Shades Marathon Training

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  • @Rcouture - yes I have Manchester!

    18 miles for me tomorrow. I dread the long runs the most tbh; as a natural speedster I find the slow fatigue hard. Will be interesting in the marathon.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - how is the MP that you are supposed to run in training calculated?   Is it target MP or last marathon or current PB.

    Bradders - good luck with tomorrow's long run.   I hate doing long runs but love the marathon and ultra races.  Thankfully they are completely different.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I don't like the winter long runs...but in summer when it's dry and light enough to see, they are great for exploring. Darkness is a lot more limiting.

    Today's parkrun was Burnham-on-Crouch - a small estuary town in Essex. Not one I would have chosen myself but a friend was doing his 200th different parkrun so me and another friend from my club decided to join him. Glad I did, but the journey was a bit stressful. We were booked onto a 6.55am train from Liverpool Street with a change halfway, so no leeway for error. Currently the Bank branch of the Northern Line is out of commission (engineering works until May) so I assumed I'd just get the other branch to Tottenham Court Road and change onto the Central Line there, which adds 10 minutes or so to the journey but isn't a massive deal. However, when I checked the tube page this morning, it said all the Northern Line was closed due to works overrunning, and there were delays on the Central as well. I checked the alternative...train to Victoria then Circle/District Line, but there was no way to make it in time, so I ended up getting the train to Victoria and a £20 black cab from there to Liverpool Street. Made it with 5 minutes to spare but obviously that's not money I wanted to spend. Never mind.

    Anyway, the rest of the journey was uneventful and we arrived in plenty of time. The parkrun itself is a mix of stone path (frosty and slippery), dirt path (fine) and grass (which would've been muddy but was actually nice and firm due to the frost). I went for a warm-up mile and took a wrong turn somewhere, so ended up having to jump over a small stream to get back to the start...just as they'd set off.
    So I then had to leg it past the back markers which left me quite out of puff. Still, I did enjoy the two lap course...while I had to slow down a bit on the frosty paths, I pushed more on the other parts and came in at 28:25...not fast but my fastest of the year so far, at least.

    We then went to a local cafe for cooked breakfast. A nice morning out, in all. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, there is the below table, but also a section on all out ‘tune up’ races to help define the MP. I think in my case I reckon I’m in about 1:30 Half shape (give or take) and will base MP off of that from the pace calculators....if I actually do those sessions!

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that was a good adventure today, albeit a bit stressful travel wise, with a rewarding cooked breakfast.

    Big G - interesting chart.  So you could do the MP at recommended HR from the chart.   Might not seem quite so challenging than a defined pace, at least in the early weeks.

    More stats for you to analyse  :)
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Think I’m a weirdo, there’s nothing I like best than a long, slow plod 😀. Can’t wait to start them again. 

    Big G - I recall reading that book now which was great but my issue was all the vo2max and anaerobic workouts in the plans which put me off a bit. 

    Shades - Re the glute activation, I am still doing all my exercises and trying to be mindful when walking around and sitting for long periods though it’s easy to forget during daily life/work tbh. In theory and so far in practice, less pelvic tilt means more glute engagement while running. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23
    Rcouture - you're doing well with the glute activation then.   :)

    I'm trying to keep my mileage up to 50mpw but with the ice this week I had a bit of catching up to do today so had to run  a little further than I would have liked.  14+ miles done, had a mixed run, not so good in the early stages but once I'd done a few miles flat and I started on a couple of decent hills and some further undulations I started to settle into it and enjoyed most of it.   Some of the country lanes are very narrow and I met a tractor, not room for both of us, so he kindly stopped and waited while I legged it up this hill to pass him, could have done without that really as I felt obliged to run as hard as I could while he waited.   Saw the first snowdrops this year and also saw an owl.   I hear the owls a lot around here but they are quite elusive and rarely see them.   Weather was good, just a bit colder than I would like.

    Week's mileage 50.86
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited January 23
    RCouture, yes I think those are tough as well, and what have broken me in the past.  I cannot see me adding those in, at least not as prescriptive as in the plans.  The odd session with the tri club will suffice I would have thought.

    Shades, well done on the mileage today and for the week as well.  Probably you've thought about it, but do you consider going out a bit later in the day at all when it is cold like this?  I had a couple of runs this week at around 10am-ish in decent sun (for the time of year, anyway), where as 3 or 4 hrs earlier it wasn't ideal conditions.  Downside of course is that it is busier with pedestrians and traffic etc.  Probably going later doesn't fit with your gym work either.

    We went out with some friends last night for a meal.  He's my best mate but we have only seen them twice since the pandemic.  Last night was the first time they've been out so it was quite big thing for them, but we all enjoyed it.  Late night though as I was obviously aware of the looming 15-miler this morning....

