Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - have you looked at Malta or Cyprus, both in early Spring?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I’ve done Rotterdam as well, but it’s not necessarily on my list to do again. If OH and I are in Netherlands seeing her family when it’s on I’d do it, but I don’t think I’d specifically plan to do it again. I really enjoyed Rotterdam itself (less touristy than Amsterdam) but the race was just ‘okay’ in my view. One issue is that the baggage drop was really bad and slow and then when the bag was finally dropped off, faster runners had to fight through 1000s of runners from the back to get to the pens at the front of the race, which I really didn’t like. 

    I’ve also done Malta and it’s officially my PB course, but it’s downhill.... I know it officially counts as it is fine for qualification for other events, but I personally have a slight issue with it being my PB for that reason.  It’s just a personal thing.  It’s a point-to-point course, which I really like although it does mean it’s an early bus to the start (presuming it’s the same course in these Covid times, which I haven’t checked), and I’d do it again (in fact I did go back a second time but it was cancelled the night before the race due to very bad weather!). 

    For me, Barcelona is the best out of those three, but that’s just me. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G- Malta can't be that significant of a downhill course otherwise it wouldn't be allowable.  Also if it had that much of a reputation for fast downhill then it would be immensely popular for that reason, which it's not.   You really shouldn't be bothered by that IMHO, if you are then you know what you have to do about it 😉

    Cyprus and Malta have dates up for 2022.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, it’s just a personal thing, but if the course had been the other way around it wouldn’t be my PB. I know Strava doesn’t necessarily accurately represent it but it’s fairly significant I’d say. I’d still do it again though and if I got a GFA there, for example, I’d still take it :)

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Couple of hills in there to counter act it  :wink: .That is on my list soon,mainly for the chance of a fast time.
    Didn't get to run this weekend,feel completely fine now but house/life stuff took over and only just sat down,feeling good so decided to enter our 5k tomorrow if I can finish work in time,only £4 so nothing lost,be interesting to see what I can do 7 days post DD.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Have you done Cyprus before? Looks pretty good from the quick search I’ve done and could be wrapped in a family holiday. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - no, I haven't done Cyprus before.   As it's a holiday destination when I looked there were no flights out of season from any airports down here.

    I think maybe Keith has and knocked a big chunk off his PB at the time.

    Keith - was it Cyprus where you did that?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - the chart doesn't really help, what's the net drop?

    Good luck Ian, great you feel up for the 5k, it'll probably only really start to hurt in the last km.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, highest point is about 700ft (less than a mile into the race) and it ends at sea level :)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that doesn't take into consideration the few little climbs on the chart though, does it?




  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    No, but it definitely drops about 700ft, unlike something like Dorney which is basically flat, or other courses that start and end in the same place thus negating the effect of any ascent/descent in terms of an advantage. In a way I’m surprised it counts for GFA, but at the time I checked London replied saying it did (I presume nothing has changed). As I say, I’d do it again and if I got GFA there I’d take it - it’s just a personal thing. In the US there are apparently a few courses with quite a lot of elevation loss. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - isn't the allowable drop something like 210m per marathon course?   Anything more is considered as a downhill marathon.  I don't know if Loch Ness is acceptable for London GFA, I don't think it is for Boston or for P of 10 stats.


    6 miles this morning, lovely running weather.   Managed to run down the side of the park without the irate seagull noticing me   :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-For London and Boston there are no rules on drop allowed,the only rule is that the races need to be certified.
    On PO10,it shows the time at Loch Ness, but doesn't count as a PB on their list.
  • Robert OHaraRobert OHara ✭✭✭
    Cal, Panshanger is changing its route, there was a practise run on Saturday but sure it will still take the infamous spot.  May try and ask for a blue circle plaque put there.  

    Big G defo too warm for DD yesterday! I agree I enjoy seeing people doing normal things, I'm sure if I was in London and it was packed I wouldn't be as confident.

    I think I'd count it as my pb as they count it for gfa, mind you that logic is lost as if I had done manchester on a short year and my time plus their adjustment for gfa was a PB I wouldn't count that or the time.

    WJ had some sad news over the weekend, a former runner was running at Barrow marathon 2 weeks ago had a heart attack.  He lost his battle and the turned the life support machine off on Saturday  :'(

    Stow Marries - Race report
    I woke up earlier than needed as Elle was out first as marshalling at St Albans half, my legs and back were aching after a day gardening on Saturday, not the greatest prep.  Had cereal and then made my way.  There wasn't much traffic about but did get stuck behind horseboxes and learner drivers and should have taken the m25 route round.  My Sat Nav took myself and others to a random spot actually on course, thankfully I had driven past it a few weeks ago so looked at a map and tried to work out the route I took and managed to lead the 6 cars to the race start.

    Very low key, backdrop was at the aid station next to the start, had a wrist band which they beeped you in and collect a wristband each lap.  3.3 mile laps 8 for a marathon started at 9:45 and needed to start the last lap by 3:30.

