Shades Marathon Training

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  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    this is what I've seen on the connect website. So looks like it's an entire system outage. 

    I'm guessing it's more like the contamination risk of Hundreds of runners putting their sweaty hands in a box?
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Eh it's daft. I've had races where you pick up your own medals or the medals are in a goody bag. But maybe they don't want people congregating around the medal/goody bag table, I don't know.

    Yeah, bit annoying about Garmin, I had a productive run and wanted to view my stats. Never mind, sure it'll be back in due course.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    MF, that's very interesting.  Now you mention it, I remember you did that at that race.  Do you happen to know the % of max for those ranges?  Or what your max is, and I can work it out from max.  As an aside, did you find you were having to check the watch a lot whilst running or was it quite easy/natural to stay in those zones?

    Ian, good news about your race.

    Shades, I have realised that Davey's new dates are the same weekend as the proposed Weymouth Half that is currently still on.  I'd been keeping my eye on that one but hadn't put it in my diary so hadn't noticed it's the same date until I just double checked.  I'm not sure if it's going to go ahead for all the reasons we've talked about (getting permissions etc) but from what I can see, it looks like a fast course.  It's on the seafront though so it's open to the elements if it's bad weather.  I did email the race a few days ago asking about refunds and they advised not to enter yet, but they're going through the guidance.  It's a race of 1500 so fairly large.  I don't know Weymouth that well but I wonder if some of it along the sea front may be quite narrow, and it'd be virtually impossible to deter spectators I'd have thought as about half of it is right by the beach.  If it's nice weather, of course people are going to be nearby.

    I had planned a run this morning but just wasn't quite feeling it when I woke up, so decided to not run this morning.  I may go out a bit later on, or I may just leave it for today.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    But more runners will hang around looking for their medals than if they just collect one off a table, they could tape them to a bottle of water.

    But most races will now post out race numbers as collecting on the day won't be feasible especially if you ask runners not to arrive early and they're in waves.

    Emmy - I've got a message saying site down for maintenance now.   Site has been sticky the last few days.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I don't think mamafox knows her MHR.   This was from my Marco that I posted on a spreadsheet.   I'd have to be at peak fitness to keep my HR that low for the first half and even fitter to do the last few miles at that HR.

    Overall it as a slight negative split forecast by Marco about 90 seconds I think



    I might look at Weymouth Half, 1500 is quite a big field.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I fear I may have put you off Plym Trail a bit after our chat on Tuesday  ;)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks Shades.  I can make use of that table.  Regarding Plym Trail, I really don't like the course.  When I entered the double I later thought "why have I done that!?".  I've just looked at my stats and the best I've done is 3:45 on that course - I remember having to put a lot of effort at one to get 3:59....and then I was so tired I DNSd day 2!  Regarding Weymouth I would like to race a half as a good test to see where I am fitness wise as I think my higher mileage along with loads of 10-milers is probably quite good Half training.  I think in many ways the Half is my preferred distance too, and I've not done Weymouth before.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - Plym Trail is a deceptively tough course and a very tough double, not that I've ever done the double  :)

    Yes, worth ditching a marathon to run a good half marathon, that would be most valuable to you right now.

    I'll give race organisers a few days to digest the new rulings and then I think I'll start looking for future races  :)

    What happened to your pet seagull chick?   
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, Weymouth's email back to me is below, just for info, so I'm getting notifications from their Facebook page now.
    "Good morning,

    England Athletics have just published their guidelines and we are working through this. Our normal terms and conditions are no deferrals and a 50% refund if 4 weeks notice is given. Under the circumstances I would suggest you wait to enter whilst we work things out as we still have capacity for more entries. 

    Watch our social media for updates and information".

    Regarding the chick, I think it's moved back up the road to the house that it originally fell from.  I can hear it squeaking occasionally but can't actually see it, and I'm far enough away now so the adults aren't too interested in me, thankfully!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - thanks for that re Weymouth.   

    Good news on the chick, especially as the adults are no longer targeting you. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I see Weymouth is the weekend before Plym Trail, so you could do both  ;)

    I was hoping to do the Dornafield 10k but it's been cancelled!   Any chance that decision might change?
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Shades - Yes, those horseflies are horrible things, one of the worst things about summer. They seem to prefer shady areas as when I'm out in the open sun they don't seem to be around so much. We get some almost prehistoric size ones on the horses sometimes, I mean I'm talking the size of a finger and I'm not exagerrating.

    Emmy - No, thankfully i did not get bitten. I am petrified of being stung by them. Not so much for the sting which hurts but then goes unlike a bee or wasp sting, but I seem to get a bad reaction to their bites. A couple of years ago one got me on the leg and my leg swelled up so much it was like a tree trunk.

