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Brian - I've been wondering why everybody has been saying stuff to you when I couldnt see any of your posts. And I know you've just posted cos I saw your name on the "lasp post" bit. So it appears as though I've got you on "ignore member" for some reason, and I cant seem to stop ignoring your member, so sorry, but I'm not ignoring your member, its just RW wont let me see your member. Missus.
Proper Glaswegian drinking there scobos esp since the pubs dont open til 12.30. So unless you know different, that'll be drinking in the house oui?
The "Saturday's lunch" bit gives it away RB...walked into the pub (a proper Gers one of course) just as the match was kicking off...
Of course. I'd forgotten that you're an alky. Make the most of it - there wont be much more of that once you're off the dole.
Why not? Don't the shoe-buying public like a nice dose of booze breath?
DanA - any race photos up yet ?
Hello. Don't think I've posted here before (just lurked a bit)
We are having a discussion on running calculators (McMillian etc) over on the little sister, sub 3.15 thread. Generally we agree that they are pretty accurate at predicting times between 5k up to HM, but then appear wildly optomistic for Marathon predictions (predicting around 10 mins faster than our pbs).
A view has been put forward that although our speed at shorter distances is reasonable, we are lacking the endurance to achieve what we should, with regard to Marathons. (A successful campaign for most of us would include 5x 20milers).
I was wondering, with your greater mileage and endurance base, do you fast people find the calculators accurate predictors of Marathon times, or are they out for you too?
(All findings will be reported back to eager sub 3.15ers!)
Hello keir - I've never used predictors, but I agree that they seem to be optmistic over 26.2 for most. Most folks just dont have the endurance or run enough miles to make them work. The folks at the pointier end of this thread seem to have a better conversion rate, but those folks can run a marathon at closer to the red line and are the same folks that would go no-where near a 20M build up race (esp 20 at MP).
IMO most folks on the 3:15 thread (or this thread) that dont run many miles per week, would simply be better served running more miles and doing more like 8 to 10 x 20M as endurance is probably the key limiter. Most folks here would also tell you to run 13M to 15M midweek too.
Keir.. I've been told by a coach that my conversion from short distances (up to half-mara) to the full marathon is pretty good on the evidence of the last 10 efforts. Nice to be good at something, but it still makes me want to improve the shorter stuff so I guess we're never happy! FTR I think circa 7-10 20 milers would be more like it, plus a regular 12-15 miler midweek.
Zatu.. excellent news, very pleased for you. Just don't let the binlids persuade you to kneel down just yet.
Mr Boat.. I agree with the majority. Caution is the best policy, particularly with a niggle that is affected by every step you run. I side with TR in that an annual break can be a good thing - 2-3 weeks with a few runs, no races, long runs or speedwork. It helps to re-charge the batteries after a long spell of training & racing.
Washing machine dept.. I bought one of those luminous bright orange Saucony night vision tops recently. The washing instructions state (I kid you not) 'wash with like colours'. WTF! Like I have a wardrobe full of orange suits just in case I get invited to a baywatch reunion. I guess I could wash it with TR's singlet if he's ever up this way. Nice shirt though.
4.2m on the treadie before work, 7m with the club tonight.
P.S.. xpost TR, great minds think alike!
Wardi: Thanks; I will knock the speedy stuff on the head for a few days, get some massage and ultrasound and see how it all is next week. Did steady 8 tonight with no problems.
ptb - could be consistent with tendonitis - as it warms up the gristle will break down to fluid. Some friction massage on the area could help.
Rich_W - 3:00:40 off of a top week of 25m? Blimey! Do you cross train too?
Brian - those recoveries sound a bit better, but still a touch session. A sharpener doesn't have to be that tough! How did it go for you?
Keir - I find the McMillan calculator more than reasonable (range seems to be double HM + 7-10mins), and if anything a little soft the closer you get to the sharper end. I don't think double HM + < 6mins would be that uncommon on here. As others have said though, mileage makes a big difference.
Cheers for all the comments. Don't worry. Even the xtraining will be rebuilt slowly.
I've found a very similar trend with the macmillan calculator. It's accurate for everything up to HM then goes out the window. I guess it's my lack of endurance work!
On the track again last night
Averaged 2:23 for 800s and 49s for 300s
4m recovery this morning
Scobos - I know, Really sorry and well out of character!
Keir, I find the opposite - based on 10k times McMillan gives me a marathon time 8-9 minutes slower than is actually the case. Although I think that says more about how rubbish my 10k speed is than anything else.
FWIW, there's more than one way of building endurance for marathons - with the odd exception my weekly mileage is around 40, but there's cycling on top of that which is great for endurance. Others find lots more running miles work for them, and don't see much benefit x-training unless it's because they're injured.
Zatu - excellent news, very pleased for you. I know you are targeting something later next year, but if I were you I wouldn't rule out a spring marathon. You fitness/speed will return quickly and if you try to run a marathon when you are only hitting almost 100% of your potential then you run the risk of breaking down before you get there. Bag a quick marathon even if it's not your long term goal time. People who strive for 100% sometimes don't get there, 97% is a lot easier to achieve and can be rewarding itself.
Hill reps last night, second time ever for me. I attempted to keep good form rather than speed.
CD - agreed, Gordo would tell you that the best place to build endurance is on your bike. But that needs backing up with enough impact miles to be able to run strong marathons. How much biking do you do on a typical week ? Weekday turbos ? and a weekend long ride (of how far typically) ?
wombled a few in my new scoobies, bit achey afterwards but I reckon I got away with that scare. Best part of a running week lost, but thats better than a big backward step. Back to striving for some consistent consistency.
Keir - Poor for me on the conversion. I should be much tighter 2 x HM + 16mins! I don't know if experience helps? I've only run 3 now. The conversion that I'm jealous of is that of RNM - he seems to consistently hit very low 2.40, very strong over the marathon. I also like how CD rocks up and does something really quick!
Zatu, really pleased your hearing what you want to hear, guess your enthuiasm is something to remember when I get attacked by the CNBA monster!
Who's there on sunday then?
Wardi? Brilly? Njords? RNM? Brian I know is not sure james is going to head over or not and I believe we'll have LS21 spectating (see if he can be my lucky supporter again)
CD - your HM to Mara conversion must be very tight then?
coro - not doing a spring mara is nothing to do with not wanting to do one unless 100% fit. I feel I need to work on my shorter distances to be able to hit the times I want over mara distance as my last conversion was very tight (double HM + 2:54), so once I am back in proper training my aim is to spend spring/summer doing my effort sessions across the 800m-LT pace ranges, before building back up for a mara (though hopefully I'll maintain a high mileage throughout). I'm tentatively considering a 10m/HM as my (late) spring target.
Waytogoyet wrote (see)
You and me both I've had attacks of the CNBA in the past, but at least I've got a crappy period (hopefully) behind me now to remind me to take my chances as they come, etc.
I'm going for an aquajog in a couple of hours (but only 30mins - start slowly)
Zatu, marathon PB is HM PB x2 + 7 minutes, so not especially tight. It's distances below 10 mile that I don't do myself justice, 10k pace is only around 20s a mile quicker than marathon pace.
TR, yes, you're right. It took me several years of running marathons poorly before I got one right, others with a better mileage base get it right sooner, if not first time. Biking right now isn't as much as I'd like, but I try & get a hard ride of a couple of hours at least most weekends, plus some weekday turbos. I used to ride to & from work more but I can't do that much now the kids have moved school.
Gobi, yes, Peter Wheddon's very good for his age, especially on the bike.