Shades Marathon Training



  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, I occasionally get issues with ITB.  I had a short spell a year or two back.  Sounds a bit odd probably, but I think on that occasion it was at least partly down to me absentmindedly crossing my legs (stretched out in front of me) on  the sofa.  I also occasionally get a slight niggle around there if I wear running shoes that are past their best and it is one of the indications that I need to retire a pair of shoes.  But mainly it is manageable for me.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Hill reps for me today, as part of a 7 mile run. I made this a later run (10am) so it would be light and I'd be more awake, but it did mean a couple of traffic stops (one before the hills and one after...won't lie, I was grateful for that second stop) as I had to get across some busy roads to get to Theatre Street, the hill in question. And I had about as much fun at the theatre as Abe Lincoln.
    I actually wanted to figure out a good working max HR and while it's been over 190 at some parkruns and races, I only got it as high as 186 today (reps were 178, 181, 183, 185, 186, 186) so I figure that's as good a figure as any. 
    Tomorrow will be a gym day.
    Rcouture - yes, most have ITB issues when they first increase distance, commonly training for their first marathon.   But I've known a few that it's been a more persistent and painful injury problem and much harder to get rid of.   But they have got rid of it.   I still do a basic ITB stretch daily.
    The only time I've had a niggle since was I went through a spell of a few months when driving home a long distance after a marathon and my ITB would be sore on the drive home with my left leg.  Probably aggravated by being on the motorway and not needing to change gear for hours and the ITB tightening.

    Cal - well done on the hills.

    Not sure what you mean my working max heart rate?

    Big G - good luck for tonight's 5km.  Are you bringing out those fancy American shoes?  Sorry I've forgotten the name of them.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Something I can calculate my zones from.
    Cal - you'd need your max HR for that.  And RHR if you're going to calculate working heart rate zones.

    Probably not wise to do a max test until you've got the all clear from cardiology department.

    I'd suggest you use the highest you've seen race/parkrun as your max just to be cautious for now.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, the American ones are Atreyu The Artist.  I really like them but I went with the Nike Vaporflys this evening to give them a run out.  It was the first time I have donned them since the 10K I did in September.  

    It is on on a measured, traffic-fee, tarmac course and I donned a pair of short-shorts and the super-shoes and did 18:48 (km splits 3:43, 3:51, 3:45, 3:38, 3:40), which was encouraging!   Splits suggest a quicker time is possible I suppose, but I don't race many 5Ks at all so didn't know what pace to try for.  It was enjoyable finishing feeling strong in a 5K for once, and I know there is more in the tank.  Perfect conditions for me, as it was cool but no wind, so we were really lucky with that.  A great event; there were over 50 there and I started something like 6th to last, and it was a mad scrum at the finish :)  I think I crossed the line in a crowd of around 10-12 people all just a few seconds apart.   Starting that far back was really encouraging though as there was always someone ahead to catch, no mater what pace they were doing.  I really enjoyed it.  Thinking about it now, my official PB was basically an individual time trial during Covid times, so this really gives me the confidence to try for closer to 18:30 in a proper race.  It is a PB for a 5K but I need to find an official race, as I know I can beat this time. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Rapid racing,well done,what's your official best? Think it's over 19 isn't it?
    Another 40 mins on the bike tonight,hoping to do a long run tomorrow which will bump the mileage up.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, official PB is 19:23. I’ve just seen a video of the finish line tonight and everyone was really close!  I was only 4-secs inside my 4% cut off, so that was close and I’m not DQ’d :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Sounds silly probably, but I was really buzzing last night.....and then I couldn't sleep!  Yawning my head off now!