    Big G - Shades is right, I am a bit vague about my MHR. I must have had it at the time to put in for the Marco info but can't for the life of me find it anywhere. I really should do a MHR test but I keep making excuses, I'll Google it and then see. The other day I was coming to the end of my run, had done 8k steady then decided on the spur of the moment to sprint the 300m of flat road that I was on. It was very hot too and my max came out as 176 and I couldn't possibly have gone any faster or carried on much longer. Do you think that would count as my MHR now? Anyway, with regard to your other question, no I didn't find I was glued to my watch, the ranges seemed to come together quite naturally. I had to make myself slow down a bit at times (a novel experience for me) to keep within range and at the end I just went for it but overall it didn't feel like something to struggle to keep within.
    That's a relief the seagull has moved on, you can continue to enjoy your breakfasts now!

    After an endless stretch of run/walks today I had one of those breakthrough moments which makes it All Worthwhile. I only did my basic 10k but I was cruising and ran nearly all of it keeping easily within my HR max. A definite improvement for whatever unfathomable reason. Happy days.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Sorry for confusion Shades!  Weston Super Mare Half is the same day as Davey’s, but I was more interested in Weymouth anyway, although had both in the back of my mind. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    MF, cross post.  This is in the P&D book about getting max HR, so maybe try that and see what happens if you're interested (it's not that pleasant!).  I think Shades mentioned something very similar to this method too.  Some say you shouldn't really add 2 or 3 beats to what you see on the watch, but I did (as per P&D below).  I have read somewhere else in the past that if you go hard up a hill, your HR will be higher than going all out on the flat.  Maybe 180ish could be about your max from what you were saying though?

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Just seen this about the Garmin issues from their Facebook page, posted at 13:33....
    We are currently experiencing an outage that affects Garmin Connect, and as a result, the Garmin Connect website and mobile app are down at this time. This outage also affects our call centers and we are currently unable to receive any calls, emails or online chats. We are working to resolve this issue as quickly as possible and apologise for this inconvenience.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    It must have been a bit cock up to take everything down like that. Annoying...
    Anyway, my run this morning was OK even if I can't upload it yet. Another 8  -  I hadn't any firm plans regarding the run - I was thinking it was likely to be a recovery or easy run, but fate intervened. I'd given my Epics a bit of a scrub yesterday as they were dirty from running on the dirt paths, and they hadn't quite dried when I came to put them on. So I opted for my rather neglected Peg Turbos. I've only worn these a few times and they're nice, snappy shoes, but as they're not flyknit, they rub a bit, and also make my left foot ache for some reason.
    First mile came in a bit quicker than my normal first mile, and second was quicker still, so I ended up doing a progression run, finishing at marathon pace (which felt fast today, given the lack of recent speed work). I did a recovery mile to finish.
    Body didn't feel amazing, but stuff seemed to hurt a bit less than yesterday - I think my various bits and pieces prefer to go fast, aside from the groin, but I got away with that this time.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I don’t like spreading unsubstantiated rumours, Cal, but some people are wondering if they’ve been hacked. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - it's annoying re Garmin website as I feel it's unfinished business not getting all the stats done for the day.   Actually I've got all mine except elevation.   Sometimes I look at HR per mile but not often, unless it's an ILTHR run.

    Mamafox - a few years ago in a very hot and dry marathon...in Wales would you believe  ;). many of us were bitten by horseflies.  I had about 5 bites I think and when I woke the next morning I thought I would have to go to A&E as it felt like my leg was going to burst.  One bite was on my shin and just not the flesh and skin there to swell so it was tight like a drum and so sore.  But managed to reduce swelling with lots of ice.  Horrible.

    Re your MHR, I agree with Big G that probably 180ish, if you were tired then maybe even a little higher.  

    So pleased to hear you had one of those fab runs today 😁

    Big G - I thought maybe it might be a good upgrade that had gone wrong.

    When MFP was hacked, my friend said that she didn't mind the hackers knowing her credit card details, but she'd rather they didn't know her weight.  :o
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I've seen that rumour too, Big G.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Big G - Thank you for that MHR info. That's very clear to understand. I've got a hill in mind so the next time I go there I'll measure out 600m of it so I know where to stop.
    Sounds fun :#

    Shades - Your horsefly bite saga sounds awful. My whole leg was exactly as you described. I've had bites since and had variations on the swelling, pain and itchng but nothing as awful as when my whole leg blew up.

