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Over 60s training.
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Ceal - I must email Chouette. If you speak or email send her my love.
Sharkie - When does track racing season start ?
ceal,
Great pic, all those twists and turns must have made it difficult to maintain pace, so even a bigger well done on your race.
Did my tempo
2009-03-30 6-305TCX Home12.6k, 4c, rain, wind, Tempo 10k at half mara, Intervals
RUN SUMMARY
Avg Pace = 4 mins 38.559 secs
Fastest Lap Pace = Lap 9 - 4 mins 35.
Slowest Lap Pace = Lap 3 - 4 mins 41.
Total Selected Time = 46 mins 25.590 secs
Total Selected Distance = 10.00 kms
Selected laps Average %WHR = 82.6
LAP DETAIL
Lap02 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:37
Lap02 Pace = 04:37 per km, 07:27 per ml
Lap02 Avg HR = 145, %WHR = 69, Max HR = 152, Max %WHR = 74
Lap03 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:41
Lap03 Pace = 04:41 per km, 07:33 per ml
Lap03 Avg HR = 153, %WHR = 75, Max HR = 157, Max %WHR = 77
Lap04 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:39
Lap04 Pace = 04:39 per km, 07:30 per ml
Lap04 Avg HR = 159, %WHR = 79, Max HR = 170, Max %WHR = 86
Lap05 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:38
Lap05 Pace = 04:38 per km, 07:27 per ml
Lap05 Avg HR = 168, %WHR = 85, Max HR = 171, Max %WHR = 87
Lap06 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:39
Lap06 Pace = 04:39 per km, 07:29 per ml
Lap06 Avg HR = 169, %WHR = 85, Max HR = 174, Max %WHR = 89
Lap07 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:36
Lap07 Pace = 04:36 per km, 07:25 per ml
Lap07 Avg HR = 170, %WHR = 86, Max HR = 174, Max %WHR = 89
Lap08 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:40
Lap08 Pace = 04:40 per km, 07:31 per ml
Lap08 Avg HR = 170, %WHR = 86, Max HR = 174, Max %WHR = 89
Lap09 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:35
Lap09 Pace = 04:35 per km, 07:23 per ml
Lap09 Avg HR = 167, %WHR = 84, Max HR = 171, Max %WHR = 87
Lap10 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:37
Lap10 Pace = 04:37 per km, 07:27 per ml
Lap10 Avg HR = 170, %WHR = 86, Max HR = 172, Max %WHR = 87
Lap11 Distance = 01.00 km/00.62 ml, Duration = 04:38
Lap11 Pace = 04:38 per km, 07:28 per ml
Lap11 Avg HR = 170, %WHR = 86, Max HR = 173, Max %WHR = 88
I dropped the pace a little over the last one 2 secs per km with a corresponding drop in avg WHR from 84 to 82%. The max stayed under 90 just. It felt easier but I had trouble keep the pace steady as the wind was strong and it was raining. My body must be getting use to them as the last km felt much better than last time.
Mick
Your overall HR is lower than your last tempo run over the same distance. But I seem to remember you could still have been a little jet-lagged when you ran the last one , last week. Very very steady pace. Have you got a 10k planned after your half mara? If not you should have! A great tempo run.
Hi folks,
First, thanks all of you for the encouraging words. However to be right about my running I do definitely feel I have peaked. Now that I have 70 years on the clock I realise I can try to keep the status quo for as long as possible
Not been as nice a day as yesterday here, unlike yesterday when we enjoyed a brisk 4 mile walk in continuous sunshine at Chatsworth,Derbys. That did help me to recover a bit from the race.
Anyhow still ideal for doing a recovery run around the lakes, this time in reverse fashion.
10.10, 9.57, 9.45, 10.49(with big hill), 10.09 followed by a relaxing mile plus walk.
Results have come through. The finish time was same as I saw on the clock when finishing....57m.28s. Position 337/389. 3rd out of 4 in Over 65s. 1st o/65 was 44m.32s !!
Now I have to prepare myself for the next 10k this Sunday,5th Apr. Not sure what will be done before then but I shall ensure Saturday is either extremely easy or a nrd.
Tapering, some sections of the article in this months Running Fitness.
Peaking Guide
The longer the event the longer the tapering period. A marathon taper could be 2--3 weeks. 10k taper, 7--10 days. 1500 m's, 4--7 days.