    OH is off to London for the weekend.  She met a load of friends online doing online exercise classes back in the first lockdown.  One of the online trainers is doing a class in London, and a few of them are going up to that for the weekend.  Keeping in mind how often we usually travel in pre-Covid times, she has got herself a bit flustered about what to pack (she has not done many weekends away recently!), but I will be dropping her off at the station shortly.
    Big G - no wonder you're buzzing that was a fantastic run, well done.   A great boost to your training too.  Cutting it fine on the 4% rule.   ;)

    Sorry, but out of curiosity I ran it through the race predictor and for the marathon the time didn't start with a 3.....   :open_mouth::):):)

    Heavy frost this morning  but roads and pavements predominantly dry and safe for running.   8 miles done, had to run through the roadworks and now they've removed the safe pedestrian route but it's OK as the road is wider, didn't stop a stupid bitch nearly running me over, I hope she heard what I called her.  :#   Had a good run, but legs are tired from the gym.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ha ha, yes, I did see that.  Garmin and Stryd are showing about 3:10, McMillan 3:03 and elsewhere 2:58.  Seems ridiculous, quite frankly, and we know 5K isn't the best prediction of a marathon time.  I want do try and do well at Bideford Half and I will use that to dial in the pace a bit for Manchester.  But for the first time in a long time I have to at least consider GFA though, I suppose.  I was close when it used to be 3:15, but then the qualifying times got quicker.  I can't find the actual times for my age from a very quick Google but the time was sub-3:10, with the eventual cut off about 3:07 I believe.  First things first though, as I need to get to the start line yet :)   But definitely, last night was a good night, and I was a great feeling.  

    I have entered a Half for next week, but it is not a PB course from the look of it.  There is 17 miles on the plan and I may use it as more of a training run, and do a couple either side.  Not decided yet.  OH is at work that Sunday so I thought I may as well enter it and get a run out.  It is in Dorset but with an 11am start it is not too early a start from here.  It is called Blackmore Vale and I have not heard of it before or done it before, but it is in its 29th year.   The website is pretty old school though!   I was perusing the results and Adam Holland won it last year in 1:14 and Steve Way did 1:12 there in 2017.
    Big G - the one I use shows 2:59.   It's not ridiculous as it shows you have the ability to achieve that time.   But we all know there are a multitude of factors that have to come together in unison on the day for it to happen.   But what the prediction should give you is an extra boost to your mental strength that you can use on race day.

    Men 45-49 is 3:10 for London GFA, 2022 that is.

    I've done Blackmore Vale twice, really enjoyed it.   My sort of course undulating country lanes.   If it's the same route there's a steep hill up to the finish.   But despite that my times were OK.   It used to be organised by the Lions Club and I remember they had great cakes.    :)   

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, that was the GFA time which enabled runners to apply, but they weren't guaranteed to get in with that time I don't think.  I think the actual time ended up something like 3:07?  Probably Ian will know.  Yes, it is still Lions Club; let's hope the cakes are still there, unlike at Cockington with the non-existent Xmas cake!  The site does mention the 'infamous last mile'....
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-They have done the new cut off twice now,the first time everyone under got in,last year it was 3:07:28.For 2023 it's a slightly smaller window from the day after last London to August 7th,so doesn't include London or Berlin so might be an easier time this year.
    That's a great improvement,good you feel there's more there,I managed a couple of sub 18's,so no reason you can't get there.
    Big G - yes I know faster times were needed than the 3:10, but just aiming for the official time first is a good goal for you.

    I do hope there are still the excellent cakes there for you.   It's a very popular race with the Dorset Clubs, I think usually part of their league.   Would be a good club championship race for the Trotters, unless it's considered too far from home.   It's a fairly quick drive, you drive through Bishops Caundle on the way to Sturminster Newton.   The hill to the finish is not a mile long, it's just a sting in the tail when you're looking for the entrance into the field to the finish.  When I did it we ran down that hill at the start of the race.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - Fabulous race, so speedy. It’s very inspiring to see great results with MAF. Sub 3 can’t be far I’m sure. 

