Shades Marathon Training



  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Great race reports Big-G/Shades/Keith. Sound like great runs all round. 
    Ian - that's a swift recovery from your injury which was bothering you a couple of days ago.

    Are you still planning to do Boston?   I'm just doing May's races for the marathon list.

    Rcouture - you'll soon be the one doing the race reports.  :)

    5 mile recovery run this morning, the extra toe room in my NB's was needed this morning as my toes are sore, but once I got the shoes on then I was able to run with minimal discomfort in the toes.   Hip flexors are very sore too, that's lack of long runs, apart from that just a bit of general tiredness.   I have cancelled my gym today, I was hoping to do an upper body session but my toes are sore and would be better staying home and walking around in bare feet all day and they should be OK by tomorrow.

    Big G - have you had a chance to analyse your HR stats for yesterday?    My average was 82% MHR, and was the same for the first 13 miles as the 2nd 13 miles, but I slowed considerably in the 2nd half as I didn't have the energy/fitness to keep the pace going.   

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-The injury is annoying,I ran yesterday and coukd feel some pain at the start but it never got any worse,and today is a little sore but not too bad.No I skipped boston as it is a week before DD,I still have windermere down on the 23rd though.I was thinking it was a dnf,but seeing how well you guys did with no real long runs makes me want to give it a go.
    Ian - OK, I'll take Boston off the list, I thought you might cancel that one.

    I think if I waited until I thought my training was perfect I'd never be on another start line.  :/   I think you should give Windermere a go, you still have 4 weeks to ditch that injury and a decent effort there would give your confidence a boost about DD.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, can anything be gleaned from this?  My average was 165, which is about 84% of my Max.  You can see my HR got higher as I went along until I had to slow at 19 miles.  It then stayed fairly stable whilst the pace dropped until mile 24, and then I after that I was shuffling.  That spike at around mile 11 is me trying to wrestle some kendal mint cake out of my bag whilst still running!

    This is the Average HR per mile, and the range per mile.  Although mile 19 is where that chap ran away from me, I'm a bit sceptical that it's showing my HR range as topping out at 194, as I have my max HR as 195 from the tests I've done.  I was working hard, but not that hard (I was wearing a HR strap)!  When I've done a LT test, I've got my HR as 180.
    7:45 1144 104-156
    7:41 2150 144-159
    7:31 3150 142-154
    7:38 4152 146-163
    7:39 5153 148-159
    7:37 6154 149-159
    7:38 7154 148-160
    7:31 8157 154-161
    7:42 9157 153-164
    7:40 10159 156-165
    7:39 11164 156-186
    7:29 12161 158-167
    7:17 13165 158-176
    7:16 14167 158-175
    7:20 15171 165-179
    7:23 16175 167-185
    7:06 17177 171-186
    7:07 18183 172-194
    7:10 19182 173-194
    7:37 20178 166-187
    7:39 21179 175-186
    8:06 22176 165-186
    7:54 23178 167-188
    8:18 24178 167-191
    9:21 25167 152-186
    9:13 26160 150-170
    2:37 26.34177 168-189

    Would you do anything differently regarding training?  I train mainly at 142 or lower, and I have in fact recently realised that I'm not really reaching 142 all that often (I will do if I do a MAF test).  Should I actively try and stick at 142, or is it fine to let it drop a bit lower?

    Also, my mileage really has been quite poor, certainly nowhere near what I was doing last summer.  This is the weekly mileage over the last 30 weeks, which is not great reading at all.  I would really like to get that up to regularly 50-60 miles per week, but I've not had a great few months with my fall, my back procedure and achilles/PF-type issues.

    Big G - 84% is very good and considering that's your 3rd best time bodes well for future PB's.    I would ignore those peaks of 194, unless it happens frequently, I don't take any notice of the range but use the average figure for my stats.   However it was at 19 miles when you had to ease up as you'd reached your limit so I expect your HR did peak fairly high then.

    Re training, I would continue running at 70-75% MHR or so and start doing some hillier runs allowing the HR to go up to 80%ish on the hills, DD coming up after all.  :/    Considering your average mileage over the last 9 weeks, 47 mpw, makes your race yesterday even more impressive.   I wouldn't go mad on increasing the mileage before DD, 50-60 per week with some hills should do it as you're already in good shape.

