Sub 3

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Comments

  • TR - that's great, thank you very much indeed. The only thing I normally carry when running is my phone in case of a satellite problem, but I will slip this info into my shorts pocket on Sunday!

    KB - I'm a big(!) Adizero fan - I've yet to find a bad shoe in this range. I own and use

    Tempo - general road miles
    Adios - Marathon + tempo
    Mana - tempo (bad when wet) + some general miles
    XTII - Offroad
    RC - Half Marathon
    Pro - racing 10M or less

    There was a 2:16 marathon runner doing his tempo run around Victoria Park this lunchtime - I didn't try to keep up!

  • Mr BoatMr Boat ✭✭✭
    Coro: would you say Tempos would be better for general running than my Adios; re support?
  • Rest day for me today, I have started using my bike to get to and from work again after the snow has now cleared.

    I think cycling after a month or so off has caused my groin to tighten up. So I am hoping a days rest will do the trick.

    Tonight would have been a Hill session with my running club. We usually do a series of 3 Hills which make up 1 lap and keep a decent pace all the way through the session, so it becomes like a tempo session.

    I've been planning on dropping one of my club sessions for the duration of my marathon prep and replacing it with a longer tempo run. Only problem is I'm not sure whether to drop my hill session ona thursday or track work on a tuesday.

    Reading all the talk about trainers, I have been planning to buy a new pair of racers for the marathon but I have never been able to find a pair that suit me. I wear Nike zoom elite when training and have a pair of lunar elite also which I am not entirely happy with. Im told that I overpronate so usually look for a structured trainer, Im pretty light at about 10st and land on my forefoot. The only pair of Addidas trainers that I have worn in the past were Supernovas about 3 years ago which gave me blisters and pains in the arch of my foot. Is this a regular problem with Addidas or are the Adizeros completely different? Does anyone have any other recomendations?

     Thanks

  • MrB - yes, save the Adios for the big day or an improtant session. If I ran in them everyday (which I could quite happily do) then I wouldn't feel like I was in racing mode when I put them on!
  • Mr BoatMr Boat ✭✭✭
    Coro: thanks, I may well give this a try.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    TR - week will look something like:

    Mon - easy bike or run + swim
    Tues - running intervals + circuits
    Weds - spinning or hard ride + a few miles run afterwards
    Thurs - easy run + swim
    Fri - something easy
    Sat - a long ride or brick
    Sun - long run (+ easy bike maybe)

    plus a couple of lunchtime swims during the week (Weds + Fri maybe). That will give around 9 hours during the week and the weekend will increase to probably 7+ hours eventually (e.g. 5 hour ride/brick, 2 hour run).

  • After a 20.5 on Sunday and some speedwork on Tuesday, the legs did not like the 17 mile punishment I gave them this morning..... First 10 with TJQ at 9 min miles and then 7 miles at 6:50 average.... 52 miles in 5 days is really stretching me.Assume it's supposed to feel like this?
    In better news, only 3 days to Sitges Half where I am looking for a sub 1:25 with no taper.... but ideally better than this.

    Shoes... Mizuno Wave Riders all the way....

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Midland Runner - the hill is hard enough but you can hold pace(twice)

    Greenway is dead flat hardpack and you can fly along it.

    Nothing for me today as I have a cough
  • I have used the Adios and liked them. The asics gel tarther is a very similar shoe.

    I have a pair of the fastwitch but they are quite hard, and they are a pronation control shoe. Very flexible but I am not too sure about the midsole especially in the forefoot. The toe box is also too roomy for me.

     I currently alternate between:

    NikeLunaracer 2+ (hm + full distance race shoe...love them)

    Nike streak 3 (10k, hm, tri race shoe...super light, but they lack some internal support under the arch)

    Gel tarther (new green ones) training in these mostly.

    Nike Zoom waffle VII for cross country...will have my first race in them next Saturday.

    Asics ds-trainer 14 + 15's for long runs when I feel like a bit of support, especially if I am plodding around 8mpm pace. (I prefer the 14 version by a long shot and the 16 is even worse...too bulky)

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Coro – you’re welcome, I don’t want to log on here on Sunday to find out that you got lost.

