,legs felt surprisingly good after yesterday's effort,little tightness in the calf when I set off but no issues.

Big_G

7.5-miles done this afternoon so 37.5 for the week.  I'm having a second attempt at a 100-mile week.  I tried it 4 weeks ago but got to the Friday and was tired so needed a rest day, tailing off and finishing on 72 that week.  We'll see if I get there but let's just say that I am already wondering if 100 is a step too far and maybe 85-90 is more achievable as a one off!

mamafox

Big G - That looks a good deal. I have exactly the same HRM-Run strap as Shades posted. I'm pleased with it but there's no way I analyse all the data it gives me. I just wanted something that I could reliably count on for HR stats when my other one started playing up. I think you doubt base training enough on the times when you seem to be getting nowhere let alone having a niggling worry that maybe the data you're getting isn't right!

Shades - I can understand you being unable to do as much work as you were doing at the gym in your own home. It's as much as I can do to keep up my 15min strength/stretch routine every morning. I have actually been sticking to this now for a while and have noticed that I am gradually increasing my plank time. I am learning spanish and to keep my mind off the pain I start the timer then do two spanish lessons on my phone. The other day I got stuck on something but was determined to finish my lesson and for the first time ever went over 6 minutes!

Went out a bit too late this morning so was really hot which played havoc with my HR. Enjoyed my run anyway and was glad I went out. I was thinking of leaving it until this evening but, although cooler, ther are loads of mosquitos/mosquitoes(?) around.

Big_G

MF, I think if I didn't have two working HR monitors already I would have got the bundle, but at this stage I don't think I need a third one as I do have a spare already.  I think/hope my current one is accurate.  It does on occasion spew out spurious data early on in a run, but after it's settled down I think/hope it's accurate.   I like the "learning Spanish" distraction and very well done on 6mins plank!

E mmy

A real shame to hear about Manchester but not unexpected. I wonder what else will be cancelled before the week is out. 

MF: I love the idea of doing a lesson on your phone whilst you're stretching/planking. 

Rcouture

With Manchester supposed to be a couple of weeks after Brighton I think the latter has no chance of happening. I’d be somewhat relieved at this stage. 

Unfortunately I bumped into a guy from work on my run this eve who I barely know but who apparently lives around the corner from mine. He is one of these overly friendly/talkative sorts and soon enough was suggesting we go running together ‘regularly’. I tried subtly to get out of it without blowing him off totally by explaining I was doing MAF training but he didn’t get the message  . Really annoying as he’s just one of these people who just doesn’t get the hint and yet he’s a colleague so I can’t just ignore him. To make things worse he’s posted a message to our work Strava group of which I’m a tenuous member. Happy to be sociable but just not with running!  😭

Anyway 7 miles this eve on my usual route which was in-line with my fastest time yet. Felt I was flying in parts so rest after higher mileage seemed beneficial. 

SHADES

Big G - fair play to you for having another go at an 100mpw.   Really hard to do when not part of a training plan for a race on a defined date.   Anyway if you need a target this might be an idea

https://www.lcwholland.com/

I'm not suggesting you do the whole weekend, which is an Ironman in 3 days, but just the marathon.   As it's in the NL I'm assuming it's flat and fast, perhaps Emmy can advise.   Would be great test of your HR training. Just be careful with your credit card as it's Active.

Emmy/Ian - this marathon any good for you?


mamafox - some days I do nothing apart from run, as the months go on I am less motivated to do other stuff at home.
You are the ultimate in multi tasking, learning Spanish while doing your plank, I'm very impressed.  

Rcouture - well Brighton think of themselves as the 2nd London so they'll hang on as long hoping that they can go ahead in some format I guess.   I think the only other sizeable marathon apart from those two is Yorkshire, which I think is still on?

Good luck with your new running friend.     I've been through this scenario a few times and it's never really worked out and it certainly will be difficult as you're HR training, unless he's a bit slower than you.

Well done on your fastest run too, really showing good results now. 


