Sub 3



  • Rs salter and Ls21

    Thanks for the shoe advise , done a bit of research re wearing with orthodics , looks like Ds Trainer may   suit orthodics so will go in running shop and try on . I did own a pair of ds trainers about 20 years ago before I wore orthodics , must of been one of the earlier versions ,

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    Ode - nice one on keeping the medical profession up to speed on training techniques

    I'm doing 20 at approx MP 6 weeks before VLM, I think its less dangerous for folks at my numpty level. I did 20 at MMH in 2:10:5X (which was approx MP) 6 weeks before FLM2008 and believed I was nailed on for a sub3, never having even run a marathon. On the day I went through 20M about 30 secs slower than on MMH day and ran strongly to the finish. The 20M build up made me believe that I "could".

    8.5M, 10x 200 in the lido and 6M closes the training for the day. Tomorrow is a bike day, so that gives me 12, 13.5 and 14.5M for my 3 running days (I also did 13 on Jan 1st) this week.

  • Yes to 'racing' 20 milers.  Wouldn't say racing flat out is possible if you don't ease off the training to do it, but can still run pretty hard.  Just don't do 3 on consecutive weekends like I did and run them all hard or you'll definitely leave your marathon performance behindimage
  • Padams/3HW: I used to wrap my sandwiches in foil but found some of it just disappeared into dust, which I presumably ingested (metal fatigue presumably). Wrapping them tightly in cling film is the way to go. On a similar note, I found a quantity of pasta and a dollop of sauce in a tupperware container would become an amazingly well-blended mix after 10+M in a rucksack...

    craig_d60: I ran a 20M leg of the Round Norfolk Relay 4 weeks before Abingdon last autumn. Hard to say whether it damaged my performance, but that is when my hip niggles started, which I'm just (I hope) getting over.

    Drifter>Hows your rival stalking software coming on?
    No progress really; it does work, but it's too slow to use for a big list (your browser will time out). If I had the time and inclination, I'd revamp it as a dynamic page that showed you progress as it worked through the list, instead of only returning results when it is finished. But for what it's worth, it's here:

    I was thinking about the Cambridge parkrun tomorrow as a consolation for messing up the date for the Cambs XC Champs I'll be missing on Sun, intended as a near-birthday treat. But now I've got a stiff back, something that haunts me from time to time, so even the parkrun may be denied me -- slow running seems if anything helpful to it, but fast running is uncomfortable. Ah well, maybe an LSR adventure instead.

  • Wardi - all best for today. Hope it has gone as well as can be expected.

    LS21 - that suggestion earlier of Berlin could be a good focus, no? 

    TR real quality runs there.

    DanA - Wow that looks a fab race. What great fun. Slight problem is that we have an Open Morning on 5th Feb so depends what time they start. I could go down there to come back to Farnham on the Sunday - would work well.

    Barbed wire cut is healing up nicely. Was quite funny at the time in a completely insane sort of way. You're right TR about the need to be careful, but it shouldn't happen again. Good job I was wearing some gear because of the driving rain. I did know this end of the route, just not the first 5 miles. Now I do image The Pilgrim's Way (North Downs Way) feels amazingly remote for Surrey, but fabulous running. In summer it is going to be heaven.

    7m in pissing rain this morning but felt good. New Ronhill jacket did a great job.

    5k Park Run for me tomorrow in Guildford. My first ever over that distance. No idea what to expect. Haven't lessened training this week and I have no intention of going off fast. Will do two or three miles beforehand to make up a reasonable session. Would like to hold back and then fire in a much quicker final mile. Still carrying quite a number of extra lbs of blubber so we'll see!

  • Gobi - Fast enough to run 2:35 image? I'd be happy sub 2:40 but i'd like to run under 6m/m. I ran 1:14 for a Hilly / undulating HM in May. Mcmillian makes that a 2:36, given that Shakespeare is only a bit hilly I'd like to crack 2:35, never raced 26.2 before though so its all a learning curve.

    I'm racing nearly every Sunday now until Mid April, hopefully this geared with a midweek LSR and 90 peak mileage will hopefully work well.
  • CW - nice lunch tips, noted. And enjoy the PR; I've been meaning to try Cambridge for a while as it would fit nicely with a weekend visit to see my folks (I grew up in Bury St Edmunds) but not got round to it yet. Be interested to hear what the course is like, the winning times there often seem to be not too shabby at all...

