Shades Marathon Training



  • Well done, Big G - heard Parke was a tough one. Good that your dad has accepted the carers.

    Today didn't go so well. Plan was Mile End parkrun (which I've done before, but it's the closest to Victoria Park) followed by the Pride 10K. 
    After a mile warm-up I did the parkrun and felt fine (I did have my concerns as I've been sluggish all week and felt a bit spacey yesterday). I opted not to push too much but to stay around 9 minute pace, so I came in at 28:17, which was well down the filed but at least top of my age group...Mile End has a young demographic so there were only three VW50s anyway.
    Walked from there to Victoria Park for the Pride 10K, which turned out to be a couple of miles (but it's a nice walk along the canal).
    There was a reasonable gap between the two events but I certainly felt more like sitting on the grass than running a race at that point...didn't help that it was over 20 degrees by then, too. But no excuses. It was diabolical. I ended up over 1 hour and 1 minute. I've not been over an hour for a 10K since I started doing races. Yes I did a parkrun first, but I did that in 2019 (and equalled my PB at the parkrun then got my second fastest 10K time despite very windy weather). I wasn't expecting much this time, but I'd expect to be somewhat under an hour.
    I held 9 minute pace for the first mile but got steadily worse (looking at my Garmin stats, I go from 180 cadence and 1m stride length for the first mile down to 167 cadence and 0.9 stride length for mile 6). First mile was OK but then legs got worse and worse. No phantom chest pains or anything like that...I just couldn't run.
    The best thing I can say about this run is that I really, really wanted to give up and walk, but I didn't (although I stopped briefly to drink from a water fountain on the last lap as there was no water in this race and it was warm).
    Once I got through the finish I had to sit on the grass for a bit to recover. I was done. Although I then had to walk 2 miles back to Mile End tube, of course.

    My diet's decent and I've actually slept OK this week (I still wake up a few times per night, but I've managed over 7 hours for a few nights now) so I'm running out of things to blame. Still haven't heard back from the cardiologist but the fact they've been slow makes me think there's nothing very serious going on. So I'm mystified.
    I'm not sure about Ealing now...I can't face another awful half marathon but the optimistic part of me still thinks I should give it a shot (but maybe not do parkrun the day before). I don't know. I'm wondering if I should concentrate on parkruns and 5Ks for the time being as it's speed endurance that seems to be the problem. I would definitely appreciate any thoughts.
  • On a brighter note, Rob's finished....well done Rob, told you you would! Fab effort.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-Brilliant running,very well done, I wish the checkpoints on the tracker had distance or pace between them,shouldn't be that hard to do.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Very well done Robert, looking forward to the race report.   I also found it frustrating not knowing how far the CPs were, unless I was missing something on the tracker.  

    Cal, sorry to read you had a bad run, but to be honest I can't see how running a parkrun at  basically marathon pace (or faster?), plus a couple of miles walk, is conducive to running a fast 10K.  Stopping in between runs I find tough in terms of trying to get going again, certainly at a fast pace, and it was hot and it sounds like you didn't have much to drink (did you get a drink before you started the 10k?  What about a snack, as it was a late start to the 10k?).  Just a general point, and I am not trying to be funny, but I always notice that you kind of instinctively think of 'speed' or 'speed endurance' when things aren't going great with your running, but I can't help but think that is the wrong approach.   

    (All the above is presuming that nothing is wrong and the test results come back with no big issues, which you hinted you thought might be the case).  
  • Cheers for the feedback about the app, I’ll pass it on and see if it’s something they can do.  

    Trying to sleep but it’s just not happening had a fantastic day out on the trails but never want to see a hill again! 
  • Big G - I took water with me and had a gel before the 10K (I'd had breakfast at home - I can't eat solid food within three hours of running, sometimes longer, due to reflux). But you are right that I may have been a bit dehydrated, which won't have helped.
    As I mentioned, I'd done a parkrun/Pride10K double before in 2019 and did well at both (plus I've done the parkrun NYD double twice) so it wasn't unknown territory...just that this year, my body isn't coping as well.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, it is hard not to compare with previous years when we do the same events (I do it all the time!), but a different day/week/year can produce different results for all sorts of different reasons.  Regarding your plan to focus on 5ks/parkruns, it is strange as you're doing decent mileage (I just had a look on your Strava and an average of 38 miles a week for the last 4 weeks isn't bad is it?), but you're just not happy with the paces you're hitting.  Is it possible you are doing a bit too much at this point, and maybe overtraining a bit, and a rest may help?  Of course nothing wrong with focussing on parkruns/5k if you think it will help the mojo etc, but I was just thinking that the mileage isn't unusual for you in that you haven't ramped it up over the last few weeks.  Let's hope the test results come back soon and they're clear so at least you can put that out of your mind, and then move forward with your running from there.   
    edited September 19
    Robert - well done, fantastic result.    Looking forward to the report.   I loved the names of the checkpoints being listed on the app, especially Grims Ditch.

