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Zattu- or saggy on predicta txt! That's quality. Although obviously off where you were, it shows that the base has worked. Doing ok. Bit of consistency with a bit of quicker stuff and a day off each week. See how it works. If I feel in good nick at vlm , I'll go for it whereas last year I held off and messed up my A race. London is Gd for me, familiar, mile markers, nutrition etc. Not done well abroad so far so hoping that will change!
Reading back a couple of days:
Craig - very impressive and welcome!
MtR - hope you get better soon. Did you get my various communications? Very close to what my coach says about base building.
Joolska - sorry to hear that and hope you pick up soon.
Gobi - likewise
PP - all the best getting it sorted out. Like the turbo!!
LS21 - ouch. You're not having an easy time of it
ZaTTu you are really coming back at it hard and, sometimes, fast. I'm in awe of how quickly you've got to some serious distances.
Ran back from school yesterday. Turned out to be 10.5m to near home so added another 1.5m loop to bring up a 12 miler. So roughly 8 miles easy followed by 4m tempo at roughly 7mm, finishing in the low 6's for the last half mile. 7 miles easy today on the treadmilll and suddenly starting to feel fitter: 8mm pace stayed below135bpm which means it's starting to come together. Like ZaTTu I'm watching the HR on my easy runs.
Yesterday's run was fun on the North Downs Way as it became pitch black, raining and I'll need more than just the one head torch. At one point I ran straight into a barbed wire fence, but at least I now know the correct way! Felt very wild and lonesome until I dropped down to the edge of Farnham. Exhilirating! Won't be difficult to do a couple of them a week in preparation for Berlin, but one step at a time.
Various bits of kit have made their way into the RWH household thanks to Alton Sports, Sweatshop, Amazon and my wallet. Needed some upgrades of various things especially given the dark wild runs in the North Downs. So better tops, tights, gloves, lights.
As for shoes? Nike Pegasus 27. If it ain't broke ...
p.s. RunnersWorld mag on the doormat on my return. Always a nice moment!
Ode - I wear an Asics 11 1/2 and have gone a full size up for Adidas. I wore a 12 in London last year and they were a bit too tight at the end of the shoe which was noticeable by the state of my feet at the end of the mara. 12 1/2 defo feels a much better fit....fot what I like anyway.
3HW - hi mate, I remember you on here a while ago. I'm still relatively new on here I guess, but not a total rookie although don't know if there are categories though
Lots of helpful advice from people on here either way.
Dean - the Bostons have worked for me, they felt really comfortable in Amsterdam. I had one fairly sizeable abrasion on the outside of the left big toe but that was it really (shoe is still stained red!!). In terms of impact they felt fine. Curious about the Adios but not sure if I'm a bit heavy for those. Maybe go to a running shop and try some on, I guess your orthotics adds a different slant to it though. Nimbus are great for all my long runs, have found the Cumulus pretty good too.
RWH - nice running
Selbs - the comeback continues
Ode - I'd echo the (at least) half size up in Adidas. I'm a 10 in Asics, but have 3 pairs of Adizeros in either 10.5 or 11. Not sure why that is, but there we are!
zaTTu - yeah I tend to agree re the Spring Mara. BUT - I quite fancy just trotting round if I can and using London almost like a training run really. I'll just see how it goes. No pressure or need to decide for a fair while. I'll probably go down anyway cos I've paid for my accommodation now (Fri-Sun) - just need to decide whether I run or not. I hope to use it as a bit of a base to have a pop at a quickish Mara in the Autumn though.
MR - I did Stratford in 2010. It's an ok course, but certainly NOT flat. I quite like that really - breaks it up a bit, using slightly different muscles etc. The hills aren't bad at all - it's more rolling really, but it's not a pancake flat course. Oh and the 'big' hill you do twice has a much steeper descent the other side. It's nothing much to worry about at all.
On the Boston front. If you're wearing orthotics then I'd go for those rather than the Tempo, as the Tempo has some support in there I think.
The Boston aren't a 'flat' as such though - they weigh 274g, so the same as say an Asics DS Trainer (279g). The Adios are 210g for info.
I think I need to get out more.
RS - Cheers for the welcome. Yes I've dabbled on here a couple of times in the past but will aim to get more involved in this run up to VLM. Do you have a spring marathon on the cards?
Longish readback - not everything remembered but it's great to get a little perspective:
Wardi - all the best for tomorrow (if I've got the date right) - even if she lead a long full life I can't imagine that it's easy to say goodbye
Hilly - sounds like you had fun over Christmas - genuinely curious as to how you knew it was safe to run with pleurisy
Messi - don't go too far into hiding. Plenty of us will be interested to follow your progress
ZaTTu - Great to see you running again. Amazing to see how much of it you're managing. Was reading the Irish runner over Christmas and reading between the lines (quite a lot) I get the impression that the marathon mission thing might not be a once-off - could be something to aim for again in the future.
