Over 60s training.



  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    That was 4.5k at faster than your 5k race pace, yes I am not surprised you are knackered.

    More snow and more treadmill, its only Jan and I have spent more time on the treadmill than outside. 6.4k done at 0.5 grad and 6.5 mph or 5:44 per k or 9:13 per mile or what ever. Had all the fans blowing still overheated and got dirty looks from the granmas that like to walk and chat on the treadmills. I think that they went to the front desk to complain but were brushed off and went to another part of the gym.

    Children here learn very quickly not to put their tongues on metal when it is -20c and not to go into the coniferous forest when it starts to thaw.
    I broke the second rule to my cost today. We had had a dump of snow and the temperature went up to +2c. I went into the trees to dump my Christmas tree and I could hear all the snow and ice falling off the trees but thought I could escape but no. Just as I was coming out of the tree line down it came right on target.
    No heavy ice so I was lucky but lots of snow down inside my shirt.


  • Ceal/Ray - thanks for enquiries re the injury. The roller is far less painful than when it's used on my Achilles which probably means that it's not doing much good! But I think there's progress: I can walk without noticing any discomfort and I even managed a 100 metres shuffle today - but felt it a bit.

    I'm not the most patient person in the world...........but I suspect if we were all psychometrically tested, I might not be the only one (Mick?!).

    BTW I've not heard 'Flipping Nora' for a few decades! I often think that there's quite a lot phrases and idioms that will die out with us lot. I mentioned to my young training partner that it was 'a bit parky' the other day - and he looked at me very blankly

  • good morning

    even if you are not the most patient of patients you do not want to risk anther tear in the hamstring by shuffling too soon. Walk yes, that will stretch and warm it up nicely but even a mild jog may aggravate the tear and increase the risk of scar tissue forming - and then the physio treatment to get rid of scar tissue will make the foam roller appear as nothingimage

    oh dear - I did have to laugh at you breaking Rule 2image
    Your winter weather appears to be very up and down this year instead of the normal consistent cold and snow you get?

    last time I saw the Shard I was on the train coming back from Croydon and it was being struck repeatedly by lightning - quite put me off going in it!!
    Slow and steady is the name of the game for me.........

    Another brilliantly clear morning here -  -7C but little white frost to be seen, just blue skies and strong, very low sun.
    I had a new chest strap for the HRM and it seemed to work ok so no excuse for new kit just now

    5.2 miles done in 50 min (9:35m/m) with avHR 133 (68% WHR) and and a max of 149 on that hill

    09:44  123  136 includes 1 min walk at start which depresses avHR
    09:07  133  141
    09:32  134  139
    09:22  134  140
    10:33  141  149 Hipps Hill

    It didn't feel like that sort of HR - much harder, but then I look at the pace and realise why it is relatively low!!!!
    A lot of aerobic conditioning needs to be done to get muscle strength back up to old levels, those mile times used to start with a 7, with maybe an 8 on the hillimage

  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭

    Morning All

             Mick-Think its a common theme that some people go to the gym to chat or look at a phone.Those temps are very cold,would take some getting used to.Good treadmill running while the conditions are bad.

    TS-As you say,once your aerobic base is built so to speak the quicker miles will return.

    Last nights run was 4.9 should have been 5miles but not to worry.About ten in the group and the three middle miles were to be run at tempo pace.so it went like this.

    mile1-8:45 mile2-7:35--mile3-7:30-mile4-7:21--mile0.9-8:14



  • I'm sure I'm not the only one but am on a post Xmas diet. (I can hear the yawns as this is read!)

    As I'm a more or less constant nibbler and devoid of any discipline whatsoever, this doesn't come easy. Cutting back on running will (counter-intuitively) help a bit as the more I run the much more I eat. And I only need to shift about 4 pounds anyway. So I'm re-visiting one that worked for me earlier in the year when I needed to rid myself of a little more poundage - self evidently it came back!

    I won't bore you even more with the details and it's not a commercial one but it works for me and can be summed up in a lean sort of way: skip breakfast. That's it. There is a science to it which of course can be contested and I think it now glories in the name '8/16' (eat only in an 8 hour window).  Even more dull - I've cut back on drink.

    Much against TS's good advice I tested the hamstrings: I got lucky and there is now no discomfort - but I'll take it easy.