    ... and alarm went off at 6:30am to a big groan from me, but I got up and had breakfast etc.  My plan was to do 6-miles, then [email protected] and then 1-mile home, but if things weren't feeling good just ditch the session and do the mileage at MAF.  I really wasn't feeling it on the 6-miles, not helped by the fact that I had to use the loo (good old Garmin Pay came to the rescue!), but I started the 8 miles and got into it, and finished the session.  I was aiming for about 7:20/mile so too quick, but I felt pretty good as I got into it.  HR clearly shows I wouldn't be able to do that for 26.2 though I think (ranging from 82-88% max, although I wasn't looking at my HR on the run), so it was a bit quick but also too cold, which is partly the reason for the quicker pace!  If I do another one of these though I will need to try and slow it down a bit I think.  Pretty sure I could have done a few more miles at around that, but glad to get home out of the cold.  57 miles for the week.


  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23
    Big G - when I stopped working, it was the end of a December, I was so looking forward to training in daylight as no longer governed by working hours.   For the January I ran in daylight, it was a very mild January and lots of sunny days.   But before the month was over I found the traffic (no so much the pedestrians) was far more annoying than the cold and dark mornings.   I live in the town and to avoid the traffic I could head out on the country lanes but many are used as rat runs, so if I ran later I would be very limited by safe routes.   I've decided if it's icy or too cold I'll either do a short morning run and another late afternoon.   It would disrupt my classes and gym too if I ran later in the morning.   I am naturally an early morning person and am usually up at 5 a.m., just my favourite time of day.

    Well done for doing your MP session, 82-88% is pretty good, remember you were running it in cold blood which makes it feel so much harder.   Splits were good too.  7:06 would roughly be the right pace, twice your half time + 7 mins divide by 26.2.
    That's a really good week for you.

    What does P & D have for you this week?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, it’s a bit complicated the coming week as the Tri club have a handicap 5K on a measured, traffic free course on Thursday evening. If it’s not too cold/windy I want to give it a go. It’s interesting as if we’re more than 4% quicker than our predicted time, we’re DQ’d. I suggested this to Chair for our Trotters handicap event and he just said ‘Imagine the fallout if certain people were DQ’d’ :) I’ve told the Tri club 19:30 so we’ll see what happens, but if it’s windy I won’t bother I don’t think. 

    Anyway, below is the plan though. Tues & Weds will (more or less) happen at MAF, and possibly a recovery run on Thursday AM prior to the race that evening.   But if I do the race I won’t do Friday’s session. And for Sunday I may just attempt the mileage but I’ll decide on that nearer the time. 


  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Nice mileage. What do you mean by running in ‘cold blood’ being harder? I also really dislike running near cars so it’s fortunate that despite being in London, between the commons/parks, canal and river paths, it’s quite easy to avoid. Strange to think that being in the middle of the city. 

    Big G - That’s a monster session. Must be encouraging to get that done so early in the training block. Will be interesting to track the HR in future MP long runs. 

    3 miles for me. No pain to report which is great. Rest day tomorrow. 18 miles this week. Will probably aim for 25 this coming week. The focus is on building frequency back to my normal 5-6 days. The week after will be about building length of runs, all being well. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - in cold blood, I mean not in a race.   That's why it's so hard to run at race pace in training.

    That's good that you have such a good selection of routes and safe places to run, not close to traffic.    The disadvantage of a small town is our parks are tiny, no more than a couple of hundred yards some of them and very few dedicated paths/cycle ways.   Everyone drives here, public transport isn't practical for most people so lots of cars.

    That's a really good week, great progress.


    Big G - that's an interesting plan for next week, what does 415k to HMP mean?   Next weekend's long run looks easier, I'm not saying it is, just looks easier  ;)

    If you're doing Monday and Tuesday at MAF pace you should be fine to do the 5k, great chance, is it a race, would it count if you did a PB?   I love the DQ idea if you're more than 4% faster.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, well done.  You're getting there.

    Shades, I lifted that plan from my Fetch profile and it is a formatting error.  It is "9 miles, with 4-miles at 15K to Half Marathon Pace".  For slower runners (and I am putting myself in that as when they talk about faster runner they are talking about 2:45 runners), they say err towards 15K pace, not that I know what that is, but I could work it out.  But if I do the Thursday event, I won't do that session anyway as it would be too much.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    That explains it then.   I tried HMP when I tried the Connemara plan, it nearly killed me  ;)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I missed your question about the 5K. It’s on a measured course but it’s an internal club event so won’t be published anywhere officially. 50 runners have entered it though, which is way more than I get for the Trotters one, even though the Tri club is a smaller club. But if I do okay at it, it’ll give me the incentive to find a proper race at some point. One slight issue is that it’ll be dark - the club do have lights and they’re adequate but not perfect for lighting. I have seen I’m starting with a lady who I know, so it’ll be interesting to see if we run together or not. I’m pretty sure she’s quicker than that though - regularly under 19 at parkrun I think, even with the bit of off road. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    It doesn't matter that it's not a race as you can easily find a 5k to do.    Hope the weather is OK for it, should be if the weather stays as it has been the last few days.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    8 miles this morning, cold but no ice.   I was tired yesterday after my run and RHR was slightly raised this morning so decided to see how I felt out for my run before deciding the distance.   But I felt great once I started running and did the full scheduled 8 miles.
    Definitely starting to get lighter in the mornings, I could have done the last 2 miles on the back road but I ran home that way yesterday so didn't want to do the same route again.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Back from our break,managed to run 3 times on holiday,only 5.5m each day with OH but good to get out.
    Got a week off now so going to try a few different places I don't normally get to run.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I am looking forward to it being light at 6, Shades...that's for sure.

