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The Pantman Resurrection Thread
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I can see that people are going to feel differently about a thread like this, but if you don't particularly approve, why not just keep it to yourself? This forum is a place people go to for support, and generally they get it. I can't see the point in making a posting as negative as the one that started this particular debate, and wonder what motivated someone to write and post it.
A lot of us have had the pleasure of meeting Panto, and it's good to know things are going well for him.
Just come across this thread, been wondering if you were still around.
Good to hear that the weight loss is going well again. Which marathon are you targeting? fat buddha mentioned that you're aiming for a 2:20 marathon - is that right??? What sort of training are you planning on doing to get you into that sort of shape?
Although I very much doubt there's any chance of getting into that sort of condition myself, I am interested in running the fastest marathon that I possibly can. As we are running roughly the same sort of race times at this point, I'm very curious as to how you're planning on getting from a 57:30 10M to sub-50 min, which is roughly what's required in order to have a realistic chance at a 2:20 marathon.
Are you still in touch with Hadd? Would you mind forwarding his email contact details to me? I've a couple of points of clarification regarding his base training thread which are probably most straight-forwardly addressed via a one-on-one.
many thanks
marmite
At the end of the day pants is pants. WHO the hec are we to judge.
We are all different and we may or may not relate to what he has been posting.
But he has not been judgemental of others - has he?
So why should we stand in judgement of him?
When approached with a query he generally resonds with an answer as to his own experience.
Take it or leave it. It may work for some, it may not for others.
And of course there could be area's of his training/life that he chooses not to visit.
So what?
Pants - I'm not a follower, but follow you're instincts and always remember - no-one is perfect and it's refreshing to see someone posts warts and all, so good on you!
Scoobs
TwoTon - Youre not alone with the diet issues. I know an awful lot of runners (me included) who put on a fair chunk of weight when they are not running.
Sounds like another achillies tendonitis suffffferrrerr.
Tom says
“its very hard to see where the need for support stops and self promotion begins”
JB2 says
“I guess this thread is part of your attention-seeking compulsion whereby you announce to the world that (with, frankly, little evidence to support it) you're going to make a big splash with your marathon debut. Come off it, mate, you're not Evans Rutto!”
Soac
“It sudenly struck me that the introduction of strife changed the thread into a reality show rather than a support vehicle, and that would be a shame.”
[…… Pantman stomps off …]
“in the midst of a very hectic life I have enjoyed the interaction with others on this thread, but don't need this crap quite frankly.”
The audience clamours …
“Please don't stop posting Pants….Keep it going Pants it's compulsive reading for some of us”
Will the Pantman return? Who knows?
Soap opera at its best!
RB, soap opera indeed, but it does raise what I think is an important and fundamental issue about posting on public forums.
I'm sure no one would disagree that public forums should have a code of conduct that controls the content and the style of posting of its participators. For the more extreme forms of behavior and content one has recourse to the moderator. However the etiquette that determines what is or is not generally acceptable simply evolves out of the general standards of behaviour of forum participants. Because there are so many people participating, there will inevitable be some variability and subjectivity as to what is or is not acceptable.
So for example, I personally found JG2s contribution challenging but acceptable. On the other hand I found PMs response disappointing as it made no attempt to address the issues raised. A very subjective response, which probably says more about me, than the poster's contributions to which I am responding.
So providing an opinion is expressed respectfully and well argued it should be acceptable, even if people disagree with its content. Forums aren't just about support, they are about exchange of views, discussion, dissention, arguement and the quest for truth. This thread just doesn't seem to do that. To my mind not only is it too cosy by half, its also at times borders on the sychophantic.
I did think about starting another thread called "The Pantman Redirection Thread", so that all those people who had views that would disturb the equilibrium of this thread, could post elsewhere. Then I realised what that would mean - we'd have a new thread consisting of a group of people, all agreed in their anti PM sentiments. Unfortunately we'd then have a nice cosy thread consisting of people who were united in there disagreement of the sentiments being posted on this thread.
Now, that's what I call ironic......
"I am interested in running the fastest marathon that I possibly can. As we are running roughly the same sort of race times at this point, I'm very curious as to how you're planning on getting from a 57:30 10M to sub-50 min, which is roughly what's required in order to have a realistic chance at a 2:20 marathon".
A very interesting question, which has been asked before. I await the answer with interest.
A thoughtful and considered response to my somewhat tongue in cheek jocularity.
I think I share some of your misgivings about where the boundary between “etiquette” and sycophancy lies.
I thought that JG2's postings were blunt (yes, maybe even harsh) but honest. Despite various protestations of “character assassination”, “judgemental”, “negative”, I also got the impression they were largely intended to be constructive, even if in a “tough love” kind of way. It’s a shame I think that this then led to a polarisation of views where people are portrayed as “for” or “against”, with the people viewed as being in the latter camp being “shown the door” in quite a forceful way.
Cycled like mad to maintain fitness. Coming back now, building up slowly, but tendon still flaring up off and on. Just trying to manage it now. Most frustrating and an absoluted nightmare to shift. Done and doing all the usual stuff. Gone down every avenue I can think of and researched to the hilt. At the end of the day my achilles tendon does not like the roads, but it's also decided it does not like off road either due to all the twisting. So I'm advising tendon that it will like the roads but in small portions and tendon is mis-behaving a little but not being an unbearable pain in the wotsits for the moment!
