Shades Marathon Training



    Cal - Happy Birthday, enjoy the cake 🎂

    Good news on the groin, that would be a good birthday present, i.e. not injured.

    I like running in thunderstorms, I find the thunder and lightening quite exhilarating, more than 10 mins of torrential rain not so much fun though.

    Ian - I think 3:15-3:20 pace would be a sensible pace for MK, of course a lot will depend on the weather as likely to a fair bit warmer/more humid than Windermere or DD.

    That's good about Gran Canaria staging another marathon, November could be a tricky time re Covid though, but who knows.   :/

    You must have quite a few marathons lined up for the autumn now.

    Big G - is the hamstring niggle/injury improving?   Are you still doing your strength work?

    7 miles for me today.   Very dark with promises of rain but annoyingly it just started after I got home, I enjoy a run in the summer rain.   Calf is a bit sore so have cancelled the gym and rebooked for tomorrow instead.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I am still being good with my achilles/lower leg stretches as I do them most days still, but I haven't been doing much else in the strengthening department :(  But I think the rest, foam roller and massage gun is doing it some good.  I woke up this morning and feel I could probably have gone for a short run to test it, but I've got this Zwift race this morning so haven't ran.  If still okay tomorrow, I may try a short run then, as an extra day off won't do any harm anyway.

    Had a nightmare and every stressful couple of hours with Dad yesterday.  He arrived at a rehab place in Torquay and was initially really happy, but I got a very panicked call at 6pm saying they dropped him on his bad leg.  He was very distressed, crying and seemed very scared and was saying he couldn't stay.  I was out with the dog walking up to meet OH after work, but called the place and they explained it from their point of view; basically, they were using a hoist with him, and he's never used one before and the term they used was he was being 'non compliant'.  I called Dad back but he was no better so really not knowing what to, and worried that he may literally call a cab to go home, his partner and I went over and managed to smooth everything over; I spoke to Dad, she spoke to the care staff and she was happy with them.  They didn't drop him; he also confirmed that as he later said they 'nearly' dropped him, so I think it was the hoist he wasn't used to.  If the staff did anything wrong maybe they didn't explain what they were doing and he got worried.  But crises averted, for now at least, but the ups and downs are very, very stressful.  1pm everything was good, 6pm everything was not good.  He's in this place for a couple of weeks, but can stay longer if needed, but at the moment I can't see how he's going to get strong enough to be able to go home, but I've been told by the physios that that is still the plan.  There's talk of providing a hospital bed at home, and different contraptions to help him get around there, but at the moment I just can't see it.  Maybe I'm being pessimistic and he'll make a remarkable recovery in the next couple of weeks....fingers crossed.

    OH and I are going out for a nice meal tonight at a special place over in Torquay for a treat so I'm hoping nothing kicks off this evening!
    Big G - that's sad and scary news about your Dad, and not a situation that you can sort out and make it all better for him.    Hopefully, he will settle down and become less stressed and frightened about his rehab.
    I suppose the physios have to be optimistic to give patients the best chance of some independence.

    That's good news on the hamstring, even your achilles/lower leg stuff will help the hamstring too.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Lots of tentative plans for the autumn but who knows.
    It will be warmer in MK but I put us down for the first wave in case of this so we are starting at 7am.
    Big G-Bad news on your dad,hope he settles for them.
  • Robert OHaraRobert OHara ✭✭✭
    Ian Comrades for me is the race thats been on the list before I was running, having SA friends at cricket talking about the event stuck out for me, I also love Cape Town so Two Oceans appeal to me.

    Cal Happy birthday, nice cooler weather for you!

    Shades after 10mins downpour I don't mind running as it means you can't get any wetter.  No better feeling than doing 20 miles in pouring rain.

    Big G thats awful you dad's not in a good way, hopefully he'll feel more at ease after a bit of time.  Enjoy the meal this evening.

    When do entries to DD usually open? I'll probably enter regardless, will have decided by the end of the year if I need to transfer my place or not after my planned races and seeing how I go.

    2021 plans are done, 2022 are taking shape as have a couple of deferrals. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ugh, sorry about the dad stress, Big G. Enjoy your meal.

    I am such a physio's moved to a new location and I had it in my head that it was number 45, so I went and waited and waited and there was no reply so I went home again. Turns out it was number 54. Epic facepalm. Anyway, I am going to see him next week instead.