    Yesterday was a bit of a failure from a running perspective as totally bailed on my long run. I just couldn't face it and felt like I needed to stay indoors and do absolutely nothing (which is exactly what I did). Not sure if it was down to the various stresses of the past week or the shingles (which probably popped out because of said stresses) but I felt bone tired, unmotivated and my throat was a bit scratchy.
    Rather than try and do the long run today, I decided I would just do a short run to see how I felt. Ended up doing 6 miles and it went OK so I guess the rest day helped.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - nice to have some time to explore new routes.   Hope the leg niggle/injury is better.

    Cal - you obviously needed that rest day.   No need to run long every weekend either.
  • Robert OHaraRobert OHara ✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    Cal life can get on top sometimes and affect us but a bit of time out usually helps, well done on getting out today and glad felt okay

    Ian glad you had a nice break, I'm shocked no one has commented on your strava about the shape of your run.  I can no longer do a local 5 miler after Cal likened my route to something  :D

    Rcouture great news you're recovering well! 

    Shades I'm not much of an early riser, 5am rarely gets seen! 

    Big G would take a special effort to get hmp in a long run! 

    bradders hope the long run went well.

    Been decided wfh for the time being, may change once we have heard of our future from the next board meeting.  Managed to drag myself away from studying yesterday for 11 miles, ran at my target marathon pace (4hrs) and was tiring by the end.

    Few weeks ago got a msg from the place I booked for DD, they told me the price I was quoted was wrong and needed to rebook (was cheaper).  Bizarrely got an email today saying that room was cancelled.  Emailed them back and said that was an error and got them to confirm the booking was still live.  Fingers crossed no issues!

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-OH noticed that,though about starting at the straight point to complete the look 😅
    Have you booked the Keyberry? I have there but not had any messages.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, well done for listening to your body and not going out yesterday.

    Robert, I saw Ian's routes too, and sniggered, so glad it wasn't just me :)

    Ian, hopefully you had a nice time away.   What was it like with the restrictions etc?  No problem?  Regarding Seville I was reading that a different large event was cancelled fairly recently, so I am not sure about Seville now, even if I do get a place!

    Rest day today in the plan, although P&D says it can be used for cross training, which for me I take to mainly mean Zwifting, so I may jump on a bit later.  We have been for a nice 3-mile walk around some woods near us, and stopped off for lunch at the cafe afterwards too :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Santa Pola half marathon happened in Alicante at the weekend,think it had 10,000 so hopefully seville is fine.
    No real difference to here,asked to wear a mask in indoor areas and no restrictions elsewhere,no issues at all.
  • Ian think the price was £60 for two persons £50 for one.  They had charged £60 pn for me on my own.  Undecided if to stay one or two nights yet.

    Has someone done Madeira marathon here? one of my mates did it yesterday and really enjoyed it.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - when I was your age I was a party animal and 5 a.m. was more likely to be the time I came home.  🤣

    That's a good week's training from you too.   The weeks seem to be galloping by now.  😮

    Good you got your booking for DD  confirmed now and at the correct price.  

    We discussed Madeira marathon on here a while ago as Ian took a holiday there but none of us have run it.  I'm sure it's multi laps, as there's not really any flat land there.   But I saw runners giving it good reviews.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    6 miles today, weather unchanged cold and dry.   Chose the wrong route today as there was loads of traffic around from a diversion due to roadworks, just heard on the radio the roadworks had overrun the night session so that explains it.   

    Pilates this morning followed by gym session.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Rob - Some unfortunate shapes on Ian’s Strava indeed

    Ian - Sounds like you had a lovely time. Nice time of year to get away too 

    Shades - Nice 6 miles. Would love to hear more about your party days 🤔!

    Just under 4 miles for me this morning. Cold but no frost so good conditions. Niggles all fine. Incredibly slow but no walk breaks required at MAF which is nice. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - that's a good run from you, no walks required, no niggles.  You're definitely on your way back to fitness.

    Party days, a dim and distant past now.   I was fortunate at one time to have a job doing the accounts for a leisure company, not gyms!   Nightclubs, pubs, restaurants and theatre shows so it was a great social life.   When we bought a new nightclub they needed someone at short notice to help out so I worked on the door of a nightclub taking the money for a couple of nights.   Loved it, stayed for a couple of years doing that, enjoyed working with the doormen, dress suit, wing collar shirt, bow tie.    :)
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - That does sound fun. Friend of mine has a similar job where he works for a company that invests in bars and clubs and his job is to restructure their new acquisitions. He essentially works most nights. Not been good for his health mind you. Presumably this was before your running days? I can’t imagine running these miles if I was going out like I was in my 20s
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