Aim to reduce overall mileage by between 30 and 50% of previous totals. It's ok to maintain your usual running intensity (speed), although this too should be cut back a few days before the big race to between 60 and 70% of MHR. The occasional faster than race pace burst is ok during a taper, as long as you allow yourself a complete recovery. Extended and highly anaerobic workouts and racing are obviously counterproductive during the tapering phase.
There is evidence given that show that runners and swimmers who reduce they training by about 60% for 15-21 days experience no losses in VO2 max or endurance performance. Swimmers demonstrate increases in arm strength and power ranging from 17.7% to 24.6%. Lactate levels are also lower after tapering at any given workload.
Several studies have found that a tapering period to substantially increase muscular strength, probably caused by a reduction in the shortening velocity of the fast twitch muscle fibres. Translated this means that the "power muscles" contract quicker after rest. This may be a very important aspect of peaking and one that is undervalued by current coaches and runners.
Are there benefits to runners who run 20 miles a week tapering an event.
Probably not- a further reduction in training for lower mileage will lead to a decline in cardio respiratory fitness.
there is obviously a lot more in the article, but the above are the highlights.
Thanks ceal, despite the weather it did feel good. I have another half in May and then I will be looking for 5 or 10s however the heat of summer will have arrived so it could be tough. I have 2 halves planned for the Autumn and a 5k and a 10k. The way I feel right now I am confident I could break 45 for the 10k. I could have done it today if that had been the goal.
Today when I hit a hill or turned into the wind I had no trouble picking up the pace to recover my overall pace for the lap. My speed sessions seemed to have given me a pace range which did not seem to exist before. It feels much easier now to pick up the pace for a short while.
My confidence level has grown as a result so now I am considering lower my expected time for my half. I think sub 1:39 is doable maybe even 1:38.
Mick
Impey,
3rd is 3rd well done.
ceal,
I am not sure about such long tapers. I think that research may well be valid for someone who is running 120 miles a week but 50 miles and under I am a long way from being convinced. I have found from my own experience that if I take too much time off it negatively impacts my race. I just don't feel smooth.
Interesting article though but I don't see me dropping my mileage by that much.
Mick
It is 6k of sub 5k running so I tend to agree with you. I have never done that number before. I am bound to lose count anyway but I will listen to my legs and quit if it starts to feel too much.
MickC
No problems with doing 15 x 400 at faster than 5k pace. In feb I did 12 x 400 at 3k pace. If I can you can too.
JJ
good news re the dentist.
Impey I forgot to comment on your placing in the race, it was a good one. Well done. Agree with JJ, don't look too much as age being a barrier.
Mick/Ceal
I too beieve that you can taper too much, didn't used to but as you learn new things you change your opinion about things though that England Athletics training day i went to a few years back suggested a 6 week taper for the marathon a lot of people couldn't understand it i still can't
Mick i think you are a fan of Tinman, i think i remember him writing about tapers and that i think he was of the same viewpoint - but don't quote me
I went out for another run this evening just 3½ miles at around 10 minute mile pace
ceal,
Now I have to do them because how will I be able to explain that this English lady pensioner can do them and I can't.
Pammie,
Yes I have quoted a number of articles of his. A 6 week taper is way out there and does not make any sense.
Mick
My statement about the 400's should have had an exclamation mark after it. But I am sure you will have no problems doing them at all.
Evening all
I have just read through a cuple of pages and don't remember any of it apart from that ceal asked if I have a special cupboard for my shoes.
Well, I suppose i do.
But it isn't big enough.
Or should that be ...........
Yes, I do love my job but could cheerfully murder one of my colleagues at times.
Good night.
"Hey ho, hey ho, it's off to work I go............................."
Please could you update my half mara time to 2:21:15?
Thanks.
Updated
Do you have any targets
K2 - Is it always the same one or do you work round them all in turn?
al
Ceal/JJ,
OK. I shall retract my statement re the age barrier and re-think by saying " I can do even better"
Fully appreciate all you say. I sure don't want to settle for plateauing
Regarding this tapering malarkey. How does one taper when there are so many races bunched up together. Like in my case, a 10k (again) this Sunday, a 5 miler on Wednesday and another 5 mile a week on from that. I guess taper has to be forgotten about in this sort of situation.
