Shades Marathon Training

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  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    How close do you reckon to  PB in training is good enough to be happy with,so if I run a HM time trial and my PB is 1:24,what would you say is a good run? I'm thinking 2 or 3 minutes is a race improvement? Any thoughts?
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Shades: we're at 95% humidity I've just been told. Yesterday was closer to 98% and it was 27c in the sun. 

    Ian: I'm not an expert but I'd say getting within 2mins of your PB is a good effort?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - impossible to say.   Only you can be the judge of that as to how the pace feels, how strong you feel etc.   Too many variable factors for anyone else to define your performance, heat/humidity/lack of race adrenaline/running alone etc. 

    Good luck.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Emmy - was about 22c here yesterday afternoon and 17c when I went out this morning.

    27c and 98%  humidity, phew.  🥵
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I seen they had been planning that but the first one got delayed bu 2 weeks,looks a good system with small wave starts,no spectators and a closed circuit.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - fast course too, on a tarmac track around the racecourse.

    The half was won in 1:12 and the guy was aged 60.   He is the current WR holder for V55 half marathon.   Still running 100mpw at aged 60.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    There's hope for me yet then! Just had an email re: The Westminster Mile, which I'd assumed had just completely bitten the dust, saying they are exploring options. Rather late given it was supposed to be in May, but still.

    I took a rare Sunday rest day as my body felt quite trashed after the hills yesterday and I've done some rehab and been for a drizzly walk. Achilles was the sorest thing after the run and when I woke up, but couldn't feel it on the walk, but left hammy is very grouchy. Groin's fine though, so fingers crossed it's on the mend now.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I heard about him and his son last year,got the world record in Frankfurt for son and dad marathon,think it was just under 5 hours,and the dad won,imagine running a 2:31 and your 60yr old dad beats you
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Here's a race going ahead. A very strange and unique format. You can start whenever you want after 9am over the course of a week. There's a variety of distances and it's in Belgium.

    https://www.larssie.com/nl-traildesfantomes2020&manufacturer_id=12

    It's in Dutch but a translator might give you the gist
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Emmy-Milton Keynes are doing something similar,think it has an app you can listen to that has turn by turn directions,not sure how it exactly works but not for me really.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that's good news about the Westminster mile, in the autumn I suppose.

    Wonder if it will be a trial for London marathon format?

    Allegedly EA will issue details re forthcoming races this week, I believe they're holding webinars for clubs/RO's too.  

    Emmy - we've had a few races here like that mostly from shorter races whose entrants are local.   I still can't think of that as a race though but a training run over the same course.

    Ian - I remember seeing that photo of father and son, didn't realise it was the same chap.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Only had a short shift in work today so thought I'd give a HM time trial a go as I'd had 2 days off.Went to the park as it's my usual TT location,bit windy but nice temp.Finished my warm up and bad news,watch said low battery,it lasts for a few weeks so I got caught out,decided to carry on and see how long it lasted.My PB(1:24;04) works out at 6.25m or 3.59km,so set out around that pace,first 5km in 19:35 so about 20sec under target,slowed it down a little and the next 2x5km were pretty much spot on target in 39:59,knew I had a bit in the tank still so I was looking good and planned on speeding up for the last 3 miles,then disaster,my watch went,finished on 9.73miles @6.23 pace.Carrying on at that pace would have given me a 30sec PB,but I think i'd have beaten that as I didn't feel like it was getting hard so there is a real positive to take from it.

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that's great running, annoying your watch let you down just when you're doing your TT.  Must have been little distracting too knowing battery was low.

    It must have a lengthy battery time though, I recharge mine at least a couple of times a week.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    7 miles this morning, refreshing change in the weather.  A cool 10 degrees and felt quite fresh, had to wear fingerless gloves and didn't take them off part way through the run as I'd expected to do.   
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Ian5: what a disappointment with your watch :'( 

    Shades: that's a nice temperature. We had 14c but it was very sunny. I managed 5miles with the dogs but if they could have spoken they would have said: give me a rest day, woman! 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Ian, still a great time and the fact it was so consistent and that you feel you could have finished quicker bodes really well.