    RWH - first parkrun, excellent. I'd urge you to embrace the madness though and not worry too much about sensible pacing. Half the fun of a 5k is getting to 800m in and realizing you're going way to fast and the rest of the race is gonna hurt accordingly! I should probably add that my 5k PB is not very impressive... : )

    Enjoy it anyway. Just be conscious of how you're legs feel over the couple of days after as you get back into you're standard training. 5k pace can unearth unexpected niggles or leave things tightened up sometimes if it's not a pace you run regularly, which I guess it's not for a fair few of us.
  • Hilly wrote (see)
    Clearly wrote (see

    Hilly - sounds like you had fun over Christmas - genuinely curious as to how you knew it was safe to run with pleurisy

    I had no real idea if it was safe to run, I just went by how I felt after several days of not running.  I admit my breathing was tight, but I ran very slowly and stopped when it felt right to do so.  I guess I just listened to my body and didn't push beyond what felt comfortable.  I did cough a lot afterwards, but in a way maybe that wasn't a bad thing as it was clearing the muck from my chest.   Are you medically trained by any chance and going to tell me I was daft? image

    No medical training at all.  I've been coughing my guts up but started to feel like running again and was looking for a few pointers on when it is and isn't a good idea to run when you're not well.

  • 3HW>Be interested to hear what the course is like, the winning times there often seem to be not too shabby at all...
    (Actually I probably won't do it tomorrow, as my back is dodgy -- will see how it is in the morning though.) Anyway, the course is utterly flat. It has one short loop and two long ones. The short loop has some grass/mud which can be slippery. The long loops have a mixture of slightly rough stony bits and mud which is quick enough when dry, but there are quite a few sharp corners which are slippery when wet. Also you can get boxed in by slower runners on the second big loop. So it can be quick in dry weather, but not so good if the ground is wet -- which it will be tomorrow -- an ideal time to christen my new XTalon190's if my back is OK though!
  • CW hope your back is okay this morning and that you are able to do it.

    3HW I expect my pace will be several minutes slower than your alleged 'not very impressive' time!! I shall be too embarassed to post it up. What would be an unimpressive time for someone half way through a 6 month return to marathon racing and who is still carrying a bit of weight?! If you tell me then I'll know what not to fess up to later this morning! image

  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    post up the good with the bad RWH!!  i'll be posting >8m/m runs for a time to come i imagine!

    procastinating about getting out there at the moment....haven't run outside for quite some time in the cold.  i need to HTFU.

    Good luck weekend racers!

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    Selbs - If it's 15 weeks to London including this week, you could in theory do 5 weeks of base/getting fitness back and then a 10 week build up for VLM? I know you start to detrain after 10 days but I'm curious as to how long endurance lasts with respect to two marathon campaigns and lots of 20s etc.

    CW - any lake district trips planned? Not really the time of year for it I guess, lol I',m going up with the family my birthday weekend first weekend in Feb as we have a free stay at a lush cottage/house near Ambleside (dodgy heating at house last March + complaint = freebie) Be good for a change of scenery training wise too.

    3HW - yep I'm doing London mate. Haven't set a definite target yet, just going to see how training goes but 2.50-55 is what I'm looking at. 2.49.59 would be the perfect performance and day though. A lot will depened upon consistency and not getting injured, see what shape I am nearer the time and see how the weather is on the day. Just looking forward to enjoying it now though having got the sub 3image

    8.5 miles for me last night, went out in a t shirt as it had stopped totally drenched and got some nice nipple rash to boot. Still a decent hilly run. 15-16 miles planned tomorrow. 

  • Wardi - hope yesterday went ok

    3HW - the other half (or more) fun of a parkrun is spending 2.6m overtaking all the numpties who've set off too fast in the first 800mimage

    For me, pacing is still the key at 5k.  Nothing wrong with using them to experiment with different strategies.