    Cal - so sorry to hear you had a bad 10k.   I honestly don't know the answer, the obvious is anaemia, lack of Vitamin D, virus or post virus fatigue syndrome.   You did well at your parkrun, as you've been doing in the early stages of your half marathons and other parkruns too but it seems to be when you need to tap into that endurance that you usually have loads of that you have problems.    However, yesterday's 10k was probably made worse by being dehydrated before starting and to be honest if you didn't feel like doing the 10k and would have rather sit on the grass then maybe that's what you should have done.   I think that the fact that you can't refuel close to running probably contributes to your problem when you're not on top form.   For now I think you need to listen to your body and stop trying to force yourself out there and over longer distances or faster running.   If you have some sort of post viral syndrome you can't train it out of yourself it's a matter of gently gently just doing what you feel you have the energy for.    I do hope you get your consult soon so that can hopefully be dismissed.
    I agree with Big G, this is nothing to do with needing speed endurance training.  If anything it's more like needing a few months base training, no racing, no speedwork at all and starting at low mileage and gradually building up the mileage.

    Big G - good luck today. 

    8 miles for me this morning, nice quiet morning out on the roads.
  • I am starting to wonder if dehydration and/or salt/mineral loss is the problem - I always have a pint glass of water which I sip from throughout the day, but being post-menopause I now sweat a lot more, particularly at night. Over the past few months I've found I wake up during the night thirsty and have to refill the glass, which used to last me until morning previously. I do sometimes take a hydration tab before going out on a run, but maybe I need to do this every day.

    Anyway... Today wasn't what I expected! I wasn't sure whether to run at all after yesterday, but I actually wanted to so I went out, thinking I'd do a few miles recovery. However, I was surprised to find my legs quite snappy and responsive. I found I was getting a bit quicker with each mile so decided I might as well make it into a progression run and did 8 miles, with mile 7 the quickest at 9:13 pace and the last mile cooling down. Very much enjoyed it, too.
    On that basis, I will give Ealing a go next Sunday...I am volunteering at my local parkrun so I'm not tempted to do a fast run the day before. 

    Cal - well that's great you had a decent run today.   You could be right about dehydration.  I don't take water to bed and never wake thirsty.   
    No need to take hydration tablets though, shouldn't be necessary except for a long run.

    Have you been recently checked for diabetes, thirst can be a symptom?  

    Great news that you'll do Ealing on Sunday.
  • I had my bloods done along with my first ECG, at the docs, so I'd assume not...but I am a salty sweater, so there's that.
  • Rob - Brilliant race, well done. Can’t wait for the report. 

    Big G - Good luck today 

    Cal - Good to hear you had a better run today. 

    20 miles for me this morning through Richmond park and back along the Thames. Gorgeous morning for it. Been feeling a bit fragile so I was even more uptight about keeping to HR than usual so I was pleased with the pace at MAF of 9min/mi and the lack of cardiac drift. Going out with the girls and my sister to my favourite Italian place on the river for lunch as a delayed birthday celebration for my sis so looking forward to replenishing the carbs!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    What a hideous distance!  7K into it I was thinking ‘I am never doing one of these ever again!’, interspersed with a few swear words. Awful!

    But it was a great event, flat and fast, and conditions were absolutely perfect for a fast tine. I was in the first wave of 30 and think I finished about 25th, and I did 39:52 (watch time, awaiting chip time), so again I’m really pleased. Can’t complain with PBs on consecutive weekends!

    I actually wrote ‘6:26’ on my arm is that is the pace I needed. You can see I slowed a bit in the 5th and 6th miles and I was really struggling here, but managed to hold on to sneak under the 40 for the first (and quite possibly only!) time. 

    Cal - that's good if you're recently checked for diabetes, another possibility to eliminate.

    Rcouture - enjoy feasting on Italian food perfect after a good long run.

    Big G - congrats, sub 40, job done.  It certainly was flat, looking at the elevation.

