Shades Marathon Training



  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    Ian, that is great news about Chicago.

    Shades, yes, that is the thing.  I confess I am chasing numbers now, but I just want the 100 done and dusted, with my main events being Manchester and Belfast.  The pandemic has impacted many things, and my route to the 100 is one of them, and I want it done now.  It is not that I am fed up of marathons at all, because I am not, but it can be stressful planning things and having cancellations etc (I don't want to even think about how many DNSs I have had over the last few years), and I just want it out of the way now as I have been stuck around 80-90 for what seems like a very long time.  Even this year, with quite a lot of events around, I will 'only' have done 12.  I know that is more than enough for many people, but I can fairly comfortably do more than that usually and still perform well at key races.

    Anyway, a rare night out for us last night, as we went to see a band at Exeter Uni.  They are not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but we went to see The Darkness and they were superb.  He is a real character and naturally very, very funny, with lots of interaction with the crowd, and they played all the hits, plus the best 3 or 4 tracks off the new album.  I saw them in 2003 - 18 years ago now, crikey!  There was one moment when the drummer broke the pedal on the kick drum and the drum tech came out and fixed it between songs - Hawkins, the front man, did an improv with the band encouraging the crowd to let Elliot (the drum tech) know how awesome he was :)  My OH, being something of a fitness pro, was very impressed with Hawkins when he did a headstand on the base drum, whilst moving his legs very quickly in time to the music. "That takes some doing!", she exclaimed.  I concurred. 

    They played their Xmas hit for the encore - "Too early for all that!", I hear you cry.  I would usually agree but they came out in Xmas outfits so big that the drummer could hardly see what he was doign, and the bass player couldn't bend down to pick something up.  Of course Hawkins came out in his skimpy Santa jumpsuit, and I am pretty sure he wore that the last time I saw them in 2003.  I don't sit there taking pics all night (promise!), but I had to grab this one.

    Reading all that back, I guess you probably had to be there :)  But we had a great night and left with a huge smile on our faces.  A bit of a risk wth all the Covid stuff going on I know, but we felt as safe as we could be and actually got seats with a lot more space rather than standing in the mosh pit.  It was a great night, but ears are still ringing this morning!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-Thats a bummer being so close,especially as you'd have probably got it.I missed London by 22secs in 2020,didn't know at the time,and it got cancelled anyway and I got the club place this year but was pretty annoyed when I found out.
    Rcouture - So 172 gives you 91%  if max is 190 which is high for a marathon.  195 would give you 88% which is more like it.   I usually register 85% ish but when running harder for a time I have done 88% but don't think I've done any higher.

    That's gutting about missing Chicago GFA time by one minute.   When will you know the ballot/lottery results?

    That's good that the ITB isn't too bad and legs are OK too.

    Big G - I agree and understand your thinking re the 100 just wanting to get it done and then you can move on and set other goals/plans that you've maybe had to put to one side.

    That looks like a great gig, I'd have enjoyed that.

    Taunton marathon entries have opened, I think I'll enter, screws up my numbers plan but never mind, I'll think of another plan. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    Big G-I listened to a podcast with Justin Hawkins,can't remember exactly but he runs quite a bit hence the fitness.
    Found it ,it's a couple of hours long to be fair
    Now Chicago is sorted I can plan the rest of my Autumn campaign.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I hadn't realised that.  I will check the podcast out.  Thanks.  He has recently started a low key/budget YouTube Channel which is amusing.  He recently did a video about Tailor Swift as she has apparently re-recorded all her previous back catalogue so she can have control over her music, but her doing that screwed up their album release as Swift forced their album out of the top 10.  He was doing it all in a joking way in the video.  Last night he referenced it as they are apparently at number 1 in the rock charts.  It was funny as he genuinely didn't seem to know what day of the week it was.  He asked "What day is it anyway?", and when the crowd shouted "It's Monday!", he replied "Whoo hoo, that means we're still Number 1!  Yeah!".    :D 
  • Shades - Yes I think that makes a lot more sense re the max HR. Just checked and the highest HR reading in the last year was 183bpm which came in the last straight of my first marathon so I doubt I would have gotten to 96% of max at that stage if the max was indeed 190! It’s good as it quite likely means I’ve been conservative with my MAF rate and been more even more aerobic. I won’t adjust anything though. Find out about Chicago lottery on the 9th of December. Apparently the odds are normally pretty decent for Chicago so fingers crossed. 

