Shades Marathon Training

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, good news the leg feels okay today.  How did your team do in the race?

    Cal, that is a good 16 miler.  Well done.

    Shades, as you say, the forecast is still no good really.  No point slogging myself around there in those conditions as the whole reason for going would be to try for a fast (for me) 5-mile time, and that wind would definitely slow me down.  Shame, as it is probably the last opportunity for a PB this year I think.  A very small possibility for Tavy 5K, but that is two days after a marathon so I expect I won't do that one either as my 5K PB is pretty solid for my level of fitness (i.e., I would need to be feeling pretty good to have a crack at it).  But I have had a good year, all things considered - PBs at 10K, Half and DD.  Of course, the big one - marathon - is missing from that list, but I believe I was in PB shape, I just wasn't able to toe the start line on October.

    I took a rest day yesterday which meant I only got to 42 miles last week, out of a planned 55ish. Although slow, the trail race tired me out quite a lot.  I suppose bracing/tensing myself for 1hr27 to stop myself falling over is tiring, no matter the pace!  But we had a nice day out in Exeter for the Xmas markets yesterday, nice food, drink, etc.  Then I came back and jumped on Zwift for an hour.

    This morning I went out and got a 7 miler in, but there was quite a lot of wind and rain.  It wasn’t cold though, so I got it done today.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-We had a good race,3rd overall and 2nd in the vets race.We should start winning it in the next couple of years as our kids get old enough to compete,we had a 15yr old get 27:47 for 5.5m and there's quite a few of them eligible for next year.
    DD will be my only PB this year,even if I find a race there's no way I can get any,in terms of PB's I think only my 5m is easy pickings,the rest are pretty strong.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you've had a good year for PBs.   Never mind about missing out on a marathon PB, more importantly you got through Covid without any lasting effects on your health/fitness.  You know that you can still do a marathon PB soon.

    I see YT has started training again, a 101 mile week to start his Rotterdam training.

    I'm sure you're right, tensing yourself on the downhills especially in the cold would have made for sore quads.   I always find that if I don't enjoy a race my recovery is much slower.   Whereas a good and enjoyable race seems easy to recover from.  Just shows how powerful the mind is.

    Ian - you still have plenty of PBs ahead of you.   Perhaps lack of opportunity is partly the reason this year.  Of course as time goes on you'll get used to less successful years re PBs, for many reasons.  You did a good PB at DD.
  • Big G - Do you zwift on your running rest days? I have my indoor bike arriving tomorrow and the plan would be to use it either when injured or on running rest days. I’m no good with zero exercise days anymore so figure that’s a better option than getting injured not taking rest days as per my last training block.  
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I think it's more my inconsistent miles this year,as I do t do speedy stuff then I need higher miles to get the gains.I am on 1315m now which is a lot lower than the last few years.Once I get the miles up again then I think there's more to come yet.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, yes I tend to Zwift on my non running days. Not every single one, but most I’d say. It’s how I can sometimes get a number of exercise days in a row, but I tend to ride easy (sometimes very, very easy) on non-running days, as I like getting the legs moving even if it’s only a bit. I don’t follow any plan though so I’m not suggesting what I do is correct at all!  And it’s not something I plan or rigidly stick to. If I need a full rest day I just take one, no problem (IE I have no notion of doing run/ride streaks etc). 

    I know some runners use Zwift/cycling as their base training and then do harder sessions for running. Cal’s team mate and top level athlete, Steph Davis, I believe does this as her weekly running mileage is actually quite low for someone at her level.  But she Zwifts/cycles and, I think, swims. I have fallen into an approach where I tend to do more tough sessions on Zwift a week (maybe 1 or 2) and only very few (one a week at most) hard sessions of running, if we don’t count races.  

    But I do think over the next few weeks, with a number of marathons planned, I will need to take more full rest days and I wouldn’t be surprised if my running weekly mileage isn’t particularly high either. 

    You can see the last few weeks I’ve had very few full rest days. As I say, I’m not saying this is the correct approach though!

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Same data, but showing hours of exercise, which you can see dropped the two weeks after my last marathon on 20th Nov. 