Whatever, it is not that crucial that I attempt pbs this year(as mentioned some time ago). Times made this year will be the re-set pbs to work on NEXT year as far as our club GP goes, god willing.
Thats why I requested MickC not to include me in the PB target charts for this year.
Good morning!
Mick
Thanks. Please could you use new Half time as REF and make my targets whatever the new predicted times are? Thanks.
aws
Not sure if you mean shoes, cupboards or colleagues. No, no and usually (if not always!).
Impey
You could try resetting your targets as I've done. The ones I set last year won't happen for a while and would be much too discouraging if I left them. My Half time gives me a sub-5 marathon (after using the Mcmillan calculator). It gives me a fairly soft 10k time of 63 minutes so I may well be asking for an adjustment.
Mick
Boo hooo hoo hoo hoo hoo!
Wah, cry, stamps spiked foot etc.
What has happened to my two precious 78.7%s? They were there a while ago. I haven't got younger - more's the pity.
!00m 16.4 seconds and 50m 9.3 seconds, both 78.7%
WAH!
Thanks K, I am enlightened.
BTW Good morning all
PTP2 Day 44
6.18M; 1:17:05; 12:28/M; hr141 m158; 2M warmup, 2x1Mfast with 3min active recovery, cooldown to finish.
2.00M 25:48 (12:54/M) hr138 m143 a bit slow but OK on HR
1.00M 11:43 hr153 m158
0.23M 3:00 (13:05/M) hr145 m152 recovery
1:00M 11:42 hr152 m157
1.95M 24:51 (12:44/M) hr133 m154 HR normal except for max
I DID NOT like that, but I never did like nasty medicine. My Dad used to say it had to taste nasty or you wouldn't know it was doing you good. Eating dirt had the same effect.
TS - you asked if I felt fatigued doing yesterday's run but I didn't notice much apart from having stiff knees. However the fatigue seems to have struck today as during the warmup I found it really hard to avoid sinking in 13s, then in the faster miles I just about managed to get up to Garmin zone 4.3 but couldn't hold it there. Your notes reckon I should be doing 10:30/M in those bits but I hadn't a hope of getting near it.
Suddenly warmer today, 9ºC going out and the same coming back in.
Sharkie - Now, now, dinna fash thesen, and mind where you're stamping that spiked foot if you please. That's one heck of a totp you've got there
.
al
good morning
ooooooohhh little Ms Annie having a strop on the TOTP
!!
sparkles thrown off spikes with the force of her stamp......
aws
well I thought it would do you good to get out of the normal routine
The actual pace was less important than the fact hat you got intohigher Hr zones which you did nicely>
Your recovery pace was probably a bit quick as your HR did not drop much so the second interval was commendable for its pace.
I felt very tired this am - late night working and back to back quite big mileage days and the promise/threat of a long run this evening, to celebrate the lighter nights, from a pub almost precisely at the mid point of my hilly moorland run persuaded me to a do just a gentle hilly 5.2 miles in 45:15 and avHR134 (69%WHR) and a max of 148
1m 9:52 hr125 all uphill with a chat as well to an old friend - getting as bad as K2
2m 8:04 hr130
3m 8:16 hr136
4m 8:25 hr136
5m 8:41 hr141 Hipps Hill
that will do for now...................
Morning everyone. Another lovely day here - I'm making the most of it because it can't last!
So much has been posted since I was last on here so no time to respond to everything so I'll just answer ceal's question about what Margaret did on her first day's retirement.
We went to Durham, a special place for us and where she went to university. The weather was really nice (better than further south I think) and we had a great time. Durham is just a perfect little town, with the cathedral and castle perched up on the hill, almost surrounded by the wooded valley of the River Wear making a loop round it. Lots of lovely old bridges too. One of the best views of it is from the BHS cafe so that's where we started with a coffee and cake. After a look round the cathedral we had lunch by the river.
It was so nice outside that we decided to go to the university botanical gardens rather than the oriental museum as planned. There were full of glades of daffodils and one of the glasshouses had a jade vine in flower. I'd never come across one of those before but it has drooping spikes of jade- coloured (surprise) flowers. A most unusual shade for a flower and very beautiful. We rounded off the day by having tea and more cake on one of the picnic tables outside. Truly a day to remember.