    5 miles for me into work this morning. Good news is not a peep from the bursa but I got a faint feeling of ITB for the last half mile which isn’t great as haven’t felt anything there since the beginning of the year. I knew yesterday sth felt off hence my rest day. Hopefully it’s last stages of this thing which is so frustrating. This time I’m not going to stop running though as that clearly doesn’t help much. Will just limit to short runs and hope the strength work finally kicks this thing for good. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I am not sure why, but when I entered it the other day it said it was part of the league, but yesterday when I got the email with the race number, it said that was an error and it isn't in this year.  The email does have the instruction below that I don't think I have ever seen before.  I will see what others are doing, but obviously my Trotters top isn't hi-viz....
    Police request - As the race is run on roads not closed to traffic, the Dorset Police have requested that runners wear bright coloured hi-viz tops.  

    I went out a bit later today, although I was up early and only got 4hrs of sleep.  Just under 10-miles on an undulating, and I did a lollipop route.  About 2.5 miles out to a 5-mile country road loop, and then the 2.5 miles back.  It was supposed to be a tempo session according to the P&D plan but after yesterday's effort I had no reason to attempt that, and just stuck to MAF.

    OH has arrived in London, so it's just Tigg and I for the weekend ;)
    Rcouture - it seems that your ITB and the bursa fight for your attention.   ;)

    It's so very difficult to know what is a passing twinge or a niggle/potential injury.  I think you're doing the right thing by carrying on running.  

    On another note, I entered Shepperdine Marathon this morning, Big G and I both did our best 2021 times there, £25 including the t-shirt.   

    I also entered Great Welsh and they asked for Covid vaccination status, first time I've been asked that for a race entry.
    Big G - I've seen that request about high visibility tops before.   Just a response from the police in conjunction with race organisers that maybe don't realise club runners would normally wear club colours.   I have had to do it once in an ultra when we started just as it was getting light.
    I think you'll find some runners will and some won't.  Do you have a high visibility cap perhaps? 

    When you get your 100 club top that has high visibility panels.

    You and Tigg can slob out for the weekend then 😉 as long as you get that long run done at some time.

    You'll sleep well tonight.   I don't sleep so well if I run or race in the evening.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Not a great pic I agree but here’s one of me with about 200m to go. You can see how close it was and there was a large group just ahead of me. I think the 4% thing kept everyone honest. It really made it a great event. 

    I think the picture will be a lot clearer on my PC than on my phone 🙂
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    It was dark Shades so the pic isn’t good, but it just shows how close everyone was near the finish. Much closer than when I sort out the handicap race for Trotters. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Is your race an evening race? If not no reason for hi vis I'd have thought.
    Shades-When I entered Boston I had to tick a box to say I was fully vaxxed and they said they will check at the expo.
    14 miles today,4 miles to my hilly loop then 8 miles of my hilly loop and 2 home,felt OK until the last hill and I just had nothing left,had a cold the last few days but clearing now.
    edited January 29
    Big G - much better pic on my PC, I can see how hard you're working by the look on your face.   Same for the guy behind you.

    Ian - I guess the vax status question was because the race is in Wales and possibility of vaccine passports for large events could have been under consideration.

    I see you're starting the hillier long runs now as your Boston/DD prep.    :)

    10 miles this morning, lovely and mild morning, a balmy 10 degrees so happy legs today.   Ran out to Stover Lake and did a lap around there, lots of ducks etc including at least 10 pairs of mandarin ducks.   There were 2 guys with very fancy cameras on the edge of the lake, I thought they were twitchers so stopped and asked what they were looking for.   But they weren't twitchers, they were photographers taking pictures of the sunrise/daybreak across the lake and raving about the light.

    Gym later 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, it's a daytime race, starting at 11am....

