Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2022
    Big G - great news about Seville, is that the 20th Feb?    I don't have much to add to the list at the moment  ;)

    I think you can do a good PB tonight, it was windy when I was out but not constant and not a problem and I think it's due to lessen as the day goes on.

    I've heard nothing about race cancellations either despite the high numbers of cases here and in Europe.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Great news on Seville,think you'll enjoy it.Races seem to be going ahead in most countries now and there's barely any restrictions around now.
    Yeah it's pretty painful at the minute,took plenty of painkillers so trying to keep mobile to ease it.
  • Big G - Awesome news re Seville. Is this no98? Is it your first trip abroad post COVID?

    Ian - Ouch re your back. Hopefully not a long recovery 

    Shades - Nice 8 miles

    6 miles for me in a lovely feels like 12 and sunshine. Wind had died down too. ITB there but pretty minimal. My runs continue to be pretty X-rated however given all the thrusting and glute-grabbing to ensure engagement so had a couple of funny looks in the common 😬.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, yes my last trip abroad was Marrakech in Jan 2020!  Yeah, this will be 98, and then Manchester is 99 and Belfast 100 (all being well!). 

    Shades, yes it’s 20th Feb.

    We’ve been out for the day in the van, which has been nice. It has been in the garage last week as there was some issue causing the leisure battery to drain very rapidly, but that’s been sorted now under warrantee.  Glad it’s sorted as we’ve got quite a few plans involving the van this spring/summer. 
  • Big G, that's fab news! So happy for you. 

    Rcouture, that's a hilarious image! 

    Shades....you don't mince your words do you?  :D (Re: the 3 hour "rule"). But I'm inclined to agree. My best marathons have been after cycles involving several runs of 20 miles or more. So there's that.

    OK so the possible ultra is a new one from Runthrough, around Ladybower (and neighbouring reservoirs). It's on the 18th of June so the day after my birthday. Colin's often suggested Ladybower as a place for us to go for a walk so it's not too far from him and he's said he'll drive me, though it'll mean getting up at arse o'clock as the race is a 7am start. There's a choice of 50km and 100km so obviously I'd be doing the 50. But I'm not booking anything until after I've done the rest of the cardiologist stuff. (The 24 hour monitor is next week but then I've another month to wait for the phone consult).

    As for now, I felt pretty wiped out yesterday...did go to the gym and did an easy 30 minutes on the bike but then had no energy for lifting, even though I was intending to do upper body stuff. I guess running for 3 hours 40 tends to hit you on a systemic level as well as a muscular one. So today I did a ridiculously slow recovery run, based on heart rate (given I have the heart of a small mammal, trying to keep it below 140 is monstrously hard). It did go over but I managed to average under 140 at least, though I was reduced to jogging at a pace I can actually walk at, which seemed to me quite daft. Anyway, hopefully I will now be nice and recovered for my run tomorrow.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited February 2022
    It was Exmouth 5-miler this evening, which is 2xout-and-backs on the seafront.   It was far from ideal conditions as it was a head wind on the outward legs and a tailwind on the return legs.  You can see my 1.25 mile splits below, where the third leg was bad, but that was the best I could do!  
    1. 07:50
    2. 07:55
    3. 08:26
    4. 07:48 
    This was 31:59 which was a big PB (2.5mins), although it is only my 3rd 5-miler ever, with the last one back in 2018.  There were some fast guys there today with the winner doing it in 25:10.  I was hoping for a minute quicker than this, which I think is possible for me, but I can't be disappointed with a PB I suppose!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I hope you're not overdoing the hip thrusting  ;)  


    Cal - I'm renowned for my rants  : :o 

    I know you are far too sensible and knowledgeable about running to take any notice of the 3 hour misguidance but unfortunately a beginner might not and they would have a miserable and painful marathon. 

    I just looked at the Ladybower Ultra, looks perfect for your first ultra and a nice birthday weekend for you.   50km is the ideal distance for a first ultra too.   I laughed at the race entry page you have the opportunity to buy a pair of socks at the time of race entry. :)


    Big G - that is huge PB over that distance, well done.   Doesn't matter it wasn't ideal conditions, if we all waited until everything was perfect not much would happen in life, or running.    But you know on a still day you can knock another minute off.   Great running.  


