Shades Marathon Training

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  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-I ran about 34 miles a few years ago,but I think DD is worth more than that.
    Shades-Thinking about the 50k,I don't think I'll do it,it would be fine for sponsors but as a personal challenge I know I can do that,I will keep looking for other races.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, have you looked at 12 or 24hr events?  Obviously I've not done it, but there is one called Run Sandringham 24 which is on the weekend of 19th August.  5 mile loops. https://www.runsandringham.co.uk/sandringham24
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited January 4
    Good news I think from physio in that this thing on my knee has nothing to do with the ITB which seems ok now. Seemingly it’s to do with the squats I was doing. Anyway they will work on that (with some more sessions from my insurer of course) but I can keep ramping up mileage very slowly. If anyone has any ideas as to how quickly to ramp up from two months off sensibly, I’m all ears as I’m not sure I trust my ‘feel’. 
  • Ian - defo worth finding an event for the 50, as much as I enjoy the solidarity of ultras it’s nice to have the odd bit of company and the support of the aid stations.  Something for consideration/ researching I’ve only ran a few miles on the Thames path outside London (CW50), the path had a lot of tree roots which made it tricky.  Navigation should be fairly straight forward, just check every signpost at every bridge as the TP switches side and you'll end up veering off it.  Round the rock (Jersey) comes highly recommended which is August too.

    Rcouture - each time you get to a stretch of mud or water I do think ffs, but just mixes it up really.  Hope you get back up to speed quickly.

    Shades - great news and service on the oven, Cork marathon sounds good, appeals to me as that's where the O'Hara is from.  

    Khani - Happy New Year!

    5km from me, just to stretch the legs, seem okay calves just a bit tight.  All these talks of birthdays got me thinking, Sunday's run was marathon 29, by the end of the year I should be on 35-39 which means I could do my 40th near my 40th birthday.  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - great venue for the Sandringham race, not much detail on the course but appears to be trails/woodland going by other races they've held there.   

    I thought your snooker injury had you sidelined for a lot longer...it felt like it  ;)   But your shoulder injury, that really was a very long time, was very painful for you too.


    Ian - I can understand that you want to challenge yourself with a distance further than you've done before, If you can't find a suitable 50 miler why not enter the G2E then, I know it's not August but at least you know the surface is more to your liking than some of the other ultras around.  If you were doing it for sponsorship, quite good to say you're running from one city to another.


    Rcouture - that's great news from the physio.   You really must stop overdoing the strength exercises.  :#  

    Re building back up, I would suggest every other day for now, maybe start with distance no more than 5 miles.  It's better to build up without a set schedule, just see how you go and if all well you can gradually increase distance and frequency.

    Robert - so your ancestors are from Cork. ☘  I'm very fond of Cork, I lived in County Cork for 4 years when a child and went to school in Cork and have been back do to the marathon eight times.   Would have done it more but it often falls on the same weekend as DD.
    Turning into a bit of a nightmare travel wise, no flights from Bristol, might have to go from Heathrow.   But it's possible flights might be reinstated from Bristol if things get more back to normal travel wise.    Hotels are very expensive too, I was expecting that, it's a BH weekend in Ireland. 

    That would be a good goal to do your 40th marathon on your 40th birthday.


    Rest day for me today. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    7 miles this morning, and it felt much colder today, although there was no ice.  The gritters were out around here last night and I was out in the car at around 9pm and it was saying 2deg, but this morning it was 3deg so not freezing.  The road works with the diversion have started, and the diversion I thought I would run is sign posted as a pedestrian diversion, but lots of drivers/vans/lorries are using it as a rat run, and part of it has no pavement so I need a plan B as it was dangers at about 7:30am.  I would not be surprised to hear of an accident around there as it is residential with narrow and winding roads, and fast traffic.  The official diversion is very much out of the way for drivers, so not sure what the answer is except for the road to be officially closed/blocked for traffic, but I can't see how that would work in practice.  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - very cold here too but luckily no ice, although i wasn't running today I hate de-icing the car.

    Surely they'll have to do something about that diversion and block it off to cars or section off enough for a pedestrian walkway.


    I've just spent what felt like all morning booking a hotel for Cork.   All these race logistics used to take up hours of our time.   My favoured hotel is full, not even taking bookings on their own website, then I was dithering for ages about an alternative and then realised as it was a Jury's Inn payment was at time of booking although there is free cancellation.  Have finally chosen one, only downside it's up a steep hill, in fact I think it's the same hill that Lance Armstrong got off his bike and refused to go any further

    https://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/articles/lance-defeated-by-patricks-hill
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rcouture, I did run/walk intervals and gradually increased the run periods. So 1/1 to start with, then 2/1, then 4/1 and so on. I was quite strict about it when coming back from the injury in Spring, but I jumped back in a bit quicker with the Autumn injury.

