Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - well that makes sense, I don't do hill reps either but will do hilly laps.

    Just been to Aldi, much busier than usual this morning.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Some interesting news coming out from Young Trotter, but we will have to change his name.  He has been invited to join Newham and Essex Beagles, and he has accepted.  I think it was Mo's club(?), and they want him to run for them at team events, relays, x-country etc, he will stay in Devon as they have told him to train as normal, they are paying his club fees, and they will pay expenses for travel/hotel for races I think.  For things like London he will run for them, so although I have not spoken to him personally (his Mum was at Committee last night), he is apparently quite happy with the situation, which is nice to hear as he was previously a bit down about running I think.  He obviously had/has very lofty marathon plans and I think he would say he was a bit disappointed with the times he managed, but maybe running in a team will help bring some enjoyment and racing different distances with competitive runners will surely bring him on.  Best of luck to him.

    The club are having to rerun the John Scott Trophy as there was a marshal error and so some people went the wrong way on Sunday!  They are redoing it on Saturday for those that want to.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that's a good opportunity for YT, we can still call him that surely he will stay with the Trotters as 2nd claim?

    Whoops re the marshal error.  Another chance to try out the timing system though.   Will you run it this time?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah his Mum did say that if he does local races he will run as a Trotter.  I won't be doing the event on Saturday....if I wanted a hard effort and felt up to it, there is Tavy 5K on Saturday AM, but I strongly suspect that I won't do that either!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - he'll always be young Trotter to me, even when I'm in my dotage and he'll be in his 40's.

    Have a good drive up today and good luck for tomorrow.
  • Ian hope you get everything done today, going to be a hectic time.

    Shades that's a much clearer layout for the list, noticed they have a local race section which is smart/ good thinking.

    Big G main thing is YT is happy, would be a shame for him to waste that talent, it was the same club that Mo 'ran' for.  Hope you have a good trip and run tomorrow, can't believe how mild it is still, should still be okay tomorrow.

    Had 3 Christmas cards to run around today, all in Hertford but close to 5 miles ran.  Got a text today and booked a booster for next Wednesday morning.  I nearly booked a slot at a chemist on Christmas day yesterday but didn't want to risk feeling rubbish all day.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, thanks.  Got here okay and the drive up was uneventful with no hold ups whatsoever.  3hrs45mins including a stop, so it was quite a long drive, but at least I kept moving at the appropriate speed all the time.  Plenty of time to relax this evening though.

    Robert, yes, it is mild.  Should be okay tomorrow though with a very low chance of wind or rain apparently, which is good!   I think it may be a vest tomorrow.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Good luck for tomorrow, weather looks decent so hopefully a good day ahead.
    Eventually got out for 12 miles today, felt ok but my legs felt a bit sore. Checked when I got in and because of the way the back end of last week went and this week I've done 60m in the last 7 days so I will take tomorrow off.
  • I guess if he's joining Beagles we can call him Young Pup, Big G?

    Rob, good news on the booster. Most people aren't having side effects other than a sore arm (I will say my arm hurt a lot, though, so don't get it in the side you sleep on, which I did).

    5 today...unlike yesterday, I didn't manage to drag myself out until after 11, but the upside was it was light and I decided to do some mild speedwork in the form of a progression run. I didn't make a particularly good job of it as there were small changes to speed for the first three miles, then mile 4 was a while minute faster (probably as it was net downhill), then only managed to shave off a few seconds for the last one. I was hoping to get up to 9 minute miles but didn't quite manage that, what with weaving between park cars and pedestrians. Should have planned the route a bit better, I think. Anyway, I survived...nothing broke, and that's a plus.
  • Great running all

    Big G - Good luck tomorrow

    Covid really ravaging through friends and colleagues at the minute. Luckily all asymptomatic/mild. I have my last meeting in person tomorrow but that’s it in terms of work interactions until the new year. 

    No running from me as ITB can still be felt faintly going down stairs. I did manage an hour on the bike today before work and tried to stick to around 120bpm which feels about right. Bored to tears tbh but at least I can answer emails and watch rubbish on the iPad. Including this which hit a bit close to home:
    https://youtu.be/ezdrNOKWfGY
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-I watched that earlier,love the sage cameo but cracked up when he swam in his vaporflys
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - that's impressive you managed to get a booster appointment this side of Christmas.   As what Cal has said most only have a sore arm and that's pretty mild and doesn't last long.