    Had a horrible night's sleep due to the heat and humidity and felt like crap this morning - even going out for a brisk walk didn't shift it. So I'll be resting up today and not doing much at all. (It did rain last night but it is still very muggy out and my room is shedding heat very slowly as a result).
    Ian - 7 am start is good, very early breakfast then !

    Robert - perhaps when the 2022 date is announced on Saturday we'll also be told when entries open.   Don't worry we'll remind you anyway 😉

    Cal - maybe subconsciously you just didn't want a physio appointment on your birthday. 😏

    My flat has cooled a lot since this morning, hoping to have a cooler night too.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes I thought,late June,weather could be anything so start as early as possible.I have a feeling OH won't sleep too well so earlier the better,we have the hotel inside the stadium so literally a 2 min walk to the start line and we are staying there the Sunday night so can go back to the room after the race also.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - Sorry to hear about your dad’s turn for the worse. 

    Cal - Hope you have a nice birthday

    Robert - Have you done DD before? I am increasingly tempted 😬

    Rest day for me. My ITB flaring up a touch today. I don’t really understand why this period post marathon is so niggly. HR and legs during runs feel fine but seems like I’m just very fragile with some minor issue after every run . Much more so than when I was doing twice the mileage before the race. Is that normal? I have been careful and slow. 
    Ian - that's a good plan for MK.   You'll be able to have a leisurely roast lunch afterwards too. 

    Rcouture - sometimes niggles just seem to appear/reappear for no reason.   Maybe switch to your stability shoes for your next couple of runs.   I don't think you stopped your strength work for long enough to make a difference to your injury proofing.

    Rest day for me today.   Was cooler last night here, better for sleeping.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    It's a bit cooler here too but still humid and it always takes my flat a few days to shed heat. I think I slept 5 hours last night (but I did sleep a couple of hours yesterday afternoon after lunch!)
    I ventured out for a run this morning around 6:30 and found police in the road. Checked the local news when I got back and apparently someone got shot! My area is pretty safe for the mostpart - most of the violent crime is young lads stabbing each other in Streatham (which is what happened outside the Lidl last week) but I've not encountered a shooting, let alone on my doorstep.
    Anyway, got 6 miles done in the rain, which I quite enjoyed. Knee and hammy were a bit grumpy but I didn't move much yesterday so I'm quite stiff.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Had a lovely meal out last night.  A real treat.  I'm not a foodie really (usually I'm a "quantity over quality" type of chap), but it was very good and we both had the tasting menu which was 8 courses.  All excellent, but one stand out for me was a crab dish that had an "Apple Geranium Sorbet" that was a real "Oh wow", moment.  The other standout was the main dish which had a beef fillet alongside a "Sticky Braised Beef", which was proper melt in your mouth stuff.  Gorgeous.  Not pretentious though, and somehow they'd made it feel really relaxing and welcoming.  We booked about 5 weeks ago and yesterday was the earliest we could get in, so it was good to see it busy.

    It was a late night though as we were there 3.5hrs, and by the time we got home, let the dog out and had a cuppa it was 1am.  OH is off today and seeing a friend for a walk, and I'm going to go and see Dad in a bit which I know will be stressful :(  

    Regarding running/cycling, I did the Zwift race yesterday morning and it was a tough session, but enjoyable with all the chat on Discord.  We had the full compliment of the allowed 8 in my team, which was good, and the leader knew the course very well in terms of the inclines etc, which was very helpful.  Then this morning I went out for approximately 4.5-miles and hammie felt okay.  I could feel a little bit of tightness but I didn't feel it was making my gait any different, so I was happy to carry on in those circumstances.  It was pretty slow though :(  I'll see what it's like tomorrow before deciding what to do.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Cal - That’s quite scary. Surprised you didn’t hear anything overnight. 

    Shades - I haven’t worn stability shoes for about 8 months and have sent my old ones to charity. However I’ve now tried the invincibles twice and they’re too squishy and unstable for me so am returning them. Looks like will be an all NB rotation for daily trainers with the rebel v2 which are great and the 1080s which although boring, get the job done. 

    7 miles this morning. Got absolutely soaked. Was fun but I struggle to keep Hr down with heavy rain for some reason. Weird as it’s not like I’m running around scared 😀
    Cal - it's positively chilly now in my flat.  Thanks to the N breeze today, usually takes a few days for my flat to cool too.

    Was shooting a gang thing or domestic?  Bit of a shock for you.

    Big G - that meal sounds divine, a lovely treat.

