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Shades Marathon Training
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mamafox, that's very encouraging - I hope it lasts.
Shades, I also got my refund for the Frankfurt flights so I'm pleased about that too. I do still have the hotel for that one, but I'll cancel it if Frankfurt cancel their race, as they're expected to do.
What this all means for my training is probably I'll continue doing with what I'm doing (plus add some smaller races and/or some 80/20 sessions), do a few smaller marathon events in the UK but not for a fast time as such, and maybe try and do some local/club races for shorter distances if they start getting the go ahead, in order to test the fitness. Then if things start opening up next Spring, put a plan in place to try and get some longer runs done in the lead up to a particular/target race.
Regarding my LT test, there is a bit of debate about what LT should be in terms of percentage of Max HR. Is mine too high, do you think? Maybe I should rein it back a bit and go with McMillan's pace estimate, which I'm guessing will be more around the 80-85% max. I followed Fitzgerald's test exactly, so I'm not sure at the moment.
Well that's good news for you re Warsaw, decision made for you. Perhaps there might be a deferral option, unlikely though.
And good news re Lufthansa refund too. I still have my hotel booking for Frankfurt too, I have to cancel 28 days before to get a refund for the hotel.
Your LT is moveable, the higher it is then the fitter you are. So there's no correct or incorrect % of MHR. Also some will refer to MHR when in fact they're using WHR calculations but calling it MHR. Even Garmins etc refer to MHR but calculate using WHR. A WHR % would show a lower figure. You'd need to check how McMillan calculated that 80- 85 %, that is a very low %, it has to be WHR. I've run the second half of a marathon at 88%, no way could I run at a higher % than my LT.
My 10k PB was run at about 90% and I think that was about my LT at the time.
Judging by your recent 5k you're in good shape.
Rest day for me today as I've got the white star lockdown frolic tomorrow and hoping for 20miles in the morning and maybe a few more in the afternoon.
Just looking further at McMillan and his notes on the LT estimate say "Your vLT is an estimate of the velocity (or pace) at your lactate threshold. Research shows that your vLT is the most important determinant of running performance and training at or around your vLT (what we call Stamina training) is critical to racing faster".
And in another document on his site he says that his LT is based on "one hour race pace", which is obviously different to what I did, as I did 30-mins, which is what Fitzgerald says (screenshot below and I smiled at his "The downside of this test is that it's rather painful" comment. I concur!). I'll just have to do a tempo session at some point I think and see how it feels.
In that long RW BT thread you'll probably come across posts about defining LT from Hadd tests and we used to also say race pace that could be held for just about an hour was our LT pace. Although your LT test yesterday was hard it wasn't in a race. In a race you could have held that pace/HR for longer than the 30 minutes you achieved yesterday.
For training purposes you're not going to train at LT pace but less 20 or 30 BPM so a couple of bpm will make little difference.
Big G-Well done on doing the LT test,it's very hard running by yourself at speed as we all know.
Cal-I have similar neighbours who insist on keeping us awake every week or so.
Wasn't sure whether to do it but I decided to do the final of the mob match for the club tonight.5k done in 18:28 so a big 1 second quicker than last month,felt a lot harder for some reason but got it done anyway.
Has your OH entered the 10 mile race in August?
7 miles this morning, very humid, 96% and 17 degrees with a 'feels like' of 20 degrees. Some light drizzle and a breeze although they didn't help much.
Saw 2 green woodpeckers, an adult and a youngster feeding on a lawn. The adult flew into the woods on seeing me but the young woodpecker wasn't so keen to give up his breakfast. After 5 times of flying and landing in front of me he worked out I wasn't going away he attached himself to a small tree until I'd gone past. Closest I've ever been to a woodpecker, really beautiful.
Gym today 😍
Ian, sounds like a family competition is coming on nicely
Turns out the chap who said 77% was his LT was actually talking about VT (ventilatory threshold), which is very different, so I'll totally ignore any notion of 77% for LT as that is definitely wrong. I'll stick with my LT data and work out the HR zones from there for the sessions I do, and see how I get on. If the tempos feel too tough for the first attempt, I can just ease back a bit on the second one.
As for me, I've been faffing this morning so haven't gone out for a run yet even though I was up at more or less the usual time...