So I speak to a like minded soul?
Hijack over!
:0)
Incidently there is someone posting on this thread who has achieved that standard. (Not me, not PM).
I was one of the guys who 'questioned' Pantman's reasoning when stating a sub 50 min 10 mile time last year at Folkestone. I believed personally there was no evidence that this time was possible regardless of the fact of running 150 - 160 miles a week. As someone who has run 55 mins for 10 mile with a 4:40 best for a mile, the thought of running 10 miles at that speed is frightening and can not be achieved by simply plodding out the miles - there needs to be some speed in the legs.
Lets get to the positives here - Pantman has not stated that he is going to run a 2:20 marathon since the thread started - instead he is taking small steps. He is certainly capable of a sub 2:30 marathon - times have shown this. Pantman also offers advice to many people - whether we agree or disagree with this it certainly helps a lot of forumites. People do need to realise that this is only one viewpoint though - Pantman is held in very high regard justifiably by many forumites and I can see a lot of people running in racing flats getting injured in the next weeks just due to him posting what he is running in at the moment ( My opinion!)
In a public forum, one will have to expect praise/ support / criticism - without this no one will improve - an example being one runner on another forum who is stating that he is going to run 33 minutes for 10k when doing 5 X 1k reps in 3:15. Without support and advice this is not going to happen - should we state this or keep quiet - with current reactions on the forum, I prefer the latter.
However with respect to PM and forum etiquette, I shall refrain from comment until PM joins the discussion.
Tom - Are you aware that Abingdon is to late for GFA?
All I can say/comment is that respect to Pants to put the miles in and shows some dedication for a few weeks. If this approach is doing him any good or not, who knows?
Possibly using the RW site for approx. 4 years and Pantman was on and off, with similar targets in the past. Dream a big dream, why not, everybody approaches target definition a bit different. It's a forum don't believe everything what people post and don't take everything too seriously.
One thing I want to mention though. Running 2:20h marathon or sub 50 10m is very serious business and despite ability one should have respect of such performances and don't rate them as low haning fruits, easy stuff to achieve. I think Sven27 from the forum ran very close to 50 min in the 10m and shows potential for a good marathon. Few friends of mine established elite runners for many years ran sub 2:20 marathon and sub 50 mins, but all of them dedicate their life towards running. This is not something you can produce within 10 weeks of high mileage, requires 10 years of development, talent and luck to stay injury free.
In previous postings on this thread I've critised it's insularity and cosiness. To be fair, this seems to be an epidemic that's breaking out all over the forum. I find it hard to recall the last really interesting thread that really challenged my thinking on any running related issue. When I started posting, what I was looking for was knowledge, advice and technical assistance. What I don't and have never wanted is people telling me that my disappointing performance can be rationalised away, and taking account of everything, it was actually quite fabulous. I'm intelligent and experienced enough to see my performances for what they are. What I'm looking for is an equally critical third party opinion and some sensible advise on where I'm going wrong.
It seems to me that most of the people who were able to give me that input are no longer posting regularly, perhaps they have come to the same conclusion as myself.
What this all boils down to is farewell crital analysis and welcome hugfest
Completely agree with your comments - perhaps there is some cold comfort from posting on the site that you know you will get the 'positive vibes from some forumites'. To be fair, my family would tell me the truth - 'That wasn't very good w$as it!'There again , perhaps thats the 80 mile a week annoying the mrs!
but
I would say forum support has been very useful in a great many instances-if not life saving
Soory to be off topic
I lurk here out of interest
1. Try and get a "lazy" GFA standard of 3:15, by running an earlier (eg Nottingham) as slow as I can get away with. My running is more or less the same standard as yourself, so you can assess how realistic that plan is.
2. Forget about FLM 2007, and use the hopeful Abingdon GFA for FLM 2008
3. Try and get a Champion standard time of 2:45 at Abingdon (hysterical laughter)
4. Buy a womble suit and run for charity (laughter, but slightly less hysterical than above)
Realistically, I'm not desperate to run FLM until 2009, when I'll be into a new Vet category.
No offence mate, but why would a 2:45 be a non starter - I know you have had injuries but you never know? Being a Womble could bring you in 4:30 - you would beat my last London by 18 mins!
have you decided what you are doing then
"No offence mate, but why would a 2:45 be a non starter - I know you have had injuries but you never know?"
Tom:
" The gist of my arguement was that whilst considered ambition is commendable, an unrealistic assessment of one's ability can only lead to frustration, disappointment and disillusionment".
Got to practice what I preach.
I think we should use a mixture of past / present tense in your quote here ... an unrealistic assessment of one's ability at present compared to the past... Respect! Seen it, Done it... Maybe again???
Maybe we should start a Tom Resurrection Thread?
Why don't you start a thread for runners who have been there done that but still want to run and do the best they can even if it is only a season's best. I think we all post to get some positive support especially if you have been running for many years - motivation and personal worsts just don't do it for you do they! But I'd still rather be an also ran than someone who doesn't run at all.
I hope Pantman does get it together. I do know of a guy - Jeff Julian who ran the 150 mile weeks and he was a great runner but he never had a weight problem and like most runners if you are doing any sort of decent mileage you want it - you eat it!
I haven't re-read this to see if this sounds pc - I know everything I write is pretty basic but always heart felt.
www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=5225&page=1&c=134
Hope that is right.