Marathon on 3 runs per week.

13468928

Comments

  • Luc - the thing is, you ran that speed in training and on your own, not even in a race.

    But I think I'll leave it to those more qualified than me to advize you ... :-)
  • Snapstinget
    No worries from me. We just want to help runners. As runners ourselves, we know how runners often tend to think. And generally as competitive people, we can let our goals get in the way of what our bodies can deliver.

    We want to help runners push their training and goals to the edge of what is realistic without slipping over to the unrealistic side.

    Finally, even if you have NOT run a 10K, there are plenty of prediction formulas available. For the runners that we work with that have not run a 10K, we either ask them to run a local 5K or do a 2 miler on the track. We then use those performance times to predict a 10K time and pace.

    I hope this helps somewhat.

    FIRST to the Finish
    Scott Murr
  • I've been following this with a great deal of interest - I had a disappointing first marathon last year, and I think one of the problems was that I was overtired for my tempo runs and long runs (funnily enough I didn't seem to have a problem on the whole with intervals).I'm also quite a heavy runner so injury is always a potential concern.

    I think for me cutting mid-week "junk" mileage could be a good move, especially as I've been able to build a good base (I'm just back from a month of warm and hilly slow high-milage in New Zealand). In the summer I focus more on road cycling than running, so it would also be very good to be able to ride as part of my cross-training. I'm planning to follow the web "first to the finish" program, with modifications for the odd race etc.

    In the past I've had the impression that cycling doesn't seem to do my running any favours (strangely the converse doesn't seem to apply - I think running definitely helps me on the bike) so that's something to be careful about and I'd be interested in other people's thoughts about this.

    On a more practical level - how prescriptive do you think one should be about the interval sessions? I'm planning just to join with club speedwork sessions and try to make sure I'm running at an appropriate pace for the intervals, but not worry too much about the structure of any particular session. Is that reasonable or should I be more rigid about that?

  • Ran the 7 mile tempo on Thursday at an average of 6:53/mile which was slightly faster than the spreadsheet said I should do it (based on a 42 min 10K) in, but seeing as I'm trying this schedule in training for a half marathon I thought it would be OK. It felt a really good run, I knew I'd done it at the end but today I feel fine - it's hard to stop yourself running on the 'off days'

    My cross training consists of swimming at the moment but I may try and introduce some cycling as well.

    I'm doing the training with a mate whose training for a sprint triathalon and he says it's improved his running and general fitness already. Funny enough I think my 10K time will come down below 42min because of this plan - I'm really enjoying it.
  • Hi Snaps - no didn't wake the baby!

    Scott - thanks for your input on this thread. It's certainly helpful having someone from FIRST contributing and giving us advice. Cheers

    Got my in-laws with us for the day today so I will be running my 17 miler tomorrow. Planned for 9:00 min miles (PMP +45 secs).

    Enjoy your long runs this weekend all.
  • an hour on the bike today. Lovely :)
  • Did the 13 miler at the gym on the treadie; the wind was vicious outside and it's three or four degrees below zero.

    I kept very much to the target pace of 8.48 to 8.58 but I must say it was one of the hardest runs I have done - on a par with the last half of my marathon on New Year's Eve. Reasons?
    Well, I am calorie counting at present, trying to lose weight. Yesterday I had c. 2500 which is enough if I don't do nay exercise and stay on the couch, but not to train on. But I had a good breakfast (porridge and fresh rolls) so I thought I'd be OK. Drank plenty as I ran.
  • Hats off Snaps for doing 13 miles on a treadie!!! I cant run for any longer than an hour - it bores me to tears!
  • I am fed up with the phrase 'junk mileage' that seems to be used increasingly. What on earth is 'junk mileage' anyway? Perhaps some training schedules are better than others for getting desired results, but surely any run is better than no run?

    The phrase itself 'junk mileage' is also somewhat elitist.

  • Snaps.. 13 miles on a treadie..? That is an endurance event of its own! Well done!

  • WWN and ICRAM - I know I am mad. But the thought of the alternative ...