  • good morning

    you did a 22min 5K pace in the middle - so your parkrun target should be a doddle!!
    Good going

    "you've cut back on drink??!!!"
    One can take things too far......................
    There  won't be any discomfort in the hamstring but that doesn't stop it bleeding a little along the tear each time rather than fully healing. Ah well...

    Talking of weight - I just happended to review my data in the Garmin. Last time I inputted stuff I was 188 lbs (13st 6lbs). I am currently 14st 11lb although coming down a bit. I may have to go onto the 0/24 diet!!
    Actually I believe that breakfast, literally in that sense of breaking fast is the most important meal of the day. I can happily skip lunch and even dinner sometimes but brekkie after a run is the ultimate refueling process.

    I read back last night on base training and wondered if I was running a bit too fast, despite the slow times, for my level of aerobic fitness, so decided to run only on HR this morning and that it was not to exceed 130 bpm. This proved harder than I thought because of the relatively hilly nature of my course

    Same as yesterday - 5.2 miles done in 53 min (10:16m/m) with avHR 128 (65% WHR) and and a max of 141 on that hill

    10:34   119  132  136 includes 1 min walk at start which depresses avHR
    09:19   129  136
    10:04   130  135
    09:52   129  133
    11:48   133  142 Hipps Hill

    So - 3 min longer than yesterday and I actually ran a bit under the target of 130 simply because, on the downhill bits, if I had run at 130 bpm I would have been close to 7m/m which would not have been aerobic at all!!!  Uphill on gradual slopes it was quite easy to adjust pace to suit but on Hipps Hill I absolutely refused to walk and so the HR climbed a bit.
    Interesting experiment and shows that my base aerobic level is still a long way off - so more slow miles for me!!

  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭

    John/TS-My weight is 12st which is to heavy as my height is 5'9 I still had to have a bacon Sarny about 9:15pm last night.Have to lose at least half a stone myself.

  • TS - I think the theory behind the diet is that is not just missing a meal but actually (deliberately) prolonging the fast. It makes me a bit grumpy around mid-morning!

    Ray - your height-to-weight ratio makes your times even more impressive.

    I was the fat, bullied kid in the class (and short, wore glasses, came from the council estate, a broken home and failed the 11+ - I answered to the name of 'lucky'!) so I think I've always had a bit of a hang up about weight..........amongst many other things!

     I'm 5'6" and 10st 2lbs.

  • WD60WD60 ✭✭✭

    Afternoon all

    Back in cold Britain from Sunny California.image. Time for some serious training as I have entered the New York half marathon.  This is the third time I have entered but I missed the other two cos of prostate problems in 2011 and Polymyalgia last year.

    I did a mile time trial while I was away hoping to go under 9 mins and was amazed and delighted to do the mile in 7.17 which was absolutely flying for me.

    I will smugly say that I am no heavier now than before Xmas with  running every morning pushing my wife around in the wheelchair, cycling in the pm and even an occasional swim.  However I do need to lose some weight to make the half marathon easier.


  • cealceal ✭✭✭

    Wow, you have been training hard, you must be thrilled with an 7 min mile trial. I wish you all the best on getting to the start line for the N. Y Half. Marathon. Once there you will do good.


    That doesn't sound an excessive weight for your height at all. I have read many articles about fasting and they were positive ones. If breakfast, for you, is the easier meal to miss then it's the way to go. Good news about your hamstring, but please don't go mad and run fast on it just yet!


    The Shard experience was an amazing one, especially viewing both in the day and again by night. However, it isn't a cheap experience. Managed to go to The Tower, 2 for the price of 1 by some web site or other and showing our train tickets! I usually always run by HR to suit whatever kind of training run I am doing. Although I very often ignore it for the last 4 mins/half mile or so.


    More fast stuff from you again. Really encouraging.

    I have done zilch today in the way of exercise. Feeling rather tired after our day out yesterday. 10.00 --- 20.30 out of the house. We were lucky that the trains were running because not many have been running recently, at all. We walked 7+ miles around the South Bank. But I do have to walk to Homebase very soon but it's not very far away!

    Tomorrow is the last of our jaunts because Stewart is back at work on Monday. We are taking our two elder grand daughters to see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Routine starts again very soon!
  • cealceal ✭✭✭
    I am in touch with Jan on FB (who used to work in Sweatshop, Bristol), she wishes you a very happy new year. She lives in France at the moment

    I see Maggie about once a year. She is fine, doesn't run but keeps fit and goes on lots of holidays!

    I have been on this thread about 16 years now!