    Padams – sounds good. I assume the weekday riding is Turbo based for now. I’ve listened to a few IM podcasts recently that mention always saving a little bit for your next session ! I think that penny has dropped a bit with me lately.

    Craig_d(avid ?) – that’s a lot of quality in one week. I cant remember what you posted as your recent background, but reading over a few other threads lately it never ceases to amaze me how some folks are stressing about when to do their tempo/reps/hills as well as the long run etc. In most cases (esp novices) its more about bagging endurance for marathons. Folks just need to run more and the best way to do that is to bag some easy miles rather than jam miles on top of all their other sessions. Esp on the slower tergat time threads too, I bet there’s not many folks stuck at 3:45 after a few campaigns of 60, 70 or 80 mpw.
  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    Trainers......

    Afizero Boston's for halfs or full (feel much softer/more comfortable than the Tempos which I ran London in last year)

    Long runs/standard runs - Asics Nimbus or Cumulus.

    Early run with a client this morning and leg weights and core session this afternoon. Quite enjoyed doing squats on the smith machine and some deadlifts. Some of the lads who use the gym regularly were amused to see me actually using some weights for once.

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Saw the GP this avo.  He seems to think a CT scan (the physio's next suggestion) won't show up anything the MRI didn't so he's referred me to an orthopaedic surgeon/hip specialist, in 2 weeks. Could be worse, he quoted me 6 weeks for a common old physio referral, so if a specialist can start getting somewhere I guess that will be progress.

    In the mean time I've christened my turbo trainer and was quite pleased to knock out a solid 60 mins @ 95-100rpm (or thereabouts). Very impressed with the machine, including the lack of noise.  It only started sounding like the washing machine on spin cycle when I gave it a bit of welly for 5 mins in the middle.  Legs/CV felt pleasantly OK but the crotch...!  Pins and needles set in after about 30 mins, then lots of squirming around.  Does this get any better?!

    Check out my home gym, complete with cunningly fashioned sweat-catcher.  image

    http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs778.ash1/166808_10150115357544595_684159594_7515955_2191347_n.jpg

  • MtRMtR ✭✭✭
    PP: Nice one - like the fan!. Mine is set up down in my turbo dungeon/cellar - I'll post a pic sometime. You might consider putting something under the front wheel to get a level position on the bike to ease the pain. And wouldn't a section of rubber backed carpet be of benefit to your downstairs neighbours?
  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    MtR - not a bad shout on the front wheel.  To be honest I took artistic licence with the photo, it was mounted on a thick-pile rug (where the photo's taken from, better view of the telly) and I'm fairly confident the result is sociable.  We'll see!
  • LS21LS21 ✭✭✭

    Hello all,

    Sorry to hear of Phil's ongoing niggles, and likewise SL. Hope you get sorted soon. Nice to see zaTTu coming back to it, and likewise good to see selbs starting again after a strange old month!

    Things are kind of ticking along here. Being the graceful aferleete I am I fell over between Xmas and New Year. No, not Stella-related, I was actually running! Stood on some ice, left leg went from under me and I landed on my left hip/knee very hard on some rocks - and it's my left ITB where I've got all my issues. Marvellous. So that set me back a bit as it tightened up really badly again. But I managed 6 last night and seen Physio again today and he seems quite pleased. So hoping to get out to try an 8 or 9 on Sunday and review from there.

    I have no plans yet re this year. May still do London but will just see. Obviously won't be flying round there due to major lack of prep, but half got a thought about running it to get some miles in and then having a crack at Amsterdam in the Autumn.

    Will probably just target pain-free running first though!

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    PP- indoors in front the TV is cheating, you could sit there for hours ! the numbness doesnt get much easier, I think its cos of the constant time in the same position, when you ride outside you habve to shift your weight around at times.

    LS21 - plenty of time to do VLM still, I'm only up to 12M myself.

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭

    coro - I like your idea of holding back a pair for special sessions and races. I tend to mix all mine up, but possibly because I haven't found one I'm completely comfortable racing in yet. I think the Adios are next on my list to try. Another to throw into the Adidas mix - the Aces. I'm a big fan of them.

