Over 60s training.



  • My training to get ready for running training is going quite well so far - touching wood!

    Keeping the HR down to an average of 130 both promotes aerobic development and also minimises the risk of injury as the body is never really stressed.
    I am quite surprised I can run on so many consecutive days without cumulative fatigue but again the limitation I impose by way of avHR help in this and the rate of HR drift over a run is slowing and the average pace just edging up a bit

    It is, of course, a long way away from by old usual training routine but I content myself with a mental image as I run of the mitochondria in my muscles swelling and splitting and the blood vessels supplying them increasing in size.
    The reality may be  a bit different.....................

  • TS - ah, so now I know why you keep running the same course! I shared your mental image for a few seconds but I found it was making me feel a bit queasy. Might try to get out later today but the rain is pretty relentless. Oh to be a labrador puppy.

  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭

    Laughed at the panic buying of extra virgin olive oil and quinoa: I have both in my kitchen!

    Been swimming; and booked into tomorrow's spinning class.

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    Impressed by your running streak, this looks like the best you have put together for some time. I think this is the first time in a while I have seen you concentrate on building your base. You seem to enjoy the short faster more intense runs but there always seem to be a cost.
    I am following the same kind of building schedule as you but you are being more successful. My weekly mileage is being held back by the weather.
    I think we are both focused on the 30 mile a week number and getting our HR down.
    My aches and pains are not the limiting factor for me. I am fighting treadmill running. I can handle 5k on the treadmill but any more becomes tough. My motivation gets a bit thin after 30 mins.

    Today's run was outside as the weather is much warmer -2c but it was very windy so my pace and HR were all over the place. 5 miles done at around a 10 min per mile pace and average WHR % around 75 so ok but still more building to do. 3 years ago I was running a minute per mile faster for the same effort.

    Tommorrow's forecast is good only -5c but snow is forecast for later in the day and Wednesday.


  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    How do you find the spinning affects your knee?
    I spin for 5 minutes before my run as part of my warm up and I find it great, no discomfort at all. I get a little twinge when I stand up on the pedals so I do not make a habit of doing that.
    I find running much easier on my knee if I make sure I am well warmed up and my joints are well lubricated. After I have spun I spend 5 to 10 minutes on dynamic stretches, the usual stuff, grapevines, lunges, high knees and butt kicks.

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    I must thank you for suggesting ball rolling on my feet. I introduced it to my daily post run exercises rather than just once a week and it has had an immediate impact. The most noticeable is first thing in the morning walking downstairs, very little stiffness or discomfort.

  • Mick - still putting in the hard yards. A forecast 'only' -5c puts ours into perspective.

    36 minute hilly run for me today. This is the longest (and hardest) run so far this year, although of course the year is still young. Really took it out of me. No 5k 'race' this Saturday as I'm working so I'd like to get some decent training in before the next one to arrest the slide to 22mins+.

  • good morning

    you must have bought  a lot for the panic to spread southimage

    I had a look and there was nothing in the aerobic tank so base building it was.
    I have done 36, 39 and 39 miles in each week since Christmas and hope to do similar this week.
    Then a cut back week, mainly becasue I will be travelling on 3 days so no chance of running, befoer resuming on slightly increased mileage adn aiming for 10 miles as a long run with little HR drift over it
    I could never have managed that sort of mileage on a treddie so you sticking it out on one takes some doing!! I hope the weather improves enough for you to get out and enjoy some running there

    facts please!
    How far in 36 minutes, how much climb?
    Puppies are very attractiveimage

    easy 3 miles this morning with a run this evening as well to come.
    28:45 (9:34m/m) with avHR 128 and a max of 140 over a gently undulating course with just over 100' of climb overall mainly in the last two miles

    9:15  118  130
    9:47  132  140
    9:42  133  140

  • Diana, I reckon you did very well to do a half marathon in those conditions, especially as it was an open-ended run with no definite finish line. I remember the steam trains on the Hayling Billy line when holidaying there as a young child.

    John, another good park run there and a change of tactics seems to have paid off with a category win.

