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Heart rate monitor training
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I've been told that you shouldn't see a breakthrough for 4-6 weeks. I know the feeling my pace hasn't increased much and it's still painfully slow. My first run I averaged about 9:45 min/miles but the average pace for the week slowed considerably after that. In fact it's only now getting back to around that level now. My 4 weeks training look like this.
Week Distance Avg Pace
24:6/5/06 6.11 10:05
23:5/29/06 31.39 09:53
22:5/22/06 21.12 10:30
21:5/15/06 26.85 10:28
20:5/8/06 24.61 10:19
I'm hoping to increase the weekly distance again this week. I also think that some of the runs the temperture has effected the average pace.
What sort of mileage are you doing?
Results for me aren't good.
April 16th (pre FLM and heartrate training)
10.77 miles av HR 150 av speed 8.3mph
June 4th 4 weeks HR training.
10.78 miles (same course) av HR 157 av speed 7.9 mph.
This uses the competitive schedule at back of book.
I used the method from Compleat Idiots (Karvonen). This gives me 139 as 70%.
But 139 as a percentage of my max HR (179) is 77%.
If I run on flat roads I can do just over 9 minute miling at 139. As soon as I hit the trails with their washboard ups and downs my average pace drops to just over 10 minutes (10.40 on the hilliest).
I did 11 miles this morning in 1.50. I did the last mile in 7:10 (my plan was to do 10 miles at sub 139 HR, and having done that I thought I deserved a reward!) My average HR for the whole run was 136.
I have observed that on alternate days I can do 9 minute miles on the flat but then the next day my HR will keep me to slower than 10 minutes a mile.
I want to build up mileage a lot now so I am quite happy to run "slowly" for the most part. But it is frigthening to see how quickly the body starts regarding "slow" as "normal" and making the prospect of 10 k at 7:10 miling quite unattainable. I was v glad when i got to the road and had to stop my final mile today!
Tomorrow all being well I'll do another 10 miler at 139 or below.
Therefore, I've gone back to basics and I'm (a) taking pressure off myself by just running for enjoyment - hey that's what it's suppoed to be about isn't it? and (b)doing all running at <70% using the Karvonen method of calculation to try at get aerobically more efficient. At present, 70%=150HR=8:58/mile.
I started this 4 weeks ago, purely to do something different post FLM and get off the "treadmill" of just chasing times. I'm not racing either at the moment. I just want to try something properly for once.
Anyway, I gauge progress by using a 5 mile route once a week. For me this has been:-
11 May - 9:25/mile (22 miles per week)
18 May - 9:09/mile (24)
25 May - 9:01/mile (25)
1 Jun - 8:58/mile (27)
So this is progress, however I did have a break post-FLM. I guess this would account for the big progress in the first 2 weeks.
I am intending on carrying on like this for the time being, although I know I'll have to introduce speedwork eventually. I am going to build up the mileage as far as I can/time allows. I know my mileage is slow - my best ever mileage week is 57 miles.
So, any constructive comments/advice?
Also worth noting that my weekly mileage has increased from 40 to an average of 55 miles per week, on the basis that they are mostly easy Recovery Ceiling runs and I don't feel as tired as I used to.
Dex.
snapstinget - %age measured by the compleat idiot method, whatever that is properly known as! (working HR?) I share your concern that the slower runs begin to feel normal though! Only realise it when I get overtaken by people I really shouldn't be overtaken by!
My problem is a slower version of Mr Bump's - 10k and Half PB's are 49 and 1:48, but marathon is 4:25! Hoping this will do the job.
Last 4 runs have been:
5 @ 71%, 10:40
4.4 @ 71%, 10:36
10.2 @ 70%, 10:14
3.1 @ 68%, 9:51
The last one was this evening, so certainly making some progress...
My first mara is in Sept so I have decided to sort out the "base" in my training.
I'm doing 1 intervals(balls out), 1 tempo (circa 93%), 1 LSR and 5 general <70's per week.
I have twelve weeks before taper.
