Shades Marathon Training

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    A very easy 5-miles on the flat this morning. It felt great to be out there with the sun breaking through the haze, and a high tide with the waves crashing over the sea wall. Foot was mainly ok, but strangely worse on the walk back up the slope to my house. Glad I went out though as I really enjoyed it. HRM didn’t work (needs a new battery), but I just took it steady. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Cal - that's reassuring that you're not as crocked as you thought you might be.

    Big G - No, I didn't watch the 10,000m , I'll have a look later.

    That's a promising run from you today.

    Not so good for me, I did my favourite hilly 8 mile route and have come home with a sprained ankle.   We had heavy rain last night and on some sections of the road through the woods the rain has washed down some leaf debris into the road.  Amongst the leaves was a triangular shaped stone which I ran on and twisted my ankle, I nearly fell over and it was very painful.   I switched off my Garmin and walked the next mile which was undulating, then ankle was still sore but didn't feel too bad so I ran carefully for the next part which was flat.   But I had to walk as the uphills hurt and so did the downhills.   Fortunately it's a warm morning and apart from the pain it was a pleasant walk home.    Have a cold compress on it now, will strap it up after my bath but it's getting more painful without the support of my running shoe.   :'(
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about your near-fall, Shades!  Sounds painful :( 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Wow this Copenhagen app is the best I've ever used.   :)

    Ankle now strapped up.   :'(
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Just watched the two mile races last night, both great viewing.   Going to watch the 10,000m now
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Both 10,000m races really good viewing.

    Retiring to the sofa now need to elevate my foot, it's painful and I'm limping badly. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Hope the ankle isn't as bad as it seems.
    Agree with the copenhagen app,got a mate doing it and it's really good tracking the 2 of them.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    The app is great, with the pics, and also the live coverage straight from the app. Ben Felton (Youtuber) finished his first marathon there in 2:28 whilst Phillipa Bowden (another youtuber) did a 10k PB last night in 32:44 for 12th. She was the one that did something like 2:34 at Seville for her first marathon. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Ian5 said:
    Shades-Hope the ankle isn't as bad as it seems.

    I hope so too.  I probably won't know how bad it is until tomorrow morning.  It's swelling up, will have to re-strap it soon to allow for that.   But it doesn't feel the same as the last time I sprained an ankle so hoping it will recover more quickly too.   I can miss Worcester next weekend, even DD as I'm unlikely to make time limits, but I was hoping to at least run to 20 miles.   But I would be gutted if I miss Cork which is 3 weeks today.

    How are you now post Barcelona, are you running OK?
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Hey all. Great race (and weekend!) topped off with a 5 min PB at 3:16:02. Cramps really got to me so need to work on that ahead of Chicago but very pleased with the progress and the knee held up fine. Full report to come. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-Great running,well deserved PB
    Shades-I haven't ran since Barca,my achilles was playing up so I decided to take a week off,hoping to get out after work tonight.
    DD is looking very tough for me at the minute, doing that rota and I have too much going on and not enough people to be able to take the weekend off,unlikely to swap my place now so will keep it just in case I can sort work out.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - brilliant running and congratulations on a significant PB.   We enjoyed following you on the tracker, and with photos too.  You looked relieved but happy crossing the finish line.

    Enjoy the rest of your time there.

    Ian - sorry to hear things not going well right now.   But it may all come together in time for DD.  

    I'm hoping the same for myself.  😕
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Ian/Shades - Hope the achilles/ankle aren’t as bad they seem

    Didn’t realise there were pictures, I’d have made more of an effort to pretend to look happy 😬
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture said:
    Ian/Shades - Hope the achilles/ankle aren’t as bad they seem

    Didn’t realise there were pictures, I’d have made more of an effort to pretend to look happy 😬
    If you go to the tracker and click on the photos, they came available to see as the race progressed.  I assume you can download them for free.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done Rcouture. A PB is fantastic!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Excellent, Rcouture - congratulations! 

    Shades, that's rotten luck - hope you recover quickly. Having sprained and rolled my ankles loads, I fully sympathise.