    How's your Dad doing?
    I see the 100MC have given up on that awful event listing they were using.   Now they've done a simple list, a lot better, but I suspect they've just copied Apex Sports listing, it's full of errors and many events omitted.   You really wouldn't think that the 100MC list was compiled or checked by a marathon runner.    :smiley:
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks Shades, I'll keep doing what I'm doing and I am definitely going to try and get some hillier runs in.  I did a 3-mile flat recovery run earlier and also then went out for a 4.5 mile walk with Tigg.  Legs were quite stiff first thing but feeling a bit better now, and otherwise I'm feeling okay.  I'm actually wondering already what to do at Worcester in terms of pacing it, but I'll figure that out nearer the time.  My weight is good still so although I did slow after the faster section yesterday, I feel it's a good marker for me.

    I did just call the hospital as today is a big day for Dad as the surgeon was going around to see him.  It's not great news though as he needs his other toes off, so he'll have none left on that foot.  When I called, his partner's daughter (a nurse at Torbay) happened to be there and spoke to the surgeon too, which was a bit of luck as I managed to get all the info direct from her.  I'm just trying to push to get some kind of care package put together for when he is discharged, as he had nothing at all in place when he left Exeter (it was me that sorted out the nurses to come and see him, as none of that was planned in).  I've been assured that a care package will be in place, and also it's possible he may be moved to Brixham hospital for some recovery time, which would be very good.
    Big G - sorry to hear your Dad is going to have yet more surgery.   That would be good if he can have some recovery time in Brixham hospital before going home.    More convenient to get the care package in place too.

    Re Worcester, it's likely your average HR will be higher as it could well be warmer than yesterday and the course is undulating
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Nice report, Shades - well done.

    Big G, great race from you considering the various setbacks you've had, as well as the wind. I think in good conditions you can get much closer to 3. Sorry about your dad, though, that's going to make life hard for him.

    Re: of the guys in my club, Matt Dickinson, came sixth in the elite Cheshire marathon (he ran 2:20 - a PB for him). I was looking at his splits on Strava and they were pretty even - last two miles were even a bit quicker - but his HR was 180 for ages. I'm guessing this was optical but it does seem pretty high.

    So today was to be my first continuous run for a while - no walk breaks. And I managed the 3 miles (well it was actually 5K) no problem. I found it easier to regulate my pace without the walking breaks so I kept it to a very even 10:40is (mile were 10:43/10:42/10:42 which was how metronomic I was). HR didn't get too high either.
    But on the other hand, hamstring wasn't particularly happy. It wasn't painful per se but I could feel it the whole time so I will have to make sure it doesn't get any worse as I can't afford any more setbacks. Considering I had a proper rest yesterday (just a couple of 2 mile strolls to get my steps count up to 10K) and warmed up properly today (25 mins of hamstring and glute stuff, then a one mile walk) it really should be less grumpy than it is. I think I'm just old.
    Cal - good that you're back doing continuous runs but not so good on the hamstring still causing you discomfort.

    Well done to another speedy performance from that guy in your club.

    That might not be that high a HR for a marathon.   The more highly trained will have a higher LT threshold and be able to run a race at a higher HR.   His max could easily be over 200 too. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well he's still quite young - early 30s, so yes, I reckon so. He's actually hell of an ultra runner - he won NDW100 a couple of years ago. Interesting to see what direction he goes in.
    The standout was our female runner Rose Harvey who ran 2:30 - that's only a few seconds off the Olympic qualifying time and not too far behind Steph. 
  • Shades well done on your sub 5 thats a nice chunk inside your A goal, it's a weird feeling racing and seeing others about! Really like the local made medal, makes the event stand out something like that.  Was this the longest you've been without running a marathon?  I noticed in recent years that the 100mc listing had changed.  I just used Apex when looking recently.

    Keith - top running, hope the hamstrings behave!

    Big G - cracking effort and a brilliant time, I've put the race on my list of about 100 marathons. Bad news about your dad needing more surgery.  Hope he's okay about it (as much as he can be)

    Cal glad the running getting there!

    Ian sorry to see you're still struggling with injuries.

    Had a talking to from Elle yesterday she was telling me how I'd got myself in a rut and need to snap out of it.  Motivation to get out and run has been low recently, earlier in the year I would even choose my uni degree over running, not even motivated to do that at the moment.  Had a day off today and got out and ran 8.7 miles legs were tired by the end but enjoyed it and was a lovely day.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Thank you for posting those race reports, I really enjoyerd reading them!

    Great results there, Shades hanging on in there and getting your target goal and Big G for giving everything you had and coming in with your third best time. Inspirational  :)
    Lovely medal too.

    Sorry to hear about your dad Big G. I hope he can stabilise a bit now and his operations are finished.

    Rob - Have you got any more races planned? I can't remember.. that's normally a sure fire way to keep us motivated. Keep going!

