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Joyous news BEJ, I will raise a glass to the three of you tonight. Nice to hear some happy stuff after the sombre news I had to break at Xmas.
Best of luck to PP, SL & Marigold.
Top notch 10k Marders, mind boggling mileage for December too!
BR.. nearest 'good old days' stats I can bring to mind is from my hometown 10 mile race. At it's peak in the early 90's 160 runners broke 60 minutes out of about 800
Sorry to hear of ongoing woes for PP and SL. My niggly leg felt less than ideal when running yesterday but feels perfect today. Will see how it goes on run home later.
Sorry to hear your mileage was so limited by weather, Marders.
I am sure you will catch up.
Very interesting discussion re the 'old times', BR. I suspect you may be right that time was freer, but I also think folks just pushed harder and had a higher view of what was a 'good' time. (I have said before, sub 3 doesn't seem too tough for young fit men, but is the most aspirational thread here).
These are my annual mileages/mara times. The main point of interest I think is that the time hasn't really dropped off with reduced mileage:
2006: 2,555M (2:51 then 2:42)
2007: 3,004M (2:33 then 2:29)
2008: 3,238M (2:29)
2009: 1,817M (2:36, injured, had run a HM PB (68:48) in the build-up)
2010: 1,551M (2:33)
Obviously the last two years were supplemented with lots of other training, but shows it's not all about miles, and I reckon if you have a few solid years behind you, that endurance remains with you for quite a period of time.
Did half a track session slowly last night, then circuits. Legs feeling a bit better today, but still need to improve before county XC on Sunday, where I'd like to run reasonably well.
i'd reckon its more the hours and hours you put on the bike and in the pool that keeps your endurance up Padams!! impressive stats just the same!
yeah OS - what a pity Marders mileage was so impacted by the snow - he could have probably brought up the 1,000 miles in December if not for that!!
Apart from the crushing by England of Australia there's one hell of a tussle going on down south between the world No 1 and 2 teams. SA 118/5 so 116 runs ahead. Anything at 200+ is going to set up an amazing finale, and with Kallis there that's more than possible. Not often I get very excited by non-England games but this is a great battle.
Running back from school this afternoon. Think I've got everything ready. Slightly nervy about the first 5 miles as that's unknown territory but I've got head torch and will leave before it's dark so hopefully will all be ok!! Aiming to put 4m tempo into the 11.5miles but may be tricky until I get to the edge of Farnham. The North Downs Way in pitch dark isn't perfect for tempo running
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Hope you can get back to it quickly Marigold. Interesting specific plan.... looks kind of familiar.... Have you been taking notes on the darkside by any chance?
It is essentially what I have planned for Berlin too, so I'd be interested to see what kind of sessions you have planned. I've got some ideas for a few myself, but it's so far away for me I haven't put a massive amount of thought into it yet.
As a starter for 10 however, I am hoping that the approach will leave me fresh enough during specific phase to do a 'Khannouchi' -> a Khannouchi style long run (beginning miles at MP+15s (presumably eased down to that via 1-2m w/u), middle miles @ MP, then 3m working down towards 10k pace, finishing with a final 2m on track even faster.
lol marders. I'm being sensible. That kind of mileage is a little while off yet - I should break 1/3 of that this week hopefully. Very nice 10k!
Having been in that land of uncertainty for a big chunk of last year I really feel for you PP. It's not nice, so fingers crossed you can get a solution asap. Maybe worthwhile pushing for keyhole as some things just do not show up on mri scans?
piscator - (more than) threadworthy nuttiness
Ah JAP. Apologies, I did misunderstand. Thanks for clarifying.
BR - training in blocks seems more natural to me anyway. I've come around to the idea of making distinct differences between the phases so there will be periods where you push harder and longer, and there will be periods where you are going comparatively easier (as opposed to previously where I didn't really do cut-back weeks, etc).
Padams - I'd agree with the years of endurance behind you. I think having run for a few years already it will be much easier for me to get back to where I was compared to how long it took me to get there in the first place.
Anyone know how to put nicely formatted tables in here? Can I use good old html or is there some better way to go about these things?