    Wasn't sure I ought to run today (had a poor night...too hot so kept waking up, not to mention the aches and pains) but did anyway. I can ran with normal form but rather wish stuff would stop hurting. I did stretch before and after and had a good Theragun session too. Anyway, did 6 miles. 
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    OH has headed to grab her flight so sitting in a cafe people watching so figure I might as well get my report handed in 😀. Landed on Friday early enough to get to the expo which was surprisingly average which is in sharp contrast to anything else about this race. Quite small, no commemorative shirts beyond the finisher t-shirt (which is dull actually) and even the shoes on offer lacked latest models. Anyway I’m still on the lookout for my first proper expo!  Popped out for a nice Danish dinner then the next day had a lazy morning sitting in a cafe before a sightseeing boat trip. I’ve been here before so was less fussed but good for OH and kept me off my feet. Got crap sleep that night as surprisingly nervous then off to the race. Conditions seemed great initially as per weather forecasts but the announcer kept droning on about how it was going to be hot when in the sunshine and he was right. Aside from that, the race itself is fabulous. Great organisation, the app is excellent with OH able to see me on 3 different occasions thanks to it and although the course is loopy, it doesn’t feel it as they’ve avoided out and backs and they’ve kept it largely in the city centre so there are no excursions into quiet burbs or industrial centres.  Totally flat aside from a couple of short bridges (Strava telling me 141m of elevation which actually feels high), on wide streets and tons of support and music/bands around the course. They also plonk your name on your bib so nice to get personal encouragement! I really liked Florence as a race but this was better for me. As to my performance I went out at 3:10 pace as planned and kept the pacers (and as suggested here, a massive hoard of pacees!) about 200m in front of me for about 18-19 miles. I was feeling good, HR was in check and having not made a peep, I’d stopped being nervous about the knee. 20 miles came and the wheels started falling off a bit as expected but nothing major until 21-22 miles in when I got cramp twinges in my calves which I recognised from mile 25 in Florence. Every time I tried to accelerate back towards race pace of 7:15min/mi they barked and clearly told me they wouldn’t be having it if I stayed there. I stopped a couple of times to stretch but to no avail. It seemed ok at about 7:40-8 pace so I stayed there which is frustrating when you’ve still got the gas! A minor issue is that my HRM chest clip came off so in the end I handed it to OH. No big deal as I mainly use it in the first half of races as a check. I also passed a club mate I know who was struggling. He was going for sub 3 and had a seemingly perfect training block with 100 mile weeks, tempo, track, the lot. He had a big bonk though and ended up DNF-ing. I then passed another Chaser who was walking off the course. I don’t know why but that knocked some of my confidence, but no effect on my race in the end really. Anyway, I stuck to my new pace and crossed the line more relieved (as per my photo!) that the cramps had let me get to the line. I’m really happy with 3:16 on reflection. Aside from the obvious PB, I think I was hoping for something closer to 3:10 based on my 20 miler a month ago but with the cramps that was never happening so I’m glad that again like Florence I just ground it out and made the most out of a crap situation. I just need to figure these cramps out so am all ears for any tips. I had two sis electrolyte gels and every day I have a nuun electrolyte tablet in my water I sip on at work so I have been making the effort. All I can think of to start is maybe alternating a normal gel with an electrolyte one (ie more like 3-4 electrolyte gels). I’d love any other suggestions. I’m so happy that the ITB held up though, as it means I can hopefully build more mileage for Chicago which I’m now really looking forward to. I did think at one point in the race how heroic the Shades/Big Gs of this world are at triple digit marathon completions, these things do not mess around!!!