Annual Mileage posters - some seriously impressive numbers there - I only started taking a consistent log in June but don't reckon I went too far above 1,000 for the year which to build on TR's theme is not enough consistent consistency for a sub-3.
BEJ - Congratulations! Good luck on sleep!
Christmas was a mistake for us - to fit in all the family duties we drove from Bournemouth to North Wales (near Chester) to Dublin to Cork and back again with a flat battery in Dublin port a little bit of icing on the cake. We may do a stay at home Christmas next year or at most visit one place.
I also managed to pick up a little bit of man-flu which I haven't shaken yet. Anyone got any rules of thumb for when to start back again? My resting heart rate and temperature are back to normal and I've stopped feeling terrible but coughing still hurts and it doesn't take much exertion to cough. Wondering if I'm a bit of a wimp to be honest and should HTFU and JFDI. I'm not looking for advice but I'd be interested in other people's experiences.
On a separate note I sent my club entry off to London a couple of weeks before Christmas - should I expect to hear back from them soon or will that be it until much nearer the date?
Thanks Clearly, yes you do have the date right. Friday is the last good bye for the old dear. Never easy occasions but we do plan a good send off. Sorry to hear of yourself & others still suffering with xmas lurgy, swift recoveries to all. Re. the VLM entry - it may be a bit soon after New Year, you should get the 'congrats your in' magazine first then another one in late March with instructions.
LS21.. cripes, hope that isn't a set back.
More decent progress from Zattu noted.
Nice to see a few familiar fredders on the Brass Monkey entry list. Hope to meet some or all of you on the day. No sign of MP on there? Marders might be chasing the lead car on his own then.
9m inc 12 x 400m today. Will probably have an easy run early in the morning to clear my head in readiness.
ZaTTu - was thinking of doing a marathon as a training run in the build-up, but not made my mind up yet. If I do, it would probably be Halstead, and it wouldn't be flat out. I would hope to be able to run a 2:45 without compromising training before and after too much.
4k in the pool last night - basically half of one session then most of the next. Main set was 6x200s in each session - was going reasonably well, keeping up with a faster guy doing 2:50s in the second session, but then he picked up the pace on the last one and I died (had done nearly 4k by then though). I think he did sub-2:40 on that one, so I wouldn't have been close anyway!
Easy 5M into work this morning - very disappointed to see that my rucksack partially grated my sandwiches on the way!
Reading marders stats gave me a headache. Impressive stuff. You have to admire the dedication in logging everything in such detail over such a long period. I used to do that, but then every run became a race to beat previous times and it was all (in hindsight) a bit fast. I used to go out & try & do 20 miles quicker than my then MP every long run. Crazy. I've found the only way to force myself to do those runs at a slower pace is not to log it, sometimes not wearing a watch at all and not worrying about pace. Not a conscious effort at following any particular training schedule, but it seems to have worked so far...
Mind you, running's been a bit of a struggle this week. The ocassional uncomfortable feeling on the left side of my ribs after my fall last week became a more steady one after racing on sunday, so I suspect I've cracked something. Not a lot I can do about it though other than sleep on the other side. Not great during running, but turboing is fine and I'll try it out in the pool later.
As for shoes, Mizuno Precision for training, and their Wave Ronin for racing. Bright red, obviously.
Hope it goes OK today, wardi.
Oh, and welcome to the newcomers. Never mind shoes, have you all posted your washing machine details for consideration? Clearly - JFDI.
Wardi - best wishes for today
RWH - top midweek running there, be careful running fast on trails in the dark though
Padams - nice pace, and I was pleased with my recent 10x200 av 3:30 too !
8.5m rainy running commute bagged
RWH - since you run on the North Downs, have you considered entering this race, 33 miles from Farnham to Merstham on day 1, then back on day 2. However you can either do both days, or just one of them. If anything, it's a chance of a good long run on familiar terrain with regular food & drink stops. I did it last year, and can recommend it.
Wardi - all the best for today!
Ode - lol @ saggy
You sounds like you've got it nice and clearly mapped out. Too early to declare a VLM tergat (all being well of course)? Yeah, I think the mass of hours on the xtrainer during the early summer done more for me than I thought. Even though initial paces implied that it had done next to nothing, the speed at which the paces are picking up makes me think they must have maintained a decent level of fitness that just needs to be converted back to the impact of running.
Careful with the barbed wire RWH. Ouch!