    Hope your Dad is OK today.

    Good you're back running too.

    Rcouture - I didn't realise you'd got rid of all your stability shoes.  I alternate my mild stability with my neutral shoes in training.   I love my NB 1080's, could never find them boring, they are especially good on the hills.

    Now you're returning the Invincibles I guess you'll be shoe shopping again 😉
    Any particular shoes in mind?
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited June 18
    Shades - I have the 1080 v11s and I believe you and Big G have the v10s? I think for the v11s they wanted to make them firmer so they are more versatile but that has meant they have less bounce.  I still like them a lot though and they are stable enough for me. It seems like a good combo with the rebel v2 which are lower drop and bouncy/much faster. If those two work in a rotation for daily training then I am good to go with the endorphin speeds for long runs, Hyperion tempo for tempo and next % for races. Only thing I have my eye on is the novablast 2 when they come out at the end of the month. Depends how stable they are though. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I didn't buy them with this purpose in mind, but of my 3 marathons + DD this year, all have been in a pair of 1080s.   I know they weren't designed as a racing shoe, but I've found them okay for that.  I wouldn't automatically reach for them for an interval session or a 5k, 10k or Half even, but they've been okay so far for the marathons I've done.  My 3:22 at Shepperdine I was bouncing along in them, but felt I needed a longer pair for DD, and they suited me well for that too.  But the reason I got them in the first place was to take the pressure of the achilles.  I must admit I had thought the midsole was more or less the same between the v10s and v11s, with the main change being a more breathable upper in the v11s....but I could well be wrong on that!
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - I don’t have the v10s so don’t know what they are like but from the reviews I’ve seen (mainly from Kofuzi on YT actually) that seems to be the main change. I think NB want the More v3 to be their super cushioned shoes. I find the v11s quite firm compared to other shoes and not very lively, but they are comfortable and stable enough to just rack up miles. I also think they look nice which is the most important thing 😀
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rcouture, I looked into the Novablast myself (I will be shopping for something to replace my Epics when my last pair wears out) and they are apparently not the most stable - fun to wear but awful on hills. I guess you could try them out but they may not be what you're looking for.
    Rcouture - the Novablast look to have the same squidgy heel as the Invincibles, but I've only seen pics not actual shoes to compare. 

    Yes, I only have the v10 of the NB 1080's, 4 pairs now  :)   The v10 is a much nicer looking shoe as the main difference between the v10 and v11 is the change in the upper.   I'm not usually swayed by the look of a shoe but the look of the v10 I love, and of course better price than the v11, last pair of v10's I paid £75.   I think any change in midsole is miniscule and some reviews just say the v11 feels the same as the v10, but I haven't tried them so no personal experience.

    The NB More have a lower drop 4mm, so for me that stops them from being a distance shoe.   I have a pair and they're lovely but wouldn't do anything further than 10 miles in such a low drop shoe, same with my Cliftons.

    Big G -the 1080's are recommended as a marathon shoe.   Most marathon runners don't wear a 'racing' shoe for marathons.   

    5 miles this morning to see if calf is OK, it is.   Lovely morning.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I ticked off something that I've been chipping away at on Zwift for the last few months.  If Zwifters ride 50000m of ascent in the game, they unlock a bike that people call the Tron Bike, which is sort of a glowing bike.  Yesterday AM I ticked off a hilly route that replicates Mont Ventoux and then late yesterday afternoon I went up Alpe de Huiz to finally get over 50000m, which took me 6d 14hr 45mins in total to get :) Very tired legs this morning!
    To all interested Shadies, from DD FB page...

    Couple of dates for your diary!
    The 2022 DD will take place on Saturday 11th June.
    Entries will open online on Sunday 17th October 2021 at 7pm.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Nice that your calf is ok. Will mark that date in the diary (for consideration 😬). 

    I actually tried the novablast 1s and they were only slightly dodgy. Because my instability is weird and only on the forefoot of my left foot, there’s seemingly no real rhyme or reason as to which shoes will be ok for me. Apparently the new version is more stable hence my interest. 

    10 miles this afternoon. Perfect conditions for it. Still have bad cardiac drift on runs longer than 8 miles post mara but am sure that will sort itself. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-Don't worry there will be reminders closer to the time.
    Shades-Glad to hear the calf is improving.
    Easy 10 after work,only just recovered from DD and time to go again.
    Rcouture - nothing really beats trying on a shoe and getting the feel of the fit, but we have to do the best we can with internet shopping.    That's one of the things I miss about big marathon Expos, being able to just try on a new type shoe to see how it feels.   I have one foot that pronates slightly, doesn't flex so well and is a fraction wider than the other.