    WWN - there is a thread on the junk mileage business. I am a bit ambivalent. Sometimes I'll go for a run at a pace too slow to benefit my running in general just because the sun is shining and I want to check out the lambing situation or to see whether the buzzard is still beligerent. Ther are also places I like to visit on my runs which don't fit into my training schedule. So I do these runs and afterwards pretend I didn't.
  • Did 17 this morning. Plan was 9:00 min miling and I came in at 8:55's. Tired towards the end and was glad to finish but not a major challenge. My Heart Rate was 70% working HR (Av 152) so that was encouraging. Owe a word of thanks to the Attendant at Ware station who let me use the loo at 9.5 miles. Could have been messy if he hadn't :-)

    Rest tomorrow and 3 x 1 mile intervals planned for Tuesday.
  • well - I did the 13 miler in 2:01 on a fairly undulating course. I was quite happy up to about 9 miles and then I started dropping behind the target pace. That is also when it started to be quite hilly. Still I recon I can do this under 2 hours given a bit more training. I am running the watford half in 2 weeks time, I undestand that is also quite undulating, I'll be happy if I can do that around this time. I have stopped beating myself up about not being faster, I guess this is only week 3 of the training :-)
  • ICRAM - where abouts are you? you mention Ware station, I live in Bishop's Stortford. You must be quite close?
  • Luc - I'm in Welwyn Garden City. This morning was the first time I've run out beyond Hertford. Enjoyed running along the Canal path for 6 miles. Nice and flat!
  • Sounds like you all did pretty well on the long runs this weekend. I did 13 as well which overall worked out bang on the lower end of the target time but there's a hidden story in there. All went fine until about the 11 miles when the wheels started to come off, my quads started to stiffen up quite a bit and I had to slow up. The last mile was 15s over the top of the target time which is not too bad I suppose. Looking forward to the rest tomorrow (no cross training either).

    I'd be interested to know what you all do for sustenance on a long run. I don't take any drinks or anything (not as convenient as the treadie Snaps)with me because I can't stand carrying anything. I try and fill up before I go but I wonder whether I should get a drinks bottle or something.
  • LS - you're dead right not to get too worried about your speed. Like you said it's only week 3 of this plan and if you haven't done much speed work before it'll take a while before the speed picks up.

    I see from the link that Scott gave, the Firman institute recommend a 1 min rest period between the 3 x 1mile speed intervals for Tuesday. :-O
  • i've followed this schedule for two weeks now - i've never actually followed a schedule for even a week before, just used them as a guide, so i'm well pleased already!

    Two weeks ahead of the rest of you so I've done the 10 x 400, 5m tempo and 14 mile run, all bang on pace except the long run. That averaged out at about 5-10 secs over target pace but I'm not too worried about that. And I'm still enjoying it too!

    I struggle to get 6/7 days running in usually esp if work gets busy, eg this week I left the house before 7am and didn't get back till after 11pm on a couple of ocassions so this is fitting in well as I can cross train at times I couldn't run. That's all turning out to be a bit of a bonus even though my swimming isn't improving much yet!

    This thread is helping me keepmotivated so thanks to you all.
  • Ebenezer - excellent! the more people on this thread that are willing to share their experiences of this schedule the better. 7 am - 11pm sounds like a very long day to me.
  • Hi all! Did the 7 mile tempo run on Friday (hilly) and then the 13 miler yesterday - really enjoyed it - cold, but sunny. Did it in 1hr 56m. In answer to someone's question about sustenance - my husband cycles next to me carrying an isotonic drink, which I sip every 15 minutes - which is great. I was thinking of getting a lightweight camelbak for when he can't make it, as I think the sips of drink really help. Just before I run I also scoff a flapjack which I like to think helps too! Really enjoying this plan. I'm using the strength training programme from Runners World, and also swimming, as my x-training - seems to be going well so far and my speed and ability has improved so much in just four weeks. Roll on . . . .
  • "Cheated" a bit yesterday because the weather was so beautiful. Blue sky, pristine snow, six or seven degrees below zero ... so instead of x-training I went for a "recovery" run with Mrs Snaps. Just 4 miles. Running in/on snow can be tough but we only encountered about half a mile of really nasty stuff. 10:48 minute miling :-) Kept HR right down. But I was remined once again how much the cold saps you: I was shattered after the run.
    Today I was going to do the mile reps off a minute's recovery (yikes!) but I'm going to x-train (rowing, bike, stairmaster, weights) instead and do the reps tomorrow.