    Cal - Great on your first continuous run. I am dreaming of that.
    And you're not old.

    Not great news from me. My dr thinks my meniscus is the problem.. maybe stemming from the fall I had on it during La Rochelle marathon a couple of years ago. We are trying a course of anti - inflammatory drugs this week, if that doesn't work then it's an injection direct into the knee the week after and if that doesn't work it's an MRI scan to see if it needs surgery.
    Happy days  :/
    Cal - there's some class runners in your club.

    Robert - no, not the longest spell without a marathon, that was last year when I did Plym Trail in September, about 10 months since the last.  Oh and my 2nd marathon might have been 17 months after the first.
    But last year when I did Plym Trail I was training well plus it's not an event that I generally go for a time/target.  My training times have slowed since then so really wasn't confident I could do sub 5.   And I'm getting older too. 

    I'm sure your marathon on Sunday will fire up your motivation to train again.    It's hard when we've had so many lockdowns and plans cancelled/postponed yet again.

    Mamafox - well at least that's good proactive treatment for your knee.   Your PF responded well to an injection so hopefully your knee will too.
    That fall you had was when you split your knee open, wasn't it.   And you finished covered in blood.
  • MF got a fair few races lined up, hopefully something will tic and I’ll be good again. Hope you get sorted soon, 

    shades I keep forgetting we’re all getting older and we start to slow down! I’m aiming to get back under sub 4 again before she gets me and forces me to slow down.

    I’ve not had a period without injury since aug/ sept training.  If I can build some momentum, I’m hopeful to go sub 4 at Dorney (again) in October (also dependant if I run CW50 2 weeks before and recover).

    Have pretty much got my race calendar sorted for 2021 and made a start on 2022 with deferrals.

    2nd May - two castles marathon
    13th June - Stow Marries (timed event)
    17th July - Fairlands Valley Challenge (waiting on permissions)
    15th August - Kimbolton Castle half
    18th Sept - CW50 miler
    3rd Oct - DL Marathon
    31st Oct - Stort 30

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited April 27
    Robert, I still think I've got PBs in me, so I'm not too worried about my age at this point.  Obviously lots has to come together on the day after a decent training block, but I know I can still get PBs at all the distances.  I think we all get those lulls at times, but hopefully you'll got back to it; you've certainly got a decent list of races to have a go at.  I've not thought too much past DD at this point, but probably I need to start thinking about the Autumn really.

    MF, really sorry to hear of your injury woes still but it sounds like there's a plan forming.  Let's hope the anti inflammatories and/or injection works.

    Shades, HA did a storming run on the weekend, which was 43-mile Ultra on the SWCP with 10000ft of elevation!  Gulp!  She finished 1st overall, 1hr45mins ahead of the next person.  There's a write up about it here, along with other Trotter news from the weekend.

    Forgot to say, 7-miles at MAF today and I had a good run out.  I was out early for me (5:37am) but I enjoyed it out there this morning.
    Robert - sorry you can't pull the age card for distance running with me, you're far too young  ;)  I did my last marathon and 10k PB's at the age of 54.   
    However, it's not all about PB's but staying healthy and injury free, getting the training right and most importantly enjoying our running.

    That's a good list for the year, fairly well spread out.   Is the Stow Marries a 6 hour event?

    6 miles today, would have liked to do 8 miles but I still have some DOMS particularly in quads and hip flexors.   Toes are OK now as long as I don't try and do something like a plank.  It was cold and frosty which didn't help my DOMS today.   Slightly worrying is a twinge in my achilles when going uphill, will keep to the flat for a few days.   Today's run was undulating.

    Gym later  :)

    edited April 27
    Big G - xpost.   Wow that's a stonking run by HA, she is so talented.    Hills don't seem to bother her as her previous win at DD showed.   A good PB by YT and another Trotter's record, I know he was hoping for faster.

    So good to read race reports again 
  • Hmm Windermere could be fun it seems as per this extract from email they sent.
    Changes to refreshment stations
    In line with RunBritain guidance the number of refreshment stations this year has been reduced to three on the course and one at the finish line.  These will be positioned at approximately 10.2, 16.3 and 23 miles from the start and at the finish line.  Water will be available in 500ml bottles mainly with sports tops although there will be some screw top bottles. You are encouraged to be self sufficient with your own hydration system, for example carry a silicone bottle that can be filled up at the stations, or a hydration backpack. Electrolyte sports drink will also be available at the stations in cups.
    Wasn't aware reducing drink stations below normal levels was a thing. Shou;d be able to cope within reason. I'll perhaps get electrolyte to drink then and there and carry the bottles too.
    FOr the record vaguely looking at 4:45 to 5:00 time we'll see. Can book my jab now BUT nothing nearer than er Grasmere.... Ulverston is perhaps quicker to drive to so pondering that one. Will see if i can get the local sites though as we have them.