    Ian - that's quite a jump in your weekly mileage, you'll be up to 100mpw by January  ;)  :)  I'm not surprised your legs are a little tired.


    Rcouture - brilliant video, we all could have written that script.   He is so funny.

    But you are recovering so just a little more patience and you'll be back out there. 
     

    Big G - enjoy your marathon today, great conditions for December.   

    These midweek marathons mess with my head and I start forgetting what day it is.


    I'm having to take another rest day today.   Annoyingly I've tweaked my neck again.  I did feel it slightly when we did the neck stretches at Pilates on Tuesday but just a passing twinge.   But last night I had a bad night's sleep, very restless and was tossing and turning and tweaked my neck turning over in bed.   It feels like it's starting to ease now that I'm up and about so I'll just wait and see.  I have cancelled my Stretch class and gym though.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Robert, I’ve got mine booked for tomorrow. I did have it booked for 22nd but brought it forward when a slot came available as some are saying they feel a bit unwell so I wanted to get that out the way if it happens to me.

    Rcouture, hopefully the huge majority of people will have mild symptoms, but still it will be a problem for the NHS I suppose. I’ve a friend who has been extremely careful since this all started but his family have all had it, I think possibly brought in from his young kids at school. 

    Shades, yes these mid week ones are strange!

    I didn’t sleep too well so I’m pretty tired this morning. Hoping a couple of coffees will perk me up a bit!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I wasn’t feeling it on the start line, but the weather was as expected, which was good. I opted for a shirt though as although mild for the time of the year I just felt a shirt was better.

    Although I was there about 45mins early I actually missed the start by around a minute as I was in the loo!  But I got going and felt a bit creaky at the start but soon got into it after about a mile or so.

    The course was around a cycle circuit and almost back the start, but turn around a cone and go back the other way to the start. This was one lap, and there 14 for the marathon today. Not flat as each direction there is a slope, and it’s strange how it felt easier one way compared to the other.

    Settled into a rhythm and knew early on that 3:30 was on today, so that kept me going. I think I lapped everyone except for one person, and I did a negative split today, finishing in 3:27:44 on my watch (waiting on official results that will be about a minute slower due to me missing the start). 

    Denzil from How Hard Can It Be and Rik from Phoenix were both there - they did about 10 laps I think. 

    At about half way it dawned on me that I hadn’t even thought once about my back, so that was good!

    I’m pretty pleased with that really after Sunday, although in fairness I did run within myself on Sunday.   Splits and HR below (ignore HR for the first mile or two). Can anything be gleaned from this HR, with my max of 195? 

    Of course the last couple of miles I had to dig in a bit, but it felt pretty comfortable today. One of those days that doesn’t happen all that often, especially as at the start I wasn’t fully onboard with the whole thing!

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - brilliant running and a great time, must be in your top 5 times?  Despite the not being on the start line or feeling the love for racing at that moment either.

    Can't comment on the HR I need to see it expressed as %'s, first half/2nd half  or perhaps for each 5 mile section.

    So  did you finish in 2nd place overall? 


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    Shades, here are my best times, so it will depend on what my official time is.  It will probably be my 6th or 7th best time.
    1. Malta Marathon, 3:19:29
    2. San Sebastien Marathon, 3:20:35
    3. Shepperdine Marathon, 3:22:52
    4. Berlin Marathon, 3:27:03
    5. Loch Ness Marathon, 3:27:40
    6. Great Bruges Marathon, 3:28:35
    7. Chelmsford Marathon, 3:29:23
    8. Nottingham Christmas Marathon, 3:29:40

    I think perusing that list, Loch Ness is the one that I was most knackered after!  Berlin I cruised in when I knew a PB was not happening, to enjoy the atmosphere a bit.  Chelmsford I was delighted with as I had an injury I was managing at that time.  Nottingham was my first time under 3:30.  San Sebastien I was on for a small PB but I couldn't hold on in the last 3 or 4 miles.   Bruges was my 50th marathon.