    We have committee meeting tonight to go over the EA documents regarding training and also our time trial.  I fear it could be a long meeting.  I did speak briefly to Chair over the weekend and he's optimistic about the EA guidance, whereas when I read it I was a bit more pessimistic.  But I think we'll get something sorted tonight, for training at least.  We can obviously supply the hand sanitiser, get the risk assessments sorted and appoint/cajole/persuade/bribe someone to do the Covid Coordinator role.  But on reading it more fully there is something in the guidance that says the venue/environment has to provide a risk assessment - I'm not sure how we can do that on an open road time trial, as the pub won't do it (why would they!) and, well, the "environment" is just a public road.  Maybe EA meant athletics tracks etc regarding that line?  The actual wording is "A venue/ environment must develop a COVID action plan and risk assessment".  How can an "environment" provide a risk assessment?  I don't understand that bit at all, but I think apart from that we can supply a "Covid Secure environment", so maybe that means we can go with unlimited numbers for a time trial?  I'm not sure though.  The other bit of advice in relation to this (in a totally different document, naturally) says "Athletics and Running activity can now take place in unlimited numbers as long as it is within a COVID secure environment".
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Cal - That was an interesting long run you did. I love reading all the different names of the places you actually run through. Didn't realise that an actual Grange Hill existed, just thought it was a made up name for the 80s tv series.

    Shades - I would love a bit of fresh weather. It's like a dustbowl here and far too hot to run unless you leave when it's still dark, as soon as the sun starts climbing the temperature leaps up in bounds.

    Emmy - My dogs would have agreed with yours yesterday. They were trailing behind me after yesterday's forest run which is most unusual. I did point out that they had only themselves to blame as they'd shot off chasing something at one point so were absolutely hanging when they finally caught up with me.

    Ian - That is unbelievable stuff about that father and son team. Wow. Well done on your time trial. How annoying about your watch giving up at a crucial moment. Mine did that during the Barcelona marathon a couple of years ago. Couldn't believe it, spent a couple of kms furiously tapping away at it trying to make it work while zig zagging all over the place as I wasn't looking where I was going  :|

    A pretty good 13k done this morning, actually managed a couple of kms at target HR without having to walk. This was only because those kms coincided with a flattish part of my run mind you. Home, and poached egg on toast on my own whilst analysing my stats and thinking about running. Bliss.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    mamafox - I expect it's quite a common name. There's a Grange Hill tube station on the Central Line, quite a distance from the one I ran up.
    Sorry you're having hot weather. I hate it, personally. Nice satisfying run though.

    Ian, oh that's so frustrating! I guess the consolation is that it wouldn't have been an official PB, but still. I remember my first Garmin dying within sight of the finish of my first marathon (Manchester, of course...that finishing road is very long, mind you). It got replaced with one that had twice as much battery life.

    Shades - snap - 7 for me too and it was lovely out there.
    I had a poor night's sleep. Yesterday some people had a party with very loud music (sounded like a PA rather than a stereo) in a garden behind my house. It went on most of the afternoon and early evening. Fortunately it didn't go on late, but it really stressed me out. I was trying to watch a movie and even with the volume up to max and the fan on I could here the thump thump of the music. I guess the increase in cortisol from the stress made for a restless night (it's little wonder that loud music is used in "enhanced interrogations"). I was awake at 3:40 (this was after waking a few times during the night) so gave up on sleeping, pumped myself full of coffee and was out for a run a bit after 5am.
    I was going to do an easy run around Tooting Common but it was so quiet I felt the urge to do something else. I ran down to Tooting and hit the bottom bit of the Wandle in the direction opposite to which I normally run, after which I ran through Earlsfield, up to Wandsworth Common and around there before heading home.
    I actually felt quite good in terms of energy but I could feel my niggles so I resisted the temptation to run further, even though the weather was perfect and it was still quiet. It was only 6:30ish when I finished so I decided to walk an extra mile, going around the big pond on Tooting Common, as a cool-down. Back for breakfast at 7.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes the battery last for ages,it says 30hrs in full training mode and I don't use it other than running so lasts about 10 days or so,but i'll be keeping track of it now.
    As for the run,while it's disappointing not to have finished I am fine with it,I was under target pace and felt ready to speed up so I know I am well set up.
    Easyjet don't appear to have my return flight on their website now,so looks like they may be cancelling the Sunday flight,I may come back the Monday if that's the case or wizzair have a late flight Sunday scheduled in to Luton,also BA and Icelandair are flying from Heathrow so still options around.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Emmy - that's much better weather for you too, I guess the dogs are not keen on the sun either.

