Shades Marathon Training

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  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Ian - Great mileage, how are you feeling after the 70 mile weeks??
    Big G - Interesting test, P&D state LT pace is 1 hour race pace. But there are so many different interpretations of the same terms in running, eg. tempo run!!

    Anyway, I did 8 miles with 3 at MP (6:38/42/42) on Thursday. 15 on Saturday and 6 on Sunday (9:19 for 123 bpm, so under HADD of 125!). That was about 45 miles for the week. Today was 10 miles with 6*800m and 4*200m, reps were 3:02/02/03/02/2:58/2:58 for the 800s and 40/41/39/39 for the 200s. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Steve, yeah, maybe it's sensible to stick with one approach and go with it?  I.E, if I'm going with 80/20, stick to his definition of LT, and in turn his definition of tempo runs etc?  I know I did it exactly as he described and had nothing left at the end, anyway.  Yes, tempo run is described in many different ways as you suggest!

    A bit sluggish out of bed again this morning.   Emmy, I have definitely got something about me too, with quite a lot of sneezing going on, so I've been taking my sprays again.  I didn't run yesterday and it's strange that the old legs seem to feel worse (not better) after a day off!  But I went out and did my hilly 7.5 mile route and enjoyed it.

    I have been in touch with a local running club (Yeovil) who stage a very fast, 5K summer series and is my PB course from 2018.  The series has been decimated this year obviously but I was wondering if the September one may be on, or if it's a definite "no" (all others in the series have been cancelled, but September's is still on the site, although currently closed for entries).  They replied saying they're meeting tomorrow via Zoom to discuss it, and they'll let me know.  If it's on, I'm hoping to do it.  It's the Wednesday after Weymouth Half (if that goes ahead) and before Plym Trail Marathon so in theory it could end up being 3 races in a week.....or it could just end up being the one.  We'll see.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Not sure if this video will work, but here is the latest from New Forest marathon.
    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=291137798626057

    Basically, they still think they've got everything in place, and talk about a traffic light system to start the race, and have 4 "bubbles".  Police have said okay, and they're working with other bodies to get the final go ahead, and sounds like they're still waiting on the Forestry Commission.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve-I've been fine with them,I've followed each of them with a cut back to 60,maybe next cycle I will try continuous 70's
    Today was a crappy run,plan was 20 but I just felt drained,done 11 and called it a day,wind was really strong though so that probably sapped a lot of my motivation.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I googled that and see it won 'NME worst lyrics ever' award  :disappointed:


    Steve - yes, I've seen the same re LT pace = race pace you could hold for one hour, in several places.   McMillan says the same and also says half marathon race pace, but of course for an elite world class runner that would be for one hour  ;) 

     I understood the 30 minute LT test is a good estimate of LT pace as you have to run it alone and obviously not in a race so therefore you would probably be able to do that pace in 60 minutes in race conditions running all out.


    Big G - that would be good it you could do the 5km at Yeovil.   I don't suppose Tavistock are reinstating their monthly 5k races yet?

    That video works re NF, if they get the go ahead I think the race will fill overnight.   But a lot of councils/land owners are being cautious.   Seems they're doing everything they can though so full marks to them for the effort.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I did have a look for the Tavistock one but their site hasn't really been updated since March.  I have just emailed them though to see if they're thinking of reinstating them.

    Yes, regarding NF, it does seem they're doing all they can.  I am really 50/50 about it - it's the fact that it's not accurately measured that is putting me off.  You know I do loads of events that are classed as "trail" but generally I'm not hoping for a quick time on those.  But if I was to get a PB at New Forest, in my own mind there would be an asterisk against it because it's not accurate.  So on that basis I expect I'l give it a miss.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well it wouldn't count as an 'official' PB anyway as it's not a measured and certified route.  I think TR said it came up a bit short according to his watch.   But I shouldn't let that bother you except it's a long way to go for a nice trail/multi terrain race.

    I hope Tavistock have good news for you.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Just making sure I get my dates 100% correct, but New Forest clashes with Davey's September weekend, that I've already said I'll do.  So I think it's unlikely I'll do NF now as it's just easier/cheaper to get down to Pym Trail for me.  I'll still know if I feel I'm running well.  As I say, it's a tough course for me, but if I feel I've ran it well I'll know in myself, regardless of if the time looks quite poor.