    That hill looks fun, Shades.  :lol:

    8 miles this morning. Cold but pavements were fine until I got to the penultimate mile and found some slippery frost on one stretch (it had the tarmac-type surface rather than paving stones). I'll likely make tomorrow a gym day as it's going to be even colder (-2 apparently).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - the marathon at Cork is flat, just a couple of gentle undulations.   Cork is built along a river and the marathon follows that and nowhere near the side of the river where that hill is.   Would be a great hill for hill training though.   I think my hotel is on the same level as the top of the hill but to get there is a gentler zigzag road for access.


    8 miles this morning, very cold feels like of -3, but no wind and the roads were dry so not so bad.

    Stretch class and gym this morning.
  • Robert OHaraRobert OHara ✭✭✭
    edited January 6
    Shades I've visited cork about 20 years ago, I was meant to visit over my birthday for a swimming competition but the day before I decided to have a wicket keeping injury (cricket) and headbutted the ball so had stitches in my head.  Well done for getting out this morning, I decided to get my haircut rather than run, will try and get out tonight for a short run.

    Cal good job made it out this morning as potential for a bit of ice out tomorrow.

    Lazy day yesterday but will force myself out for a run tonight even if it's a short distance.  Just remembered have a fair bit of Open Uni work that has to be in next week, the date has cropped up on me and had to ask for an extension.  Looking forward to 2023 when it all should be complete.  Have found a link for Cambridge Boundary run for 2022, I've done the half a couple of times but want to give the full a go, nice low key run on 13th March.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited January 6
    Rob - That sounds a nasty injury. I had sth similar where I ran head first into rugby goalposts, got knocked out and dislocated my shoulder. Mind you I was about 15 so recovered pretty swiftly. 

    Shades - Dublin marathon is on my eventual to-do list. Presumably you’ve done that a few times already?

    30 minutes for me at lunch. Was a run/walk with the walking bits driven by HR going over MAF rather than anything structured. Think will keep it that way. No major issues with the knee. Will run 30 mins every other day for the next week. Downside is that these short runs mean I can’t yet go back to my usual route through the common which I miss desperately but hopefully won’t be too long. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - you've always been a bit accident prone then  ;)

    I remember you mentioning the Cambridge Boundary race before, what distance is that?

    Rcouture - you're no stranger to sporting injuries either then.

    At least you're back out running and you'll soon be back to running your usual distance and without the walking.
    I hope you are remembering to switch on those glutes now, when walking too.


    Stretch class was good and gym too.   Bloody kids turned up in the gym but they weren't really that annoying as only about half the usual number.   Different teacher too, this one looks like he hasn't done any PE for a long time, very overweight, and I caught him hiding in the store cupboard sending a text.    :o
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Had to laugh at the dodging PE teacher. As for my lazy glute, the physio has also been telling me I have to ‘activate’ it more regularly but I’m not too sure how tbh. It’s been getting a lot of work via the strength stuff but whenever I try and switch it on when walking/running, it just looks like I’m having a fit!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - it takes practise to activate the glutes.  All down to muscle memory as our Pilates instructor tells us.

    You need to be activating both glutes.

    Practise this... easier to do lying down, can be when in bed even... gently engage both glutes and release a few times.  Then practise engaging one glute, release, then the other. 

    Next when doing your squats and/or deadlifts focus your mind on using your glutes don't allow quads and hamstrings to do all the work.  It will start to become easier.

    Walking up stairs engage the glutes, then when out walking, easier if striding out and/or going uphill.

    You'll now be getting used to engaging the glutes and how it feels so with a bit of concentration you can do the same when running.

    It's not easy to start with.  You've probably been trying too hard, it's quite subtle.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    It has been a bit of a stressful couple of days with Dad.  He has been very sick 3 or 4 times I think, and the carers are getting a bit fed up with it as they have to clean it up all the time, and for some reason (cost, I suppose) they are only going in individually rather than as a pair at the moment, so it is hard work for them.  Turns out the GP wants him to go to hospital - I happened to be there when she called two days ago and she feels he has a stomach ulcer that needs checking - and he has refused to go in.  She's marked it on his notes to say he refused the medical help that he needs.  His partner is losing the will to live with it all and said she is stepping back from the day-to-day help with the insulin/meds etc.  Can't say I blame her, as he is a nightmare, and on occasion very rude to her (and me).  In a way though, him saying 'no' to the GP was helpful to witness; if he says 'no' to her, I am probably wasting my breath even trying to convince him to go in, so why bother.  It kind of made me realise that I am not actually responsible for his health, but he is - if he makes stupid decisions and goes against medical advice, that is not my fault.  I have spoken to his social worker and he has assured me the carers are still going in and his meds will be picked up by a nurse, so he is still safe for now. 