    Any news on Brighton and their retrospective permit?   I did look on FB this morning and a girl that sent a message to Brighton & Hove council asking if they knew the event had no liability insurance and permit was then blocked on Twitter by Brighton marathon.   Her message wasn't rude at all.   If they'd had their own insurance I think they would have said so, not just blocked her.
  • Excellent, Big G. Yeah, I hate 10Ks too...all the intensity of a 5K but twice as far. Ugh.

    Shades, sounds like they didn't, then. Good job no one died.
    Cal - the lack of insurance wouldn't necessarily affect the runners, we all sign a disclaimer it would be public liability if injury or damage to property etc.   But the council and police will not give permission for events to go ahead without PL insurance.

    I don't think anyone died, lots of comments about a lot of participants needing medical treatment, lack of training I expect for the majority.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks Cal/Shades.  Similar to the sub-90 Half, the sub-40 has been a bit of a thing that I have wanted to do, so I am really pleased.  I went though half in 19:45 so over 20mins for the second half was cutting fine, but I got it done.  With the Half I had this feeling of a race well ran, but with this it is more of a relief and the thought I may never have to do another one again was very motivating!   
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-That is a really impressive run,looking very good.
    Big G-Brilliant time there mate,well done.
    Forget that only time rubbish,now it's done it will be like the sub 4,keep hammering it down over time.
    Big G - so whilst you're in PB shape is there a 3rd PB that you're hoping to break?
  • Big G that’s super news your dad has backed down and willing to trial home help, hopefully he gets a good level of service and continues for as long as needed.  Cracking stuff well done on the sub 40

    cal great run today, it’s days like that after a tough day yesterday that says you’re in a better place than you give yourself credit for, a ‘easy’ parkrun and 2 mile walk before a 10k will take its toll.  Some decent time on your feet though.

    shades re the woman who has been blocked on Twitter by Brighton, I think it was the number of tweets she sent and copied them into various authorities rather than the content of the one tweet.  But blocking her won’t make the problem go away! 

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, for PBs I’ve got my eye on races for 5-mile (should be easy to break if I do enter a race), 5K (may not happen, but if I do enter a race I’ll give it a good go) and marathon at Dorney or Newport (depends on many things, and I’m not sure it’s a given!). 

    As has become usual with the marathon, I always feel I should have done more long runs but from my Half time I’m in reasonable shape, presuming the endurance is there and I can stay injury free. 
  • Cw50 race report

    Pre race
    Left home about 2pm, train into London, tube to Paddington and got off the train and my knee ballooned, I was tempted to turn around and forgot it, carried on and train to Pangborne where my air bnb was.

    Lasagne and g bread of dinner from the co op and an early night, slept well till the 6 o clock alarm apart from 10:30 where my dinner repeated! Cereal and coffee for breakfast, also ran out of precision hydration 15 min walk to station, one short hop and 10 min walk to race HQ.

    walked in collected number, tracker and dropped bag before walking to the start, bumped into someone who’s blog I read from another year and missed the cut off, she was confident about this year (but didn’t make it but only made it to cp4).

    Start to Tolkers Green 10 miles
    it was a rolling start between 8 and 8:30, I let everyone go who was waiting but was over the start line within 90 seconds.  First few miles were along the Thames path, don’t be fooled, it’s not flat! still a fair few climbs which I conserved energy and walked the scenery was stunning and made it hard to concentrate on the turns as the course is pretty twisty, you'll be admiring a view and miss a turning. arrived at CP1 about 5-10 mins ahead of my target and with the diversion.

    The plan wasn’t to waste time at the CP so was in and out within 3 mins a refil of 330ml water and a tailwind and my go to handful of wine gums and couple of sausage rolls and made my way.

    Tolkers Green to Bix 17.7 miles
    The next 8 miles were relatively flat with a fair amount of shade but also a lot of rooted areas so had to be careful under foot.  It started to play on my mind my longest training run was 17 miles and wondered how I'd feel later on as another 33 miles on top of that is a long way able to stick to 11 min mile and the odd chat with runners I soon learnt that all runners had the same story that they hadn't trained for the even or were and back from injuries.  It was starting to get warm early and knew hydration would be key for the race.  Arrived at Bix and added a couple of cups of coke, once again out in 6 mins.