Just so you're aware, his plans have a weekly percentage for each week and for the 18 week marathon plan, weeks 1-9 are regularly about 90% low intensity (week 4 for example is 94%). Weeks 10-18 have some 80% low intensity in there, but also a couple of weeks slightly more than that. So what I'm saying is, the message I think is it's "at least 80% easy". If it's 90/10, that's fine too.
In practice, I work in distance and know I run roughly 6 times a week. So I think for me I'll just keep it really simple initially and just do one session a week whether it be a tempo or 5x1k or 4x8-mins, and factor in any races I may do. So if I'm racing a Half that week I won't do any other speed work that week (in fact, strictly speaking based on 60 miles a week, a half will take me over the 20%). If I'm racing a 5k or 10k, I could maybe do another session if I felt I wanted to. Or if parkrun comes back, do a session on the Wednesday and then "race" a parkrun on the Saturday. But everything else will be low intensity. This is just what I've picked up but I'm no expert, as I haven't started it myself yet.
One other thing, Fitzgerald's 80/20 book is very popular but he freely admits he got a lot of this from a chap called Stephen Seiler who did the initial ground work on this method.
Here is a long interview with Seiler, which I found quite interesting. Also a short TED talk.
http://www.bradbeer.com.au/podcast-episode-172-dr-stephen-seiler-sports-scientist-polarised-training/
https://youtu.be/MALsI0mJ09I
Big G - I've only seen the Great Spotted once, a few weeks ago, but heard them thousands of times. Very elusive. Much easier to see the green woodpeckers as they feed where there's grass so see them quite often on verges/banks/lawns.
VT ! I'm not even going to look that up. How complicated should our running be?
I can't imagine that you'll feel the first work sessions too tough, surely you're going to start at something like 30bpm lower than LT to start with.
Rcouture - well I've read the info on the gym setup carefully. They are being very strict, the managers there are strong assertive women so there'll be no messing. I did read this morning that no water fountains available, I always take a full bottle and top up in the gym, but no topping up today. I believe that we aren't allowed inside the premises until the allotted time. No changing and no showers, I don't use them anyway as I walk home straight after and it's not too far. Discouraged from using lockers, I prefer to use a locker, but will take only essential stuff today, so can manage without. Lots of cleaning to do, will use that as my recovery in between sets.
Keith, it's really not good news for Garmin!! As a casual observer, it makes me wonder about their backup and reliance strategies etc!
I eventually went out for 7.5 miles this morning and had a nice run out. It was raining from the start but as it was fairly warm, the rain was refreshing.
Keith - you've got very keen on the walking lately.
Have you any running events planned for the rest of the year, Enigma perhaps?
So enjoyed being back at the gym, everything organised with military precision. Arrived at leisure centre had to wait outside, while waiting the system was explained to us. Then at 2 minutes before the hour we were allowed in, swipe membership cards then straight to the gym. Changing rooms all taped off, no entry allowed.
In news articles I'd seen gyms with workout spaces taped off but we didn't have that. Equipment mostly where it was before but some that are too close together, such as treadmills and rowing machines, you can only use every other machine to maintain SD.
Lots more cleaning stations and instructed to clean everything after use, normal for me and some others but now have to clean dumbbells too. 20 people in the gym and we're all smiley and polite, I think all grateful to be back. So very relaxed atmosphere and plenty of space and no waiting to use equipment. At 10 minutes to go we're given a time warning then dead on the hour all guided out of the building, they have a one way system so we leave the building at the rear.
But OMG I have lost so much fitness, far more than I expected. I knew I'd have to lower the weights but for some I didn't realise how much. I did 4 sets of sumo deadlifts with lighter weight, struggled a bit with form not with weight. After that I went to do bicep curls and after the first set both of my hamstrings went into spasm. Later I did 4 sets on the two adductor machines and I could only manage with 40kg and 35kg reduction of weight from what I'd been doing before.
Apparently I'm not the only one. Some of the swimmers that came to use the fast lane had to sit on the side and take a rest they'd lost so much fitness.
Walked home, legs are tired, might have some interesting DOMs in the next couple of days.
@keith: I saw that article this afternoon. A friend working in cyber security predicted it on Thursday evening. There's 10million being spoken of to release the data. The issue with garmin Is that they have such a wide landscape, it'll be hard to pinpoint the weakness or entry point precisely.