    Padams - sounds like a nice big volume of training. Will you not even do a marathon as a training run as part of your build up?

    Craig_d - I thought the same as TR re: your quality. I've overdone it a bit in that respect in the past and I still had to look twice at yours. TR has hit the nail on the head.

    Ouch LS21. Hope it clears up soon. I'm avoiding spring maras completely as part of my comeback. You've been out for quite a while too, so might do you good to do the same unless you're sure you can avoid pushing it. Just my tuppence worth.

    Pleased to report my weekly 'off the HR leash' run was 8m with 6m @ 6:27m/m for a 173bpm avg this evening. That's basically mara HR, which means, pace-wise at least, I'm within a minute per mile of where I was at the start of April before whacking my knee. Endurance is another matter, but I'd warrant by the time the pace is back to where it was 9+ months ago the endurance side will have nearly caught up.

    I should add that hitting that HR has never felt so relaxed or comfortable. There may be something in this 'easy means easy' approach for me yet image

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    TT - I guess its cos folks see tempo/reps/hills etc in normal distance running schedules and magazines etc or do em on club nights, so they think that they stilll need to do em as well as the marathon long runs etc but for a low mileage person or novice to start doing all or some of that on top of the marathon miles (or intead of) is asking for tiredness/injury. If folks are low mileage or a novice then how fast they can run reps at counts for the square root of fck all when the wheels come off at 18M.

    i'm dissappointed that you've abandoned me on the 8 m/ms, but I'm sticking with it !
  • TR-  I did 3m@ 8mm today. Also did 3.25, 3.25, 3.22 image in the middle. Last one was blowing out my aris!

    TT- What was the drift on that run say 1st mile compared with last. Pleased watching the comeback and that is a solid effort so early on. Nice one.

    Need some new shoes as the DS Trainers I've been switching are both 500+ and my treddie Nike Triax are at  900+ and still feel comfy. I'll look at the Adios and the tempo's. It's been a while since I've worn adidas. What is the sizing like compared with asics?

  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    need to buy 1 size bigger Ode according to must folks on here!  i agree.

    ZaTTu - i'm 1.5minutes per mile behind where i was just in October.  guess thats a lot my own fault for too much "relaxation" over Nov/Dec along with not being able to exercise much.  but it feels a LONG way back!  nice 8m.

    just another treadmill 60 minutes for me.  7.5 miles so sticking with TR at the 8m/m's.

  • Odeon - Size 10 in Asics (nimbus and cumulus) translated to 10.5 in Adidas Tempos for me. And a great shoe they are too, I bought them specifically for longer tempo runs in the summer and they feel great for that. I actually ran Abingdon in them too in October and was pleased with them as a Marathon shoe. Haven't used them much in the past month or so though as the tread pattern on them is fairly flat/smooth so didn't feel too sensible on some of the ice etc.

    Should add, just checked my adidas Kanadias which I have for the rare occasions that I do anything that can honestly be described as trail running, and they're an 11 - so may be worth trying on adidas if you get the chance.

  • Should also say a more general hello to all, another newbie I'm afraid image

    I actually spent a lot of time reading this thread last Spring in the run-up to what ended up being a particularly unsuccessful London for me, but always enjoy the chat and depth of knowledge on here. I'm back now with a good for age place for London 2011 (thanks to Halstead 2010) and have since lost my sub-3 virginity (thanks to Abingdon 2010) and am looking forward to having a decent run in London this time round. With that in mind, I'm following the P&D 55-70 schedule in the hope of taking some more minutes off. And also just to see what progress following a proper schedule might be able to bring...

  • TR + ZaTTu -Thanks for your advice, thinking about what you have both said seems to ring true, I missed very little training last year through injury but I did miss a fair bit through getting run down with colds etc so maybe that was a result of the mileage and quality.

    I have often in the past struggled to train at what should supposedly be my steady pace when I have tried to during the week, Im guessing that I havent been giving myself enough time to recover from the quality sessions that I have been doing and as a result have not really been used to doing anything much more than 1 mile at MP before stopping for recovery on the track.