    Angela Copson who I have spoken of many times who has broken many many world records in the Masters events in many different distances, 400 -- marathon, has been awarded. MBE which I think is amazing and good to hear. She sweeps up all my UK records and will take my 70 yr ones when she reaches 70 in April
  • John
    ay oop lad - when I were young I shared wellie boots with three other kids and we only ate bread n' dripping once a week.
    That's why I like running shoes and foodimage

    Statistically I am still the biggest unit at 6'1" and the aforementioned weight - and some Christmas cake still to eat!!
    I was the same weight in my 20's but it was distributed rather differently............

    bacon buttie - food of the godsimage

    welcome back from your exertions
    Excellent mile time whilst away - you just need another 12 to go with it!!
    Seriously it's the aerobic base that needs to be maximised for a HM. I was re - reading my Lore of Running last night just to remind myself on what was needed to be done in case there was an easier way!

    it's hard work on the mean streets of Londonimage. Very easy to walk a long way without really realising it. The views from the Shard should have been good if the weather was clear?
    Nice news about Angela.
    I also normally run by HR but it had been playing up and so I was running by time for a while until I finally splashed out on a new chest strap as I didn't know if I was back in the mix with running. I shall try and maintain 130 bpm downhill and see what sort of time I get!!  I might get close to WD60...

    I had an agonising call with my friend's wife today - the brain tumour is too large, aggressive and too centrally located to do anything with other than palliative care. We were all running together 2 weeks ago .............

  • cealceal ✭✭✭

    How very sad for your friend and his family. Truely awful for all of his friends too, one never knows what is around the corner.

    Live for the day, is the only way to go

    Oh dear, still Christmas cake to eat!! Enjoy!!

    The weather was amazing for the time of year. One could see very easily as far as Crystal Palace, but beyond that it was a bit hazy, I would imagine due to the very cold temperature.

    An attempt at a photo on here I fail at. Will send you one, not the best. Stewart has those!
  • TS:  aye, and you were lucky..............! (It doesn't sound as good coming from a southerner..............another of my multiple deprivations!)

    Ceal: you express the transfer of your records with typical graciousness And it rather backs up your proposition that nothing lasts for ever. Great to see veteran athletes recognised in this way............

    WD60: that's a VERY sharp mile; it would be great if you could roll this out as mile 12.1-13.1 of the HM. You've had a very physically active Xmas. (I remember Daley Thompson, I think, saying that he trained on Xmas Day whilst thinking of his competitors feasting!)

  • good morning

    "southerner" - you win in the deprivation stakesimage
    You are right about Daley Thompson. I also saw him run against some so called fast men at a (Fulham?) football club and after it was over he turned and said "that's what is called fast in athletics"

    Easy 3 miles this morning in 30 mins 126 avHR 136 max - just keeping the legs turning over - carpe diem!!

  • TS - Sad geezer that I am I also remember on Superstars that the rugby guys (league and union) would almost always beat the footballers in the sprints - although one Malcom MacDonald (who ended up running a pub just down the road from me) was a bit sharp!

  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭

    TS-Awful news about your friend.

    WD60-Excellent mile time.What's your goal time for the half?

    15x1minute hill efforts this morning,just 12miles tomorrow with those training for a Marathon.


  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭

    TS - very sad news about your friend. And so sudden.

    Ceal - I met one of my "children" at the foot of the shard a few years ago, with the intention of going up it, but when we found out how much it would cost just to go half-way we abandoned the idea.
    Please send Jan a virtual hug from me. We met at least twice in Bristol; I remember her well.

    2.13 miles this afternoon, doing my best to put into practice at least two of the pieces of advice given me by the gait analyst: aim for a 2" "lean", and push the ground away behind rather than stretching out in front. Took a lot of concentration, but The Knee did not complain at all!


  • good day

    that sounds like an encouraging run - pain wise. It takes a little effort to get new running characteristics ingrained but it is worthwhile.

    Had to smile cynically at the comments on the charges for the Shard. One of the planning "gains" trumpeted by the developers when trying to get planning permission were the viewing platforms that would be accessible to the public, not just the occupiers of the building. Of course they didn't mention that the costs would be prohibitive and thus self limiting.
    Looks like that proposed new pedestrian garden bridge over the Thames is going the same way

    hard hill effort - 15 reps!! It reminds me that I will have to do some of those in the future - a long way in the future!!