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done on the pb RCouture, well toughed out......fwiw in my opinion cramps are more related to being prepared to run the distance, and run the distance at the right pace......ive done a bit better by making my last few marathons a progressive effort running as easy as possible for as long as possible, but i still get hammy cramp twinges.......but fuelling and hydration are still important and required.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    TR - Thanks. Got it, so you mean that it can just be a generic symptom of whether one has put in the mileage/prep (like a glycogen-driven bonk) as opposed to something specific about fuelling/electrolytes etc…? 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-Great report,really well done on your race,we could end up pacing each other at Chicago by the looks of it.
    Cramps were the bane of my running for quite a while but haven't had them recently,I found pickle juice helped get rid of them pretty instantly,I carried it in a spirit shot bottle and necked it at the first sign,it does something to the brain signals I read,seemed to work for me as the cramp disappeared.
    What's the next race you have planned?
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    RC - for me yes. Ive done 24m long runs in training and still cramped on race day. Im doing a bit more of the p and d style progressive longer runs now with something like 10m easy, 11m at approx mp +10%. Which is a steady pace that makes you concentrate without being destructive.......on the day pacing matters loads too for me, keeping the effort low early on helps me get the nutrition in early whilst my stomach can digest it. Once you are working hard the stomach cant digest fuel........its a learning experience.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Ian - Thanks, I’ll be on the pickle juice asap! Can you get it on its own or via a jar of pickles? The only thing I’ve got until Chicago is the big half in September. I’ll eventually slot in a few shorter races but frankly right now I’m just motivated to slowly increase mileage for Chicago more than anything. I’m very happy with training structure but I need more of what I am doing. More MAF miles now that ITB is (fingers crossed) clear, and more consistent weekly tempo. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    I just bought a jar of gherkins and drained it,but I'm pretty certain most acidic vinegar would do the same.
    I'm exactly the same for Antwerp/Chicago,writing myself a plan and really hoping I can stick to it as if I can get the miles in I'll be really confident.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    TR/Ian / Thanks both, very helpful
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done again, Rcouture. Regarding the apps for spectators, a good one really helps. My OH saw me 6 times when I did Berlin, and she said the app was brilliant. It would tell her ‘get this tube to that station, and he’ll be there in x-mins’. Rotterdam app was also good she said, but the transport system not as good as Berlin’s. It’s hard work being a spectator!
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - Very good that. My OH has concurred. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Rcouture - great race report, thanks for that.   Sounds like Copenhagen is a good marathon and one for the wish list.   Congratulations again on the sizeable PB.   Hope the legs are OK today and you're able to get out for a little recovery run before your work meeting and travel home.

    Shame your fellow clubmates had a bad day especially the guy that had prepared so well for a sub 3.

    Re the cramps, there are endless theories and discussions about the causes and I suspect that there is not one single reason that can cause cramps but a multitude of reasons.   Some runners never get cramp and it does seem that the more marathons you do the less likely cramps will continue, I guess the body adapts to the years of training.  I have noticed that women are less likely to cramp, whether that's because women tend to be more flexible I don't know.  Flat courses also seem to encourage cramps as there's no change in cadence so 20+ miles of equal cadence/stride.   Dehydration too seems to contribute to cramps.

    Maybe 2 electrolyte gels weren't enough and you could have done with another especially as it was warm on the day.  There's no need to drink Nuun on the days leading up to your marathon, you could have one the day before your race but no need for more than that. Your body can't store electrolytes as it can glycogen, your body should naturally adjust the electrolyte balance every day from your food and drink, any excess your body will excrete.


    Cal - I did think yesterday that my ankle didn't feel the same as before when I'd sprained my ankle, I too have rolled on ankles in the past.  The worst time I couldn't run a marathon for 8 weeks.

    It's definitely different, the swelling that came up yesterday afternoon has more or less gone and the expected bruising hasn't happened, just a couple of small areas.   Seems the damage is towards my midfoot and not the ankle joints, deep inside the foot, I can prod the foot and ankles with no pain but can't rotate the foot or walk without pain but I can stand pain free.   I'm hoping that as it's not a sprained ankle I might be on for a faster recovery.   :/

    Of to have a look at Dr Google 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I used to suffer from really bad cramp, but in the hamstrings.  Fingers crossed, but I don’t tend to get it much any more. I too thought it mainly reduced as I got more experienced at the marathon distance, and I think I have improved how I hydrate generally over the years. 

    Shades, let’s hope that your ankle has a quicker recovery this time around.


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