  • Big G - That’s very interesting and you’ve also put in a bunch of training lately when you view it in terms of duration. When not injured I cannot see the bike being anything more than a 1-2hour a week job for me as a cross trainer on running rest days. I’ve also got a cheapo bike that’s not compatible with zwift (at least not without a lot of faff) as I can see myself sucked into all that quite easily!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    7 mile easy run today,came out very slow,pretty rough weather though,even had a bout of hail at 1 point.
    Rcouture-If you're bike has Bluetooth there's a way you can adapt it to zwift for £1.50 month,it's an app called HR2VP.
  • Shades - great news on the new paths, always useful to have extra routes.

    Cal - nice 16 mile slog

    Big G - No cake is a farce! Need to boycott unless they offer double cake next time

    Ian - DD was a great Pb and there were some great race performances

    rcouture - I gathered that you don't do rest days that well lol, its hard when you're focused so much of a specific goal.

    Been a weird few days, one of our cats escaped Thursday Morning (they are only allowed in our garden when we let them out) basically didn't sleep for 2 days, done plenty of walking looking for him, leaflet drops and posters.  Smashed panels in fence so was easy for him to get back in... we finally spotted him saturday 4am and managed to coax him in.  Saturday and Sunday was a bit of a daze.

    Running was a non event however sunday we were going to get some stuff to secure the garden further but saw we had a flat tyre.  Took to get fixed and told 2 hours before they would look at car, got a call to say the wheel nut wasn't in the car so had a nice 3 mile round trip home belly fully of hot chocolate and cake and a nice thick hoody.  Also managed a 4 mile run at lunch today, hope to get a bit of normality back.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that does seem low mileage for you so far this year, I guess that was partly due to PF and the calf/shin, and lack of marathons in the early part of the year.


    Robert - what news on the job front?

    So good the cat finally was found, you both must have been exhausted, and the cat too probably.


    5 miles this morning, shorter run as I have  early Pilates class this morning.  Weather was fine for my run, wind just starting to pick up now.   Am going to take the car to the gym as gale force winds and torrential rain  forecast and don't fancy that to/from the gym, it's about a 15 minute walk each way.
  • Shades - I'm yet to break the news to Elle that I was impressed how she managed better than me sleep deprived and have decided that she would be perfect to crew me when I want to do a 100 miler  :D 

    The senior exec and members of board met yesterday and the whole board meet today, should hear something this week.  I'm trying not to think about it and put it at the back of my mind.  I want to leave but I'm not getting excited as the decision maybe delayed.

    No run this morning a bit of ice about, will aim to get out this evening so I build up so momentum again after last weeks drama.  
  • More interesting routes are always better, Shades!
    I tried just putting the monitor under my bra for the gym yesterday, but it kept beeping (even when I stuck it down with KT tape) so looks like I need the strap. I did tighten it up today and it didn't budge, though I can't say it's particularly pleasant to run in.

    Ian, I wouldn't worry too much about that race...as you say, you ran 7 miles beforehand. I remember having a disappointing 10K in Kew Gardens, but I'd run 8 miles there due to engineering work on the trains so I don't know why I expected that wouldn't affect me!

    Big G, I've always been more sore in windy races due to bracing myself, so not surprised you needed a rest!

    Rob, when are you doing to do your century, then?

    Went out for 6 miles today...five at a very slow, recovery plod (average HR in the 140s...only just for the fifth mile though) and then I did 10 lots of strides in the last mile...short but basic all out sprints. Garmin had my cadence at well over 200 for those. Really enjoyed doing them. I'm hoping they will help me improve my stride length and cadence again, both of which have dropped off a lot.
    I was lucky to catch the most amazing red sky during the early part of the run, though it did fade very quickly (rather like me, I guess).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - I've heard that harder than completing the last part of a 100 mile event is crewing for a bad tempered/hallucinating runner.   Full marks to Elle as the chosen one.  Not saying you're bad tempered, of course.  ;)

    I hope the news on the job front is what suits you best.


    Cal - that's strange that the HRM didn't work under the bra band, maybe the bra is too loose.  Needs to be tight and then holds the monitor firmly in place.  

    You sound a lot happier about how your training is going now and seem to be enjoying it more too.