    The route was varied, running through vineyards, one very steep climb of 160ft over 0.2 mile, the downhills were runable and gradual.  A road section few stinging nettles about and some long grass before running past the runway where we saw aeroplanes landing but didn't have to stop anyone as didn't see any taking off. 

    The course was well marked out, however it didn't stop me missing a turn, on my way back to the course met another runner who convinced me that it was the right way but of course it wasnt adding about 1.5 miles to my first lap.  Took some water and a few sweets before little chat with mum who had turned up to support, 2nd lap went the right way this time but it was starting to get warm so decided to take a bottle of water with a tablet.  I got to 3.5 laps and thought it would be best to call it a day, so made my way to the end of the lap rang the bell and had a good training run.

    A good testing route, 15 miles over 1000ft elevation (according to Strava) and was able to get home and watch most the England game, was in my WJ vest and my arms got very burnt, if I went on I was going to change to a shirt for the 2nd half.  Should be out for a run later to stretch the legs and can focus on FVC next month.

    Also now an owner of a Garmin Fenix 6 Pro
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited June 14
    Shades, for a WR the rule is "The overall decrease in elevation between the start and finish shall not exceed 1:1000, i.e. 1m per km", so Malta wouldn't count for a WR due to that.  But when I checked with them at the time, London didn't have a similar rule for GFA (as it happens, Malta couldn't count for a WR for another reason as the start has to be within a certain distance of the finish as the crow flies, to account for any tail wind advantage, which is why Boston doesn't count for a WR).  But if I was close to GFA, I'd even consider going back to Malta as it is potentially a big advantage if chasing a quick time.  It's what we said before about the Nikes - you still need to train etc but that course does provide an advantage if trying to qualify for something.  You mentioned Loch Ness, but that has one significant uphill in it, which Malta does not.

    Ian, on my Pof10, I just checked Loch Ness and it's marked as "MarDH", which means downhill.  But as you say, I'm pretty sure it counts for London GFA.  On my Pof10 it doesn't have my faster times from when I've raced in Europe as they only "include performances from races that have been awarded a UKA license either by runbritain or one of the Celtic national governing bodies", so my time on Pof10 for 2018 is only 3:43, when I did 3:19 and 3:20 that year.  In fact, it shows my time from Shepperdine this year (3:22) as my PB.

    Robert, I was going to mention your club mate but thought I'd wait for you to mention it.  Very sad news indeed :(  Good news on the Fenix 6 Pro - where did you get it from?

    Rest day for me today, but I did another hard race on Zwift last night.  Not as quick as the other race earlier in the week, but "enjoyable" (well, as much as being collapsed over the bike after 35mins can be called enjoyable...).  I haven't tried a run but hammie still isn't quite right as I can feel it when I bend down, for example.  We're off to Plymouth Lido today :) 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, strange though, as it has my Berlin time on Pof10, so in that case I don't know what the criteria are for getting times onto Pof10 as apart from Munich and Berlin, I can't see any more of my European marathons.  Oh well.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Robert - Great run and report. That’s awful news re that runner’s heart attack. That must be a rarity? 

    7 miles this morning for me. Tried out the Invincibles. Very large shoes but the foam is super soft and bouncy so doesn’t feel too bulky. A bit unstable on my dodgy left foot where I tend to overpronate due to how soft it is. Will just be a recovery shoe for when my legs feel beat up I think. 

    Calf is still a bit dodgy. No pain just a tight spot of discomfort when I wake up and then start my run but which tends to go away as the run goes on. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Just had a look and all my foreign races are on there,did you try and manually add malta yourself on run britain? Just had a look at their rules and the drop of 210m makes it invalid on PO10,but is still eligible for GFA
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14
    Robert - sorry to hear about the WJ runner, sad news.

    Well done on your race yesterday, that sounds like a tough course especially in the heat.   You did well to do 15 miles.


    Ian - I thought previously Boston wouldn't accept Loch Ness as GFA times, but maybe they've adjusted that ruling and a certified distance is all that's required now.

    I think the drop at Malta is 201m.


    Big G - Obviously the course at Malta suits you so if you were close to achieving a GFA would be a good race choice for you.   That could give you the edge, mentally more than physically, knowing that you ran well there before.

    I haven't had an EA licence for many years but my results for Berlin and Budapest are listed on RunBritain/Pof10 but not Florence or Slovenia and only Dublin of the many Irish races I've done.   It's a farce really, what's the point of having some races and not others.    All the Irish races I've done are certified by AAI.   Maybe it's only races listed by IAAF that are recorded of the overseas races. 
      
    I'm still on RunBritain as 100MC they can't comprehend that a runner might want to leave a club, or not have a licence, without moving to another EA club, for which they charge a fee.  :# 
     

    Rcouture - you've had that calf niggle before, hope it clears up as quickly as last time.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, fortunately I think it is rare, although Trotters had someone die of a heart attack whilst out on a club training run one evening :(  I wasn't there, but people who were there did all they could but there was nothing to be done.

