Shades Marathon Training

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  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Jelly-Hope you recover soon and come out OK,
    Cal-Glad your test was negative.
    OH has been allowed to bring 25 of the flow tests home with her, they aren't overly accurate but will give us an idea if any of us feel unwell.
    8.8m after work today, it is my usual after work run but not ran it for a couple of months, if I have no after effects I am going to try a short run tomorrow and hopefully in to double figures at the weekend.
    Decided to weigh myself for the first time since October, I knew I had put some weight on, as it was, it is about 12lb from my peak, so plenty of work to do once I get through the mince pies,I gave 2 of the xmas puds away so just 1 to finish
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - the rain is much better than the ice.

    Big G - I'm not surprised you've been a little tired, you've done some longish runs over the last few days.   How annoying that as we go through this lockdown with so little in our diaries you have a clash with the committee meeting and the Tri club.   ;)

    Ian - these are the tests that give you a result in 20/30 minutes?   Hope you don't need them but they could be useful.

    You'll soon knock that weight off when you're back training as normal...and you've finished the pud and pies   ;)


    5 easy miles today.   Would normally be my rest day but as I only ran 9 miles for the whole of last week I didn't feel I needed a rest day.   Lovely morning, 10 degrees, a little rain, no wind and the birds are singing.   :)

    Food shop this morning which is now the only time I go out except to run.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, once you get back into the swing of things you know that the weight will come off.

    Shades, yes, it was frustrating that they clashed.  I received an email afterwards though and I won a Trotters award for the bits and pieces I've done over the last year or so.  Really pleased with the prize but I enjoyed the stuff I've done.  The daily Q&A sessions and the quizzes were really well received I think, but probably it was sorting the Sportsshoes codes that swung it ;)  It'll be interesting to know how many people have used the codes - I've no way of knowing but I think it's a decent number.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - congrats on the award, well deserved.  I'm sure it was not mostly due to the Sportsshoes discount, although we all love a bargain.  

    In previous lockdowns I've really hated doing the shopping but today was a dream, very quiet in Lidl and Home Bargains.   I only shop at Lidl about once every 2 months as there is one item I particularly like from Lidl.

    Anyway today from the 'middle of Lidl' a foam roller, £4.99, £4 cheaper than the cheapest I found on line.   The middle bit comes out, on the packaging it says that will adjust the firmness, it doesn't and on the leaflet it says the middle part is useful for forearms or feet, the dreaded PF I guess, let's hope I don't need it for that.


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes they are the ones,we have had a couple of tests before just to see as they are mainly used for asymptomatic people,so will probably use it weekly then if it shows positive we go for a real test.
  • Cal/Shades - Maurten was good, very sweet tasting, but I think it'll work well.
    Big G - Yeah nightmare with the watch! Luckily everything was meant to be in round miles, so esy for me to finish the session even if the watch didn't know what I was doing!
    Rcouture  - Thanks, trying to maintain good fitness, so when races are back I'm ready!

    Easy 6 miles today, 9:30s for 124bpm.
  • Hi folks, heeding the advice I've managed to progress from 3 to 4 runs a week now, so that's good. Last weeks long run 12 miles at 9.30 pace.  So thats a sort of 12-15 mile long run every weekend for four weeks. Good for me as previously something would start aching.

    I was hoping to do a spring marathon (kent spring marathon) but my interim, "getting there" event is the SVN Olympic challenge February 27th.  Obviously likely to be cancelled, but I have the option do it virtually if I like now, as although not as good, I think I will as it will incentivize me a bit on, for me, a massive run.

    It would be great to make it to 18 miles, 20 would be better, but when I did my 15 the other week I was pretty exhausted.  Still 6 weeks to improve, so something to aim at.

    Assuming you guys do a sort of half marathon (or beyond) run every weekend.  Do you ever have a weekend where you would run less?  Are you guys taking hydration vests with you?  I always used to buy a drink from a garage at some point, but cant now as no mask.  I could run loops but that's abit boring, but would make it alot easier.