Dex - I am following your approach (actually it was your original posts that inspired me to go for it), although I'm aiming for more mileage.
Stump - my big problem is that I don't necessarily feel that these plods are slow!
Mr Bump - that's a pretty satisfying rate of improvement.
I also find Pantman's approach very inspiring. He had the patience to put in all those "slow" miles early in the year and it seems to be paying off.
I also use the Complete Idiots (Karvonen) method of working out the Heart Rate.
I'm also starting to feel like these slow runs feel normal which is a little worrying as before starting this all my runs would of been above 85%HR and these felt comfortable.
Mr Bump
Thats some pretty impressive in such a short space of time.
I know what you mean about feeling a muppet going so slow just look as it as character building as well as bas building
Whilst I appreciate your desire to debate, I think you can appreciate that from my standpoint, your last couple of posts are essentially a recapitulation of your earlier thoughts.
Again, all I have to say in this regard is not that I dispute your beliefs, but that if overt statements concerning physiological adaptations that occur in response to a specific training regimen are going to be made, that such adaptations should be proven to have taken place in response to the prescribed training.
Pantman,
All I can say is that I'm very disappointed that you haven't responded. I was really hoping that you'd post some sort of reply to my enquiries, but as has happened previously, no response has been forthcoming. Consequently, the only conclusion I can draw is that there is absolutely no justification for the claims that yourself/Hadd/Kellogg have made regarding physiological adaptations that occur in response to training at 70% MHR and Aet. Subsequently I would suggest that all concerned disregard your/Hadd's/Kellogg's statements as nothing other than rank speculation.
I've recently started HRM training. First bit of trouble I'm having is that the HRM seems to be all over the place for the first 8-10 minutes. I think I maxed at 237 tonight!!?? and eventually it goes back down.
Also, being 28, my max HR would appear to be 192 and at 75% that equates to about 145. I can't seem to get it down that far without walking. I seem to average 155-160 running at 12min/mile and I feel a right whoppa running this slow.
However, I do feel fresh when I get back, so I'd think no lactic build up, which I imagine is the point of aerobic base training.
Plus, I know its early days having had a 6 month lay off, and I've only been going a week, and I'm back to 40 minute runs even if horribly slow.
I just wanted to get some confirmation that what I'm experiencing and going through is about the norm. I'm hoping to build my runs up to 60min non-stop 6-7 days per week all at 75% Max HR to build a solid base.
I'm guessing the 237 was caused by interferance or maybe from not having a proper contact with your body. It's best to wet the straps contact points before you go out running this normally helps the hrm get a better signal.
I'd also do a max heart rate test if I were you to check that your max is 192 as this is very rarely the case. For a lot of people it will be higher and sometimes it can even be lower.
I'd go even farther than paininthefoot: slap water on your chest and run the electrodes under the tap before putting the belt on.
As the running shirt fabric rubs the belt the friction causes static which also causes false readings. So splash water on the front of your shirt too.
What the heck, you'll soon be wet from sweat anyway ...
As paininthefoot says, your max HR may well be quite a bit higher than 192. My 26 yo son has a max of 212, for example.
Also (at the risk of offending you - I don't mean to) if you are carrying a real paunch you may find it difficult to mainatin a lower HR. In that case, I am not sure you should worry about Karvonen etc right now. I trained a friend who was seriously lardy and at first his HR was around 160 at 12 minute miling. I must admit my training nearly killed him a couple of times (!) but luckily his HR never actually dropped to zero: we got it down to about 140 (65%) on our usual runs within a few months just by pushing ahead at a speed he felt comfy with (which, as I indicated, was about 12 minutes a mile). After a few months we were able to do a few tempo stretches, too.
He never lost much weight but he is still running several times a week.
marmite-carts and the debate boys et al - Keep it up boys!
Also might be worth checking your batteries on your HRM. The first time they ran out on my Polar, I started getting v weird readings. However, previous advice above should sort you out.
paininthefoot: I thought it might be interferance at first, but the signal between chest strap and watch is digital. I thought I might have it in analog mode so held the button for 4 secs, but it completely lost the signal :-) Dunno if I'm ready for Max HR testing yet.