    I'm glad you've all being talking about the Garmin site being down. I thought it was a problem with our internet at first as our wifi had also cut off. Was looking to see if a mouse had bitten through a wire again  :|
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Mamafox - good luck with the MHR test.  The good news you only have to do it once.  And don't do it when you're tired as hard to raise the HR then.

    Those horseflies bit me through my clothes, they are evil.
  • On the plus side for Fetch simply plug garmin into computer and use upload fit file then select file from watch on folder system ;) Same works for strava although i am less bothered there.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Keith, I did see that article a bit earlier.  Obviously very serious for Garmin as it's basically taken everything down!

    I went out and did my LT test at around 8:45pm this evening.  Ooooph.  Basically, it's a good warm up, and then run as far as you can in 30-mins.  There are different approaches but then it's either the average HR for a) the last 20mins or b) the last 10 mins, which is then your LT HR.  

    I saw some advice to turn auto-lap off on my watch (so no mile splits), and then press the lap button after 10-mins and stop the watch after 30-mins.  I did this session on my 0.5 mile out-and-back route so I did slow at either end as before.  But I think this is a good test and the two splits I mention are below.
    1) 1.52m - 10:00(6:35/m) 166/176bpm 153cal 9.12/9.93mph
    2) 3.03m - 20:01(6:37/m) 179/185bpm 335cal 9.07/9.75mph

    I managed 4.55 miles and average HR in last 20-mins was 179bpm and also I know the average HR in last 10-mins was 181 (this is 91.8% and 92.8% of max).  Not sure which one I should use?  But they're both very similar.

    McMillan Running have an estimate based on my recent 5k (well, actually I put 19:45 in as I feel I can do that in a race).  From McMillan it was 6:49min/mile whereas from this test the average of my last 20mins was 6:37min/mile and last 10mins was 6:39min/miles.  So you can see I did slow very marginally, but I am considering this to be a very valid test as I don't feel I dropped off that dramatically apart from in the last 30-secs or so.

    This was extremely tough to do!  It was a bit odd working to a time rather than a distance and at the end I was hanging on and totally knackered - even my throat was hurting, presumably from the gasping!  It was a very slow 1-mile cool down afterwards.

    What I'm supposed to do with this information I'm not entirely sure at the moment, but at least I have it now.  I think I can now work out different training HR or pace zones for different types of sessions for the 20% part of 80/20.  Anyway, 1k splits are below, so any thoughts welcome :) 

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - thanks for that link.   Of course we feel it's crucial for us but reading about the pilots not being able to plan their routes is probably more serious in the short term.

    Big G - well done, that must have been hard doing your LT test but you've some great stats now to work with.
    I would go with 180 as a nice round number.  

    I'm impressed you were faster than McMillan's estimate, his paces are not usually generous in any way.

    As you did the test on a flat route you now have your LT pace as well.   So when you choose to do some faster stuff you can either do by HR, say LT less x bpm, or by pace LT less x time.
    Does MF have some sessions in his book using your LT test results?


    6 miles today, 17 degrees and 96% humidity when I went out.   It did feel very humid, lots of sweating today.

    I'm looking forward to the gym reopening tomorrow and I'd told myself I need to ease myself back into gym and classes gradually, so I'd planned maybe two gym visits in the first week.   However, I seem to have booked gym Saturday, Pilates on Monday, gym on Tuesday and on Wednesday Gentle Circuits followed by a gym session.   I'm really not sure how we're going to do socially distanced circuits, I guess we won't move around but each have a selection of equipment for our own use.   However, not a problem at the moment as I appear to be the only one to have enrolled in the Circuits class so far.   Some of the usual crowd I suspect will have been shielding due to health issues so may not come back to the leisure centre yet.