    Only running up to 15 miles I havent had to think of fuel yet.  Would you guys take something on after roughly two hours?

    Any favorite gel? Or should I just have a banana and a lucozade?  

    Thus thread is so active! It can be hard to keep up but great running all.
  • Shades that's a great find!

    Linton - I usually have a cutback week every three or four weeks where I drop my mileage a bit.
    I use a hydration vest in summer but less so in winter. I didn't take it on my 17 miler on Sunday although I probably should have. If it's cold I don't get as thirsty.
    I use the gels for 18+ - more for practise than anything. I use SiS mostly as they're quite wet (Torq have nice flavours but they're a bit thick so harder to get down) but I also had some samples of High-5 Aqua and they were nice - almost like fruit juice.

    Cheeky 12 mile run exploring some of the other hills on the Norbury side of Streatham Common. Cool, drizzly weather but didn't mind that at all. I took the hills at "just get up it" pace and was quite cautious on the downs, but fortunately I didn't get a recurrence of the foot pain I had on Sunday.
    On the way back I couldn't resist having a burn up Hill Path and actually bettered my time up there, which moved me from 10th to 9th in the overall female standings (Strava segments).
    I did another burn along an alleyway I often use and got a 5th place Strava trophy on that, running at below 8min/mi, which isn't bad considering I'd done quite a lot of climbing up until that point. Good to know there was plenty of juice in the legs at the end of the run - my stamina and recovery seem to be improving.
    I've already achieved the Strava climbing challenge badge for the month (you get it for climbing 2000m) - I often don't manage to get this badge, let alone after two weeks. Another 320m logged.
    Out of interest, Shades, what's the elevation on DD?
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    feeling a bit better today and have started an online course I had enrolled on before Christmas, start date was Monday but couldn't face the thinking which was evolved.  managed a few questions, its a Autism course so not all new to me.  the OH isn't feeling very well today I'm hoping it just being run down being stuck in as he's not as fit as me and this has knocked the stuffing out of me.  I can't see many races going ahead before September but we have to hope and keeping everyone safe is what matters. still haven't moved much as I'm isolated in the bedroom to protect my family, my 10 days are up on Friday, but not sure when I'm returning to work. stay safe. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly, great to hear from you and to read you're starting to feel a bit better.  Isolating from the family must be hard :(  

    Nice run there Cal.  You're doing well with the hills.  I think DD is (very roughly) 1100m for the 32 miles.

    LT, I think many plans have cut back weeks in them to help recovery.  I don't really have gels - on long runs on the coast path in the summer I take bananas and/or kendal mint cake.  I have been known to stop for an ice cream or a pasty too :)  In races I do sometimes have gels if the race organisers provide them.  In the winter, similar to Cal, I don't take fluids really.  I just try and make sure I'm well hydrated throughout the day/week.  In the summer on longer runs on the coast path I take a Camelbak, and if it's hot I put electrolytes in there, and I use the SiS tablets for that.  I have been taken the tabs more regularly over the last few weeks too, as I'm sweating a lot on the indoor bike at the moment!

    I jumped on my bike this morning for my first Zwift race.  Oooooph.  I was in Cat C and finished roughly in the middle of that.  It was very hard work though, but enjoyable.  And, yes, to be able to race it means I've updated my turbo trainer.  Wiggle had some money off one that I had my eye on, so I went for it and it arrived yesterday.  I'm not sure if my duathlon in March is going to go ahead so if it doesn't I can just see me keeping the bike on the turbo for a bit longer than I'd originally planned, and the new turbo makes Zwift much better than my old one.  Anyway, I did roughly 30mins warm up, the race took about 1hr and then 15mins cool down.  Legs were like jelly at the end of the race though!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve  - doesn't Kipchoge use Maurten?   It's expensive compared to others I believe, but if it's right for you it's money well spent.