  • Big G 10000 over 43 miles is pretty impressive even more so on the terrain, how come you didnt get a photo in the write up? 

    Shades, felt a bit of an imposter trying to play the age card.  Heaven and earth would have to move for me to PB at 10K, 11 years since my last 41:52.  Stow Marries is a 6 hour event, imagine would stop at the marathon. Well done on getting the 6 done... every time you mention gym it reminds me I need to go! 

    Keith I quite like the idea of bottles rather than cup, I’m happy to run with a bottle almost like a comfort blanket.  Unfortunately others will think nothing of tossing bottles anywhere.  Hope you get the jab sorted! 

    Just the 5km today to keep legs ticking over... testing my suunto ambit 3 which I’ve had for years but never used the navigation aspect which I need for Sunday’s run.  Seems to work well which takes the pressure off on Sunday  

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Totally agree that you have more PB's in you,hopefully I have also.
    Went out for 6 miles today,there were a couple of decent hills so I decided to go hard on the downhills to see how the leg reacted,interestingly it eased when I speeded up,probably something to do with the blood flowing more,will see how it us tomorrow then decide on Fridays 5k.Forgot how hard it feels running fast though.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    As an aside, for people who have email notifications on, are yours working?  Mine appear to have stopped, or at best are intermittent, as I didn’t get any for the posts yesterday. 

    Shades, that’s a bit worrying about the achilles twinge. How was it on this morning’s run?

    Keith, maybe carry a 500 or 750ml bottle and refill it at the stations?  I think that’s probably what I’d do in that situation. I have a Nathan bottle belt which has the bottle angled on my back, and it works well and doesn’t get in the way or feel heavy, but it’s still easy to get to the bottle. 

    Robert, I was at the race on my own so had no personal photographer :) OH did offer to come but there wasn’t much to do around where the race was and it was an early start from home so I suggested she stay at home and see friends etc, as it was the last day of her time off from work. There was a photographer on the course but he didn’t get me in any of the pics. 

    Ian, you’ve got PBs too, definitely. I was hoping to do a 5K tomorrow as places are coming available but so far places have only come up in sub-16 and 21-22mins for the waved starts. 

    I had a very confused Dad on the phone at 5:45am. It’s very hard not being able to do much to help or calm him down. I was there yesterday and he was very tearful and confused, but his sugars are very low (they’re usually high), which I don’t think helps.  Doctors are looking at it.  It’s not nice to see, and having to leave after an hour isn’t great when he was still upset, but it’s better than nothing. He’s in there on his own and is basically stewing, as I’d be too. One positive is that I happened to be there when the doctors came and the fact the wound is bleeding is a good thing as it means blood is getting to the area, and also they said it looks clean (I had to leave the room as I’m very squeamish with blood!).  He’ll be knocked out again today (5th time I think) to have it stitched up but the doctor seemed positive I felt. It’s being drummed into me and him that he must get on top of his diet to help with recovery when get gets home - I’m fully aware but hopefully he’ll act too. 
    Keith - I've seen folk saying that  to keep checking the availability of vaccinations as it changes very quickly depending on supplies.

    Yes, those are the guidelines from RunBritain/EA, a great example of their incompetency and lack of consideration for  runners' wellbeing.   Unfortunately Brathay are always jobsworth and follow every rule to the letter when in a situation common sense should prevail.       There's also a half marathon isn't there, we've all seen half marathon runners in distress at less than 10 miles, especially newbie runners.   They are likely to end up with more runners requiring medical attention on the route, ambulances too, when surely the RunBritain guidelines should be to take any pressure off the NHS not inflict more.
    Just imagine the first drink station at 10 miles, every runner will be desperate and they will most likely want 2 bottles of water.    If I was organising a race and wanted to cut drink stations I would change it to every 5 miles, rather than the usual 3, which is much safer for runners.   When I did the 10 in 10 we did have a few days when the temperature was mid twenties, which some runners will find that too warm for them.

    If I was running Windermere I would reply to that email very strongly.    :#:#  If enough runners do the same they will rethink the drink station plans.

    Robert - there are plenty of other distances for you to PB at, your marathon PB is definitely a realistic target for you in the future, if that's what you want.

    No need to feel guilty if you don't get to the gym, that's not my intention when mentioning it.   If it helps, I'm not going to the gym today.