    And the library reopens on Monday too.   :)
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    A lot of education place got hit by ransomware attacks yesterday too. I was having connectivity issues myself (router etc was fine but some pages weren't loading at first try) so it seems there were quite a lot of problems across the 'net.
    Anyway, I've now gone the route of manually uploading form my watch to Strava so I've got the Strava data at least.
    Another dodgy sleep - people laughing in the garden (next door I think) so I resorted to ear plugs. They actually helped a fair bit and I was able to fall asleep quite easily but the issue was I couldn't have my window wide open due to the noise so I couldn't get my room to cool down overnight and I was awake before 4 again. Oh well, when life gives you lemons... So out for another early run. I did a similar route to Tuesday, going down through Tooting (Fishponds Road and past the cemetary...there are so many cemetaries in my neck of the woods), down Plough Lane and along the Wandle to Earlsfield, but instead of going up the hill to Wandworth Common, I went back down Garratt Lane and back up Fishponds again, then home via the edge of Tooting Common. Legs were still bouncy so I did some informal tempo stretches, around 9-9:30min/mi. I did try pushing the pace at one point around 8:30ish but groin said no. (It wasn't a painful twinge, more of a gentle warning which I heeded immediately. Don't want to be back on the injury bench).
    Anyway, I picked up a few Strava segment PBs and the one little road loop where I was 9th on the leaderboard (women) I moved up to 4th, so that was nice.
    I don't feel too bad afterwards, especially as I did a progression yesterday. The slow easy runs seem to put more stress on hammy and achilles than the faster runs.
    I will likely have a rest tomorrow and do a longish run Sunday, but I'm very close to the end of GVRAT (Sunday weather looks much better than tomorrow, though, so I think I'm going to be patient).
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Shades, yes, in the 80/20 book there are some sessions and you can base those on HR.  I haven't fully read all the plans yet, but there is an associated website that if you put your LT HR in it gives you training zones for things like tempos, 400s etc.  So I think I may base any sessions I do on HR when I get to them as that will probably stop me doing the sessions too quickly.  But I'll figure all that out when I get there as if I do end up doing a few races in August/September I may then not do that many sessions.

    Cal, well done on the Strava PBs!

    I did 4.5 miles this morning just to turn the legs over after last night.  Nice and easy and enjoyable, although humid.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Shades - I'm planning my max HR run for next week. Will this interfere with my base training though? Not that I'm looking for an excuse not to do it or anything....
    Bet you're going to love getting back to your gym work. Interesting to see how they will get round the issue of several people touching machines, equipment etc. I know this was a big problem for us in school. We had separate groups of children but it still meant not sharing toys, games etc between groups and disinfecting everything frequently.

    Big G - The only comment I have to make on that is that you are extremely fast B)

    Cal - That sounds a really good run for you. Funny having something called Plough lane in the middle of London.

    I think I'm having a mini purple patch and long may it last. Another absolutely fab run this morning, a 16k route that I discovered during lockdown and this morning I managed to run nearly all of it. Result.
    I also worked out my 600m hill section for my (possible) MHR test. I will have about a 14 min run to get there which should be enough to warm up and then it's not too far from home if anything awful happens.
    Passed a group of hunters who  were working on their shelter ready for the start of the season. A couple of cheery greetings and a generous offer to have a 'drop' of red wine with them which I politely declined. I hadn't finished my run and it would have played havoc with my stats. Bit early too.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - bad luck with the neighbours making a racket.   We've got some neighbours here too that have a couple of parties a week, they don't play music just talk and laugh all night, they've still been going a couple of mornings when I've gone out for my run.   I have to shut my bedroom window tight to avoid hearing them, but I choose to do that rather than than appreciate the cooler air.   Negative side of summer as they have their windows wide open.   Anyway they're only tenants and I expect on furlough but I know someone who is going to tip off their landlord about this and other issues so I doubt they'll be able to renew their tenancy.

    Big G - well you have a good choice of what to do after your initial BT phase is over, I hope it will be a few races so you can assess the progress you've made.

    SHADES said:

    I was hoping to do the Dornafield 10k but it's been cancelled!   Any chance that decision might change?
    You might have missed this I posted for you yesterday  :smile:


    mamafox - re your MHR test, preferably when you're not tired/stressed so after a rest day perhaps.   You also need to be in the right mood, feeling fresh and with a bit of fire in your belly. 😁  But it only takes a few minutes, thankfully.   If you suffer from asthma I would suggest taking your inhaler with you just in case. No, won't affect your training although you might struggle to get HR back down to BT afterwards if you go for a couple of easy miles afterwards.

    Yes, will be interesting to see how it works out in the gym.   I think there's going to be lots of cleaning.  Some of the classes are full, but that is with reduced numbers, think they've reduced class size to half of previous capacity.   Gym is 20 people.

    So good to hear you had another cracking run today.   Definitely a bit early for a drink, but kind of the hunters to offer.  What are they hunting, deer, boar?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I don't think it's likely to change in terms of it being a "proper" race.  But we're seeing how the Virtual Totnes 10k goes and if that's deemed a success, it may turn into "virtual" event.  But I suppose it's an ever changing situation, although at the last committee meeting what I said above were the thoughts at that time.  If anything changes I'll let you know though.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - thanks for that.   Not interested in a virtual event, it's not the medal I want but the race.   I suppose probably not really convenient for the caravan park anyway this year.

    I'd looked on the Trotters website last week and it was looking promising, then when I looked this week it was cancelled  :s


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