    Cal - I'm surprised you didn't see the foam rollers when you were shopping.  There is a less smooth one too.  I expect you've got a good selection of torture/rehab equipment already.   ;)

    It's not really the overall climb at DD but the severity of some of the uphills and downhills.  And one hill at just over 13 miles into the race is a mile long, I think Ian remembers that hill.   ;)   You would do well as you're also a good walker and that is a great advantage.

    LTT - well done on increasing your number of runs per week without any tiredness or aches and pains.

    I can't remember the paces I put up for you, but that 9:30 seems quite fast for your long run?   Don't be tempted to do easy and long runs at the faster end of any pace range, you should be aiming for mid to slower end especially on a long run.

    I really wouldn't advise doing a virtual of marathon distance.   A marathon I'd a whole world away from a half marathon and first attempt at the distance should be a special occasion, in a race with a good race atmosphere.  Of course it's your choice.

    Re fluids I usually take a drink if I'm running over 13 miles, I have a bottle belt as don't need a lot for a training run.  I don't use a hydration pack, I can't stand the sloshing noise.   If I need more water I will refill on route, or if doing an out and back I'll drop a bottle in the hedge a couple of miles out then pick it up on the way home.
    I don't like gels, I will take a few sweets and maybe dates for runs over 14 miles.

    You could always carry a mask so you can buy something from the garage, would be a lot lighter than carrying a bottle.

    Jelly - so good to hear that you are starting to feel better.
    Maybe your OH should get a test, then if he unfortunately is positive he can isolate in the bedroom and you can maybe move to another room.

    Don't rush back to work.
  • Jelly - Great to hear you are feeling better. Hopefully you are passed the worst. 

    Cal - Nice 12 miles. You seem to be smashing it at the moment

    Linton - I use a hydration vest on >15miles when it’s hot otherwise I have a spibelt with one of these small soft water bottles tucked in when running more than 12-13. Most of the time i forget though 😬. I use SIS gels too mainly because they seem to help my recovery. I’ve been running with a buff during the pandemic which I use as a mask when I need to nip into cafes/shops or when passing groups of idiots who aren’t social distancing. 

    7 miles at lunch. Super muddy on my usual common route so will have to avoid that until it dries up next week. HR well under control at MAF though I did put in a cheeky stride which I will claim was to avoid a dogwalker. 

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, good to read you were pleased with the HR yesterday.

    A friend of OH made this ceramic of Hiske for her birthday.  It's in NL so we won't get it for the foreseeable future, but it made OH quite emotional.  It looks a lovely gift.  It's been about a year now since OH put her to sleep, which is incredible to think really.  

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - sounds like you're over that blip with higher RHR and MAF.


    Big G - that is beautiful and I think captures her facial expression that I remember from photos.  I know she was a big dog but the ceramic looks almost life size?  I take it's not, otherwise you might need a bigger car.   ;)   What a lovely present.


    Not a good run for me today.   Today is the 10 mile tempo run, funny I wasn't dreading it today as I usually do, I'm just resigned to doing my best.   Conditions were good, mild and a light breeze.   Did the 2 miles easy to warm up, felt OK but when I got to the point to up the pace I just didn't have a higher gear at all and couldn't increase pace.  In fact mile 3 was slower than the first mile of my warm up.  I even thought of switching to mile reps instead but didn't have the energy for that either so turned around and ran home, 5 miles.   I feel fine, RHR normal, no symptoms, I'm eating well, weight stable.

    So I've decided to ditch the Conne training plan, it just doesn't suit me.   This my 7th week of the Conne plan, 3 have been completed successfully and 3 have been hampered my ice and a niggle.   But discarding the runs where my pace was affected by the ice my overall training paces have slowed even though my mileage on the 3 full weeks has been OK at 48, 60 and 55 mpw.  I feel like I've lost my base training, odd really as the majority of the Conne plan is at easy/long run pace.

    So back to my beloved Hadd from tomorrow.   Need to write myself a training plan today.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Shades, I think it’s based on this pic (with her front legs crossed) although in the ceramic she looks like she’s just been groomed. I think the ceramic is about 18in long. 