    In other news, I forgot to say I've got a refund for my Warsaw flights (BA).  I had to call them up and I was on hold for a long time, but I got a refund with no issues whatsoever.  I think they're making it easy for people to get vouchers via their site, but for a refund you need to call.  No problem though and once I got through it was all sorted in 5-mins and I should have it back on my account in 10 days.  I've also got refunds for two Travelodges that I previously had vouchers for, but it turns out that I couldn't use the vouchers for refundable rooms, so I asked for a refund instead.  That has been credited back today, so I now just have one Travelodge voucher that is valid until December 2021 which can only be used on Saver rates.  I have my eye on Running Miles events so I expect that voucher may get used there if and when they're back up and running.  I feel I've got out of all this very well in terms of refunds and not really losing much money at all.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Entered Boston UK today,only £28 mad happy enough to take a chance at that price,it's September 13th so good timing,they seem reasonably confident at the moment.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Big G: I'm the same with rest days. Having a day off makes me sluggish for a mile or two. 

    Cal; I love that song! But I tend to like all the songs that are considered bad!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well that sorts NF out.   As you're running well perhaps aim for a good course best at Plym Trail, not sure how Jelly did a PB there, but it can be done.   I think KW has done a PB there too?

    Good news on the refunds, I must phone EasyJet for mine.   Aer Lingus refunded me 3 days after phone call, and the 3 days included a weekend.  Think I'll be waiting a bit longer for EasyJet.

    I think we've been fortunate re refunds and even had non refundable payments returned to us.  We just need to hear about Frankfurt now.

    Ian - Boston is flat, fast course, you should do well there. But that part of the country is so flat that it's often the wind that's a problem, on a calm day definitely a PB course.  On my 'to do' list but a pig of a drive from here.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, before all this kicked off with Covid, I was looking at Boston.  It's the same day as NF and now also Plym Trail though.  I have a club mate who lives up that way and he enjoys that course. I'm pretty sure he got his GFA there.

    Shades, yes, I think KW did his PB there.  There's still this slight concern about no long runs for months, plus I know I won't get anywhere near that.  If I get a course PB I'll be happy, but it really is more of how I'm feeling.  Sometimes I can feel pretty bad slogging back up that hill for the second time, and then before I know it I'm walking....  Course PB is 3:45:25 when I ran it all the way feeling quite strong, so if I can get under that I'll be pleased.  That was 3 weeks after I did my 3:20 in San Sebastien.  I suppose it may depend a bit on if it's stop/start trying to be polite with members of the public though.  Also, if he does change the course to avoid that narrow path and introduces more out-and-backs, well, that won't be good for me!  I spoke to Chairman yesterday on the phone and he says he's going to be there, plus he's doing December's one, and probably he'll do one an October too.  
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    I did NF 1/2, and reckoned it was short (but ive only recently started running with a gps watch - at age 53!) So couldnt back that hunch up. An accuracy cerrificate exists for the full, but my beef is it doesn't seem to be a recognised race as it doesnt make p of 10 (not sure re runbritain). Its a lovely place to run. You can defo feel the pace change when it changes from trail to road, so im not sure it'd be pb potential........11 and a bit laps of goodwood has to be the plsce for that (on a still day).
    Vlm are doing their best to put a race on, so fair play to them, ill not enter goodwood until vlm gets cancelled (or not). No news on Brighton yet, which suggests that they too are trying to put a race on. Maybe they are moving to closed locations?
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Good luck for Boston.
    TR, sensible - I certainly am not entering anything until I know it'll go ahead. (I'm also like you, I prefer races to be on Po10).

    Gym was not quite what I was expecting - they're rearranged it so that the gym itself is all machines while all the free weights are in the studio, which has to be booked separately. I'd booked the gym, and I literally only use one of those machines, so the instructor allowed me to train in one of the outdoor pods they'd also rigged up, and brought me a couple of dumbells and a kettlebell. I did manage a half decent upper body workout - I'd not planned to do too much today as it was my first time back since lockdown. But I've booked the free weights for Friday.