    Bix to Ibstone 25.8 miles
    The next 8 miles was the part of the race I was looking forward to as you get to run through Turville which is where Vicar of Dibley is/ was filmed plus other TV/ Films.  Also up a hill is Cobstone Windmill which is featured in my sisters old favourite film chitty chitty bang bang.  Shortly after the leaving the checkpoint I was starting to struggle to run, not sure why but took a walk and went to get a sip of water and realised I'd left my water at the CP.  It was getting warm and only had 330ml of tailwind and was getting warmer.  This section was probably the toughest as had various climbs including the one out of  Turville upto Ibstone. Arrived at Turville took a few photos and my camera phone ran out of battery (main phone was in bag) so that was the end of the photos and set off up the chalk hill with footprints for grip reported to be 35% gradient at place, it was warm and I was struggling to balance, I had lost sight of people ahead of me and there was a group closing in behind me, I was wondering if my legs would work again and thankfully at the top of the hill they did and made it to the next checkpoint.

    I needed fluids on board, I had controlled by bottle to get me to the check point and smashed coke and water down me, then opted to fill 3 bottles, 2 water and a tailwind.  Had a little sit down to collect my thoughts, I had accumulated 40 mins ahead of my target and 80 mins before cut off.  My watch with the diversion had clocked marathon distance in 5hr 20 which 2 months ago at an easier course FVC I clocked 6 miles.

  • Ibstone to Swyncombe 33.2 miles 

    A short hop, just 7.4 miles to the next aid station shortly after I felt bloated but needs must, I then felt a niggle at the top of my calves and started to cramp, I considered calling it a day and walking back but carried on forward after a short walk I was able to shuffle again.  Probably the longest climb of the day upto Christmas Common and half way on this section I cramped again but managed to walk it off before some runnable bits, I kept setting myself mini targets keep moving forward and bank more time each mile.  I was still feeling good and with the time I banked I knew that I had to stay cramp free.

    Boy it was getting warm, but it had just gone 4pm, it had to start to cool down over the next couple of hours!!!!  Arrived at the CP and felt okay but took a bit of time out and glad I did, had a good laugh about it all being south so thats downhill right? Before joking about spending too long in checkpoints and passing people you passed... on that note I was off.

    Swyncombe to Grims Ditch 40.9 miles
    My original race target was to get to Grims Ditch and most probably chuck my number in, not today it wasn't... A few miles of undulations which I tried to keep around 15 min miles which gave me a bigger bank of time, I started to think could I get to the finish earlier so I didn't have a 2 hour wait for the train home.  I still wasn't getting excited I still had 15 miles and was expecting it to get thought, between 4 and 5 hours still on my feet was a daunting prospect but after the undulations met someone doing their 1st and we had a walk and a chat for a bit before having a shuffle to the final checkpoint.

    After taking 15 mins at the last checkpoint I wanted to be in and out quick here, no wasting time, no messing just get it done! Thankfully there wasn't any space to get comfortable here, standing room only unless you dropped, I saw a few numbers handed in and they weren't having mine.  Is this really happening... I was just about to leave with no food and I noticed M&S sausage rolls... how could I refuse?.

    Grims Ditch to Goring
    9 miles to go, 2.5 hours would see a sub 12 hour finish, 9 miles isn't far then you calculate your pace and its a long old slog! I walked out the checkpoint with sausage rolls, I didn't really want them but thought I better eat something as couldn't be bothered to reach in my bag for a gel or try a gel I hadn't used for before.  I also opted to keep the headtorch in my bag and would fish it out if needed.  The scenery had been stunning throughout the day, then we had 2 hours of sunsets over the Chilterns, this helped keep mind off the task in hand.  I buddied up with someone for a bit as we walked and shuffled, this came across a group of supporters, my eyesight not great and was tired, wasn't until I heard Elle scream my name, she had driven 70 miles to see me 7 miles out from the finish and to collect me, no going into London and back out again on the trains which was a huge relief.

    Before I knew it 10km to go... that's not far, then 5 miles... I was starting to struggle as I couldn't run the downs and there seemed to be more downs than ups and had to keep on walking more than I wanted.  Looking at the results 12 people passed me on the last section which I'm not bothered about in the slightest.  Even 3 miles to go there was still an hour to go, thats a long time when you're tired, the back of my left knee was really hurting now but just had to get it done.  The daylight had gone with about 2.5 miles left but was still duskish so carried on without the torch as wasn't too bad underfoot. With about 2 miles to go that was when I ran with a smile, I had done it, I got my walk up to a 'speedwalk' and then managed to run on the flat, got to the road and knew it was 2/3 of a mile, no more than 10 mins and was going to get inside 12 hours.   Crossed over the line in 12hr 50 in 144th place out of 186 finishers and 212 starters.

    Collected medal, a few photos, collected t shirt then bag and a hot dog,  Elle knew what I wanted after that run the most and got me a pack of beers which went down very well! 