Cheers for that info Clearly. What is the general reaction to the Marathon Mission squad over btw? From what I've seen/heard, for a lot of people the aim seems to be to make the squad, rather than to use it as a stepping stone, though hopefully it will pay dividends and produce a couple of good marathoners, but I'm not sure how much centralisation of approach/cohesion there is within it. Definitely interesting to know, but at this stage I'd be kind of expecting to have to push on solo to get anywhere anyway. Must have been a nightmare doing all that travelling with the way the weather was over?
LS21 - join the Berlin party?
Sounds like a good sensible plan Padams. I imagine you'd hardly break sweat for a 2:45.
Another ouch CD. Recover well.
Tight calves this morning, so swapped tomorrow's planned rest day with today and will bag a few easy miles tomorrow instead. Not surprising really that a 15m and an 8m with a bit of effort in it would create that result at this early stage. Pleased though that it was the calves rather than the knee which made the decision. Bodes well
That was a long read back and now i've no time to post!!
Wardi - hope to see you on 23rd, hope today goes ok.
Gobi - i could swear i saw some (good) training advice a few pages back from you ;¬)
Marders - great miles hope MP turns up at BM as it will make for a great race!!
TT - great to see you getting back into it, take it easy ;¬)
gotta go now, still doing a bit
You might need to change jobs Marigold as this former Postie has some (un)impressive stats!
70 stone
20000 calories a day
yearly care cost tax payers £100000 (topped £1million by 2009)
Your stalking abilities are slipping Wardi as I spot MP. Word on the street is that he saw that I'd entered and ran away to Kenya to avoid the confrontation though
. I spotted another handy runner who is one of Hobbling Harriers club mates so hopefully he's in ok shape as a bit of company would be nice, though sucking fumes from the lead car is just as nice
. I wonder if there's any performance enhancing properties to exhaust fumes as it's usually always the guys behind the lead car that are fast
.
Like TR, my morning run was rather moist, though I only managed 7.5. I probably got wetter underneath my very thin but waterproof jacket from sweat rather than rain.
12km XC tomorrow, should be fun. I think I'll be digging out my 15mm spikes as it's meant to rain a bit tomorrow.
Thanks for all the advice, I'm taking it all on board.
I have been looking at various marathon plans to get a general idea and they all seem to fit in with what is being said here. I'm sure a few months away from the running club won't do me any harm and another plus side is that I'll be saving 50p every tuesday.
A very cold cycle to work for me this morning, felt as if something might fall off. I knew it was going to be a cold one as soon as I tried to turn the taps on in the house only to find nothing came out of them, apparently there was a burst water pipe somewhere down the road.
I wouldn't have minded but the lock on the shed had frozen overnight meaning that 10 minutes were spent breathing onto the lock to try and defrost it. *must remember to fill the kettle up on a night time*
My groin is fine now, i think the rest and hot bath are just what it needed last night, shoud be fine for the North Easterns tomorrow.
I have been planning on racing Xc in my build up this year, but I have been unsure whether to race any more than that. I ran the SPEN 20 last year as a bit of a practice race. The race itself didn't exactly go to plan as I had went there with the aim of taking it easier than MP, but as soon as the gun the plan went out of the window and I started to slow down at 6 miles and in the final mile I died a death.
I think I definitely learned a few lessons in that race in regards to even pacing and more importantly eating a good breakfast before a race. However my training suffered for the next 2 weeks as I was recovering from it.
Do many people here like to run a 20mile race in their build up? or am I not alone in feeling that it was maybe a step too far in training?
Another long message - I'm sorry.
Padams - I too have suffered the sandwich grating issue. Very annoying in my shiny new North Face rucksack. Managed to grate the foil too! Tieing them in a plastic sandwich bag before packing does the trick now.
Craig_d - I have entered the Cranleigh 21M for this year's London build-up, quite a popular build-up race round my way. However, I've had a change of heart in the last couple of weeks and think I'll do the 15 miler (run at the same time) instead as a marathon pace effort with a WU/WD. For me, the confidence building effect of doing the 21-miler at MP would be massive but, from experience of some of my clubmates and what I've read on here, I do concede it would most likely leave me tired / jaded / injured (delete as applicable) for London.
It is only 4 weeks out from VLM though so perhaps a long race further out wouldn't be quite such an issue?...
Off to do an easy 5M on the treadmill shortly, in order to feel fresh for 16-miles tomorrow with 8@ MP, which will be first MP session of this campaign. Looking forward to it, not quite sure how it will go. Will likely be somewhere around 6:25-6:40 pace for the MP section. We'll see.
Wardi - hope today went ok, thoughts with you.
CW Hows your rival stalking software coming on? I've just seen the Brass Monkey entry list and far too many for me to stalk by hand.
