POSE Method of running?

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  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭

    Spudly: A video would really help. However....

    <Dons the Sherlock Holmes cap and lights pipe...>

    The following words caught my eye : "trying to land with an even softer knee". The only perception in Pose is that of bodyweight on the BOF. The focus is on the Pull action of ankle under the hip. Don't focus on anything to do with landing.

    Hence feeling your knee bend or anything else is actually a distraction from the Pull action. Your knee will bend but don't worry about it.  So, I think you are landing ahead with a straighter knee from which you can feel the knee physically flex as you land.

    However, since you're running that land impact can be very high. IMHO, landing ahead spending too much time with bent knee, and then having to straighten the knee as you take the next step, means too much time on support and possibly an aggressive over-pull to yank that foot back to the front again.

    For example, do some base jumps but when you land try over-flexing the knees. And then launch yourself upwards again. Now try keeping the basejumps minimal and imagine a skipping rope is passing underneath so you have to pull both feet up using the hamstrings (ie try not to mentally push upwards). Which one is more effortful? 

    What you should be doing is landing closer under your hips. You do this by (paradoxically) not focussing on landing! Just focus on Pulling your ankle up. Instead of "landing" consider using the term "relaxing the swing leg". The relaxed leg will land correctly.

    A good drill is the COS and forward COS. A key part of it to let your raised leg just drop by suddenly relaxing all muscles. 

    In the meantime,  RICE for ITBS. If you can run then do so but as long as you can maintain good form. Otherwise, slow down and run easier.

  • nrg - thnx for the comments.

    funny, til I read your post (and reread mine) I didn't think I focused on the landing - funny what you miss of yourself...

    found a small snippet of vid which I'll try and post later, go to go now, daughter is escaping from the house on her bike.....

  • after much hassle with google, finally got it uploaded.

    I'm in blue, just after the chap in yellow.  Quite embarrased about this one, I've made my assessment, but would be very interested in anyone elses to compare! (think NRG comments already have covered it...)

    in my defence, it was at the end of a race after a down hilly bit, so I was tired and obviously getting carried away... anyway, enough of the excuses.....

     cheers!!!!

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5591789195894542199&hl=en

    forgot to say, afraid it's 16fps (not the usually required 30) and there are only a couple of usable frames around 8s - good luck with the poor footage!

  • Hi All!

    Do we know when the next Pose clinic or mini clinic is?  My form has deteriorated somewhat and I look forward to improving it again!

    Charles

  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭

    Hey Charles,

    Welcome back! - Are you still in one piece? We've all moved over here:

    http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=8340&category=training

    Come and join us.

  • boing!

    Sorry guys - been busy with exams and stuff

    seem to have lost the knack (or any knack I ever had!) - just tried a short run and felt that my feet were rather stamping down - not intentionally but just got the feeling that the front end of my foot was stabbing into the ground a bit and the foot sliding slightly, rather than being all bouncy and springy

    any ideas? 

  • I've been out of it for quite some time but have finally got off the bench again...

     ...not sure for how long...

    I am trying to start slowly and not go crazy although I seem to be getting emense endorphine kicks which is making me want to run forever. Anyway, I have remained sensible so far (I think). I started off with 10 minute runs and if I find the time for more than 3 runs in 7 days I add a minute. I now need one more run in the next 7 days to get onto a huge 14 minutes! Well it's a start after what seems like years on the bench following assorted injuries...

    ...I have notice a couple of nagging feelings that are of concern:

    1) If I run 1st thing in the morning, a few hours later the muscles/tendons at the between the top of my leg and buttock (ham strings?) ache a bit - nothing too bad so far. This does not happen if I run in the afternoon/evening.

    2) I have started to notice a little ache in my left achilles tendon after a toe planting run. This will probably last a day. It has happened on my last 2 runs.

    3) Nightmare possibility (after 2 years off in my heel planting era). I feel a mild "bruising" in my left heel even though I am not landing on it at all. I have suffered plantar fascitus before and it it the nightmare and a half to get over. I will be mortified if this is what it turns into/is.

     Any advice as to (A) how to treat above niggles, (B) what I could be doing wrong to cause them?

     Thanks.