    Big G - Sounds like you had a great night. I didn’t realise the Darkness were still around. Have you thought about what you will aim for after the 100? 
    Ian - what is the rest of your autumn campaign, Berlin?

    Rcouture - as you've been conservative with your supposed MHR that's done you a favour with your MAF aerobic training.  No need to adjust your training, it's serving you well.

    Didn't you record a higher HR at the end of your 5km races?

    Not too long to wait for Chicago results then.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, lots of ideas but no firm plans yet. I want to get quicker at the marathon, I may even make a concerted effort at the club championship one year, I may do a few more halfs (still probably my favourite distance) and I am still interested in something like Glasgow to Edinburgh ultra. I can’t think too far ahead at this point though, but I don’t necessarily see those things as mutually exclusive anyway, if I do drop the number of marathons that I do. 

    Late start but a nice 7 miles in shorts and a t shirt :)
  • Shades - The highest I’ve ever hit in my 3 5k races is 179bpm. I really am very bad at the shorter stuff. 

    Big G - Makes sense. Guess you will have a lot more time for training if you’re not recovering so much. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I realised after your comment I haven't entered the ballot for Berlin,I'm going to enter the team one with OH so we both do it or none.If I don't get in I may wait and find a couple of races after Chicago.I'd like to find a nice half mid September to knock that time down a bit.
    12m today before my booster,started good but tired a bit at the end,guessing because it's the first time I've done 2x double digit runs within a couple of days for a long time.
    Rcouture said:
    Shades - The highest I’ve ever hit in my 3 5k races is 179bpm. I really am very bad at the shorter stuff. 

    Is that really as high as your HR peaked?  Or is it the average per km or mile?

    Ian - not like you to forget the Berlin ballot but it is all a bit confusing when some races have gone back to their usual dates and others haven't (yet).

    That's such a good idea having the team ballot.
  • I just emailed Chicago to let 'em know I can't take up my place. Asked if I could move to 2023 but I don't expect a reply, honestly.

    OK, anyway, my HRM arrived yesterday so tried it out today. Didn't have any bother getting it to talk to my watch, fortunately.
    First up was a 5 mile run at a slow easy pace (11:30-12 min/mi). I was rather expecting that it would come back with a lower HR than my watch alone, but it was pretty much the same, in fact...around 160 average once I'd warmed up. I was breathing easily enough. I guess I don't have a very efficient pump.

    A bit later I went to the gym. Wore it for that too. The readings for that were more sensible than when I was using the watch on its won - HR got up to 143 max during my pulldowns (I guess having arms overhead makes this more strenuous than the other exercises) but recovered quickly between sets, whereas before the readings made little sense (rates of over 150 between sets and silly high readings on the handbike). 

    I guess I'll have to see how things are going forward.
  • Shades - Yes that’s the peak. I just struggle to get things going with 5k as I don’t know how to pace them. I’ve only done 3 so hopefully with a few more I should be able to make more of an effort. 

    Ian - I had also entered Berlin. Do you know when the results would be announced?

    Cal - Enjoy the new HRM. I’m sure you’ll be much more sensible than I was when I got mine and not stress over every reading
    Rcouture - it's much harder to get anywhere near your MHR when aerobically fit.   I'm assuming you had some injuries/niggles back when you started HR training which prevented you from doing an MHR test.

    Cal - it can take a while to get used to using an HRM but you seem to have made a good start.