    In other news, I did notice an itchy spot on my butt last night...basically the sacrum area, which is where I get shingles. And I've now come to the conclusion that it is indeed shingles. I can't really see it (even with a mirror) but certainly feels like it. Fortunately it's small and I feel pretty much OK so I'm not going to bother going to the docs for acyclovir. I feel the risks of going somewhere sick people congregate outweigh the irritation of a sore, itchy spot on my butt.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-A clubmate is also down for it so we are going to stay over,probably.I have heard about the wind so need to hope it is a still day,as there won't be much drafting with SD in place.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Ian - I looked at Boston as a replacement for Manchester, as nice and fast course.
    Big G - Yeah stick with one meaning/approach and go with that.
    Cal - Hope the shingles goes again!!

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    TR, as it happens, I do have a race credit for Goodwood.  I had previously discounted September's one as it is the same day as Warsaw, which I'm now not doing.  I've not booked anything though.  Again, that is also the same day as the rescheduled Frome Half, which I also have an entry for, but I'm pretty sure I can get a refund for that one.  They're all clashing!  I had a reasonable run at Frome Half last year so I'm tempted with that one, if it goes ahead, but December's Goodwood may have more chance of being bad conditions I suppose.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I might mention to Davey about whether the course has to be altered due to SD.   He also needs to do a new Covid risk assessment, I have a feeling that was the sort of stuff that his OH used to do.

    Even without the long runs, which you still have time to do, I reckon you could get a 3:30/3:35.

    At this stage I'm not planning to do any more Plym Trail events after September one.  I might change my mind 😏

    TR - NF don't have a UKA permit that's why it's not on Pof10, they insure the events privately.  Bit odd that in their video they said they been in consultation with UKA.

    Cal - bit annoying about the gym but at least you know now.   We can use machines and free weights as all part of the same booking for the fitness suite.

    You seem to suffer less now with the shingles as time goes on which is a good thing.  Apart from the small rash, that is.


    Ian - I had a look at Boston's website, I see from last year's results you should have enough company at sub 3 pace to have a good race.


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - i already have about 10 races rolled over to next yr, inc an Abingdon entry for next Oct!

    NF is a great place to run, if it was a race that was recongised id fancy it a bit more.

    On the day i struggled into an easterly howling gale at Brighton last yr, a mate was struggling into the same easterly wind on a flat course at Boston. Flat is only good on a still day, even when its still, i find that the relentless flat poundd the legs. A little bit of undulation can be a good thing.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-If more races get the go ahead there will be lots of clashes as most won't want to run into late November/December because of the weather risks.
    Started to pencil next years races as there are a few I'd like to do,depending on the situation I'm going to put myself in for Boston(US) again,may get to use my TAP vouchers that way.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    @SHADES: is Davey not with L anymore? I think there's a lot of races that could take place are risking not adhering to some of the stricter rules because they're smaller. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    TR, I agree - I've had my best runs at Chester and Yorkshire, both of which have a little undulation without being properly hilly.

    11 mile run today which took me up through Streatham, Norwood Grove and the Lawns to check out a park I'd not done before (which is just past The Lawns, near the Croydon transmitter). Nice, woodsy park with some fun traily paths, but one very steep hard path (15% according to Strava) that I wasn't expecting. Pace generally low although pushed it in a couple of places. Enjoyed myself - last of the cool weather for a few days, alas.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Cal - You really do love your hills! I’ll have to head down that way to check that part of town out which I don’t know. 

    7 miles on usual route last night at 10min/mi which is likely fastest I will go for a while given the upcoming heat wave. I’ve noticed that there are still a lot more runners than normal despite things opening up. Would be a positive outcome of this whole crisis if it led to more exercise habits. I suspect however just as many folks have gained a bunch of weight stuck at home on the beers though!
  • Big G that afternoon tea looks great, I'm keeping my eye out locally for Elle's birthday next month.  May consider taking advantage of an afternoon tea Mon-wed with the 50% off.  I was looking at NF with my mate who is due to go back to Poland soon (was May before covid) and could be a last chance to run together but I'm nowhere near ready.