    TS, I'm really impressed with your 38.8 weekly mileage. Sorry to hear about your friend though. I can't speak from direct experience from family or friends but it does seem to me that so many people with an awful diagnosis do seem to find the strength from somewhere to cope.

    Pammy, I used to work night shifts for a number of years. One compensation was the feeling of leaving work when everyone else who were on normal hours were arriving for the day.

    Columba, hope the knee is improving with rest.

    Ray, a good 12 mile run. Your team is going very well at the moment.

    ceal, thanks for letting us know about JJ. Hope he does get back to running in some shape or form.

  • Unfortunately my come back didn't last long. The day after my successful 0.25 mile slow jog I tried another one at the same pace and before too long the pain came back. Not as bad as before (not that it's ever really bad) but I decided to give it a bit more time so haven't run for a week and will give it at least another week. It's on the mend but so so slow.

  • Graham - good to hear from you, Hope the groin is on the mend. I 'did' mine once and felt that the only compensation was that it sounded like a proper footballer injury!

    TS- I could make something up to substitute for facts (I did study politics!) but as I'm a technophobe I'm afraid I can't do all the HR data, climbs or even distance. I'm like the Pinball Wizard: I play by sense of smell ....well intuition anyway.

  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭

    Graham, - bad news about the pain coming back with what you call a "slow jog". Keep mending.

    Mick - spinning doesn't bother my knee at all, even standing up on the pedals. The class was full last week, and I managed to book the last place for tonight's class; I suppose this is down to the "new year, new you" crowd, as it was half-empty in the run-up to Christmas.

    TS - panic buying, nothing of the sort! I always have EV olive oil and quinoa in stock!

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    That sounds very promising as if things were bad there is no way you could be stepping up on the pedals.

    Sorry to hear that, it sounds like a 6 weeker.

    got to agree with Tony, we need details, not that we are competitive in anyway.

    What does your avg HR translate to in %WHR?

    An enjoyable outside run today despite having to work around lots of ice in places

    09:50 AM Tuesday, January 17, 2017
    Gym8.2k, felt v strong, knee moaned a bit but felt better at faster pace near end
    Weather data empty
    Mean Temp = -6c, Min Temp = -10c, Max Temp = -1c Humidity = 82%
    Mean Wind Speed = 7 kph, Mean Wind Direction = NNE
    Run Duration = 50:06, Run Length = 8.2 Kms or 5.1 Miles
    Average Run Pace = 06:09 per Km or 09:53 per Mile, Age grade = 58.2 %
    Average Run WHR = 68.3 %, Max Run WHR = 85.9 %
    Average Run Cadence = 84.9, Average stride length = 1.0 m
    Lap Duration Kms Miles Per Km Per Mile AWHR MWHR Cadence Slength(m)
    01    06:31   1.0 0.6       06:31    10:29      43.0% 54.1% 83.0 0.93
    02    05:52   1.0 0.6       05:52    09:27      53.3% 65.9% 85.0 1.00
    03    06:17   1.0 0.6       06:17    10:06     68.9% 77.8% 85.0 0.94
    04    06:09   1.0 0.6       06:09    09:53     73.3% 83.7% 85.0 0.96
    05    05:59   1.0 0.6       05:59    09:38     74.8% 83.0% 84.0 0.99
    06    06:02   1.0 0.6       06:02    09:43     77.8% 80.7% 84.0 0.99
    07    06:10   1.0 0.6       06:10    09:55     77.0% 80.7% 86.0 0.94
    08    06:17   1.0 0.6       06:17    10:07     75.6% 82.2% 87.0 0.91
    09    00:49   0.2 0.1       05:15    08:27     83.7% 85.9% 86.0 1.11

    Fairly obvious where I was picking my way past the ice


  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭

    Columba-Think spinning is really good cardio workout I used do a class every week.

    Graham -Hope the setback is not for to long.We are going well at the moment but us spurs fans are always waiting for the collapse.

    TS-Your average weekly mileage is good,i won't get near you this week as I am of to Ireland for a party and hangover.

    Mick6-Thought it was cold enough here tonight till I read your post.Did you have company on your run or was it a solo effort?