    Rest day for me today.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited February 2022
    Shades, thanks.  Yeah, I am glad I turned up, as there aren't many opportunities around for a 5-miler.  The last in the race series is on 1st March, and I will keep my eye on the weather for that one, but if it is similar to yesterday I won't bother I don't expect.  Nice to get an official time as well (course measurement accuracy certificate etc), as last week's 5K wasn't official.  Seeing the leading guy out there was most impressive - Tom Merson - known quite well locally.  There is a video of him going around the cone to start the second lap and he is flying.  He got 87% age grading.  Just scanning down the results though and there was a FV55 lady who did 32:38, 95%!  I was 74%.  Thinking about it now, I left at 5pm, got there for 6pm, did a 3 mile warm up, did the race, 1-mile cool down back to the car, got back home at 8:40pm, showered by 9pm, and then had food.  So that is four hours of faffing for a 5-mile race....but a 14 mile day in the end.  

    Average HR was 180 (92% max) and peaked at 187 (95%).  Ooooph.

    I feel like I have been in a race though, so I am just doing a short recovery run today.  I think my week will end up looking nothing like the P&D plan in terms of sessions, but the weekly mileage will be similar at the end.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2022
    Big G - that's a good day's racing and training.   92% with a 95% peak, ouch, I'm not surprised you're a bit tired today.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    5-mile recovery run this morning was something of a struggle!
  • Fab race, Big G - well done. And yes, I'm not surprised you are tired!

    Very mild today - I went out at 6am and only needed a T-shirt (I still wore the long leggings though as I like to keep the potentially niggly bits nice and warm). Got 11 miles done, pretty slowly, but the legs felt OK and energy levels were good so I guess the recovery run helped. 
    Need to lose some weight though...giving up chewing gum seems to have resulted in a voracious appetite. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, have you ever done Lytchett 10 mile road race in Dorset?  It is on 13th Feb and I am bit wary of making sure I don't race too often, but there aren't many 10-milers around.  Website says it is hilly and 1000ft of elevation though.   My 10 mile PB also needs adjustment hence me looking at it, although as I say it is hilly (having said that, my current PB course is hilly too).

    Cal, that ultra of yours sounds a great one, and even more so that it coincides with your birthday and works with seeing Colin :)   Personally I would like the 7am start, as I suppose it could be warm in June and it would be good to get a decent bit done before it warms up too much.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-I had look at that after you said but it's the week after DD so doubt I'd be up to a other one.
    Big G-Well done on the PB,more to take off next time again.
    Back still not good,seems to be improving but still a dull ache across the base.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - your increased appetite might be related to your return to fitness too, now you're running better.

    Nice and mild here today too.

    Big G - not heard of that one.  I have looked at Wiltshire 10, think that's the 13th too. 
    https://www.entrycentral.com/Wilts10

    Ian - glad you are starting to recover.
  • Big G - Well done on the PB, you’re smashing it at the moment

    Ian - Fingers crossed you’ve passed the worst on your back

    5 miles home from work. Zero pain on the knee this run. Incredibly slow at MAF even compared to recent runs but think I was knackered after a crazy day at work. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - zero pain, that's really good progress.

    8 miles this morning, we had some rain during the night but didn't rain while I was running.   Went out a bit earlier to avoid the traffic, makes for a much more pleasant run.

    Stretch class followed by gym this morning.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, well done on your pain free run.  That is great news!  I know MAF is frustrating - very frustrating! - but it will come.  Yeah, I am running well at the moment, I just hope it transpires into a decent marathon.  Time will tell.  I am looking forward to some of the shorter races as well though, which I haven't really been able to do as much of since I have been trying to get to 100 marathons.

    Shades, thanks, I hadn't come across that race.  I won't enter either just yet but I will see how I am next week.

    Up early this morning for a 10-miler.  After yesterday's run I had a slight pain in my foot again, which seems to be coming and going at the moment.  I did stretches etc yesterday and it seemed okay again this morning, thankfully.  