    MF canoeing sounds like it's worked muscles you haven't used, I've found that with gardening.  I'm too jealous of not being about to run round London like Cal, but wouldn't swap it for the trails we have round here.

    Shades seen people moaning on facebook about the London announcement, I understand it's frustrating for them but the main concerns is that they feel the training is wasted.  I'm not sure why some people enter marathons if they don't enjoy the journey to the start line.

    Ian, enjoy you taper.  I've looked at Boston (UK) several times but the date has usually fallen too close to my A race.  Reports I've heard are pancake flat but very open so wind can play a factor.

    Rcouture  well done for sticking with  the training and being patient, this has been a very long build up for a marathon.  When we were all in lockdown at the start, a lot of people were out running, walking and cycling.  Some of my running routes were a no go.  It's pretty much reverted back to normal traffic but think there are a lot more at home gaining weigh.  

    Emmy hope you're feeling better soon, I've felt sluggish for a while hoping its just hayfever

    Cal I've not renewed my gym membership as it's 10 miles from home (by my place of work) I need to get to the gym as I don't enjoy s&c at home.  Well done on the 11 miles today, hope the shingles is nothing to worry about.

    TR If I was running for a time I'd want the race on PO10/ runbritain as used to be obsessed with the handicap tool, although I'm out of running races at the moment having parkruns affect my handicap I lost interest in that aspect.

    Hope everyone else is well and running free!  Fairly niggle free for me at the moment, the hip issue is still improving by running most my runs as a slower pace.  I have good spells for 3 or 4 days in a go then find myself not running for spell.  I am increasing the distance of the runs and feel better for it, babysteps but where I was happy running 4 miles it's gradually increased to 6 miles.  I'm hoping by the end of next week I'll have ran a few 7 and 8 mile runs and by the end of august like to have clocked 100 mile month and be able to run 10 miles plus.

    No real improvement on diet but Rome wasn't build in a day, I also find going for a run a bit of a chore and don't really enjoy it when I'm out but needs must and looking to the future when it could all be worthwhile
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    TR - I find slight undulations a much more comfortable run in a race than flat.   Pancake flat makes my calves ache from not having any change in cadence.

    Emmy - no, they split up last year, not sure when.   So as far as I know Davey is organising the races on his own now.

    I'm not that bothered for myself about EA races adhering to everything they are supposed to do so re Covid 19 as long as they don't invalidate their insurance of course.  Plym Trail are permitted with ARC so needs to comply with PHE guidelines, new risk assessment and of course liaise with any landowners/councils/police, whichever required.   Thankfully they don't have some of the daft rules that EA have produced, some of which I think races will struggle to follow to the letter, hopefully common sense will prevail.

    Hope you're feeling better today.

    Cal - I take it that no mention of your niggles today means a big step forward in your recovery from same.  :)

    Rcouture - one of the guys that delivered my sofa told me that one million have taken up running during the lockdown, so even if say 50% lapse that's a significant increase in a short time.    It seems that as many that have taken up exercise and improved fitness there are an equal number that haven't coped so well and have put on weight and perhaps eaten and drunk more than they should have.   Folk have different ways of coping and of course some have sadly had a very stressful time.

    I was back at circuits today, same crowd, good to seem them all again.   A few of them have noticeably bigger waistlines than the last time I saw them but all ready to deal with that now.


    No running today, my rest day.   Had a great circuits class, all beautifully organised, instead of sharing equipment we all have our own set of equipment to use.   Good to have my instructor back too, he assures me that I'll regain my gym fitness quickly thanks to muscle memory.   :/
    After class you have to leave the building straight away but as I had booked a gym session I had to walk around the building and queue again at the front door.   Really good gym session, worked a bit harder than last time but feel I'm starting to get back into it.   They've just launched their new app too for booking and that's really good.   

    Then food shop and supermarket was lovely and quiet, sailed round really quickly.   First time wearing a mask, hate it, will never get used to it.   
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    TR - Agreed. I've run some of my best HM times on more undulating courses.