    Workout tonight was 5x1k reps with a standing 2minute recovery.We done these in a park as the track was not available .

    4:17/ 3:57/ 4:06/ 3:58/ 4:04


  • good morning

    good news that you can manage the spinning class without discomfort - or at least discomfort in your knee - I am sure the rest of you suffers a bit!

    groin strains/pulls/tears are really tricky. I had one many years ago when playing rugby/football and after rest it would feel fine even when running normally but when I stepped sharply or accelerated really hard it would go ping. I recall playing for many weeks where I never really got out of third gear just to protect it before it eventually cleared up
    Thanks about the mileage comments - they are all at low aerobic thresholds so there is no real stress - other than carrying my bulk around!!

    Partyimage!! Enjoy
    It is the Hash dinner on Saturday night so Sunday may be a bit of an effort to get out................
    Good session last evening. They were all well under 7m/m pace so a few more of those will stand you in good stead for a very fast 5K time

    hope you enjoyed the great outdoors experienceimage
    That run was just about what I am capable of at the moment so I know how it feels.However my WHR is a bit below your levels just now averaging around 65-68% WHR including my big hills (not being competitive of courseimage)

    just give us the facts, give us the facts, man. None of this spin doctoringimage
    http://www.mapmyrun.com/gb/ or similar

    Ended up doing quite a tough 5 miles last evening but was suitably recompensed with home made shepherd's pie and Golden Ale at the endimage

    This morning was however a bit of a drag and I struggled to get my HR up to 130 running 5.6 miles in 54:57 (9:47m/m) with avHR128 (64% WHR) and a max of 145 (76% WHR) on the hill.

    09:37  119  128
    09:05  126  136
    09:41  129  133
    09:40  129  134
    11:01  136  145  No distractions today unfortunately
    05:34  133  140

    the MHR on miles other than the big hill were just spikes where I ran across roads etc.
    If I had pushed up to 130 I would have been completely knackered!!

  • TS - we have one very important thing in common: I too am  a fan of Golden Ales. On the clamour from you and Mick for data, I can never deliver all the HR stuff. But I did run a fairly well measured 5k this morning in lovely sunny (but still cold) weather. I went for it at race pace but only managed 22:20. I did a negative split - not a deliberate ploy but because I was so depressed by my time at the half-way point that I went for it like a maniac on the home run. I got some very strange looks from the more sensible denizens of the town who were taking a leisurely stroll by the sea.

    So, as an estimate - HR was 105%!

    Ray: I believe they know how to party in Ireland - but maybe you could still teach them something?

  • Mick, you were talking a while ago about not being able to easily read the display on your new watch. I've had my Garmin 305 for over six years now and it does look a bit dated. Another runner was ribbing me about its size before my last race but I wouldn't swap it as I find the numbers quite comfortable to read. Smaller in this context might be more stylish but not necessarily better for those of us with less than perfect vision.

    TS, my problem is a strain I think rather than a tear or pull so hopefully won't come back in a hurry if I'm careful. I can see what a problem it must be for a rugby or football player as kicking a ball definitely wouldn't help mine heal.

    Ray, great set of 1 Ks. 

    John, if you're like me, what feels like race pace during a training run is really a little bit slower. Of course, you may show greater determination than me!

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    The displays shown as you run are readable but the detail of your run after are hard to read. I could write an app for it that displayed a bigger font but I have spent too much time programming rather than drawing and want to get back to it. I don't know why but the two activities seem mutually exclusive.

    Yes on my own as my weekday running partners were both down south in the sun and warmth.

    I would be very interested in seeing how your HR profile looks on one of your more intense runs. Is there anyone you know that would lend you their device?

    5 miles today in warmer weather, -3c, but crusty snow and slush under foot so a very slow run.
    My garmin produced a very odd profile which I am sure is wrong at least for the first part.


     Hard to understand why it would record a high HR then suddenly drop. It was underneath my shirt so that may have had some effect as I did push my shirt sleeve back at one point to see the display.