I enjoyed my club run in the evening and we were able to do a new route for me now it's not dark. Quite demanding though and I was tired at the end. 7.3 miles in just over the hour.
sharkie wrote (see)
.just to prove that Sharkie does listen to me - occasionally
Yes you will improve with more practice and more importantly you will improve the quantum of your fast twitch muscles by training. After all that is what training is about - increasing muscle power.
You cannot change the relative proportions of fast twitch and slow twitch fibres in your body but you can increase the ability of those fibres to perform. Fast twitch ones are particularly fascinating in their response to training and this runs on to the debate about tapering following Ceal's article extracts.
A period of low itensity (tapering) after an intensive period of training will see super compensation in fast twitch muscle recovery ie they develop more power than would be expected.
Did I not circulate an article I came across on this issue?? It was based on swimming training in the main but it had relevance for running at all distances.
Hi Graham
sounds a very good day indeed for you both yesterday.
Durham cathedral is my all time favourite building not least because of its spectacular setting. I always tell foks who are travelling north by train for the first time to make sure they are on the right hand side of the train so that they do not miss the view as it comes into Durham.
Good run last evening and good pace. You will find the longer runs tiring as long as the gap between a "normal" run and say 7 miles reamins relatively large as it means you are pushing your aerobic threshold above lactate tolerance levels
I have a pair of mistle thrushes nesting in the garden. Relatively uncommon birds around here and they are taking great delight in harvesting a pile of dried moss rakings I had taken off a patch of lawn before re sowing it as nest material.
TS
I expect they are dropping the bits of the moss on your lawn again to make quite sure that the moss thrives again!!
Still racking up the mileage I see and again this pm.
YES you did indeed post the very informative tapering article that you have. I have it printed off and refer to it occasionally. I posted what I did for MickC who has a target race fairly soon and I know he is not in favour of bit tapering. Indeed, confirmed by his post here yesterday pm.
Before my race this last weekend, I dropped the mileage to 25 miles including the race, I did in fact commit a cardinal sin by running my reduced intensive speed workouts too fast, definitely using my fast twitch muscles. But it was good for my head. However, I have another 10k in 3 weeks (less now) and will not push my speed sessions as much as last week and see what happens. But of course the race course is different and the weather conditions will be different so one whatever the result one won't really know what produced what.
I do remember when my daughter was a National Age Group Swimmer that they tapered quite severely before the Nationals.
I think that we mostly all lack confidence in a good taper, thinking that we will lose form. If one has been training hard then this simply will not happen. But I have noticed that when one reduces the mileage what happens is that one becomes very aware of one's body and every ache and niggle, which when one trains nearly every day stays hidden.
Re the 6 week taper for a marathon, of course I have no experience of this. I would imagine that a 6 week taper would come off a much longer training programme than 12 weeks. I think there is a lot of evidence for a long taper for a marathon which comes from elite runners who pick up an injury before a marathon and are prevented from running training, they may well x-train in the Gym or the pool. But the main running muscles are being rested because of the injury. Some of these runners have come to the start line of the marathon, rested and healed and turn out a time that they certainly didn't expect, like winning the event and/or huge pb's.
Impey
No it is not possible to taper for several races close together. But it is a good idea to chose one of them and taper. Just have the day or two before as a norunday and then go for the race. Then clock up the miles at the begining of the next week. Well that is what I do.
Graham
Your day together sounded idyllic, helped by the weather. Lots of tea and cakes were consumed I see..they obviously set you up well for your Club Session in the evening.
Sorry Sharkie, when I transferred the file from one computer to another I must have picked up an old copy, hopefully all fixed now including the change to K2s predictions
ceal,TS,
I do taper but only modestly. I dropped my mileage for the week by about 25% and drop one of the speed sessions and make the other easy.
Graham,
Yes I do remember looking for it and and being thrilled to find it but it was a way off so couldn't see too much. We are thinking about a trip to the UK and maybe renting a small place somewhere and doing a bit of touring around, but we are also thinking about Bermuda and Portugal but you never know we may get to visit Durham.
A better day today her, warmer and supposedly sunny but not yet. I have a meeting in town today but will do a recovery run this afternoon when the sun should be out. I also get to ride my bonnie into town so it should be fun.
Mick