    Ian, I've not manually added a race to RunBritain before, but I've never really looked at it properly before today.  Even Rotterdam isn't on my Pof10 though, which is a big race.  I could possibly understand something like Bruges not being on there as they had a railway crossing and they said they'd adjust times if people got stopped by the train, although I didn't get stopped.  But scanning down my list of European races most of them are fairly big events really, on certified courses.

    Sorry Shades, but I think it is a physical edge more than a mental one, as physics tells me that it's easier to run downhill compared to on the flat or uphill.  I know I'm repeating myself, but if that course had been the other way around I'd have been slower, as it's physically harder running uphill.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - RT from the Trotters had a heart attack too when out training with the club, he's survived but never recovered 100%.

    That's really odd that Rotterdam is not on your RunBritain listing, that's one of the highest profile races in Europe.

    I disagree, I think you are underestimating the power of the mind.   As a previous PB course for you where you also enjoyed the race gives you a huge advantage when you run it again as you know you can run well and fast in that race.   Unfortunately thwarted by the weather and the race cancellation last time.   If it was more physical you should be able to list your race times and they would be in line with the difficulty of each of the courses.


     
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    We'll have to agree to differ then Shades.  There is absolutely no doubt that with all other things being equal it's an "easier" course compared to a flat course, because physics doesn't lie, but let's leave it.
  • Robert OHaraRobert OHara ✭✭✭
    Rcouture quite often if there is a fatality its usually an underlying problem, Andy had a stoke a few years ago, still doesn't make it easier to take. 

    Big G got it from Very at £480, had a 10% code recently but Elle used it on her new phone recently.

    Shades Bizarre about runbritain not being able to make the changes, I've not looked at it for a couple of years and lost interest when easy parkrun efforts were being ranked higher than some of my best races.

  • Aye i did a good time in Cyprus ;) Despite it being done in March 2009 it is still my 2nd fastest one. Did it cos brother was at Akrotiri at the time so cheap family holiday. Has some uppy bits earlier on and if it dry the dust from the road is a arse. Traffic was er interesting too at times albeit it's meant to be on the lesser used roads not the motorway.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - I've never really used RunBritain website except for looking for marathons to run/permits applied for.

    Keith - you had a brilliant run that day at Cyprus.
    Is Leicester still your PB course?


    Just been watching the PM's briefing, as expected so no change for most of us, unless anyone is planning a wedding 😮
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Very sad, Rob. But very well done on that hot and hilly race.
    So looks like we have to wait another month for parkrun. Well I guess that gives me another month to get into shape.
    Talking of which, my right knee is being a bit of a bugger today. I didn't really feel it on Sunday but I guess the 12 miles were a bit too far as my muscles are obviously as deconditioned as my lungs. It's deffo ITB so I did some rehab at the gym (plus half an hour on the apocelliptical which didn't hurt at all) and then rolled it for 20 minutes this afternoon. There's a lot of tight, sore stuff. Hoping it's eased enough to allow me to run tomorrow but if not, back to the gym.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Went to the 5k tonight,felt fine at the start but after a lap or so I could feel my legs didn't want it,did nearly 6 laps and called it a day,there was a big crowd watching,I was about 200m behind the next runner and my legs felt dead,I was like the scene from chariots of fire but they didn't need to slo-mo it(filmed on the same track).The meeting itself was a great success for the club,went from 4-8 and ages from u11-senior and over 1000 entrants in all events,they had nearly 100 in the long jump,I didn't realise it was so popular.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, that 5K effort sounds horrendous.  Well done for giving it a go though, so soon after DD!

    Went to the lido yesterday and had a great couple of hours there, before heading down to the Barbican for some nice food (Turkish) whilst sitting outside. Felt really lucky to be on there on a great day. It almost felt like a holiday destination as although in a city we weren’t in the city centre itself. At the lido they were limiting it to 100 per 2hr session so there was plenty of space and it was really relaxed. Water cold initially but soon got used to it within a few seconds really. 


  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - you did increase your long run distance very quickly, at least you know it's ITB and can sort it out.

    Have parkrun made an announcement yet?   Probably not, they'll be writing to the Queen this week  :smiley:


    Ian - ouch, that must have been really tough and most unpleasant.   I guess your legs haven't yet forgiven you for DD.  I'd forgotten it was a track race.   Are you going to have a go at the long jump?  ;)


    Big G - lovely photos.   Lido must be really enjoyable when they limit numbers, that will be a negative for users when Covid restrictions are lifted.

    Have you done Plymouth Half?   Lovely race, starting from the Hoe and just before the finish you get to run along the Barbican so you get some of the nice views.


    5 miles this morning, weather lovely and fresh.   Had a really good run, am starting to see an improvement in training pace.    :) When I got back into my flat it felt like a sauna in comparison to the cool weather outdoors. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I’ve not done Plymouth Half. Not sure why really but I’ve never entered it for some reason. Yes, it was really good and relaxed yesterday - just standing there at the end of the lido looking out to Mount Batten to the left, glancing over the sea, and seeing Drake’s Island to the right was fantastic. Paddle boarders out and a few swimmers and I could have been anywhere really, and then turning back around to see the lido and Art Deco building was a great place to be. 
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