  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    RS - i'm in japan snowboarding for 2.5 weeks (leave in 4) so wont quite work. if i can get up to doing one 20 by then i'll be happy. i always have this problem this time of year.  it's not a big deal really, it's my choice and friends/family time up the mountains is something i really love. (Not to mention it has dumped around 2 metres in the last 4 days of fresh powder where i am going!!! image)

    i'll try and find an autumn marathon if i can to have a good go at!  will be happy if i can drop some weight, not be injured, and get some more consistency in first 4-5 months of the year then kick on. if a fast marathon doesn't work out this year,no worries, there is always 2012!

  • Well I came 11th.

    No complaints there after a hard 55 mile week. Undulating course and it was blowing a hoolie. First mile was into the teeth of the wind and mostly uphill. So everyone's times suffered by at least a minute! In retrospect my 3 mile warmup beforehand wasn't a great idea. Definitely felt very heavy legged early on. Small pack headed off into the middle distance at the start. I thought I must be going slowly so sneeked a peak at the Garmin only to discover I was sub 6mm at that point, so I actually slowed down and settled into a pattern. Thought I wouldn't see any of that pack again, but during the third mile I ran down one of them and then caught another. Sat on his shoulder until the last 50 yards and we had a good tussle into the wind. All good experience.

    Anyway, it gives me a benchmark now and I haven't opened the valves on my HR like that for a long time: up to 175bpm. In future I'll add some easy miles after not before and I won't run in leggings again for a fast race - I found them annoying.

    Absolutely fantastic experience and great fun. Afterwards image.  Really nice people too - good conversations at the end and people seemed to take me seriously as a runner which was a good feeling. There were some good athletes ahead of me. It's gradually coming back, touch wood.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    RS - after a few previous campaigns the ability to shell peas comes back pretty quikc - only takes me a few 20s now. So I'm defo only doing about 7 weeks for VLM.

    RWH - great stuff. The main thing folks need to do during the campaign is check their ego at the door (as Gordo would say) , do the park runs/10ks etc and give em some welly, just dont taper for em, or get bent out of shame about the finish time. I have a 10k next weekend after nothing quicker than 8 m/m for months, so I guess I'm looking at 50 mins !

    2hrs of smacking the carp out of myself on the bike bagged for today, nice and mild here, shame about the wind and rain !

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

    Many thanks for all your good wishes.  Yesterday went as smoothly as these things can.  Nice to hear some of her old mates & relations telling me tales of how kind and considerate Mum was in her lifetime.  A melancholy day, but also uplifting in many ways.  I even got to bring home some of the left over post funeral buffet butties for today's tuck box . image   A few more hoops to jump through though - Dad is in care and deteriorating and we now need to sell the parent's homestead.  These things were sent to try us etc.

    Ode.. good to see some positive news.

    RWH.. nice effort in the 5k, glad you enjoyed it.

    TR.. gritty stuff on the bike.

    Marders.. apologies for me not spotting MP, my eyesight is obviously in line with old codger status.  BTW the BM course is a cracker for fast times if the conditions are good.  There is a short sharp railway bridge up & over at 1 & 11 miles, the rest of the course is as near to a snooker table as you will get.

    Managed 5m easy yesterday morning to clear my head, 25m bike commute today & a 5m club handicap race tomorrow.  I haven't raced for ages so this will be interesting. 

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    Selbs - yeah I'd forgotten about your Japan trip. All points well made, thats totally fair enough mate. To be fair it's not like you had a bad year last year with that 2.44, haha. I think I'm going to have a break from "marathoning" after London, well until next year anyway. Fancy doing other stuff over the summer other than knocking out 20s at the weekend but I'll still do some halfs maybe some 10ks and stuff I reckon.

    TR - I have to remind myself that I ran a marathon 3 months ago and that I'm coming off two consecutive campaigns of which the latter included 8 x20s. I guess I'm in unchartered territory with respect to this. I think the key will be not do too much too soon and save myself for training nearer to the race and the bloody race itself otherwise I might peak too soon or just get bored/drained.

    RWH - nice run and report

  • RS I am in the same boat having done Amsterdam. Feels better reading about 20 milers when I am heading out for a 14miler with the last half consisting of some 10k pace fartlek efforts.

    My buildup for London will see me starting with the 20 milers next month.