    No running today, not because of the above, but I just felt a bit tired today.  With the upcoming weekend I would have been on for a 100 mile week, but with a planned rest day tomorrow, I needed 10 miles today which won't happen.  Also haven't Zwifted for a week or so, what with the focus on the marathons over the recent couple of weeks.  It will be nice to get around these next two events, recover a bit, and then get back on with proper training, which will hopefully include some Zwifting too, as I am strangely missing it!  
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Thanks will try. When you say engage, you just mean contract the muscle right? I feel like I’ve gotten good at doing so with the strength work. it’s just trickier when running/walking as it doesn’t feel like the contraction is part of the overall step/movement. 

    Big G - Sorry to hear about your dad. I also know from experience that it’s easier said than done not to blame yourself when it comes to parents, even when it’s objectively not your fault. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - oh dear, he is stubborn, but you can't do any more than you're already doing.   Doesn't mean that it's any less worrying or hurtful for you though.

    Must be tough on his partner too.

    I suppose he doesn't want to go to hospital as he thinks it would end up being a long stay again.

    Rcouture - yes, contract the muscle but gently.   If you practise when lying down and while doing exercises it becomes easier to do the same when running or walking.   It can be mentally quite tiring initially.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Good luck with your Dad.
    Couple of 7 mile runs up to now this week,today's felt rough and it was the first time in a while it took over an hour,but effort and heart rate felt same as usual.
  • Shades had my fair share on injuries, wouldn’t quite put me injury prone bracket.  Cambridge Boundary Run comes as a half or full, as I’ve done the half twice I feel should see what the back half is all about. 

    Rcouture hope you still managed the try when you ran into the rugby posts! Good to see you out running again.

    Big G it’s a horrible situation for you and his partner to be in as you both want the best for him but can’t get him to agree.  

    Ian well done getting out, main thing is keep ticking over.

    5.5 miles wet and cold tonight. Calves a bit tight, am wondering if shuffling rather than running naturally has caused it 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rob, I think you may be even clumsier than me! I usually stack it three or four times a year but I've never done myself a mischief the way you have.
    Enjoy the Cambridge race...I've looked into it before but not sure if it's my cup of tea.

    Big G, sorry to hear about your dad. I remember my dad would get really cranky. I guess being stuck in an ailing body will make you angry...lord knows I get cross with mine when I'm injured, let alone when parts start failing. But you're right, it really is up to him to look after himself, as much as he can.

    Rcouture, as a fellow lazy ass, I sympathise!

    So yesterday I went to the gym and actually did a few deadlifts and squats (quarter squats if I'm being honest...as I just don't have the ROM to do a proper barbell squat). Nothing heavy as I didn't want to shock my old bod too much at this stage. I just went up to 50kg deadlift...I was pulling over 100kg at my peak (117.5kg was my 1 rep PR) but that was in my early 40s when I was focussed on lifting rather than running. Still, I figure adding some power moves back in will help me fight off the ravages of aging and get those old glutes firing, as you say, Shades.

    5 miles today and a balmy 4 degrees. Actually felt half decent for this one. Post tib has been niggly on the last two runs so decided to go with a different shoe. Settled on my Nike Frees even though I've not run in Frees for several years (I mostly use them as a walking around shoe). Going back to a 4mm drop didn't seem to bother my calves and there was no post tib soreness so I guess that might be down to the old Epics (I have now decided to retire the old pink pair with 1200 miles on them, although the "new" pair has nearly 600 miles. I have one more pair left in a box but after that I will have to hunt for a new shoe as Nike doesn't make them any more). I rather enjoyed running in the Frees as, while they're minimal, they're also really light and my legs felt as though they had a bit of bounce. Pace all under 11s despite it being dark for the whole run, which is good news for me, although HR was higher. Felt fine though.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks all for the comments about Dad.  When I step back a bit I do feel really sorry for him.  He has had a really bad 12 months, but he has fought me every, single step of the way.  I mean everything.  I tend to ignore most of it, but hearing him refuse the GP advice was actually helpful in some ways as it just clarified that he is responsible and it is literally pointless arguing.  The GP even said what she thought was happening to him with the ulcer, in fairly explicit terms to explain what may happen if he doesn't get treatment, but he still refused.  It doesn't stop me worrying, but also, it really dawned on me that it is pointless arguing in some ways.  I am afraid it has made me wonder if he is being the way he is because he likes Sandra and I running around after him and giving him a lot of attention.  Maybe if Sandra steps back a bit as she has said, and I basically stop trying to get him to see sense when it is clear that he is not going to budge, it may help the whole situation.  We will see.