  • just got the pose dvd and book. really interesting stuff. plus i've got the vibram fiver finger shoes which seem perfect for learning the technique. my aim is to do marathons with the new shoes and technique

  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭
    Piggy and jredi: Come and join us on Fetch Efficient Running Thread - http://www.fetcheveryone.com/viewtopic.php?id=8340&page=1494
  • hello nrg-b, long time no see, i shall try find u on fetch now sam howard pose clinic liverpool
  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭

    Hi! Is this thread still alive? If anyone is interested in Pose training with some like minded individuals in London then feel free to come along: http://forums.posetech.com/showthread.php?t=18723

  • Hi nrg-b, sadly too far away for me. Another barefoot run done - off to soak my feet!
  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭
    Siance: Ah well. Maybe I should do a Pose UK Tour image Why do you need to soak your feet after a barefoot run - are they sore?
  • Yes, head oop north!  I'm just doing short ones so feet are adapting at the moment. Really helps me maintain form.
  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭
    Siance: Oh shame! We just did a Pose Clinic in Birmingham last weekend. For any run duration, your feet shouldn't hurt. Where are you running, for how long and at what cadence?
  • Generally I'm running outside, mixed terrain wearing my pimp (Pose) shoes. My only alternative for outdoor barefoot is on a footie pitch and that's fine on the feet, if a bit dull scenery-wise, plus dodging dog eggs.

    But the last few runs have been on my treadie which is where I think the friction's come from. Only up to 30 mins, cadence 180-184.

    I'm really tempted with a pair of the five finger vibrams but want to try them on to get a good fit. Going down for FLM so wondered if anywhere in London sells them?

  • nrg-bnrg-b ✭✭✭

    Siance: Its not about shoes - its about YOU! IMHO, shoes are there only for minimal protection. How about if when you run in the H Streets, you simply pretend you're barefoot? You do realise that the Vibrams are also known as the "Hobbit Shoes". 

  • Lol at Hobbit shoes! Was tempted as the soles seem really thin compared to my pumas. But it does strike me as ridicularse paying more for shoes that are essentially so minimalist. Will take your advice and visualise more image Cheers.
  • Will you lay out please this DVD? I will do excellent Rip.image
  • Hi,

    I have a copy of this DVD (definitely plays on a uk DVD player) plus the Pose method of running book and a copy of the Training essays book for sale on ebay. All 99p starting price, anyone interested?

    Here is a link to the DVD

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dr-Nicholas-Romanovs-Pose-Method-Running-DVD-/150484078293?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3

    Steve

  • Had problem at first understanding what Romanov was talking about. Read the book Born To Run and investigated Evolution running by Mierke. Mierke was easier to understand and his video was the best I've seen. About a month ago went back to looking at Pose, it made more sense to me and I was able to graspe what Romanov was talking about. Where Evolution running was pushing the use of the larger muscle groups hips an quads, Pose was using the hams. I was having trouble with heel flick with Evolution running and the foot drag concept. Could get the heel flick better with Pose with the use of the hams lifting ankle to butt. I have combined some of the concepts of both. I use Evolution running concept for hill running , but use the Pose concept of using the hams. I prescribe to the barefoot concept , wearing shoes (Newtons). Use the concept of foot strike on ball of foot under the hips with slight lean from the ankle. Elastic recoil , the use of Plantar and arch i prescribe to. After having Plantar fascilitis , I will never go back to cushioned shoes.  If it wasn't for this style of running , I wouldn't be able to climb the stairs having compound fracture of the leg 2 years ago. I also would not be able to run without the leg placement under the hips .   You tube has been an excellent aide in learning Pose. No problem with knees or joints because the stress and impact is not transmitted from ball of the foot. 
  • I've been learning POSE for 9 months now

    Seem to get tension a lot especially if I go over 3 miles now started to get achillies problems as well anyone else had these problems ?

  • Am currently having a 2 week 'rest' after popping right calf muscle. First time in a year of running POSE (including marathon distances), which is odd as calf / Achilles injuries are more likely when beginning. All I can assume is that I let the technique slip and focussed too much on landing on the ball of the foot and on 'pushing off' rather than 'pulling up'. According to Dr Romanov, this is what is more likely as not the cause of problems in that area of the leg.
    There is somewhere a video of him giving advice on strengthening techniques for calf and achilles muscles (and advising AGAINST calf raises) but am having problems locating it. Luckily my injury is minor and I hope to be running again by the end of the week.
  • I used to get massive shin splints, no more!
  • Funny.  I always used to see this thread flash by and dismiss it out of hand as "not for me".  Didn't want to tinker with my style.

    Now, after 35 years of running with a monstrous over-stride, I'm 3 months into a POSE-like programme of re-training my gait.  and who would have guessed - reading Born To Run finally pushed me to do something about it.

    All going well so far 

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