    Went along to parkrun today for the planned recovery run.  Just a nice and easy effort.  I will probably jump on Zwift later for an easy 45-60mins-ish, and then it is a planned 17 tomorrow.  The plan shows some pace work in the 17-miler, but I am not going to do that, partly because mine will be a fairly hilly route.  I will do it to MAF, but my HR will go a bit higher on the hills anyway.  Weather looks better (less windy) for tomorrow too.  I do need to get out on the hills for DD really, as I have no hilly marathons planned in the lead up to that, although I do have a hilly Half in March.

    There were 63 runners in that event I did on Thursday.   Amazing really, as it is not a big club.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Nice 10 miles. 

    Big G - Enjoy the hilly long run. They get me fit quite fast so look forward to those again

    Just under 4 miles for me. ITB felt faintly for last mile which is fine. Think part of the ITB issue is what I recall from the first time I had it which 
    is that it’s worse for me the slower I go. It’s a bit of a catch 22 when I’m so unfit. Anyway was actually a nice run with super mild temps if quite blowy. 

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done on the run, Shades.

    RCouture, I can't comment on the speed/ITB-issue really, but I am glad you managed to get out there and felt generally okay.

    There is a 5-mile race in Exmouth on Tuesday evening.  I may see if I can give it a go, but OH is off work that day and we have a few plans, so it may not work out anyway, and I will keep an eye on the forecast as that will be a deciding factor too.  I'll report back if I do it, but I'd hope for around 31mins.   If I don't do it this month, there are opportunities in Feb and March.  I have entered a fast 10K in Yeovil, 2 weeks after Manchester marathon, so that will hopefully be the target race for the 10K distance, all being well.  I promised myself I would never have to do another 10K ever again after the last one nearly finished me off and I got my target time....but I seem to have entered one.  Sigh.
    Rcouture - a good run from you too today.

    What could affect your ITB is the camber of running surface so if there is a camber try and swap sides when you can.

    Big G - enjoy your hilly long run tomorrow, much more enjoyable than a flat route  ;)

    Having run that fast 5km you can't really avoid seeing what you can do at a 10km, but it's a while away yet.

    Gym was nice and quiet.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rcouture, I always found my niggling achilles was worse on slow runs. I daresay our form is better the faster we go, no? Well done.

    I've never done a 5 mile road race, Big G - the Wimbledon trail series races are 5 miles but it's hard to get an idea of speed when trying to negotiate the technical Alps and slog up the Toast Rack on Wimbledon Common (especially on hot summer evenings!)
    Good photo, that.

    Shades, I love mandarins. We sometimes get them on Tooting Common but they're not permanent residents there.

    Today's offering was Barclay parkrun, which is north of London. I chose this one as it wasn't too hard to get to (tube up to Tottenham and then a short train journey that is covered by my Oyster card even though it's outside London...then a very pleasant one mile walk, half of which was along a canal. Saw two cormorants and a little egret). The other draw was that its winter course is all on hard path, which I fancied after weeks of scrambling about on dirt, mud and grass.
    The downside is that the winter course is a super-lapper - four laps of the park (which includes a long, if not steep climb, and then a slightly steeper descent) followed by two laps of a small lake. I probably wouldn't have done a hill sprint session two days ago had I known about the climb, but never mind.
    Time was a rather underwhelming 29:01 - looking at my Garmin map, the slowest bit was the downhill which I came down rather cautiously as I was wearing my Zoom Flys. The most disappointing part of that was I need a :00 or a :03 for my parkrun bingo, both of which I missed.
    The time itself wasn't good but if I compare it to Clair parkrun, a hilly four lapper I did at the beginning of 2020 before all the injury and health issues, and around the time I set 10K and HM PBs, it's not so bad as I did 28:09 there. Clair does have a bit more climb but they're fairly comparable.
    HR maxed out at 190 for this one but other than feeling out of puff, I felt completely fine.
    Cal - another adventure for you today to a different parkrun.  You must be an expert on travel logistics now.

    I've only ever seen 2 pairs of the mandarins at that lake before.   The females are really pretty, but overshadowed by the flamboyant males.
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