    I didn't want to say until the results came out, but I think I may have been first.  The guy I didn't lap went out quite quickly and I overtook him at roughly 20 miles, but I didn't make around again in time to lap him, although he seemed to be fading a bit.  I will wait for the official results though as I may have not quite counted everyone or maybe some were doing the ultra or someone turned up late etc.  It is strange though as when I look at Plym Trail from Sunday where I finished 4th, I have no idea who it is who is listed as 5th (i.e., I thought the 6th person was 5th).  Literally no idea, but I presumably overtook him (unless he started steady and sped up) as I overtook the person listed as 6th.  Maybe my powers of perception aren't that great during a marathons so as I say I may well have missed someone today as well :)   

    But I did feel very pretty good today.  Here is the pace, average HR and %Max for every 5 miles.
    1. 8:03min/mile, 158bpm (81% of max, a bit out as first 2 miles HRM was reading incorrectly)
    2. 7:56, 160 (82%)
    3. 7:58, 164 (84%)
    4. 7:58, 166 (85%)
    5. 7:48, 169 (87.66%)
    The rest:  7:20, 173 (88.7%)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I have my LT as 179, by the way, from a test I did on the road.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Great running,hope you dipped at the line for the win.
    Shades-It wasn't meant to be 60,it was just they way last week and this fell,as it is it could have been a bit much as my right leg has been really bad today,its felt like when my achilles went but prodding it I can't feel anything so don't think it's that,it's more on the outside,feels like it's twisted somehow.Anyway will take a few days off and see how it reacts,annoying though as I was really getting into a nice groove and felt the fitness coming back.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, fingers crossed the leg is on the mend soon!

    I was first in the marathon with 3:28:22.  5 people went over the marathon distance, and the lady who went the furthest did 43-miles in 6:02 so she did well.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - congrats on the win, I thought you were being a little modest, but fully understand you want verification of the results before announcing a win.

    So your 6th best time, on a multi lap course, that's very impressive.

    Good HR stats too.

    Ian - hopefully a couple of days rest will sort you out, I know you didn't intend to jump up to 60 miles so soon.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
    Big G - Great run and congrats on the W. Those splits and HR suggest you had quite a bit left in the tank too. Do you have much comparative HR data from other races? What shoes did you run in? You’ve returned the Alphaflys I recall.

    Ian - Bad luck on the leg. Hopefully it’s nothing a bit of rest can’t fix

    Saw physio this eve who said I can try running again when I can hop up and down on one foot for 30secs and not feel the ITB at all, which shouldn’t be long. She wants me to start off with no more than one 18 minute run every 3-4 days, split into a 5min run and 1min walk. She’s also happy with the strengthening of the glute/hip area so is confident longer term as long as I keep up at least a bit of strength work. Knowing me I’ll be doing the exercises every night forever if it keeps me running so I’m not worried about that. She’s introduced me to single leg deadlifts which are a right pain but I can tell will be very beneficial as I suck at them. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, I don't have too much data from marathon events.  I will dig out the Half and 10K PBs from earlier in the year and have a look at those as well.  I just wore a pair of NB1080 V10 - half a size up and the wider fitting and the same pair I wore at Shepperdine and DD.  Each to their own I suppose, but there was a guy there today in AFs and he was literally walking around or jogging quite slowly, which I didn't really understand.
  • Big G well done on the win and a solid time, good to finish 2021 feeling strong. Hope the booster goes okay tomorrow

    Rcouture good to see you have a plan with your physio, something to work towards

    Ian hope the mini rest will do your leg some good.

    shades elle managed to book a test for Saturday, more fool her for doing it in her own time 😆.  5km tonight as limited on time 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - you seem to have found a good physio there even giving you detailed instructions for when you can run again, which seems it will be soon  :)

    Single leg deadlifts are really effective, you don't need to do many of them to fire up the glutes  :'(   Good balance work too.


    Robert - no news on the job front, sounds to me like it will be announced on your last day pre Christmas break perhaps?

    Glad Elle can now get a booster too, top up the antibodies.