    Only grey skies here.   Drove to the gym, got the last parking space.   During Pilates which we do upstairs the torrential rain was hammering on the roof for the whole hour, never heard anything that bad there before.   Instructor said she would send a life guard out to the car park with a dinghy.   But the rain had eased a bit by the time I left, so no floods to drive through on the way home.
    More hip work in Pilates, mostly hip flexors and glutes, some evil stretches but I quite enjoy that sort of work out.
  • I think anyone would be bad tempered without sleep. I am very mild mannered most of the time but if my neighbours wake me up I turn into Genghis Khan. 
  • Cal - I like to plan in advance, the 100 is pencilled in for June 2024 South Downs Way.  I hope to run SDW50 in 2023 covers the final 50 miles of the 100 (also the 4th centurion 50 miler so will have done them all).  I saw the red sky this morning too, I couldn't remember what it meant but looks grim now!

    shades think I’ll break the news by dropping it into conversation when out with running friends.

    forced myself out again tonight shy of 4 miles better than nothing 


  • Rob, my mum used to say "red sky at night, shepherd's delight...red sky at morning, sailors take warning." I guess sailors would take warning today, what with the wind...fortunately it's not been too bad down in London. But usually it's just a pretty sky, if you ask me.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I'll not be offering to crew for you in the latter stages of a long ultra then  ;)   I get miserable when tired.


    Robert - that's such a good idea that you can do a race over the last 50 miles of the 100, perfect preparation.     Is 50 miles your longest distance to date?

    I think you're an expert at delivering news, such as the 100 miler, at a careful moment.

    At least you're getting out there running, doesn't matter that it's a shortish run.


    Rest day for me today.
  • Rest was tempting but I dragged myself out for an 8 mile stumble around in the dark. I was hoping to see some Christmas lights but either a lot of folk haven't put theirs up yet, or they're not as bothered this year. Some of the roads that were spectacular last year haven't got many lights up yet, so guess I'll give it a week and have another look.
    This was a very slow run, but did include a few hills (nothing too steep but I was checking out the residential roads alongside Wandsworth Common, which go down into a sort of valley). HR averaged 145 which isn't bad considering the hills, but did peak at 150-160 while going up a few of the hills (it did come down again very quickly though).
    While sunrise did happen, there was no pretty red sky this morning, and I returned home soon after. Legs were a bit achey and I didn't have much inclination to push it to double figures on this occasion. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Sounds like you've got some good long terms plans there, Robert!

    Cal, yes, we say 'Red sky at night, shepherd's delight.  Red sky in the morning, sailors take warning', too.  I don't know if people who work in those jobs actually say that though!

    I hold my hands up and say I dodged a run yesterday.  I had an opportunity earlyish in the morning but the weather was terrible, and again at around 5:30pm, but it was also terrible terrible then as well.  But I went on the bike twice - once for 90-mins in the morning at an easy effort, and then I jumped into a race at 6PM, which was very tough.  

    7-miles today though and weather was decent for running with no wind or rain, and it was quite sunny.

    I have had to send my AFs back, sadly. I just felt that the arch of my left foot was rubbing.  I tried different thickness socks, but couldn't get it to feel right and I know I would have a concern of blisters in a marathon.  I don't have that issue with the VFs, so something odd for me there, although right foot felt fine.  Shame as I really liked them other than that and they felt incredibly springy (more so than my VFs), but they need to go back.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I wonder if some Xmas lights might be later this year as a token gesture re climate change and using less energy.   So far just about all the lights I've seen on folk's houses has been of the really tacky sort.   I was horrified at one of my neighbours has a giant inflatable snowman plus flashing lights from inside the house.   As far as I know the house doesn't have new owners and they've never had stuff like that before, breathtakingly bad taste and they leave them on all night, gives me a shock when I go outside for my run.

    Big G - I went out at 5:30 yesterday morning so managed to avoid running in the storm.

    That's bad luck with the shoes, was that the first pair of AF's you've had?  You did the right thing sending them back, the tightness would certainly cause you problems in a marathon.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes it was the first time I’ve tried the Alphaflys. I have the Vaporflys, which I have raced up to a Half in, and also Zoom Flys that I have done a few sessions in, and I don’t have problems with those. I got the same size as normal in the AFs, but for whatever reason they just weren’t right for me. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I asked because it's possible if you'd had a pair before that these might have been faulty, i.e. sizing/manufacturing fault.  