    You just need to decide what you want to use it for.  If it's to become aerobically fitter you'd need to train at a lot lower HR than today.   It's likely though that with your first run HR would be higher.   It's not a good idea to do an MHR test for you right now so MAF rate perhaps might be a good target and could get you great results.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-I think it said beginning of Jan,ballot ends Dec 6th no only a few weeks,always makes me wonder why London take so long.
  • The problem with MAF, Shades, is that it'd want me to have my HR at's never been that low on a run, even when I was running so slowly I was almost walking. It was a bit lower in 2019 around the time I did Yorkshire, but never dipped much below 140s except during warm-ups.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ha ha at MAF and walking. Been there and got the T Shirt. Frustrating at first (you may remember me moaning for a couple of months at the start of me trying it last year) but I’m glad I stuck with it. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Big G - the Goodwood folks are very good they might refund you esp if you mention CV. Theyve deferred races for me (have one Sunday from laat December), changed distances on the day or in advance........GW is windy and exposed, but works well in a no frills way for me, parked up within 30mins, collected  number and been to loo within a few minutes. A lap warm up, race, laps warm down (if you wish). Im entered in for a 1/2 in Feb as its so easy and ive given up trying to run fast in bigger races in marathon build up.

    RC - well done Sunday. You ran well, i saw your losing fitness worries, iwas expecting you to miss the impact from the miles and have sodt legs. Fwiw cramp is to related to effort/pace imo and its dufficult to fully replicate a hard marathon in training so i always expect a few hammy twinges late on, managing it is key.

    I know you folks like 1080, NB are too pricey for me but i bought some reasonably priced, quite liked them, so bought some more, £80 seemed reasonable (and as high as I'll go for daily shoes). Nice and firm and light, bit like Rides.
  • Rcouture congrats on the pb! Great report and well done for hanging in there! Cramp is a bugger, I’ve only suffered with cramp once in training but several times in races, use precision hydration and not cramped when using, May just be luck!

    Cal sensible decision re Chicago, I’m still on the lower budget races for 2022 with injury and redundancy at the back of my mind.

    Big G I can imagine they are a great band to see live! Re covid it’s all a gamble but we have to live life as best as we can. 

    Shades nice hilly route, good for DD! That reminds me I’ve got to stop using the river path for my runs! 

    Nothing to report really, a few uninspiring runs, yesterday was freezing today 9 degrees! Had a pretty shocking November <60 miles hopefully can build in December 

    Cal - you won't need to do any warm ups if you do base training and you will need to dress more warmly in the winter!   You could always try 125 to 130 and with time you'll get down to 125.    But it will be a very frustrating couple of months, if you can stick with it it will be worth it.

    Ian - I don't know why London ballot is such a drawn out process, by the time the ballot is announced I expect there are 000's that probably forgot they entered.

    TR - good to hear you like the 1080's.   £80 is the cheapest I've seen too.   Even the Rides are £135 at full price now.

    Robert - do you have a marathon/ultra in early January or did I imagine that?

    60 miles is bit low, but you did have Covid in the house and looking after Elle.   One hilly run a week would be a good start.  ;)

    Rest day for me today.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I listened to that podcast from Hawkins whilst pottering about doing other stuff today and yesterday and I enjoyed it.  Basically, he runs to keep himself sane, runs to keep the weight off so he can squeeze himself into his catsuits, his running addiction came about when he was getting off the booze and drugs, and he has been clean for years now (he was talking about swapping one addiction for another).  He doesn't seem particularly interested in official races/events, but him and his brother (guitarist in the band) run basically every day, in whatever city/town they happen to be in.  I would have loved to have seen them running around Exeter!  Regarding the music, they take it really seriously it seems like, and basically love to put on a show.

    TR, yeah, I have never paid full price for the 1080s either.  I switched to them last year as they seemed to be a shoe that enabled me to continue to run at least a bit with achilles issues due to the nature of the heel counter sloping away from the achilles, and I really like them now.

    Robert, hopefully you can start to build up a bit through December and into the New Year.

    It is my birthday today, and we are off out tonight for a nice meal :) 
    edited December 2021
    Happy Birthday Big G 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳  Enjoy your meal.

    I see Shepperdine is open for entries, I guess that's not on your list of marathons up to the 100.