    BTW: I see this week is an "easy" week. But that 3 mile tempo run: do we wsrm up first and cool down after? I.e. more like 6 miles?
  • I went slightly off-schedule yesterday to do the Folksworth 15. Extremely pleased with a pb by 9 minutes, but I'm not sure if I can attribute that to the plan, or lots of slow miles I did before I started it.

    WWN - with regard to my use of the term "junk milage" - it's certainly not intended to be elitist (I'm very definitely not at that end of the field) - and I agree that some running is likely to be better than nothing at all. Looking back at my run up to a disappointing marathon last year, I do wonder if my midweek miles served mainly to tire me out for the key sessions, without much real training benefit. That's why the idea of substituting *good* cross-training has such appeal. But I think that building up good base fitness before starting is likely to be important - perhaps the problem with more standard plans is that they tend to overlap base training with a more specific marathon build-up?
  • As a complete newbie to running I am going to have to ask some stupid questions. So I ran 21 K in 2:01, according to my rs200sd that is an average pace of 5.46 min/k which is about 1 sec per k over on a 45 min /10 k schedule right? What should my PMP be? I am just getting very confused about all the calculations and schedules :-)


  • cycloid - re junk miles - my experience exactly.

    Luc - you sound as if you are doing perfectly. Don't get hung up on the odd second; after all, the scheduled times/paces don't factor in the kind of terrain/route we do our training runs on, or the weather conditions, or how much beer we had the night before.

    To establish your planned marathon pace you should perhaps do a proper race in the next two to four weeks; how about a half marathon in mid to late Feb? Race it hard and calculate your PMP from that. Meanwhile, stick to what you are doing. And don't let the maths get to you :-)
  • Oh, yes. Today i x-trained.
    20 mins rowing, 20 bike, 18 step machine (18 because that just happens to be one of the programmes), plus 45 minutes of weights. Quite pleased because I benchpressed 80kg successfully for the first time since the autumn.
  • Thanks Snaps, I am running the Watford Half marathon in 2 weeks time. That will be my first ever running race. I am a bit worried about going too hard and end up really suffering at the end of the race. So I was going to try and set of quite steady and see what I have left over at the latter part of the race and then speed up. Just don't know how different a race is from training :-)
  • I have now finished week three of the plan. The seven mile tempo run last Friday was very hard and incredibly boring but it was do-able. However, yesterday's 13 miler, even with a bad throat and the beginning of a cold was a doddle. My target was 8:05/mile but I did 7:55/mile and finished really strongly. Maybe there is something to this plan.
    The aim seems to be to make us work so hard in the week that the long run seems like a little bit of relaxation.
    I have tried to beat 3hrs 30mins for a marathon thirteen times in two years. I actually feel that if I can stick to this schedule I might have a real chance of success.
    I really find it encouraging to see how people are getting on. Good luck everyone for this week.
  • Ive just done the 5X1200m and was aiming for 4:25. I must admit I have struggled to hit the target pace for the intervals, falling away for the last one or two reps quite badly. Anyway I managed todays in 4:28.5, 4:29.9, 4:28.9, 4:29.6 & 4:28.1 so I am more than happy even though I not quite there yet.
    I'm like ebenezer as I have never followed a schedule before but this one seems really enjoyable.
    I have a question for everyone though not really related to the FIRST schedule but here goes anyway - do warm up miles and recovery jogs count towards your total weekly mileage. For the first time ever I am also trying to keep a log and I am not sure. Advice please.
  • Luc - I bet you'll surprise yourself at Watford. My first race was also a half. The scariest thing was the sound of all those feet; it really knocked me sideways :-)

    1) You'll find you can run quite a lot faster than in training and still feel comfortable
    2) You've done a few long runs so you'll be strong come the last 5 or 6 k
    3) Remember to time yourself so you don't have to wait for the official results :-)

    finbaar - nice one!
  • Thanks Snaps. Your advice to Luc is spot on. One thing I would add is that if you find yourself getting carried away over the first mile don't panic and think you've blown it just relax and slow down a bit. It's also nice to find someone who appears to be running at your goal pace and either join them if they willing or follow them for a bit until you get a good rythymn going. But just enjoy the experience and I bet you are suprised at a)how fast you run in a race compared to in training and b)how sore your legs are the next day.
Sign In or Register to comment.