    Overall option of CW50  
    The W is for Wonderland, ‘wonder' a feeling of amazement and admiration, caused by something beautiful, remarkable, or unfamiliar nothing else needs to be said (apart from C stands for Chilterns).

    Centurion amaze me with their seamless organisation, great volunteers who race themselves and know exactly what to say and support you, treated like royalty at the aid stations and nothing is too much effort.  

    Kind words from the race directors James and Nici who said it was great to see me on the start line and a huge congratulations at the end.

    On reflection
    I would make sure I have enough salt tablets, I'm going to order some now before Dorney Lake, also not to eat lasagne ready meal the night before the race.  Other than making sure I pick up water up at the aid station there isn't much I'd do differently, I'm glad I didn't recce the course as I don't think I'd have ran knowing what lied ahead for me.  As for training and diet... that's another story!!! But have to take credit where it's due I got it done where I really wasn't expecting it!

    Next up:
    2 weeks Dorney Lake Marathon
    3 weeks local 10k
    4 Weeks Andy Golding Memorial Run
    6 weeks Stort 30 


    Robert - epic report, really enjoyed reading that and great photos.   I didn't realise you hadn't done that race before.   35% climbing is mountaineering that must have been tough on the legs.

    You deserved that race number 1 after all you've been through.

    So thoughtful of Elle to drive that far and surprise you with a lift home and a beer or two.

    Your report almost makes me want to do another off road ultra. 🤬

    I didn't know that girl had sent tweets to multiple recipients, I don't go on Twitter so only picked up the comments from FB.   But I think she did the right thing, marathon organisers haven't responded to runner's queries about the race permit.

    Big G -all of those distances are achievable PB's, just need the right races, conditions and feeling good on the day.

    I wouldn't worry about lack of long runs, you've done some good training and it's your head that will deal with the last few miles.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    39:50 official time so good to have it confirmed.

    Outstanding report Robert, and very well done again!  Dorney will feel like a breeze ;)  The bit when you said that 2-miles to go you knew you had it done made me smile, as I had that at my first DD.  It is a great feeling knowing you're going to do it.  Congrats.
  • Shades Brighton have been very active re-tweeting anything positive about their race, thankfully no one has jumped onto the tweets and ruined people’s moments.  They do need to provide answers and need to be accountable, it’s not a cheap race and it seems that these are major mistakes.  

    My only other 50 miler was NDW50 in 2018 other than that it’s 3x 50km and 1 x 30 miler.  I had no knowledge on the course other than few blogs and vlogs. I’m sure that moment has passed already about wanting to do one.  I’m not even sure I want to at the moment! I do have wendover woods November next year thou.

    Big G it’s a great feeling probably better than the one at the finish.  I’ve booked in a very light massage tomorrow and will need to get the legs moving gently soon but Dorney will about getting round. 

    As for my mobility, a bit of tightness in behind my left knee and a bruised left ankle.  Everything else is just sore.  Been for some short walks this morning for breakfast then offered to buy elle a nice bottle of wine to say thanks… £40 bottle of gin later 😆 

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-Brilliant report,climbing sounds epically horrific,glad you enjoyed it.
    Last decent length run today,16 miles,felt strong and good and really enjoyed it,had to work 5.30-1.30 so couldn't go in morning as planned but it felt good knowing I could do that after 8 hours work.Same feelings as Big G in not enough long runs,only done 1x20,and 3 other 18 or more I think,but 3 months ago I'd have been delighted to be in this position so looking at the positives.
  • Fab report, Rob...and a 35% hill...really? Jeebers.
    Kind of make me want to do a 50. I think I need to do a 50K first, though.
    Ian, sounds like you've prepared perfectly.
  • Ian - that’s some great running after a shift at work! You done brilliantly to manage yourself through injuries and niggles and put yourself in a good place at the start line.  The rest will happen naturally.

    Cal - I can fully recommend off road running especially marathon distance or longer. xnrg have a 50k around Tring which is fairly easy to get to, did it in 2017 and really enjoyed it.  The course was well marked and aid stations were great.

    Shades - for the sheet official time 11:51:43

    sleeping like a baby at the moment, did well to get 5 hours in but now awake will be a long night.  Off work tomorrow as couldn’t face going into the office 😆 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I did 30mins very easy on Zwift yesterday as I felt the legs needed it, and just about to head out for a short run.  Strange isn't is it, as legs feel worse today than after the half!  Hammie is grumbling again a bit, too.

    Alphafly Next% are £90 off at Sportsshoes if anyone is interested.  I presume the club discount will work as well? 
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