    Some good news as well, as OH's parents are coming over for a few days and have booked their flights.  It is still not really possible for OH to go there as she has to isolate when there, so they're coming here :)  They still have isolate when they get back I think, but it's not so much of an issue for them.  We have booked a fancy restaurant for when they are here, and we are looking forward to seeing them!  I come back from Seville and then they are arriving two days later.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - the Wiltshire 10 is organised by Stampede Sports, they also organise the Hullavington marathon and I was impressed with their friendliness and organisation.   Don't think you get cake for the 10 miler though.  ;)

    I have done one 10 mile race in Dorset, Portland 10, usually in July.  Not flat though, but a lovely race, you run down to Portland Lighthouse and back up again.  The medal was made of the local stone.   I would do that race again, I do like a 10 miler.

    Annoying that pain in your foot, hope it goes away.

    That's great news about OH's parents coming to visit, must be a long time since she's seen them.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    The only 10-miler I have done is Braunton 10 (twice), and that was back in 2015 & 2017.  That is a fairly hilly one, but the Wiltshire one looks quite a bit flatter/faster. :)  I will just see how I am next week though as I don't want to feel that I am overdoing it.  A 10-mile PB would be nice but it is not the main goal at the moment.

    Yes, the foot is a bit odd as there is a bit of pain when I prod it just above the arch, but actually it tends to ease after the first mile or so of a run and then I don't really feel it during the run.  I do worry about stress fractures, not that I have ever had one.  I had a physio consultation on the phone about 12-18 months ago for the same issue and he got me to stand on my tip toes without holding on to anything, and if I didn't jump through the ceiling with pain to presume it wasn't a stress fracture :)  I have done that test and it is fine still, so hopefully it will remain manageable.  It was fine on the race and mainly fine all last week as well, but it is just on occasion it tends to feel a bit worse.  If I need to take a couple of days off though I will, but hopefully it will be okay.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - before the Trotters took over DD they used to organise a 10 mile race from Teign School in Kingsteignton, I never ran it but did marshall a couple of times.   

    My 10 mile PB is from when I did the week's Grand Prix of races in the IOM, the Southern 10 which is a circuit of roads used for the TT.   My PB was 2 days after the marathon and a 4 mile hill race the day before.   :'(
    All my others, Bere Alston, Wellington, Portland were hillier courses.

    Doesn't sound like a stress fracture then.   Some physios give you a hop test, if you can hop it's not a SF.
    Not from too tight shoes/laces?   

    When I did the 10 in 10 one of the ladies got a stress fracture and that was caused by her laces, you wouldn't think it possible.   That year London marathon issued red laces to all the runners (can't remember why, to support some cause I think) and she wanted to show her support but didn't want to replace her laces which were just right for her.   So she put the laces on top of the existing ones, not realising that they were putting too much pressure on the top of her foot, day 6 she DNF'd and off to hospital, came back wearing a surgical boot.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited February 2022
    Shades, it could be something to do with lacing.  A week or two back I was in some pain, and it had a feeling of lacing being too tight.  I am not aware that I am lacing them differently though, but I will keep it in mind.  Today's run was a good one though - I just checked and on the 9th mile of the 10, on the flat, pace was 8:39 at 138bpm (70% max).  12 planned for tomorrow, all being well.  I may wear a wider pair tomorrow to see how I get on with those.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that's a very satisfying MAF mile pace today  :)

    Re laces it should be possible to re-lace your shoes so that the sore spot has no laces actually touching.  I've had hot spots post race where my foot has swollen slightly during the run, yet I haven't felt any tightness at the time on the top of the foot..
    I don't have that problem now as I use elastic laces and they are kinder to the foot.   Some shoe laces have a lot more give in them now to make them more comfortable.
  • Shades, I suspect it may be down to the fact I finally kicked my chewing gum habit before Christmas (when I say habit, it really was more of a compulsive thing - I'd get through so much of it and it was making my crowns loose and causing me some stomach issues from time to time due to the sweeteners). Problem is, now I don't have gum to occupy my mouth, I want to eat instead. <sigh>

    Did 8 miles this morning. I meant to go to the gym later but just couldn't summon the mental energy to go out again (physically I am fine). Anyone have any tips for getting the strength work done when you're marathon training?