I'll try this for starters aye...
hmm, didn't work when it came out on the forum but now that I edit it it shows as a table??
1 a 2 b
grr, I'll do it the old fashioned way for now...
Amazing progression from 2006-2007 Padams. What would you attribute it to? I do think you tri guys train very well, with enough variety to minimise injury, and build a more robust physique than us puny runners who have no upper body strength.
I keep only 'patchy' records, but I reckon on an average of 40mpw in 2010, with a handful of weeks >70. That got me times in 2010 of 29.24 for 5m, 59.07 for 10m, 79.38 for 1/2 and 174.08 for M. (The one I was most pleased with was 10m). I do feel I was in the best form I have ever had through the first 3 months or so of 2010, but didnt get enough out of it in terms of results. Life/work then got in the way a bit. Lets see what 2011 brings.
Year | Miles | Pace | 5k | HM | Mar | AvgKg | 0 Days | 0-5 | 5-10 | 10-15 | 15-20 | 20+
2007 | 1809 | 6:26 | na | 77:46 | 2:58 | na | 171 | 1 | 119 | 71 | 2 | 5
2008 | 4056 | 6:38 | 15:29 | 69:10 | 2:24 | 67.6 | 53 | 168 | 274 | 75 | 17 | 24
2009 | 4813 | 6:31 | 14:51 | 66:08 | 2:23 | 67.0 | 28 | 157 | 327 | 100 | 29 | 22
2010 | 5045 | 6:51 | 14:38 | 65:19 | 2:17 | 66.9 | 20 | 162 | 373 | 94 | 28 | 14
That's gotta turn out ugly but ya get that! So pretty similar to what others have posted up but I've added a few more columns on the end. My average weight for the year, the number of 0 days in the year which are obviously days when no running was done (rest, illness, injury - 2008/2009/2010 mainly injury) and I've also tallied up my runs that fit into each of the distance brackets. 5-10 milers were the big winner this year for me, probably because so much running was commuting to work which varied from just over 5 to just under 9 miles.
Seems I'm getting slower (in training) in my old age but not fatter, yet, luckily. If I can get my eating habits under control I'm sure I can easily beat my 66.9 average from last year too. Helps with the optimism that I'm currently in the 67.x range (so about 3-4 pounds over traditional racing weight).
My original target for the year was 5200 but that was binned after I lost too many miles in August/September. I was looking a long way off 5000 at the end of October but 2 decent months saw me right and December was a (tiny) bit of an OCD month as I attacked the 5000 barrier. End result for December was 527 miles @ 6:54 pace and amazingly for me, 0 races (though a couple I was going to do were called off). It was only slightly OCD as I did need some decent weeks in the bank since I've got a marathon in less than 6 weeks time!
I'm heading off to sunny Seville with a few others from these parts which should be interesting and fun. Just need to get some long runs in now as since Amsterdam in October I've only done an 18 in November and 2x21 in December, damn, wish I hadn't looked that up! Actually, I only really had a 26.2 and 2x21 going into Amsterdam and that turned out ok
To make up for it I’m contemplating 27M on Sunday but we'll see how it goes as going out Saturday night which won't help. Any low key marathon’s on this Sunday?
Plan for next 3 weeks is to cut down to around 100 miles for 2 weeks and then maybe 70ish so I can freshen up a bit for Brass Monkey in 3 weeks. After that I don't know, maybe I'll just copy what I did prior to the Dam but I'll be cutting back as much as required to feel super awake and not tired!Mr Boat - yep from Red GFA start, with plenty of the rabble off here apparently. By the looks of your training if I do end up going to the Red Lion, you'll be there before me, lol
Piscator - running up and down hotel corridors, bloody hell
Zattu - when would even consider doing any type of race again? I mean how long in terms of base work do you reckon you'll need before you can do any harder stuff? (No rush obviously)
Good run with the club last night, just under 10 miles, average pace 6.58. Fitness was pretty good on both the tough hills and I was up the top of the second harder one first with two others. Good pint in the pub after.
Marders - interesting stats. The average pace seems to be getting slower, presumably because you were running hard most of the time in 2007 and with the higher mileage that's not possible/sensible now.