Snapstinget: I've been spitting and licking the back of the chest strap (nice). But I'll have a go at wetting my chest and lash the strap in water. No offence taken, I'm 16st and when I used to run some time ago, my most comfortable weight was ni the low 15s. I'll be getting there soon enough as I can usually drop the pounds quickly watching the calories and putting the effort in.
TH2: When I first received my HRM it wouldn't work at all. I phoned the supplier and they said change the battery before sending it back just incase. I did, and it then worked, so there's a new battery.
I'm really looking forward to the HR dropping so I can up the speed more toward 10min/mile as I feel like a right plank :-D
Groovy you've got it...that makes me feel a whole lot better. Still feel like an uber plank running at 12min/mile, it feels like I'm jogging on the spot. Role on lower heart rates so I can speed up a tad.
Bleedin warm tonight, should be interesting to see what the HR does tonight
groovy - thanks for that. Should've thought of it myself.
Lard Man - we're in the same kind of weight bracket. I can happily do 12 minute miles. Happily because I have seen far better runners than me doing 11 or more minutes a mile without complaining. One of my best mates is a 3:06 marathoner and on practically no training he'll reel off a 20 minute 5 k or a 1.30 half. But he'll happily go for an hour with our slowest beginners at 12 mins a mile if needs be. Or take Gobi: he's doing Comrades in three weeks and did a 17 min 5 k a week ago. But he happily ran with me for 3:40 on a 20 miler.
Moral: never think 12 mins is "slow" in absolute terms. And never think that really good runners will sneer at you for running at a pace with a reason for it.
Another one done. My legs are hurting more than they do when I'm running. Don't get it?
Took the advice of dousing the chest and strap before the off tonight, and it worked a treat, bar one little tiny fluctuation for about 15 seconds.
Felt strong tonight, which is suprising, as I've been putting together cabinets and wardrobes and some heavy lifting. Managed to go for a full hour at 11.30min pace withing 150-159, with a few fluctuations up to 165 on hills (well, gradual inclines).
All in all, that was pretty pleasing. I'll see how I am tomorrow, and I may go in the morning if not stiff, otherwise I'll wait till the evening.
I'm off for a beer and a chocolate bar..I've earned it :-D
Easy on the calories tho as you have probably burned off enough for a couple of chunks rather than the whole bar!
Due to the restart in running, I'm trying to lop off as much weight as quickly as possible for 3-4 weeks, making running easier and better on the joints. I'm restricting by about 1650 calories a day, aiming to lost around 3 and a bit pounds a week.
Its a bit extreme to keep up for too long, but I'm putting the effort in so I can actually consume a good amount of calories. For instance yesterday I had a non-sedentary day, heavy lifting, DIYing etc. With a two hour walk with the pooch, and an hour running, adding that to me Basal Metabolic Rate I was on 4350 calorie burned for the day.
A sedentary day is 2740, and the idea is to restrict by 1650, which doesn't leave much, and I don't like to eat close to 1000 cals, due to hunger and I think its a bit silly. But with the extra actity and exercise my balance for the 1650 restriction was 2700. I failed miserably at eating all that though as I found it too much with the heat. That was including 2 cans of Carlsberg and a choccie bar!!
Tracking my calories has been the best thing I've ever done in past. It has an eerie science about it, that never fails.You look at your averages for the last two weeks, and it may say you've averaged x calories a day, times it by number of days (14 for instance) divide it by a pound of fat (3500) and you theoretically should have lost the product. In almost all cases, its bang on within 1/4 - 1/2 lb.
Anyway, I'm waffling.
Have a good day all!
Yesterday I went for my first run in the morning and it was about 30 seconds slower than what I had been averaging normally. I also had a run when I got back from work last night and the pace was back to normal. So maybe it's something to do with getting up and running in the morning maybe the body hasn't woken up...lol. Has anyone else found this?