    Anyway, did people see the 12hr record go yesterday?  110.24 miles (6:32 min/mile) set by Aleksandr Sorokin.  Bonkers.   https://www.irunfar.com/aleksandr-sorokin-100-mile-12-hour-world-records-2022-spartanion-israel

    Rest day for me today again, in prep for the weekend.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I've done Dublin 15 times.    I wasn't ignoring your question about Dublin yesterday.   Just had to check the spreadsheet when back on the computer this morning.


    Ian - when you say yesterday's run was a bit rough, do you mean your injury is playing up or you're just feeling a bit tired?


    Robert - I've put the Cambridge Boundary race on the list  :)
    I'm sure not running at your usual cadence would give you sore calf muscles.


    Cal - I'm sure you'll be feeling those deadlifts in your glutes today.  :'(   

    I can't squat properly either.   The powerlifter that works in the gym said he was going to teach/train me, I didn't ask him to.   Anyway he is now working at another of the leisure centres so I'm safe for now as I think it would be a painful process and I'm not sure if I'm prepared to risk my running.   My previous instructor just said to squat in a way that is comfortable for me and within my limitations.


    Big G - I'm not sure ending your first 100 mile week with 2 races would have been a great idea, maybe if the races were at the beginning of the week.   I'm sure you could have done it without any problem though.    Weather looks a bit wet for tomorrow, very wet actually 🙄

    You could well be right about your Dad, doesn't make it any easier for you and his partner to take a step back and let him make decisions that you both know are not right.

    Thanks for the link re the new ultra records.    Amazing and what a calm determined look on his face.


    9 miles this morning, chilly wind but fortunately the predicted hail storms did not materialise.   Went out just at dawn so I could get away from the streetlights and use the cycle path.   There's a road that I run often on the way there, no pavements and although it can be busy at times it's usually OK.   But today there are roadworks and they have traffic lights making the part through the roadworks very narrow and no provision has been made for pedestrians, there are a lot of houses accessed from that road.   Had a bit of a hairy time with the traffic running through and I deliberately said good morning to a workman, I wanted to ask how pedestrians were supposed to get through, but he blanked me and turned his back on me.   I decided I would run home a different way as it would be rush hour when I needed to come back but when I was on my return journey I thought 'sod it, I'm a road user too' so set off ready to battle with irate drivers.   When I got to the traffic lights I started to run through then the lights went to green and traffic behind me started to follow me though.  I turned and acknowledged the driver of the first car and he gave me a friendly wave then he carefully stayed behind me and escorted me through.    When the road widened he still didn't overtake me but stayed with me until we were past all the cars waiting in the other direction, then gave me a cheery wave.   The other drivers  waiting didn't look so happy though as they missed their turn on the lights!


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Leg was fine,just felt tired,3 days off after today to look forward to though.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that's good then, it's a miserable time of year for getting out there training.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Just entered Dublin marathon ballot.   Unusual system, €15 to enter ballot, if successful that €15 can be offset against the entry fee.   If unsuccessful then refund of €12, €3 being kept as admin fee.

    Not a bad system as the ballot should only attract those that actually want to run it.  Ballot results in a week's time.    Then there's a 2nd ballot a couple of weeks later for places that weren't taken up in the first ballot.  I don't think there are many places available as they will be holding a lot of deferred places.

    If I was still with my Irish club I could enter as GFA.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Think that's wrong to be fair,never known a ballot where you lose money if unsuccessful.The admin should be shared among the successful people.The €15 deposit and guaranteed to come out should be enough to ensure only people who want to race actually enter.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - Dublin marathon are a not for profit company so I guess that's why they do that to cover the admin costs of having a ballot.   I don't know if this is a new method that they've introduced this year.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - good luck for tomorrow at Plym Trail, hope you don't get too wet.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Good luck for tomorrow,hope the weather there is better than our forecast.
    Shades-I just don't understand that if you get rejected you have to pay,never seen it before.Even though its a tiny amount I wouldn't enter for that reason but I'm sure a lot will.
    7 miles after work,even slower than yesterday, I was planning on going in the morning but seen the weather so swapped my rest day to tomorrow instead of today.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    The weather does indeed look like it is going to be pretty grim.  I am feeling up for it though.  There are also strong winds forecast so hopefully no issues with trees down. Let’s see how it goes :)
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