OS - I only started running in the second half of 2005, so it was just the general progression of a new runner really, and I didn't get injured at all over that period (had been a rower so was pretty robust!). I was steadily increasing mileage (peak mileages for each marathon probably went something like 50, 60, 75, 90 over those 4 marathons).
Also the 2:51 was Boston, so a much tougher course. Had qualified 6 months earlier with a 2:58 at Chicago.
Very interesting marders -- and a clear demonstration that big miles at an easier pace (on average that is) can get you top banana results.
I've just taken delivery of a pair of XTalon 190s. The soles look just like the 212s which I've always loved for grip; the uppers are bright red (yay!) and feel like slippers. There is a little pressure towards the back of each arch I'm not so sure about, but hard to say yet as I've done no more than charge up and down 15m of work carpet (standard procedure in case of having to return new shoes).
Fascinating Marders. Thanks for sharing. the 77:46 vs 69:10 compared with 2:58 vs 2:24 progression over 1 year is remarkable, and suggests a lot of latent talent. And the OCD phenotype is much in evidence with your data management
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Was that 15 miles, Charlie, in a Piscator style, or 15 metres?
Hi,
Just thought I would join you bunch of keen enthusiasts in the build up to this years VLM.
Having read through there seems to be a lot of good advice floating about.
A bit about myself:
Im 23, been running since i was 20
I finished last years VLM in 2:54, my av weekly mileage was somewhere between 55-60mpw for the 12 weeks before and maxing at 80ish mpw, prior to taking on the challenge I always struggled with motivation so rarely did above 40mpw. Im hoping to go under 2:45 this year.
After last years VLM I managed to lower my HM time down to 1:18 in the GNR so from that I'd say Im pretty close to my goal in terms of potential and had a pretty good year last year.
marders - bloody hell, that's some analysis.
craig - welcome! 9/10 mins would be a nice chunk off in one year but you look well on course for 2:45 if you can keep it consistent. Good luck and hang around.
zaTTu - interested in what you're saying about keyhole, which I know very little about. Are you saying that it can be used to identify what's going on, rather than just going in to sort things out once a diagnosis has been made??
SL - thanks for the suggestion, but ultrasound was the first thing we tried before the x-ray and MRI. Nowt showing! Good luck getting back to it yourself.
craig - I think there's a fair range of thoughts on build-up here, including some shorter than that, but that tends to be some of the higher mileage folks that just need to do some fine tuning for the race. I've tended to put my marathon head on about 16 weeks out, although this is probably out of habit rather than anything else, i.e. first ever marathon training schedule used as a template and tweaked where necessary.
A lot will depend on what you're building up from, how many 20+ LRs you're planning on etc. The further you are from running a 20 miler comfortably the longer the build up will need to be. These days, the main reason I keep a spreadsheet for mara training is not so much to map out what I'm doing day to day (although I do this as well) but to plan when to fit in build up races, long runs and cut-back weeks. I would've thought 12 weeks plus a taper should be ample if you're doing reasonable mileage at the moment.
PP - sorry to hear about the MRI (missed it last time). Sounds like you're at a bit of a loose end as to where to go, but I hope you can get to the cause.
In my defence, I don't think running along corridors is that hard. It's a long corridor (around 130m) and there's another parallel one for variety, I don't think it's any more monotonous than a treadmill. I would have gone out, but we're on the outskirts of town and in the evening its pitch black with no streetlights and it doesn't feel safe. So I repeated the run tonight...OK enough excuses I'll get back in my straightjacket.
Piscator - you'll be entering Gobi's tunnel marathon next.
did 6 miles at easy/recovery heart rate on treadmill at lunch time - so kept HR at or below 135bpm (avg 133bpm). Pace came out at an abysmal 8:34m/m. Prior to Abingdon i was doing those at around 7m/m for same HR. By the end of the jog, in order to keep the HR below 135bpm, i had to drop the pace to almost 9:30m/m...
oh well. i was in similar shape this time last year actually.
lol piscator
PP - that is it in a nutshell. My keyhole wasn't to fix a specific problem as the mri didn't show what was causing the kneecap to maltrack (though it did show the ligament tear). It does seem to be the most common use for them - go in, take a look, if you find a problem fix it there and then. From what I can gather it is mainly used/provides best results with the 3 main joints in the body (knee, hip and shoulder). As my consultant put it to me, there are typically 3 scenarios:
1) find and fix a problem - pain disappears (though obviously no guarantees).
