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Heart rate monitor training
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I note she says it can be high in children - does that not imply decreasing with age?
Certainly no formula is going to be more than a guesstimate at best and a shot in the dark at worst.
Certainly a point of debate!!
Recent research tends to favour the doesn't change school, but I am sure there are arguments on both sides.
The most important points of all are (1)max HR cannot be estimated by a mathematical formula and (2) needs to be done mutliple times.
I had mine tested properly and was surprised by result. At least showed that i had been training too softly!! Upped the tempo (but wihtin Parker guidelines) and improved performance as a result.
Sorry to make a debate out of a non-debate!!!
Having said the above, it is good fun trying to stay young. n fact I will try & stay young again this evening by having a recovery run with the Daughter
But I have to say mine has declined with old age! I am fitter than I have ever been at 66yrs and I ahve always kept pretty fit except when the children where young. But I think what redkite says above is very relevant.
I emailed you on RW yesterday, did you get it?
If not I will resned but it will be a week or so before I do as I am away next week from tomorrow.
Thanks, that makes interesting reading. It seems likely then that my measured 199 is nearer my real max HR than the calculation. It would probably be better to use this in the subsequent calculations of WHR etc. Although I'm tempted to try the 2 mins Jog/ 3 mins run fast/ 2 mins jog/ 3 mins run fast thing to see what that gives. Has anyone given this a go ?
Ceal - replied
I live in hill country so seem to run all my slow runs at 70% and it feels fairly easy(returning very easily from injury)
Any book I should be reading? although my coach sets my training at HR levels for each run.
Thanks
Waves to Snappy and LOK
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
bo-bo had hers on and we ran according to her "comfort zone" (Polar talk?). Our kilometre splits were within 7 seconds of one another and after the run her HRM told her she'd run 4:01 of her 4:17 total time within her "comfort zone". If that's not textbook stuff ...
I didn't see it that high, though I usually run with my HRM showing my average for the run rather than actual rate (so as not to scare myself).
Should I discard that 207 as an anomaly? Seems a bit of a jump up, and my average for the race was the same as other HM's.
was the 207 just a jump in reading near the start? or was it a more sustained reading?
My experience with old polar was that at the start of a run, I would often get several random and high (>200) readings. Very irritating as sent the alarms off all the time. Can be a symptom of low batteries.
If is was a more sustained reading, then maybe you were working harder this time?
More likely as random readin especially if your HRM was picking up any interference from other runners
I'm not too keen on the schedules in the 'idiots' book. They assume 7day training and also are based on much shorter race distances.
It's nearly 17weeks until the marathon and most plans I've seen previously are based on 16week schedules.
I've seen my Polar spike as well, not usually that high though. And if it was a sustained reading then I guess my HR for the race would have been greater than 174.
My feeling was that it is a random reading, just wanted some reassurance. Ta.
I'm not sure that I've ever seen Marathon HR based schedules, as you would expect to construct your own schedule based on your specific HR data. HR training does follow some general guidlines which can be used for any distance race where you are relying on your Aerobic rather then your Anerobic base.
Having identified my aerobic limits I'm doing all my runs at that level, as I get fitter, my pace is increasing for the same limit (70% Heart Rate Reserve). So I'm getting faster at the same HR.
I also know my Threshold range so when I want to do some speedwork I stay in that range. Long runs, I allow myself to run at 75% of HRR.
All the other running principles apply, so I'm building mileage slowly, I'm incorporating speedwork, once or twice a week, and I'm doing my long runs each week. But doing all of that based on the above HR limits.
And thats my marathon training plan in a nutshell. I'm doing my first marathon in October in Dublin. If anyone would like to offer a more experienced view of what should be done, I'd also be happy to take their guidance on board.
Dex.
Whilst I am not aiming for a marathon I did start with the programme in the book two or three weeks ago and its gradually been evolving to suit me, whilst keeping the principles. With work etc need at least two days a week off etc so have put a onger run in over the weekend.
Agree that Parker 7 day schedule is not quite right for marathon's. Could try the 3 day a week schedules? See other forums.One long run, one tempo, one VO2 max etc.
You are absolutly correct.
Perhaps I should have make it clearer in my post above, my Threshold stuff is all done at 85% ish of max HRR. And those sessions are typically with my club, on the track on Monday nights or on a longer run with the club on Thursday nights. So 1 or 2 sessions per week assuming I make both nights of course.