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I didn't realise you were a bit of a chewing gum addict.   But soon you should be over that wanting to eat/something to chew.
    I tend to drink a lot of coffee.

    I don't think strength work fits well with marathon training, certainly when it comes to the lower body stuff.   I find it does deplete the glycogen in my legs which is partly why I'm not doing long runs.

    Maybe if your legs are tired just do upper body workout.

    I did have a similar discussion with one of the gym instructors.   I have a few marathons lined up on consecutive weeks in the spring but can't see how I can do strength stuff through that time.   It was suggested to me to have some tabata workouts planned and do them instead of trying to do a full workout in the gym.  
  • Something like that might be a better option...I'll have a think.
  • Shades - That’s interesting re strength work during marathon training. Not sure I’m comfortable ever stopping my routine now given it’s largely injury prevention. 

    4 miles this evening. Was keen to do more but too busy. Nothing to report really. Minimal feeling in knee. Rest most probably tomorrow then will do 7 miles on Saturday and try 10 miles Sunday as first ‘long’ run. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    I noticed I managed to turn over in the night and it didn't wake me with the pain so a better sign,it's still very achy but must be improving.
    Managed 50mins on the bike tonight so another good sign.
    Shades-I see IOM is on the 14th,I presumed it would be the 7th as I was looking at maybe doing it.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I'm not suggesting you stop your strength routine, maybe ease up on the heavy stuff when at the peak of your marathon training and the last week before your race.

    In my circumstances I think I have 10 races in 13 weeks in the spring/early summer which means I won't be able to anything meaningful in the gym for most of that time, at best just tick over.


    Ian - IOM is usually 2nd Sunday in August.   I haven't booked up, not sure if I'll have enough budget, so might skip it this year.   It's an expensive trip for me, but easier for you to pop over on the ferry.

    9 miles this morning, torrential rain at the start of my run and my feet got wet quite quickly.   Rain stopped then and temperature dropped and sharp cold wind picked up, but I was expecting that so for the first 3 miles I was too hot and then after that was at the right temperature.   Had a good run but do have sore hamstrings, adductors and glutes from yesterday's gym session.   Over friendly golden retriever jumped on me, lovely dog.   Must be a trait with retrievers, has happened to me several times.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good news the back is easing, Ian.  I am considering squeezing another marathon in between Belfast and DD, but I haven't booked anything yet.  Windermere (never done) or Worcester (I had a shocker last year) are what I am considering, both on 22nd May, but I will decide a bit nearer the time. 3 weeks before DD is good though and will give me something to think about between my 100th and DD, as I’ve heard some can get a bit restless/despondent after their 100th!

    Nice run, Shades. 

    12 miles this morning, with the middle 10 on the flat but in blustery conditions. Quite pleased with HR and pace for those 10 miles but mildly frustrating about that 9:04, as it would have been nice if they were all under 9!  A bit of drift in the last 3 of those 10 miles but I’m quite pleased with it - it doesn’t seem all that long ago I was way over 9min/miles for 5 miles (HR for first 2 miles of this run isn’t accurate so ignore that).  This was on laps of Paignton Green so a bit dull, but foot was mainly okay. 

    Parkrun tomorrow (so 6 miles in total) and then the Half on Sunday.

    I’m an international star now, too ;) 

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - yes, you'll need a marathon or two to fill that gap.   Plym Trail is the weekend after your 💯.   Windermere would be good DD prep, it did Ian well last year.

    Very good stats from you today, considering you felt tired on Wednesday you bounce back quickly.

    Did you get to keep the modelling outfit?


    I originally emailed Newport a month ago, had an out of office reply straight away, then silence.   I decided to not bother chasing it up as I've already spent all/most of my budget on race travel having entered a few races recently.
    But they've now come back to me and looks like they will offer an alternative payment method.
    I did enter Newport 2018 through Active and my credit card was cancelled the week after due to 'suspected fraudulent activity'.   It was in the December when I entered Loch Ness my card was scammed, I hadn't linked the two incidents until today.   😠
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