2) don't find a problem, but sometimes the process itself loosens off whatever was causing the pain - pain disappears.
3) no problem found, pain remains - no exercise for ~ 3 weeks.
RS - Reading HM (21st March) at the earliest. I'll start gently introducing some effort in the coming weeks, but will be probably be into February before I have established 2 sessions per week.
Nicely presented marders. Interesting to see the pace side of it as we spoke about before in practice! A 20s per mile average drop from '09-'10 but an impressive sweep of pbs across the board! Nice! What's the target for Seville?
selbs - a not too dissimilar story here today. Due to major sleep deprivation last night (#2 teething and #1 coming in and tapping me on the cheek @ 4:30 asking if he could get up (I say tapping, but he hasn't really mastered the gentle touch yet!!!) I basically didn't sleep and it cost me 40s per mile today compared to yesterday!
So my easy HR yielded 8:27m/m! Tbh though, I was so tired I couldn't give a toss!
However, having said that I did bag 15m, which is my longest run since the 13th of September, and there was some consolation in the form of 1) my being sensible enough to stick to HR rather than pace when knackered, & 2) minimal drift -> 1-2bpm which I am very pleased with as I would have expected horrendous drift after the last year! I'm sure the pace/HR relationship will be better tomorrow if I get some sleep tonight!
Zattu - good stuff, have always liked doing Reading it's a great race. Fleet for me this year as I've said previously. You seem to be coming along nicely now.
Selbs - you might have had some time out but you ran Abingdon the same day as I ran Amsterdam, less than 3 months ago (11 weeks ago from last Sunday). You won't have lost everything especially as you've run two consecutive marathon campaigns. If you build it back up again gradually I'm sure you can get back into decent shape. Obviously nearer London you can make a call on a target but I still think there's plenty of time to get sorted. Anyway you can pace me in my 2.50 - sub 2.55 effort if you want, haha
Phil P - sorry to read about your situtation, hope you find an answer.
7.7 miles for me today, easyish pace. Aiming for 55 ish this week with a 16 on Sunday. Trying not to do too much yet. 3-4 weeks of steady stuff before increasing it mileage wise.
selbs - I admire your patience working to HR. I must admit I struggle with this when I'm unfit and usually end up running just a bit slower than normal, convincing myself that I feel comfortable, but with HR about 10 beats too high. Oops!
zaTTu - cheers for the info. I don't know if there are any other wizzy scans the GP or fizz would have in mind but I guess this is worth throwing in the mix.
marders - I skimmed over your mention of Seville. Are you going to have it out with JC or do you plan on being too quick for him?
WIll put up some more details on my "super sessions" soon, most of which I'm nicking from Jack Daniel's Elite marathon plan
Padams - nice 2010 mileage ! SNAP !
marders - I liked the 34 min PB !
Selbs - keep Pugging away !
welcome to craid_d - listen to the runners on here, they'll help you out
first running commute since March 2009 (when my calf went pop and ruined by FLM build up), thought I'd better ease into doubles gently as I rarely even run on consecutive days, so I did it in an 8.5 and 5 stylie (with some 200s in the lido at lunch too).
Mr Boat -- yes the XTalon212s were super in snow and ice -- quite grippy on anything with a bit of give. I thought I'd have to resort to treadmills last year when it was icy, but with those I could just carry on training outside. Same again this year. However, really glassy ice can still be a problem, as I found out quite painfully over the holidays! Great shoes, and I'm hoping the 190s will be just as good (but a smidge lighter and much redder). Incidentally, I've done 600M in my 212s, and while the studs under the forefoot are noticeably worn now (hence I wanted some fresh ones for racing), I think that given the sparseness and stickiness of those studs they've held out very well. (Though I've tried to save them for off road or snow, mostly.)
OS -- 15metres (what a lightweight eh?), but I thought of pisc while doing it of course... big M for Miles for me, small for metres.