    Big G - exactly your queries on EA's guidance have been queried by a lot of other clubs.   I've looked at the FB page but last time I looked EA have not responded to the queries.

    As usual they've written it based on Track and Field and forgotten about their cash cow, road running.   Just hastily issued, misleading and confusing.  Other queries are, is a risk assessment required for every route.   Health questionnaires and track and trace details for every session or just once for each runner?   Some clubs are just going to stick to 6 runners and then they don't have to bother with the RA and Covid stuff.

    However, I didn't realise until I read the FB conversation that an EA coach or run leader could only take 12 runners, that's a pre Covid rule apparently.

    You can explain it all to me tomorrow.  ;)  


    mamafox - that was a good run today.

    Re watches, I was running a marathon and at 20 miles my Garmin bleeped that the history was full and needed to be cleared down.  My eyesight was not really sharp enough to do that when running and I didn't want to stop.  Marathon had no mile markers as it was 40 laps with lap counters so I just kept checking after each lap with my lap counter to try and stay on target, which I did for 6 min PB.  But that sort of stuff just puts the heartrate up.

    Cal - great run considering you had a stressful time with the neighbour's party and subsequently a poor night's sleep too.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - 30 hours is a long battery life.   You could run a long way in 30 hours  ;)

    Still no flights out of Manchester yet then?   Annoying if you now have to start altering the flights that you've already booked.   EasyJet give 21 days notice (usually), if they've cancelled a flight.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, that's still the bit I don't understand - it's very confusing.  It'll be interesting to see what Chair and the committee say as from where I am coming from, it's still pretty clear that coaching is still only groups of 12, regardless of if it's in a Covid secure environment.  But I think Chair may be reading it differently to me.  I've still no idea about our time trial as a) that's not a coached session but b) although it could be read that "unlimited" is allowed, I personally think if we get, say, 50 turn up all congregating in the pub car park and then the narrow bridge to start, that's too many.  Who knows.  It's one of those that I wish we could do face-to-face, but we can't, although I think Zoom may not be best format for this but it's all we've got.  I just hope everyone has read the documentation as that will be a start - I did send it to everyone on Friday as soon as it was released.  I know for sure that JW (responsible for coaching) and Chair have read it so that's a start.
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Morning all, 

    Along with the England Athletics announcement last week, there was also this government announcement, which includes a list of things which need to be considered when hosting an event, the gathering of spectators seems to be quite a big concern. 

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-phased-return-of-sport-and-recreation/guidance-for-the-public-on-the-phased-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation

    The course

    Event organisers must ensure that pre-start assembly areas, the start line and holding areas are designed so that participants do not need to assemble at the start of the event in a manner which conflicts with social distancing guidelines. Event organisers should consider rolling start times to allow social distancing to be maintained.

    The capacity and density of the participants on the course should always allow for social distancing. Organisers should consider pinch points on the course before, during and after the event and manage them accordingly in align with government guidance on social distancing. Other features such as entertainment should be withdrawn.

    Potential contact points such as the handling of medals, timing chips and numbers should be managed appropriately. Participants should be discouraged from bringing any equipment, baggage, or clothing that is not essential for their participation in the event, and should as far as possible, make their own arrangements for safe storage. Where these need to be stored centrally, only the owner should handle the equipment. If others need to handle it, strict hand hygiene measures should be observed.