  • Graham
    a strain probably still involves some tearing of muscle fibre -  normally referred to as a Grade 1 
    http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/groin_and_pelvis/groin_strain_sum.php  - you might enjoy the black and white compression shorts on view here!!
    The Physioroom is a good website for diagnosing muscle and tissues ailments - I have used it quite a bitimage.

    oh yes - Golden Alesimage
    it is only 4 days recovery since your Parkrun - you will not have fully recovered.|
    The problem is that a 5K involves about 80% aerobic energy input an given your limited aerobic work outs you will find it difficult to recover that side of it.
    Distance, time and elevation is all that's neededimage

  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭

    Laughing at the way Ray and TS take their hangovers for granted. No thought of avoiding them.

    Spinning class last night was good and sweaty. The teacher has us work with weights for a short time towards the end of the class. I am wimpy and pick the little 0,5kg weights (they are pink!). I chose some heavier ones once, but couldn't cope with them when it came to holding them at arms' length (arms horizontal) for what felt like minutes on end. 

  • I seem to remember that the world best for a V60 is in the 2hrs.30 something bracket.

  • Mick - that's a good point but the short answer is that I don't know anyone who uses one of these. Were I a club runner I'm sure I would. I looked at the product range but for the life of me I can't get excited about them. Your HR read-out did look a bit odd  - but I won't use that to undermine the whole technology! I can see how you are 'hooked' on it - my brother-in-law is a fanatic cyclist (and an engineer) and he is exactly the same.

    TS - that's another very good point. I'm running 'on empty' (in terms of a training base) right now. Partly that's because I've had the (very slight) injury and also because - and I know this is feeble - the time of year. Putting it more positively I respond much better to a little bit of warmth (climate and possibly human!) and light - I've always run much more enthusiastically and (therefore) better as Spring approaches.

    I looked at my training log for last year and while I was reasonably fast at the end of January I did all my best times in March/April. At around that time I was competing in and training for duathlons which I found to be really hard; and the bike/run training allowed my to step up intensity without injury. Indeed on my PB run (20:20) I actually cycled 13 miles to the event and home - at decent pace.

    So my current status is 'hanging on in there' and trying to shave a couple of seconds off my 5K time while awaiting the onset of the better weather. I'll also check out the duathlon calendar and maybe be get back on the bike..............but I am a fair weather cyclist as well as runner! The aim is to get back to running under 21 mins, That's it.

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    I too find it hard to train intensely in the cold, that being below -10c. The combination of extra layers of clothing, footing and your breath freezing is a big turn off for working hard. I use the deep winter months to rebuild my base and have maintained that cycle for the last 30 years.
    Looking at the world through the eyes of an engineer is definitely different. Even Columba's little weight problem becomes a question of physics that is the force on your muscles is proportional to the size of the weight and the distance from the fulcrum.  However this understanding did not help me in my first toneup class consisting of all women. I saw the little pink weights that they were using and despite my engineering brain mt male ego took over and I picked up much bigger weights to my serious regret.

    Xtraining today, lots of upper body work.


  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭

    I shall sneak a look at the rest of the class next week, and see which weights they have chosen. The teacher herself seems to be using 1.5kg. She is quite a muscley lady. 

    Rohit Garg - world record for V60 doing what?

    I went for a long walk today, and enjoyed it greatly although the weather was overcast and grey. The walk went along a stretch of the Wye Valley walk, then doubled-back along a footpath close to the river Wye itself.

  • Mick - ah, the constant battle between the forces of rationality and irrationality. Thank goodness that the most powerful man on the planet has very little of the latter quality and we can sleep safely in our beds with this knowledge as our pillow!

  • Columba - I've been thinking about your query to Rohit. I think it's the 'world record' for putting on running tights in the morning after a heavy training (be could be drinking) session the previous night.

  • good morning

    cycling certainly increases aerobic efficiency- just not as well as running as it's non load bearing and it is harder to get HR up consistently - the two are, of course, interlinked

    very unusual spike on your Garmin - they usually go the other way!! I wonder if tugging  your sleeve up had disturbed the contact?
    Nice to see someone else falls into that male ego trapimage

    There may not be a hangover but food and drink will be consumed in quantity and the consequences are always felt the next day.
    There was a nice programme on the TV a couple of nights ago as Ray Mears followed the Wye from its source to the Severn. One of the highlights was a cliff face where peregrines nested and the noise they made was deafening!!!