    I was a more avid Toon supporter way back when MacDonald played there. He divided opinion as he scored some great goals based upon his pace and powerful left foot but didn't work for the team. Like a lot of very fast players he couldn't do multiple efforts. He relied upon a striking partner to do the hard work, Tudor and then Gowling of whom the classic quote was made - "he took more stick than a seaside donkey" 

    Misty, mild morning here as I took my aerobic training to the next level and did 7.1 miles in 70 min (9:56m/m) with avHR 131 and a max of 146
    Some boring stats for those who like them

    10:18  120  134
    09:04  132  140
    09:46  132  139
    10:06  133  138
    09:57  132  139
    10:31  137  147
    09:50  131  135

    cunningly split Hipps Hill over 2 miles so it didn't look too bad!!
    Despite almost constant monitoring of the HRM I did slip up a beat or two but otherwise contained the effort quite well and felt quite comfortable

    "So you should, at that pace" would be the proper responseimage!!

  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭


    Sorry no posts all week work and sleeping in


    But 2.28 mile run walk today and it was lovely out


    Sorry TS about your friend


    Had wondered about JJ too

  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭

    Columba-All the best with your new running method.

    Pammie-Was a nice day keep it going.

    TS-To be honest the first thing I noticed was how stable your Heart rate was,which is good.

    The mornings run with the Marathon group ended up just over 13miles on a real hilly route.Surprisingly I felt quite good after those reps yesterday.Pace was 8.58.


  • good morning

    you chose a good day to get out

    13 hilly miles at a good pace sounds excellent. I hope you rewarded yourself with a bacon buttieimage
    I am trying to operate on HR alone, adjusting pace accordingly. It is surprising how even the slightest incline can send the HR up 10 bpm or more in a few strides.

    This morning was wet, windy and wild with the rain having a stinging quality to it as the drops were almost solid from cold air above the warmer stuff at ground level.
    In fact it rained so hard that my Garmin doesn't want to download so an absence of some data.
    5.2 miles done in 51:30 (9:54m/m) with an avHR of 130 which was good

    10:03  127
    09:14  129
    09:48  130
    09:47  131
    11:08  137 surrendered on Hipps HIll into the wind and the rain!!

    apart for the last mile it was ok and there is already some slight improvement apparent in aerobic conditioning despite the conditions today

  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭

    TS-No bacon buttie unfortunately as I had to rush of to my daughters for a huge roast dinner image.Started to rain here now and is miserable,they are forecasting snow really hope they are wrong.Another good run done in horrible conditions and pleasing HR.

  • Hello everyone. Nice to see a few returns to the thread. I wasn't here at the same time as Pussy. Good to see Diana posting and also Pammy. I hope you stick around. And of course a warm welcome back to ceal. 

    Ceal was asking about my last race. Well that was a 10k back in November when I did just over 45 minutes. That was supposed to be a spring-board but soon after I got a groin injury. After living with it for a while I eventually decided it wasn't going to get better without complete rest.

    So until this morning I hadn't run at all for exactly four weeks. Earlier today I very gingerly did 0.3 miles at a very slow jog, and I mean very slow. I'm sure we all know that feeling of trying out a recovering injury fo the first time and the dread of finding it still being there. Luckily it felt fine at that pace and distance so hopefully I can very carefully build on that over the next few weeks.

  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭

    Encouraged by Saturday's 2 miles I set out yesterday afternoon to do either 3 or 4 (hadn't decided which, in advance); but at 1.29 miles The Knee let out a shriek of pain. I stood still for a moment, then tried another couple of steps but oh no The Knee wasn't having any of it. So I slowly limped the 1.29 miles home again and spent the rest of the day on the sofa with the leg propped up. Less painful today, but I think I'll have to do what Graham is doing and not run at all for 4 weeks. 

  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭


    Columba image hope knee gets better have you a physio type friend to look at it


    Had to go to town earlier do a few bits but somehow managed a run walk

    Didn't want to but  made myself


    its done. Now to work tonight




  • Columba, oh no, what a shame. Rest does seem the only option but hopefully it won't be for as long as you think. Does it feel like the arthritis has caused the sudden pain? But I remember someone once mentioned something small possibly being loose in the knee and moving around, which would fit.  

    Running would be so simple if we didn't have to worry about injuries. We'd all be bounding around like gazelles.

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    It is good to see you back and at least attempting to run. 4 weeks is a long break but at our age it seems to be what we need to see a significant injury on its way to recovery. I always wonder what has caused an injury, what is it that I have done that created the problem, what should I have done to avoid it.