    Just before the snow set in I did a 6 week stint at 69mpw mostly at an easy pace with very little speedwork (only the hills sessions on a thursday in which I felt better in the last 2 weeks than I did in the first 4 weeks) to boost my endurance and aimed to run the North Easterns in December to test how i 'reacted' to it but unfortunately they were cancelled so I have no clear indication of how I fared as I did not train with a watch during this time.

    So I guess I'd have to ask how do people on this forum fit in training at MP when they have cut out or cut down on club training sessions or speedwork etc?

    Or alternatively how / if they trained at MP whilst building a solid base?

    p.s. Im not Craig David image

  • I managed completed an easy run home from work tonight but felt quite tired. The first week back at work combined with regular training is taking its toll. It feels good to be training every day though, and I am feeling good about my targets....will try and keep with the forum as it makes me feel that I am not alone when I am battling through some of the harder workouts. (hard days for me are normally recovery days where I had a hard day at work without the release of a speedy workout)

    The legs felt quite tired after last night's rewarding session and the energy levels are low, so did my 8 miles at 7:55 pace with ave heart rate 133.

    I have a pre-work swim scheduled with a cycle to work and back...no running tomorrow.

  • MtRMtR ✭✭✭
    CraigD: My approach in base phase is to have one faster session per week. But this tends to be 6-8 @ MP in a 10-12 mile run. All other runs are done at an easy pace. The odd club race or parkrun thrown into the mix for a bit of a blast.

    But I still train faster relative to my MP than some on here. I've been consciously trying to slow down a bit on easy runs. In 2008 I had a view that no mile should ever be slower than 8 minutes. I'm more relaxed about that now, but I still hate to see a mile slower than 8:30.

    Have to say though that to date, dropping club speedwork sessions and slowing down easy runs hasn't (yet) improved my marathon times!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    welcome 3HW

    Ode
    - but how far did you run in the 3:2Xs ?

    Selbs - good stuff - bllx to what the HRM says for now, just keep pugging away !

    CD - I dont really do any MP/tempo/reps as a rule although I did do a few runs with some attempted MP in them last yr, but I just end up running faster and faster and smacking the carp out of myself, cos i dont monitor pace - I just look at it afterwards. I was running 6 m/m in a 20M at times cos my prgogressive runs had got a bit too progressive, so I have the handbrake on now !

  • Dean NDean N ✭✭✭

    RS Salter

    I am looking for a lighter feeling marathon shoe to help me get a sub 3  and I see you use the Afizero bostons,

    I do all my running at the moment in Nimbus 11 which I really like , I have also got some Nimbus 12 ,s 

    which I dont like as much , feel like running in clogs , I wear orthodics with the nimbus , not sure if  Afizero

    Bostons  would be compatable with Orthodics, be interested what your thoughts are or anyone else , another shoe I was looking at is the Mizuno precision.

     

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭

    TR - agree. It's reading too much into things in isolation. I read an interview with Bill Adcocks on runnerslife where he said the first question he'd ask is not how people train now, but what they done to be able to train like they do now. Today was just my one run off the leash per week to maintain my sanity; I'll be back on the 8m/m+ train with you tomorrow image

    Cheers Ode. Not too bad all things considered. There was 7bpm between the first and last, but the last mile was also 22s quicker than the first effort one (slow start - 6:42 -> 6:20), which is about 6bpm in my money (I've noticed I normally lose/gain pretty much spot on 3.5s per bpm), so about 1bpm really (the other 4m in the middle were all pretty much the same). I've noticed a distinct lack of drift on some of my other runs too which has both pleased and (really, really) surprised me. I guess it bodes quite well for a decent bounceback. How are you doing?

    selbs - it'll come back in no time. Have faith image

    craig_d - I typically do all of my quality work alone. In my book, MP is allowable in base (still an aerobic pace if done at current abilities, rather than notional future target). I will be saving mine for the last 10 weeks before my next mara next time around though.

  • Gobi - Thanks for this. I'm trying to get my head around the course profile, but actually I don't live that far away, so I might just go check it out.

    Would you consider this a fast course?

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    MR - fast enough to run 2.40 on
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