Reading over a few bits today, IT struggled to get a handle on the issue as they couldn't disconnect the pcs that were remotely connected via VPN and were reliant on the employees themselves to do it when they came online. It lost them valuable hours. There'll definitely be lessons learned from this for sure.
Shades: great news about the gym and how strict they were. Did you need to wear a face mask in the gym?
I did the white star lockdown frolic today as a team. It was a nice way to get my 20miler done and I felt a lot better than last week. Managed 20miles and then a 3k walk later on which was nice.
Is Windermere marathon still going ahead?
Emmy - definitely a better way to do your 20 miler.
No we don't have to wear masks here in the gym, thankfully. Nor entering the leisure centre, they have screens in the reception area.
Shades-I'm surprised you didn't need a mask to go to the studio as technically ot is an enclosed indoor area I guess? Good you are back at it,its a different fitness to running so imagine you hadn't ran for 5 months then started again.
Nice run again tonight,usual loop,daughter has come home for a couple of days,we haven't seen her since GC in january,and she wants to go for a run tomorrow so I will run and meet them on the wirral way and run with them,means I will do 18 altogether then we are out for an evening meal so should be a good day.
I've not managed a run this morning as we're heading to Germany for the day to see friends. It'll be a very low mileage day
Enjoy the day with your daughter, Ian. And Emmy, enjoy your day too
Gyms are exempt, thankfully, as I couldn't exercise in a mask. We don't have to wear masks in enclosed indoor areas in England otherwise you in your job and all office workers would be wearing them too. Shops, public transport, indoor shopping centres, banks, libraries and takeaways. Gym is by appointment only and if you're not booked in they won't let you in the door, far more social distancing than in the shops. I haven't been shopping for a few days but I've heard that SD is disappearing fast especially now with compulsory wearing of masks. IMHO a much higher risk now with half the people fiddling/touching/removing their masks than the situation before when we had stricter SD.
No surprise now about the quarantining being reinstated for travellers from Spain. Very tough on the holiday industry etc but I'm amazed that holidaymakers are cross and indignant about it, everyone knows booking an overseas trip was a risk. The last couple of weeks you could see it developing in Spain, the ambulance service in Barcelona was at breaking point then.
I think the transport minister Shapps is himself on holiday in Spain, according to a press report
Emmy - you deserve a day off running.
I was expecting some DOMS this morning and I wasn't disappointed, not too bad, hamstrings and adductors the worse. I had planned 10 miles to take me to a nice round 50 miles this week but I wasn't sure I'd be able to manage it as I knew my legs were low on glycogen. Nice morning, thankfully fresher than I'd expected as my flat felt warm. I had a circular route planned that I could cut shorter in several places, first 4.5 miles flat, then I came off the main road and at 5.5 miles I had the last chance to shorten the route to 9 miles. I decided not to do that although that extra mile is 0.6 of a mile uphill and 0.4 downhill, but I ran that section OK. But when I got to 8 miles my legs ran out of glycogen and felt like the last couple of miles in a marathon but I managed it. Adductors are sore, I feel like I'd been trying to do the splits. I'm so grateful I decided yesterday not to do any work on my calf muscles otherwise I'd be truly crocked.
I will cancel gym on Tuesday, as I have a session booked on Wednesday after circuits. I think Pilates tomorrow might be a struggle with my sore legs. Just need to get through the first week of back at the gym and then shouldn't be too bad.
Well done on the 20, Emmy.
After a rest day yesterday (I walked 2.6 miles but that was it) I was up early for another assault on the hills. Today's mission was to find one called Hell Hill (informally, I think...it's not listed as that on the map) before heading over to Crystal Palace for more hill nastiness. But of course, I went wrong. I'd studied the map and knew I had to run from Norwood to Dulwich and go right/left/right to bring me out onto the right road...but when I went left I found myself in Dulwich Village, outside the park (which was still locked at that early hour) so I knew I'd gone wrong somewhere. (Turns out the road where I should have gone right has a curve, so I'd followed it around and then turned right, missing the turn I should have taken). I circled back to see where I'd gone wrong but still couldn't find the turn, so I took the road behind Dulwich Park and head on up. I should say that I don't know the area as well as some other parts, but I did go to Junior School (40-odd years ago) in Dulwich and had friends there, so I had a rough idea of where I was. Then I found myself outside a pub, now derelict, sadly, where I used to go with my dad when I was a kid after walking in the woods opposite. (I should note that the pub had a beer garden where kids were allowed, but my dad did let me drink shandy).