    Oh no, just what you didn't want. I can empathise as I have been through it the last 18 months. I also developed a Baker's cyst on the back of my wonky knee which took a while to go down.
    The biggest issue for me right now is still building up the strength in my right leg to match the left. It still is not 100% and it does make me more vulnerable to hurting it again but I am still progressing even if it is slowly.
    All the best with it but don't give up, just keep working at it, you will get there or at least to a place where you can still enjoy your running.

    Shocked at how much you now weigh in at, you a big boy for a runner in his 70s.
    If you could get your weight down to match Graham you could be setting new world records !
    I am 6' 1" and 13st and would like to shift 5lbs - 10lbs but I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon.

    I am still experimenting with my new Garmin 235. As a running watch it is still the best I have ever had but it does have a couple of negatives.
    The first being the contrast of the display is not big enough so I find it hard to read the small font even with the backlight on. The second issue is that despite the phone companion app allowing you to set your own stride length for running indoors, that is without gps, it doesn't appear to work as it still defaults to whatever you did on your gps run outdoors.
    As my stridelength changes on the treadmill it means all my indoors show short and slow compared with the treadmill display.
    I ran 4 miles on the treadmill today at an average speed of 6.4 mph and a 0.5% grad, which translates to 9:22 per mile. However the 235 indicated that I ran 3.7 miles at 10:00, which is a big error.
    Based on the research I have done it appears that others have seen this and it appears that you can use an external footpod as I did with my 405 and the manual adjustment works there.
    This would not be a problem if you were outdoors and lost gps synch and the 235 took over as your stride length would be similar and it would compute the right speed and distance even if it did not know where you were.
    Heart rate and cadence look very good and consistent. No spikes or dropouts. Auto pause and Lap vibration alert work fine. 
    There is a feature when connected with your phone that will give you an audible lap update. I may try this on the treadmill just for fun but I cannot see me carrying my phone around with my on my outdoor runs.



  • cealceal ✭✭✭

    I am so sorry to hear of your recent groin strain. It would appear that this is quite a common injury with male runners, although, I think that you are the first on this thread to have had one. Good luck with your progression back after your rest. How is it with walking, or should I say, how has it been when walking?


    How very disappointing for you. It could be that there is a little loose something in your knee that has been moving around and sometimes finds itself in the wrong part of your knee. Otherwise I was going to suggest that when you are trying to push from behind or whatever! That you think of pushing off with the tips of your toes. Of course this doesn't happen but the thought of it does help one to do the running action as has been suggested for you.


    You have been putting in some sterling training, you deserve a good roast! Keep it going, without injury!


    Well done. How many nights do you work a week? Do you see yourself ever being able to work days again?

    TS is on the previous page, I will have to look back after I gave posted this.


    Your attention to all your stats is remarkable. I do look at my stride info, but I don't change anything! I hope your weather allows you to get an outside run before too long. You have a lot of patience, I admire you for that.

    I have been out, both yesterday and today and done my usual walk/ run, with not a lot of running. Today was 2.5 miles in 30 mins, av pace 12.09 mm, av HR 133.

    Choir starts again tonight. I have received another mosaic commission, this time from an artist in Malaysia! I have just finished another small one to go outside here in our garden again,

    Re the Shard. Yes, very expensive. One goes to the top, not half way. All the way to where the glass is clear. No one goes beyond that, they monitor the number going in so it's not crowded. It is a polished, professional experience. I am very pleased I gave been. One can eat in one of the restaurants and see the view. One of the remarkable things to see were the trains coming into and leaving London Bridge station. They looked like snakes.

    Now going to look at the previous page to see what I have missed.
  • Columba
    That does sound like a classic case of a foreign body floating around the knee and popping up in painful places.  Hope it subsides soon

    good to hear you are trying out your injury recovery - I hope the elastic bands are fixedimage

    I have always been a big unit. Don't forget I was a speed merchant when younger and used to surprise opponents in games by just how hard I hit as my build disguised a lot of weight. It's just slipped a bit from chest and shoulders to my waistimage  
    However a figure starting with 13 would be better..............

    I have a similar problem with my 410 in reading the smaller displays. In sunlight its not too bad but in in dawn or dusk light it's a bit hit and miss even with the back light.
    Can you still input manual data to the software on the new Garmin? Is is still Garmin Connect?

    Easy 3 miles this morning in 30 mins with avHR 130. Running tonight as well so this is just a loosener 

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