    Sorry to hear about your run. Sounds a good idea to switch back to what you prefer. 

    I did 13 miles today. My usual 10 mile fairly flat route (with 3 or 4 inclines) but I tagged on three flat miles towards the end - those were 8:37, 8:36, 8:43 so I’m really pleased with that (miles 10, 11 and 12). Average for the whole 13 was 9:20 so quite happy with that too.
  • That's a lovely tribute, Big G. Nice looking dog.
    Good running there, I'd have been pleased, too.

    Shades, sorry you had a bad run - my pace feels a lot like that at the moment. Injuries aside, I think in my case, the lack of a weekly parkrun has had quite a big impact. Doing tempos on my own just isn't the same and I don't enjoy them so I tend not to do them unless I have to.

    I decided to go out for a recovery run today rather than walk - it was raining but not too hard. But by god it was wet - puddles everywhere. I stuck to roads for most of it but then I decided to use one of the common paths to my road and found it flooded. I already had wet feet at that point so I splashed through one flooded bit but then the next bit was up to my knees so I turned back. Almost came to grief on a kerb that was hidden under the muddy water, but managed to stay upright, thankfully. Anyway, it was 5 miles at a very ploddy 12 minute+ pace. Couple of things I learned about going that slowly - aside from miles ticking by very slowly indeed, I can get hungry and cold. Normally I don't get hungry on runs, but I do on walks.
    Anyway, hoping legs feel decent tomorrow as I need to do some speed work.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - the ceramic looks a lot bigger than 18", must be the bricks behind that give that illusion.
    Lovely photo too, she really was a beauty, so regal.

    That's a great run from you today, you'll be back to your peak MAF pace very soon.



    Cal - I think my reason for drop in pace is the opposite to yours, the tempo runs have damaged my base pace as running at too high a heart rate.   But we're all different.

    You definitely need to wear more kit when running slower, I've found that out doing Hadd.   Hunger is not an issue for me except that I might well be thinking about my breakfast in the final couple of miles and it's straight to the kitchen when I finish my run.

    I've rewritten my training plan, I've left the hilly run in for Tuesday as I enjoy that one, just won't go over 80%MHR on the hills, at least not for a few weeks.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, I am pleased.  Do you remember last year we were concerned about my cardiac drift and we didn't really know why it was happening - the miles in my MAF tests were sometimes getting slower each mile, occasionally quite a lot slower in only 5 miles.  Well, that seems to be a thing of the past, certainly up to around 10-12 miles (ish).  My best MAF test was an average of 8:33 for 5 miles (after a gentle 1-mile warmup) so to average around 8:40 for 3-miles towards the end of a 13-miler, and for the pace to be quite consistent, is really encouraging.  I do definitely know that these cooler conditions suit me (cool, but not cold) so it'll be interesting to see what happens when it warms up and/or gets more humid.  

    It does lead me to wonder what to try for at this 10k effort.  I've done zero speed work (except for some very hard efforts on the bike) so nothing to base it on really.  I'm thinking about going out at 7min/miles and just seeing what happens.  At least it'll give me an idea and if I blow up, that's fine.  But if I happen to speed up through the run then at least I know that too.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I wonder if the up and down course that you use for your MAF tests was partly to blame.  Making the mind aware of how many laps to do, raising adrenaline and thus cardiac drift.  Instead of just running out for 5 miles in a calm manner.  You would expect some drift after 10ish miles, that's fairly normal, the body doesn't have unlimited energy.