    Easy 6 miles today.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Was up and out quite early for a 16-miler.  This was one where I'd planned not to run to MAF as it's hilly, mostly trail and I knew it wouldn't be possible/enjoyable to try and stick to that.  I had a coffee first thing, took a camelbak with 1L of water and some breakfast as I thought I'd be out for some time.  It's a route I haven't done before but I've been wanting to do it for a while so I'm glad I went out, and it was good underfoot despite the recent heavy rain (I was in sturdy road shoes).

    I started from my house and made my way over to Galmpton, before following the River Dart down to Kingswear, and then turning around and more or less retracing my steps back home.  According to Garmin/Strava it's about 1800ft of ascent so not massive but the steep bits were quite steep.  I'm really glad I went out as I've missed these types of runs recently, and I hope to do a few more over the coming weeks.  Parts of it was stunning and the best bit probably was along the train line that the steam train uses by the River Dart past Greenway (Agatha Christie's house, now a National Trust building), with views over to Dartmouth Royal Naval College.  Between about miles 3 and 13 I think I saw 2 people, so it was bliss (plus 2 birds of prey - I think they were Sparrowhawks).

    Despite not running to MAF I still took it easy as it took me 3hrs18, but I did stop a few times for pics and to have my breakfast (I had prepared an oatpot last night and took that with me, which was very, very nice at about 9-miles).  As it happens, 16-miles ticked over on my watch right outside a cafe that does breakfast baps, so as the stars were aligned I took one of those and ate it as I walked the 0.5 mile home.

    I did have a minor mishap on the route.  I was walking up a steep bank, and my trailing left foot caught a branch, which tripped me up as I fell onto my hands.  Absolutely no harm done to me as I was walking slowly and it was steep, but the branch tore the material across the top of the shoe.  Fortunately it was far enough back along the top that I was still able to run the rest of the way home.  These are good shoes that I wear regularly and they've done coming up to 700 miles now, so I'm hoping I cam patch them up with tape or something as I think they're good for another couple hundred.

    Interestingly, although I wasn't running to HR and didn't even have it displayed, the average for the whole run was 135 and all but the 14th and 15th were under 142 - those two were 143 and 146 so not massively over.  I did lots of these types of runs last year when I was recovering from injury and I always thought they did my fitness good as off of these types of runs I did 3:27 at Berlin.  In some ways seeing the averages for the miles reinforces that so although it's slow and it's a long time to be out there, I think it's good training.  Plus it's stunning scenery out there!

    A few pics, including one for the snake fans (I didn't see any of budding mathematicians...).


  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rob, you seem to be doing well at the running - why do you think you find it a chore? Are you running the same old routes?
    Shades, glad you enjoyed the circuits. I guess not everyone has been exercising in lockdown...or at least not as much.

    Niggles are still there but not too bad. Mostly hamstring today, due to the hills, but I am hoping the hills will strengthen it at least. I find myself strangely drawn to hills - perhaps I like the challenge. Who knows, I might even get to do DD one day. :wink:
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - xpost, I wandered off to make coffee again  :)

    You're making good steady progress in your training and that's much better than suddenly having a perfect diet and training religiously every day which so easily could end up in yet another injury and disappointment for you.  You'll come back stronger.

    I would be very cross if I was running London, it's saying they're going to make an announcement on whether the race goes ahead and in what format, but they never do.  So many runners are from outside the city and have to make lengthy and possibly expensive plans to get there and find accommodation, organise childcare, etc.   Plus those that are running for charity need to raise funds so need a definite answer.

    Big G - great photos, sounds like you had a lovely morning, including 2 breakfasts  :)   And you did it sticking to MAF too so that's good.

    Re snakes there's another one on the loose, more your way than mine, it's 7 foot so you should see it easily, some dispute what it is.   Haven't seen anything about it being caught yet.

    https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/seven-foot-snake-loose-brixham-4315958


    Cal - You're loving those hills so your name is provisionally on the DD list now  :)
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Probably a python - retics can grow very long indeed, mind you, and they are ill-tempered, unlike burms and royals which are generally pretty chill. Probably best not to approach it, venomous or not.
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