5 miles this morning, humid and overcast.   Lots of pesky little flies around, annoying as it was so dull I didn't wear my shades and twice they went into my eyes.

E mmy

Shades: that area is quite hilly from memory. It's a beautiful area though. 

An awful nights sleep here so I've taken a test day and will try to rest today. 

Rcouture: I had this too when I was working. You could try the "working with a coach who has specific time zones/paces for you to match"? 

SHADES

Emmy - hilly as Dartmoor or hilly for the NL?

Sorry about the poor night's sleep.   

Same for me, I now do my food shop in the evening and although I don't shop late it just screws up my fairly fragile sleep routine.   I turned off the alarm in the middle of night and decided to not to run but try and sleep later.  Of course I woke at usual time, but did shorter run today.

1SteveMac

Shades - The run felt tougher than when I did it previously, but paces were faster, so either I pushed a bit harder or I just wasn't used to turning my legs over that quickly.

5 miles done this morning.

Big_G

Shades, on paper it looks doable.  This time I've tried to load the week a bit earlier, but trouble is that now I feel quite tired!  I did 10-miles this morning and the last couple were fairly tough.  I did keep HR low and the first half was a decent run, but the last couple of miles I nearly turned the watch off and walked, but I did keep running albeit slowly.  Average HR was 136 so pretty good on paper, but I was tired.  However, if (and it's a big if) I can do 5 this afternoon that will then mean I've "only" got about 48 to do over the remaining 4 days.  12 miles a day split up as 7 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon again seems really doable on paper, but I've come to realise that it's the cumulative affect.  When I did that 82-mile week it was almost by accident and I think in some ways it's easier not to have a target, but to just do what I feel and in that regard I seem to have settled on 60 and I feel okay on that.  I do think 100 is challenging for me and I may not manage it, but maybe possible for a one off.  But it is a challenge of sorts that I would like to tick off one week, but how people do it week in, week out I don't know.  Thanks for that race tip - I'll have a look.

Rcouture, well done on the 7-miler.  It's tough running with other people when you're trying to keep to a particular (easy) pace.  I love my club, I'm on the committee etc etc, but I hardly ever train with them on long runs.  Even before I started HR training there is a particular group that all train too quickly for me, even though I'm quite a bit quicker than most of them in races (a couple of the group haven't broken 4hrs but the group trains at 9min/miles and sometimes a bit quicker).  On the Monday club sessions there are 3 groups  - A (fairly quick), B (the bulk of the group generally), C (slower).  Again based on races and who goes in the group I should probably be in the A group, but training pace wise I should be in the C group, or at the lower end of the B group.  I have mentioned it at committee before that if someone is marathon training the groups are too quick, but it's not an easy message to get across.  Ultimately, it's just easier if I train on my own as I can do the pace I want.  But for the Wednesday speed/interval sessions it doesn't matter about all of that as all the runners just do their best on whatever the session is and they're structured in a way that no one gets left behind (it may be laps, or out-and-backs).

Ian5

Rcouture- Echo what Big G says,in my club most train way too fast for me so I tend not to go too much,if you do run with him if stick to your plan and not get dragged into going faster.
Shades-I'm on holiday then so no good for me.

E mmy

Shades: definitely NL hilly but probably rolling Dartmoor undulations.  I did a marathon from the German border to Maastricht and that was definitely hilly in the first half

Rcouture

Yeah there’s zero chance I jeopardise 2+ months worth of MAF for this guy! It’s more about  working out a tactful way of saying no 😀

SHADES

Steve - might have been more humid yesterday too.   We had 97% here early yesterday.

Big G - 100mpw is challenging for most runners.   Anyway don't flog yourself so that you don't enjoy your running.   It's so much harder when it's not part of a plan/goal, apart from the goal of doing 100mpw.   And you're jumping from 60mpw to 100mpw which is a big increase too.   A low HR can also be a sign of tiredness too.

Ian - never mind, you need your holiday