All other stuff is done nice and easy with a slight increase in HR for the Long Run.
On the other hand I'm such a long way off my Marathon in Dublin (October), while the speedwork should not be ignored, it is not as important as building the Aerobic Base which is primarily the phase I'm concentrating on for now.
Dex.
But if you stick to the three-run thing you may not make the necessary physiological adaptations for marathon running. This caught several of us from the 3-day thread out at FLM.
My plan from now till mid September will be lots of miles at less than 70% plus one fartlek/rep/hill and one tempo session a week. I intend to include a medium to long midweek run (8 to 12 miles) too. As I get faster at 70% this will hopefully become goal marathon pace.
My biggest problem is that >85% is now bl**dy hard. Exactly as Parker says!! Outside a race I find it very difficult to train at >85% for several miles. Hopefully this is where the real perfoamcne will come from!?!?
Almost impossible on swim or bike ride (I am really a tri-man, not a marahton man!!)
I did some track work yesterday - 1km reps - was getting up to 88% - but my legs start to break down at that kind of pace! Had to bail the session 3/4 way through...
But the advantage of "attacking from the bottom" for me has been that I can do 7mm pace at 70% now and EVENTUALLY I'll be able to handle the higher HRs and THEN I'll be hitting some good speeds...
I did my first marathon in April following Shades 3 times a week program.
I have now decided to try something different and train 6 days a week. As I have gone from 3 to 6 runs per week over a short period of time I am doing all my runs at < 70% HRR.
My next marathon is in October and this will be my second. Will I be OK keeping to all runs < 70% or should I be introduing some faster runs?
All advice very much appreciated.
The point it illustrates though is that if you patiently work at the lower HRs you will see good progress at those HRs over time. If you want to run a good marathon you need to be able to run fast producing minimal lactate - training faster and producing lactate is counterproductive in the long run.
Lisa -
I know nothing of HRR for training as I do not use it myself, but I'd advise staying on the easy runs until you have adapted to the most weekly runs and the highest weekly mileage you plan to do.
Then you can add a couple of weekly runs at 80-82%maxHR. Warm up first (and cool down after) and aim for around 1hr @targetHR. Maybe 3 x 20min @82% and 1hr straight or 2 x 30min @80% (jog 5min v easy between reps).
The idea with these sessions is to remove cardiac drift - in other words if you do 3 x 20min try and do the same loop (15-25min loop will do) each time and you should not see a higher HR at the same pace on 3rd lap compared to the 2nd (or a slower pace at the same HR). Only when you consistently see no cardiac drift can you then increase the HR.
Gradually, if you are patient, over time you can get that up to 88%maxHR, though you won't before Oct. On race day go no higher that the HR you can hold with no drift.
Two of those sessions a week and a long run are the foundations of a good marathon. The remainder of the runs should be as easy as pie.
Hope that helps.
Mon 1 hour @<70%HR
Tue 1 hour @<70%HR
Wed 1 1/2 hours @<70%HR
Thu 1 hour @<70%HR
Fri 1 hour@<70%HR
Sat 1 1/2 hours @<70%HR
Sun 1 hour @<70HR
I've been doing this now for 3 weeks with no ill effect and finding this easy. To increase my mileage do you think I should increase the length of duration for one of the other runs or maybe increase the %HR that I'm working out at or maybe both?
But really whether you go for more running or faster running would depend hugely on what pace you run at. If you are doing them all at 7mm pace, you need to increase HR urgently. If they are all 10mm pace, you may benefit in the long run from doing more miles if you have the time/patience.
I'd probably think about doing the kind of session I mentioned above for Linda at least once a week just to get the body used to some slightly faster running.
The other option is to keep the mileage steady but slightly increase HR for all runs - gradualy picking up to 75%.
What are you aiming for long term?
I understand need to run marathons at fast pace plus minimu lacate etx. However from 'Advanced marathoning' was led to believe that the way to achieve this was to combine the slow runs plus some fast runs. In their scedule there is a noticeable build up in VO2 max runs etc. and my friend who did more hard sessions in conjunction with lots of <70% stuff did better than those (myself included) who did much more long distance <70% training (proportionately). If I understand correctly AD disaggrees with your view that faster sessions are counterproductive.
Area of future debate I am sure!!
What do you mean by HR vs HRR. I use (Max HR- Resting HR) * % threshold plus resting HR (ie the parker/karkoven (?) formula. Are you saying the same thing or are you using max HR on its won?