    Ian - at least DD DOMS should only be at the most once a year.   You'll have 100% bounce back by next weekend.

    8 hilly miles for me, we've had a lot of rain and it's very humid but not unpleasant as fairly cool today.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Had a really distressed Dad on the phone at 6am this morning. It all kicked off again at the rehab place yesterday and he phoned me to go and get him to take him home, and I said "No, Dad. I can't do that". He got really angry, frustrated, upset and sarcastically/frustratedly said "well, thanks for nothing", told me he didn't want to see me again and hung up. I know he felt I was his last hope of getting him out, but I can't go and get him as he can't go home as he is. It's just impossible. I tried to call back, but no answer, so spoke to the care staff and again they were having issues with him using the hoist, but told me not to worry and were very calm/calming to me. They called back an hour or so later and said he was happy, eating, watching TV etc. 

    Anyway, I of course was going to ignore what he said about him not wanting to see me again, and was going over today anyway for Father's Day....I'd already planned this. But he called this morning saying things like "I'm sorry, son", "I shouldn't have said what I said", "Will you still come and see me?", "Will you still talk to me?", etc etc absolutely sobbing his heart out. I just said "of course I'm still seeing you, don't worry, I'm thinking of you all the time", etc etc, but when I hung up I was overwhelmed myself. Hearing him like that is so upsetting/distressing. I just don't know what else to do; he's in the best place and I think he does know that really, but he's just so desperately unhappy  It's a nice place, comfortable, nice food, nice gardens, etc. If it was some shit hole I'd take him out, but it's's nice.

    Thankfully I have a very understanding partner who is supporting me, I can still Zwift, go for runs etc, and I have a flexible life where I can see him when I need. But I'm just at a loss really. I don't think there is anything else I can do as I'm doing all I can and I'm doing my best, but he's still utterly dejected.

    Not sure if this is the done thing, but I wonder if he may need some meds to help stabilise him a bit. I may investigate that.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that Big G, you may be right about the meds. The hoist may be triggering panic attacks or similar. I remember my mum got very panicky on the stairlift my parents installed - it had very little clearance and she hated it. She was never a nervous woman in all the time I knew her.

    Yesterday was a gym day - 30 mins on the elliptical and then some lower body rehabby stuff. I did some lateral step ups and my knee did not like that one bit so I canned it after one set. It was a bit cranky on today's run but felt more stiff than stabby.

    I decided to stick to 10 miles today but to make it a little quicker. I did a route encompassing both Brixton and Wandsworth prisons, and also explored some backstreets a bit. I found a small housing estate with roads named after 80s athletes - Daley Thompson, Bev Callender and Keith Connor. I also realised I could have done two windmills as well as two prisons but I didn't think of that at the time. I can probably do a three windmill run once I'm up to bigger miles, encompassing Brixton, Wandsworth and Wimbledon.
    The last two miles were sub-10s which I'm happy with but I still have a long way to go, fitness-wise. I need to find a way to improve my fitness without causing any further niggles. Not easy.
    Big G - that is heart breaking to hear that your Dad is so distressed and getting very anxious at times.   I can't see that there's anything more you can do than you are already doing.   He's definitely in the right place but it's getting him to accept that.   
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, I think you're right about the hoist.  When he calls me whilst they're trying to get him onto it, he's very distressed and it almost seems to me like he's hyperventilating.  I think it's probably sort of a pride thing as well, where he hasn't had to use one before, so it's a shock to him that he has to use one now, and is kind of a proof that he is in a worse state than he was.  But I saw him for an hour or so around lunchtime, and then 30mins or so late afternoon and he seemed a bit better today.  Let's see what tomorrow brings.

    Anyway, no running today, but I did do 1hr on Zwift earlier on.
    edited June 21
    Cal - well done on the 10 miles. I take it the hip/groin/ITB niggle has eased for now.

    Big G - glad you were able to spend some time yesterday with your Dad.   It's unfortunate that you can't be there the next time they need to use the hoist to reassure him.

    6 miles this morning, a bit humid but the light rain is cooling and makes for lovely running weather.  :)

    Gym later

  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭

    7 miles this morning. Just missed the rain as got home at about 6:45 but I did spot two foxes having a play in the common. 
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