Still doing a bit, even managed a mile at sub 8m/m
nice one Drifter. i didn't. but another 7 in the bank. 28 miles for the week, heading for most miles (if i get over 30...) since Oct 17!
Craig_D personally i woudln't want to race a 20 miler in marathon build up - definitely think it would compromise training - but some higher mileage types can probably handle it. For me, a half marathon, at marathon pace to a little bit faster, with a longish warm up and cool down to turn it into a long run is more useful. Or a full on half marathon race effort at some point maybe 6-8 weeks out to give a pointer to how fit you are/know what to aim for.
Wardi: hope all's gone as well as it can today.
craig: I've done a 20mi race 5 or 6 weeks out for the last 2 years but will be giving it a miss this year; partially because I know I put too much effort in when running with a number on and partially because I want to do Bath Half on the same day which will be an all out effort.
RHW: Wouldn't fancy running an unknown area in the pitch dark; it's bad enough down on the seafront at Bournemouth where there's an unlit section for just over 1 mile where I've nearly gone over on mini sand dunes many a time.
12 miles for me today, kind of progressive: 1st 6@ 7.12m/m av. 2nd 6@ 7.00m/m av. Very wet and quite windy albeit behind me for the last 6 ish. Easy 6 tomorrow in preparation for my first 20 of this campaign on Sunday.
I had no real idea if it was safe to run, I just went by how I felt after several days of not running. I admit my breathing was tight, but I ran very slowly and stopped when it felt right to do so. I guess I just listened to my body and didn't push beyond what felt comfortable. I did cough a lot afterwards, but in a way maybe that wasn't a bad thing as it was clearing the muck from my chest. Are you medically trained by any chance and going to tell me I was daft?
Craig / 3HW - I ran the Cranleigh 21 just 3 weeks out from the Paris marathon (2008), but neither was it an all-out race nor even a complete marathon pace (6:15/m) run. As 3HW will know, it's a single 9 mile lap followed by 2 x 6 mile laps. I ran the first 9 miles as a progressive run, ~7:00/m building to ~6:30/m, then hit 6:15/m for the final 12 miles. This felt relatively easy and gave me a lot of confidence about my target pace. More importantly it didn't seem to affect my remaining training during the taper period and I felt fully recovered for Paris.
I like the idea of entering a long race and using it as a genuine dress-rehearsal, i.e. carrying the right number of gels even if you don't use them all, wear your race shoes, etc, and running just a portion of it (10/12 miles) at MP, since 20 miles @ MP I think is too much, no matter how far away from race day. Arguably you could do a similar thing with a half marathon, and just make the warm-up longer, but I also like the atmosphere of a 20 miler because you can bet that a vast majority of the runners are specifically there to prepare for a marathon.
Craig / 3HW - I've also run the Cranleigh 21 several times before London (including 2008, hi PP!), sometimes just 3 weeks out. I always ran it at close to marathon pace, and felt fine a couple of days later. With hindsight that was a mistake - come London (or Boston in 2008) I'd be fine at that same pace for 20 miles or so, and struggle big time from there to the finish. 2007 is a particularly bad memory.
I'd like to say that dropping it was a conscious decision to improve my marathon performance based on a detailed analysis of schedules and training programmes, but actually it was more of a 'to hell with spending 3 months focussing on London, I'll just do the spring races I want to do and then see what happens in April' which happened to be duathlons rather than 20 mile road races.
Wardi- As others have said.
Had docs today and been referred for a scan just to make sure that there is nothing wrong. SLight puffiness and restricted movement in ankle over good one but all in all pretty good. He was from SOuth Africa, and had done the Up run in 75 in 8h04! 5 min exam and 20 min talk about training! Pleased that it looks like I/m not making it worse.
Surrey Champs tomorrow - looks like Lloyd Park is going to be at its muddy best...
Was there three or four years ago when it was so wet there was a woman who just couldn't get up the steep climb near the start. Just kept falling over. It was strangely comical to watch. I think she must have been wearing race flats.
Personally on the 20milers my thinking is along the same lines as selbs, in that the higher your mileage the less of a risk it is, but again wouldn't want to do one flat-out (though close to flat-out is fine in my book). Before Edinburgh '09 I ran 24 with 20 @ what turned out to be MP+10s 3 weeks out, having raced a 10k 6 days earlier and just jogged between the two. This was during a 7 week pre-taper period where I averaged 117mpw (IIRC), which is why I think it worked well for me as I bounced back quickly from the effort.
I am due a long fartlek run this weekend. My cycling buddies moved tomorrow's long ride to Sunday so I will do the following workout tomorrow morning:
6 miles easy + 5 miles: 1min @ 10k pace, 1min easy + 1 mile easy + 1 mile hard + 1 mile easy
Should total around 14-15 miles. I am quite fond of fartlek running!