    Just be careful with this 10k time trial, this is how you got injured last time.   :/
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I was just thinking the same about the 10k.  In one way I kind of regret signing up to it as I'm just enjoying the MAF at the moment, but on the other hand I'd like to see where I am and turning the legs over a bit quicker is a tempting prospect.  Maybe I'll turn it into more of a tempo effort rather than a hard effort.  I'll see.  This time, the day off from running every three days seems to be keeping everything in check (plus I'm still doing the stretches/strengthening), whereas maybe in the summer I was doing a bit too much?  Don't know, but if I feel something on the effort I'll just have to stop and give the organiser a sick note.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I'm sure you'll be careful.   Maybe just wind the pace up gradually.   Even if you don't get the time you sort of hope for, you know that in a couple of months you will get that time easily.

    Good that you're keeping up with the strengthening and stretching, that will pay off by helping to keep you injury free.


    I'm now watching the programme The Truth About Getting Fit at Home, was on BBC last night, quite interesting, worth a watch.
  • Shades - Dumb question but why do races/tempo races degrade base fitness gained from MAF/low hr running? Just the fatigue? I definitely experienced it after my time trial and am still not quite where I was before that fitness wise. Is it just the body’s inability to maintain peak fitness for too long and the harder effort just crystallises that?

    7 miles at lunch and did it along the river this time to avoid the bog that the common has become. Forgot my chest HRM as had a crazy morning at work so that was a bad start when coupled with the rotten weather. Got it done though and uplifting as usual by the end so all good. 
  • I think I'm staying away from the commons for a bit, Rcouture... :D Certainly after my wading expedition this morning.

    Got my new laptop set up (for the mostpart anyway...what a faff that is) - Garmin, Strava and Facebook. PC's been stable, fortunately, but it's peace of mind, and I'll be able to take it on trips in the future so I don't have to wait until I get home to upload my runs and races.
  • Cal - Most importantly, can you game on the laptop?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-That wouldn't have been a good place to fall over right in to a flood.
    Shades-Pity about the Conne plan,at least you have realised it isn't working for you and called it quits rather than grind on to the end.
    Big G-Great ceramic,I found my Zwift races very hard work,and I was only in D.
    Same 8.8m run today,felt good and enjoyed it,bit hard work up the hard hill but happy to get it done again,kept the HR to 140 so all good.
  • Rcouture - I could but that's not what I got it for - I'd rather game on my big rig. I just need to replace the rig as and when it's possible to get one built and installed in my gaff (so, after lockdown, really).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I'm not sure if that's what happened to you.   I know you ran hard but it shouldn't have taken that long for you to recover.   Post race/hard session the immune system can take a bit of a knock and often that's when a runner picks up a virus/cold as they are more vulnerable.   I think that's what might have happened to you.  

    If we were able to keep our base fitness forever we'd only have to build the base once.   So just as time off running, say due to injury, will result in a drop in base fitness so does too much racing and/or fast running.  I've never responded well to traditional speedwork so I think I'm probably more vulnerable than most.  Maybe it's just that I need a higher % of my training to be at BT pace.  I suspect it's to do with lactate threshold.

    You must have had a lot of rain lately.

    Ian - that's good progress.   I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on with the P&D speed sessions when you're ready to start them.  ;)


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Shades - just as you were building up the ice stopped you. You missed quite a few days in a short time, so no surprise. Consistent training is key. But agreed, you need to do the training that will get you out the door.

    Big G - for me, you need to be able to do strides etc with no issues to be racing. Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with making it an mp type run or tempo run. Oming out of it with some data and felling motivated to crack on is good, but remaining healthy is key, that might take a reduced effort, but no problem. Ive run plenty of races as workouts, including a 5m wu and 9m warm down either side of chichester 10k.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    TR - I was already running 50-60 mpw  before I started on the Connemara training plan and my training paces were faster for less effort.   I was getting less fit on the plan than before I started it.   I know I lost some training days but I've lost training time before and never deteriorated so quickly.

    Hope your training is going well.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Shades - sounds like a good time to change then. Im getting back towards where i was before CV. I noted the NDVM cancellation. I have Dorney at Easter but think the vaccine program might allow racing from may or june, so dorney might not survive. We'll see. By May if its got as far as the target of over 50s vaccinated as planned then that'll be 50% population vaccinated.
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