So I decided to go up through the woods. Which was in fact a hill, but not the hill I was looking for. I knew it would get me somewhere in the vicinity of Crystal Palace so I headed as straight as I could, until I go to a bit where I had a choice of dead end (blocked off railway tunnel - it did used to be a railway line at one point and I think the pebbles and sleepers were still there when I was little, but they're long gone now), locked gate or steps. I walked up the steps. I tried running up at first but my knee wasn't happy with that so I just hiked up them. I got to a road and looked for the CP transmitter. Couldn't see it at first but felt I should go left, and after a little while I spotted it through the trees.
I came out at the top of the park so the plan was to cut through the park and then go back to Fox Hill, the steep hill I ran up for the first time last week. The problem was I couldn't find a gate on that side of the park. I ran down the road next to the park and the first gate I found was still padlocked, but just after that I spotted a little opening which went through some trees and I made my way into the park, just near the bottom stretch of the parkrun course. I had thought I might do a lap, but I was on 9 miles already and I'd not planned on doing more than 16 so I thought I'd best just run past the dinosaur lake and on to Fox Hill.
Fox Hill felt even harder this week - it really is a bastard. Got a Strava segment PB, though, so there's that.
Then I circled back around (down the road next to Fox Hill) and on to Stambourne Woodland Walk where I have a Strava trophy, for an assault on that. Apparently a bit of that is 18% but it doesn't feel as bad as Fox Hill - still hard work though. I did push through there and moved up to 6th fastest woman.
There was one bit of exploring left. I'd wanted to check out Beaulieu Heights, the park under the Croydon Transmitter, which I'd run past on my previous runs. I was expecting an actual park, since it does have a park gate, but instead got more woodlands with trails. And holy crap it's steep! I was heading downhill for this so I was going gently until I hit a load of steps cut into the path, and decided I would walk down these because I'm not Killian bloody Jornet. (Looking on the Strava map, this bit actually hits 21%, so that was definitely the right move).
I came out on the road I expected to and then turned right and up Cypress Road, which was the 15%er I'd run down rather unhappily last week. Going up it was no picnic either - it felt just as bad as Fox Hill, probably because, while it's not quite as steep, it goes on a lot longer. Not sure why it isn't called Cypress Hill, because it certainly is that (perhaps the rappers have a copyright on the name).
I opted to brave the 12% Grange Hill downhill - good practise and it's not too long - then down the through the Lawn (10% downhill through the woods, but seems a bit easier on trail than pavement).
From there I took the road along to Biggin Wood, through there (which is up and down but mostly up), then along Covington Way which goes along the bottom of Norwood Grove. I decided I wasn't going to attempt an assault on Gibson's Hill as I did last week, as hamstrings were shot (the left one with the high ham tendinopathy was aching pretty badly) but I still had to run up the hill at the end of Covington Way (another one that hits 10% at its steepest point), after which it was all downhill or flat.
I hit 16 miles on Tooting Common and decided that was enough and I'd walk it in from there.
Not having access to Garmin, I can't check the elevation in metres, but Strava made it over 1200 feet. I take that with a pinch of salt as Strava always overestimates, but I think it's safe to assume I got around 300m of climb on that run.
After an Epsom Salt bath my legs don't actually feel that bad - can't feel high hammy while I'm sat down - when it's really bad, even sitting is uncomfortable, so I guess that's a good thing. I feel pretty tired in a general sense, but hardly surprising, that.
Well done on your run Shades, although the last couple of miles in particular sounded painful.
I did 10.5 miles this morning. According to the forecast it was reasonable humidity but I found it very sweaty. I did quite enjoy the run out though, which takes me to 60 miles again - I've averaged just over 60 miles a week for 13 weeks now, so I'm pleased about that.
Regarding new week I'm due a cut back week so I may do slightly less. Also I'm hoping to give our club's virtual 10k a crack next weekend. Off of a 19:45 5k McMillan gives a challenging 41:00, so if I'm anywhere near that I'll be delighted and I'll be going out at that pace. I'm going try and do it on a lapped course with with less severe turns than my 5k course which should help a bit. I need to try and get in the right frame of mind for it, like I did that 5k - I felt that was almost like a proper race, so I need to try and feel similar if I can. Trouble is, 10k is an awful distance to race, in my humble opinion