    Very busy day yesterday to clear space for a blokely afternoon and evening out with my friend and a couple of others. We got the train to Leeds, went to Whitelocks, the oldest pub therein, to sample a couple of their very fine craft ales and then on to a renowned Indian restaurant, which wasn't where it should have been, but which had relocated to a new site!! Cue much merriment.
    Super meal and then back to another watering hole before catching the train home giving his wife a much needed rest from her constant vigil. 
    he seems fine, just forgets sometimes where he is or what he has just said and he has started dictating his memoirs onto tape!!!

    My early morning run yesterday was hard work and was mirrored almost exactly by this mornings as well which was 30 seconds slower at 55:59.6 (10m/m) for 5.6 miles with avHR 129 and a max of 145. 

    10:05  120  130
    09:18  129  134
    09:50  131  134
    09:42  129  133
    11:24  140  148 nearly gave up on the hill
    05:40  129  134

    Both days have been very hard work to try and keep my HR up to 130 not down to it. I think the extra miles on Tuesday have fatigued me and I need that planned cut back week next week this week!!
    Just goes to prove the old maxim - 3 weeks training, one week cut back!

  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭

    I find it a little sad to think that Trump and Trudeau are the best NA can offer politics. At least the UK have politicians that come equipped with a brain that works most of the time.

    A shorter quicker run for me today. It felt really good and I actually had to hold myself back as I want to run longer tomorrow.

    09:49 AM Friday, January 20, 2017
    Gym5.7k, felt really good, much smoother and longer stride.
    Run Duration = 34:19, Run Length = 5.7 Kms or 3.5 Miles
    Average Run Pace = 06:01 per Km, 09:41 per Mile, Age grade = 59.1 %
    Average Run WHR = 70.8 %, Max Run WHR = 85.2 %
    Average Run Cadence = 85.2, Average stride length = 0.98 m
    Lap Duration Kms Miles Per Km Per Mile AWHR MWHR Cadence Slength(m)
    01   06:28   1.0   0.6   06:28   10:25 55.6% 64.4% 85.0 0.91
    02   06:09   1.0   0.6   06:09   09:53 65.2% 70.4% 86.0 0.95
    03   06:13   1.0   0.6   06:13   10:01 71.1% 74.8% 85.0 0.95
    04   05:45   1.0   0.6   05:45   09:16 75.6% 80.0% 86.0 1.01
    05   05:47   1.0   0.6   05:47   09:18 78.5% 83.0% 84.0 1.03
    06   03:56   0.7   0.4   05:35   08:59 82.2% 85.9% 85.0 1.05


  • Managed about 7K today with a couple of quickish 1k bursts. No competing for me this weekend. Will try to get in a longer run on Sunday.

    Mick & TS - a shame we can't get you on the same track for a head-to-head?

    Watched The Donald's speech live today. Am speechless!

    TS - the blokey afternoon and evening sounded just the job. There are few things in the world that can't be sorted out over a few craft ales, although The Donald might just prove to be one of them.

  • good day

    nice to hear you feeling really good on a run and holding back - sounds promising
    I think you over-estimate UK politicians when yo say their brain works most of the time - it works most of the time on what's best  for them rather than the country

    Sounds a sensible approach - just cut out the faster bursts if you want to build up the aerobic base more quickly.
    It was indeed a very good day out - we had sorted out Brexit, the negotiations, trade deals with the rest of the world and were just about to resolve world peace when we had to catch the train!!
    There was a general consensus that I should lead the negotiations as I expounded on my theory of "never going naked to the negotiation table" with practical examples I could draw upon. By this time we have been joined by quite a crowd!!

    Very easy 3 miles this morning as I dialled back the effort and ran it in 31:52 (10:35m/m) with avHR 123  (61%WHR) and a max of only 132 despite having over 100' of climb in the run.
    It's just about classified as running, but it kept the streak going and hopefully has not done any damage for my longer run tomorrow - or the dinner tonight!!!

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