    If essential to event safety/participant wellbeing, access to feed and drink stations should be provided in such a way that social distancing can still be observed by officials and participants. Mitigations should be put in place to ensure risks are managed as much as possible in these environments.

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I've understood it the same as you have, i.e. max 12 per leader.  The 12 is only if it's Covid secure, if not Covid secure it's only 6.    I think the 'unlimited' means in a venue, such as a stadium, so a restricted area with everyone having done the health questionnaire and maintaining social distancing too.  I'm sure it doesn't mean for a road run, after all government guidelines are only for a max of 30 outside so how can it be unlimited. 😕

    Tommy - thanks for that.  I read that a while ago and assumed it was issued in readiness for EA to say that permitted events can be allowed to go ahead again.   That's also been written without specification on total numbers so I assume to remain relevant when numbers allowed increases.

    I believe EA are issuing info on forthcoming races this week.   They're doing webinars for race organisers, on 22nd July.




  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Tommy, thanks.  I'm going to presume that our time trial should be classed as an "event" and that we should stick with that government advice.  It may then come down to logistics as the timekeepers may not want to be out that long.  The nature of the course is that it's mainly a loop so in theory we could start people in paced groups (actually would it be better if there was a range of paces in each group, so they get spread out straight away?), and give it say 5 mins between each group.  That would extend the amount of time the timekeepers need to be out, which they may not want.  We'll see what happens this evening.  I am 100% definitely not doing the risk assessments or the Covid Coordinator role....but I do know that Chair has someone in mind for those :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Big G/Shades-I definitely read it as a coached session is 12 max in a secure environment and 6 otherwise.Hopefully late this week we will know what's happening then.
    Shades-They have changed the flight to sold out and it won't be as the flights were still cheap yesterday,so probably going to cancel,I'm not due back in work until Wednesday so will decide whether to stay an extra night or make other arrangements.
    10 miles before work,legs a little sore from yesterday but all good except the wind was against me for the last 2 uphill miles.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Ian - To run that pace solo is a great indicator. No doubt you would have run faster in a race with other people around.
    Shades - Only race planned is Manchester marathon next year, but I will race something before then. Not sure what I'll do with the rest of this year yet!!
    Yes 6:41 is too fast for MP

    I did 6 miles on Friday after work and then 14 miles on Saturday, then had a rest day on Sunday instead. Cut back week done and 41 miles run.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well I already feel sorry for that potential Covid officer.  That's a worse job than being a Health and Safety rep.   ;)
    I suppose he/she will have to attend every training session to collate runner's details unless they register with Covid officer beforehand.  

    Ian - would be nice to stay an extra night and put your feet up, rather than rush home.

    I take it that niggle you had a while ago has cleared up.

    Steve - well I expect time up to Manchester will pass quickly, what with the wedding as well.   I'm sure you'll be able to find a couple of shorter races to do too.

    At last, official notification that my gym is reopening on Saturday.  Luckily I saw that only an hour after details were released.   We have to book in and from 5 days in advance so have booked in Saturday lunchtime, only allowed one hour.  So limited numbers, think it might be 20 maximum for the gym at one time.

    I have lots of work to do to get back to where I was fitness wise 6 months ago.   I was injured for the month before lockdown.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I really don't know how that will work.  One idea I had, in order to avoid a scrum at The Rec car park, is to split the sessions up in advance (say different groups meet at Decoy, The Rec, Stover, Sandygate, Brunel....just as an example) and go off individually from there.  That may be "safer" overall, but how would a Covid officer do their role of collating the info.  As you say, unless people register in advance.  Also, does a risk assessment have to be done for each route....I think it probably does, to make sure no touching of gates etc. 

    I didn't run for 2 days but did a nice 6-miler today.  I have been having some very slight issues with my balance recently (i.e, over the last week or two) and that seemed marginally worse today.  It's hard to explain, but I feel like I want to veer slightly to the right!  It's very odd!  No danger of falling over but it's definitely there.  Maybe I've got a slight cold or something.
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