    Ian - hope the leg is OK so you can race this week, as I know you're keen to race again.

    6 miles today, something strange happened, it rained   :)  Not much but at least it was something, we are desperate for rain down here.    Nice easy run, still have a twinge in achilles on the two tiny uphills I did today, but less discomfort than yesterday.
    Big G - xpost, again  ;)

    I don't have the email notifications turned on, they were always a bit wobbly before weren't they?

    Re the photos at Shepperdine, there was a photographer outside a church, he had a lovely dog and he did take a pic of me.   I don't think those photos are up yet as it doesn't look the same place to me, I could be wrong though.  He was only there on my first lap.

    Sorry to hear about your Dad, that's distressing especially when you can't physically do anything right now to help.   But good news on his circulation working so they're pleased with the treatment.

    I would have had to leave the room too as I'm squeamish about feet.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, from my point of view, hearing the phone go at the time I was thinking the worst, but when I saw it was Dad's number I was initially a bit confused.  I'll try and see him later but it is dependent on when he goes for his operation.

    I forgot to say, I too have entered Dorney Lake in October, Robert.  I entered it yesterday.  In my case I had a spare Travelodge voucher for one of the cancellations from last year, so I used that.  Plan is to go for a good time at that one although I do have a back up as Barnstaple is the week before.  I've not entered Barnstaple yet, but I will do.  Trouble with both of them is they're open to the wind, so if Barnstaple happens to be great conditions I'll go for it then.  If it is bad conditions I'll take it easier and hope conditions are good for the week after.  I don't love the Barnstaple course although it's an okay drive from her, but a small part of it is on very narrow paths, so I think the Dorney course would suit me better to attempt a decent effort.

    I also forgot to say something about DD.  Chair has asked me to sort out a new Site Map as it's different this year, so I'm just finishing that off.  Also, he wants a survey for people to estimate their finish times from sub-4:30 and increasing in half hour increments, so I've sorted that.  Not sure when he's sending it, but something to think about!  I can build a case for me to go for 5-5:30 or 5:30-6:00!  I think I'll aim for 5-5:30.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Nice running all. Richmond marathon tweeted this out yesterday:
    Marathon update🚨
    We have found another local venue for the Richmond Marathon on Saturday 29th May. This will be optional, but we have tried our best to find a venue so your training will not be wasted.
    Hoping to announce tomorrow along with other options should this not suit!

    Bit strange and since they mention a local venue I do wonder if it will be something like the Kempton racecourse where I’m booked into a half a couple days later. I can’t think of any other more suitable i.e. not on public lands, venues in SW London. Don’t think I could do a marathon on a 5k loop at this stage to be honest so would probably stick to previous plan but let’s see! Otherwise I’ve been running easy (well even more than usual) to get this niggle in my calf to go down. It’s not really painful, more of a tight discomfort. Getting better slowly. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Your dad is going through a rough time at the minute,hopefully come out the other end fine.I will probably put the 6-6.30 time at DD,if you get the time wrong it's not like you don't have plenty of space to overtake people.
    Shades-I actually replied to Windermere yesterday saying similar,also saying after the big hill at 7 people will need a drink,will see what they say,if not I have a pack I will use.
    Rcouture-5k loops wouldn't be too bad for me,drink every 3 miles is good,only issue would be if it has hills as you face them every lap.
    Leg is same as usual today so Friday looks good,checking runbritain for people in my race and I'm about 6th to last so decent chance I'll finish last.

    Big G - Barnstaple is only the half this year, I know their adverts say both but I'm sure I saw that no marathon this year.   I'm doing Hullavington on the 26th, have a deferred entry, there might still be places.   

    Re DD - you should be able to do sub 5 so 5-5:30 will be a comfortable estimate for you.

    I'm trying not to think of DD at the moment as I am a doubtful starter, I will decide after Worcester.

    Rcouture - hope that calf niggle clears up soon, but you have plenty time.

    Good that Richmond are doing their very best to get the marathon staged soon.    Wait until you hear full details before deciding.  I know you want a better course than 5km laps but if you're at peak marathon fitness I think you should go for it.   We never know when we might be injured/ill or another lockdown or a curtailment of mass events so the option to run a marathon needs to be given careful consideration.

    Ian - good for you replying straight away to Windermere, let's hope enough runners do that, instead of whinging about it but doing nothing.   Of course there may be revised guidelines issued on the next stage of coming out of lockdown on 17th May.    At Shepperdine we were told that there were 5 drink stations for the marathon but actually I think I had the option for a drink 7 times on the course.

    Good news on the leg after your test speedy run.
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