    Big G - I think it will be useful building up your HR data records especially when you are planning a PB attempt.   
    I once did a 10 minute marathon PB as using my HR during the race gave me the courage to keep the pace up whereas if I'd been using my usual judgement of effort I would have slowed down as the race went on.


    Had a much better night's sleep, neck is a lot better but still a bit sore so am giving it another day's rest from running.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, I am still not really clear what I should be looked at with regards to HR.  I know MF used Marco didn't she, and I have just dug that up as the following.  Apologies as I know we've had this before, but can you remind me what percentages you would be looking at for a marathon?  Sorry to hear that your neck is still sore.
    Marco:
    1 73 142.35
    2 74 144.3
    3 78 152.1
    4 78 152.1
    5 78 152.1
    6 78 152.1
    7 78 152.1
    8 79 154.05
    9 79 154.05
    10 83 161.85
    11 83 161.85
    12 83 161.85
    13 83 161.85
    14 83 161.85
    15 84 163.8
    16 84 163.8
    17 84 163.8
    18 88 171.6
    19 88 171.6
    20 88 171.6
    21 88 171.6
    22 88 171.6
    23 89 173.55
    24 89 173.55
    25 89 173.55
    26 89 173.55
    26.2 89 173.55

    For anyone interested, here were the 5K splits/HR for my Half PB:
    1. 6:53min/mile, 162bpm (83% Max) 
    2. 6:49, 171 (87.5) 
    3. 6:40, 176 (90) 
    4. 6:44, 182 (93) 
    Last bit.  622, 184 (94)

    And the 1-mile data for my 10K (re-reading this makes me wince.  It was horrible!):
    1) 6:18, 158 (81)  
    2) 6:22, 176 (90) 
    3) 6:22, 178 (91) 
    4) 6:23, 181 (92.8) 
    5) 6:27, 183 (93.8)
    6) 6:30, 185 (94.8)
    Last bit) 6:12, 187(95.8)

    My club are going to France next year for Nice-Cannes marathon.  Sounds brilliant, but of course that opens up the can of worms again about the required medical certs for French races!  Two were booked in for this year, but their flights were cancelled.  One got a medical cert via work, as it coincided with him needing a new one for his job.  The other got one that a friend gave him, and he edited the appropriate details himself.... 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - if you have a doc friend they might do you a certificate?   Or you can buy them on the internet, legally, £50-65 I believe.   I don't suppose Covid has made getting certificates for sport any easier.  Runners do forge them, after all they're worthless.

    Re HR's for marathon or other races.   It does depend on how fit you are, the fitter you are the longer you can hold a high HR and maintain pace.   
    In my purple patch year my 3 marathon PB's were run at 87%, 85% and 87%.   The first of those PB's I don't have full stats for as my Garmin died during the race.   The 2nd one was a 2 lap course (identical laps) and I did the first half in 82% the 2nd half in 88%, I knew I was going to run a PB and set out from the start to do so, undulating course.   The 3rd one I did 85% for the first half and 89% for the 2nd half, I was injured and the last few miles I had to slow but the discomfort kept my HR high as I knew I was on for a PB so had to push on.  Flat course.

    Your 10k looks so painful at those HR's.   :'(
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I've never tried Marco in a race.  I did try it in training, not successful.    If I felt I was at peak fitness I might give it a go in a race.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, thanks for the data.  I do have a GP acquaintance but when I asked him a couple of years ago he wouldn't do it without actually seeing me.  My own GP wanted what I considered to be too much money, so I didn't go forward with it at that time (I was looking at Annecy marathon).
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    5 mile recovery run and was okay, apart from I got what felt like a cramp in my left calf.  I was able to carry on with my run, but I can feel it a bit now sitting here.  Hopefully that will clear up soon.

    I have been my booster, all very efficient.  There was something of an altercation in the car park. Parking Marshals everywhere but somehow some kind of argument was going on with finger jabbing and raised voices over a parking space. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - maybe see what the other Trotters are going to do re certificates for Nice marathon.

    I guess you went to ERC for your booster.   I found it extremely efficient too but the car parking is not designed for constant arriving and leaving and I could easily see tempers easily raised.

    Hope the calf is OK, maybe the long drive home yesterday didn't help that.   You have a couple of weeks before the next one, time to recover.
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