    Same day as Conne, but if I can't travel to Ireland for any reason I'll do Shepperdine instead, if I can get a late place.

    Annoyingly had to cancel the gym today, I've tweaked a muscle in my neck, nothing serious but I know the gym would make it worse.   Hope it's gone by tomorrow.
  • Happy birthday Big G!

    TR - Thanks. What do you do to manage those cramps in the race? 

    Rob - Remind me how many of the precision hydration tablets you take for say a marathon? Any news on the job front?

    Have booked physio for next Thursday. I can’t imagine what else they would tell me to do aside from the same strengthening exercises I was doing before the race but let’s see. Will start some of that again in a few days. Legs feel almost normal aside from the ITB which is good. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, Shepperdine is not in my plans unfortunately as it doesn't fit as it falls between Manchester and Belfast, which is a shame.  If it had been in March, say, I would have done it again.  I reckon it will sell out so I don't think I can even have it on my emergency 'if things go to pot' list.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-I listened to that when it was out and really enjoyed listening to him.Have a good birthday.
    Rcouture-I used to always suffer,haven't for the last few but before that I always used gherkin juice when I felt the cramp,soon disappeared.
  • Happy Birthday Big G!
    Shades, yeah...the problem is I won't be running at that HR, I'll be walking, pretty much all of it. I know my HR did not come down when I was injured and walking instead of running so I'm not sure how it will help. It'll just take all the enjoyment out of it. I think I actually need to work my way down to a lower HR rather than just trying to run at 125 or even 130.
    Hope your neck is OK...I've tweaked mine a few times. It's usually lev scap that's the does rectify itself fairly quickly but it's a, well, pain in the neck.

    Anyway, I did 10 miles this morning - wanted a decent length run as I had my booster at 11am and may need to rest tomorrow if it affects me (got Moderna this time). Pace was slow again...HR not so much. Decided to put a few intervals into the last mile for the sake of form as my stride length and cadence are shocking at the moment. Didn't die.
    Rcouture - you're recovering well, the ITB discomfort is no surprise I guess.

    Cal - my neck is only a minor twinge but I aggravated it this morning by carrying 2 very heavy shopping bags from the car, trying to avoid 2 trips.

    Just as well you booked your booster when you did, it's bedlam on the booking website since Omicron was announced.
  • Shades - slow poodle at East Hanningfield on the 2nd Jan, hope the tweak isn’t anything serious 

    Happy birthday Big G! Enjoy your meal…. Hope you don’t get roped into paying Xmas party prices.

    Rcouture I used the tablets that dissolve in your drink, I would have two the day before a marathon, one the morning of the marathon and 2 during the race, obv only any good of the race have bottles or you have support on course to hand them to you. Nothing on work yet, shud be next week as the board meeting with senior exec

    Cal well done on getting the jab and getting out for a run, back running good mileage! 

    Bought some poles with beskidy and WW50 in mind, seen people saying they are a godsend.  6.75 miles this evening managed to stay away from the river path and added some undulations 
    Robert - thanks, I didn't just imagine that you had a race in early January then.  :)

    Do you ever use the salt tablets?

    I've heard folk say the same about the poles.   I have a friend that actually coaches Nordic Walking so gives folk a chance to get out and practise using the poles.

    No run for me this morning, we now have ice.  🥶 Rain yesterday has frozen.   My neck is still sore too, not helped by a restless night, but I don't think it would bother me running.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks everyone.

    Robert, we had the tasting menu (8 courses, plus coffee!), which is a set price and it was very nice.  If you are looking for some inspiration for what to rustle up for this evening's meal, I would recommend "Brixham Crab, Ponzu Mayo, Crispy Shiso Leaf, Pickled Kohlrabi" as it was a particular treat ;)   Ha ha, sounds pretentious I know, but it is a great place and they manage to make it a relaxing place to go, as it is not stuffy or OTT.  We were there 3.5 hours and then took a walk around the harbour area to let it all go down a bit, before driving home.

    Need to get back to it, but after another late night (2 in 3 days is too much for me these days), I have not long been out of bed!
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