    Never mind £156 saved. 😉
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I see Newport have announced 2022 date, 23rd October.   Wonder if they'll keep to an autumn date as a permanent change.  



    8 miles this morning, my town hilly route 733 ft, 600 of which is done in 3 miles.   Had a good steady run, nice morning, bit of a chilly wind in places.

    Stretch class followed by gym this morning.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Just a reminder what Big G is up to for the rest of the year  ;)


  • Shades, 2x50 milers are my longest so far, thats the reason why I pencilled SDW100 as I would be able to recce the final 50 in a race and know the aid stations, also closest to solstice only 7 hours darkness.  Nice elevation, I'm still trying to avoid the river path when I'm running, I know where there are hills but refraining from venturing there!

    Cal there are a few roads near us that do xmas lights, we also have postbox toppers in Hertford and Ware that I hope to run round at some point.  Well done for getting out early, it's tough when the weather is how it is.  

    Big G Shame you had to send the shoes back, have you got this months sportshoes code yet? Can't see Ware Joggers or Valley Spartans have got theirs yet.  They seem to have some stuff not far from black friday prices still but with the code inc free delivery so works out better.

    7 miles after work yesterday 300ft elevation that's about as hilly as a general run gets for me! Undecided if to go to a club session tonight or not, I have a 20km race on Sunday at Wendover, its 4 laps of the parkrun totalling 1200ft elevation.  Although its a bit overkill I may take my poles and give them a trial run. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I got an email for Newport and they said:
    We're delighted to confirm that our iconic 26.2-mile race will return next year on Sunday 23 October 2022. It will move to the autumn season for one year only in 2022 before returning to its regular Spring slot in April 2023.  

    Robert, I got an email from Sportsshoes over the Black Friday weekend giving me a new code for the club, which is valid until 5th Jan.  They were very enthusiastic as I got two emails, with two different codes, but when I queried it the second email was an error.  Not that it makes much difference really, but I have noticed recently that sometimes it is valid for orders over £30, and sometimes over £50. 

    I went along to a Trotters session last night.  Couldn't really get going so I was mildly disappointed with my mile reps this time (6:15 and 6:13-ish), and there were 60-sec intervals in between the two efforts.  Still glad I went though. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - definitely the best time of year to do a long ultra, when the daylight is at its longest.   Also night temperature shouldn't be cold either which can be a real problem when very very tired.   Training wise not really necessary to run anything longer than 50 miles before stepping up to the 100 miles, that's because it's your head that will get you round the second half, not so much the legs. 

    That will be a good opportunity to try out the poles in Sunday's race, that's fair elevation for 20km  :o  


    Big G - I probably have the same email but didn't read any further than the date of next year's race 😊

    I think the club discount from Sportsshoes is generally much better value than BF deals.   I got so fed up with emails about BF that I am unsubscribing from 90 % of those that inundated me with far too many emails, particularly Pro-Direct who were definitely the worse culprits, they are expensive and rarely offer any good deals and sent me multiple emails every day about BF.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, the sportsshoes BF offers also worked with the code as well, which was really good, although I personally didn't make use of it.  I did pick up a couple of pairs of NB1080s V10s again, but they weren't in the BF sale. 
  • Is Newport a good one? I guess I'll have to think about a UK Autumn marathon now I've decided against Chicago. Of course, that's dependent on my not having some sort of heart procedure (though, what with it being the NHS and covid still running rampant, I wouldn't expect to get a procedure that quickly anyway). I wouldn't mind doing Chester again but definitely open to other options. (I am in the ballot for London, of course, but well...)

    6 miles today...didn't go out until after 9 so I was a bit quicker than yesterday even though there were a few traffic stops along the way. Feel better for it, though I have a few little niggles brewing that I need to keep a lid on. I've been rather lazy about stretching and doing my rehab, which is largely due to being enthralled by my current computer game. Need to be a bit more disciplined, eh?
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