    Weekends are great for running in some day light!
  • Mr BoatMr Boat ✭✭✭
    RWH: nice park run there and your mileage is now at a good level. It really sounds like you may be in a good place by the autumn with your gradual comeback. Without having to read back which  marathon are you targetting? was it Berlin?
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    Wardi, glad the day went OK.

    Nice work on the bike TR.

    RWH nice 5km, and the time??

    Got out and did 13 miles. Longest run (by far...) since Abingdon.  Pace = Slow.  HR = High. 

  • RS: no Lakes trip planned for me, but have a great time! You're braver and better equipped than me if you do any high-level runs in Feb (crampons, anyone?), but for what its worth I have all the tracks from my Bob Graham Round recce outings here should anyone find them useful (I will if I ever do it for real).

    RWH: nicely parkran. I decided to run towards the parkrun (with my new fell shoes in the rucksack), and decide on the way whether my stiff back would be OK for racing. Which it was, though it feels more dodgy now. So overall my morning session looked like this:
         2.7M @ 7min/M warm-up in road shoes (with rucksack)
         5k @ 5:39/M (17:36) parkrun, came 1st, XTalon190s were perfect for the mud
         13.1M @ 7:47/M light run, a lot offroad to further try the new shoes (with rucksack)
    Actually I intended to do at least 14.5M after the race to get to >= 20M for the day, but I felt dreadfully weak, maybe underfuelled, and binned out with a total of 18.9M for the morning. There was no strong competition in the race so I didn't bother killing myself once I had a nice safe gap. Nice to win one as part of my pre-birthday weekend though! If I'd woken up earlier I'd have got a box of Roses or something to give the volunteers at the start -- it's the third time I've done a parkrun and I'm beginning to feel  a touch guilty about freeloading, as I've never marshalled or anything.

    TR -- indeed that's a great bike session. I think I'm often guilty of skimming over bike and swim reports without taking in how tough they are (esp swimming, which I know so little about).

  • Afternoon all, I hope you have a had a productive day 

     Iv'e just got back in the house from the North Eastern Championships. It was nice to finally race again, I was quite happy with my run and although I didnt feel particularly quick I felt strong and comfortable. Improving on last years run by 20 places. I have no idea of my time as I wasn't wearing a watch again, but I guess that doesn't really matter much in XC due to the ever changing courses. Im told that it was 12k today, but it didn't feel like it.

    Great effort today CharlieW

  • CW that is absolutely superb. Wow! What a performance. To do a 2m warmup then 17.36, come 1st and do a half-marathon at 7'47" on the way back is awesome. Fantastic!!

    Selbs after seeing Charlie's fantastic performance can I post my time after the next one when I should hopefully pb it? Deal?! I don't want to be ejected from the sub-3h thread as a fraud image  (For what it's worth BR guessed to within 12 secs!). Would be interested to have a go on a flat course actually.

    Mr Boat wrote (see)
    RWH: nice park run there and your mileage is now at a good level. It really sounds like you may be in a good place by the autumn with your gradual comeback. Without having to read back which  marathon are you targetting? was it Berlin?

    Mr Boat Berlin and London. Berlin is my big sub-3h attempt, with London originally just an attempt to secure GFA (3h15) and perhaps improve on my 3h11 in 2009. At the moment after today I'd say 3h15 is about right in terms of current fitness and condition. However, looking on the bright side there's still over 3 months until London so it might come out somewhere between 3 and 3h15 if I stay injury free and have a bit of luck. We'll see!!

    Isn't racing great fun?! image

  • CW - tasty.

    RWH - Nice race report - have I missed the time? 

    Racing is why I run.  Race for me today - tandem over North York Moors - You, and a partner, run about 20 miles on different routes, meet at a village hall, and then run together to the finish.  First 20 in 3:50, slow, but the underfoot conditions wre not good, I almost quit after 3 miles of slipping and sliding.  45 min wait, and then the last 8m in 90 mins. A total of 6hrs 13mins.  We didnt win funnily enough.  Av speed 11.45 min/mile.  Slow enough?  Only fell over twice which I think is quite good (Mrs Drifter managed 3 and shes a lot nearer the ground), and I have nearly all of my skin, which is even better.  Really enjoyed it
    Worked up a good thirst, and I'll be starting to rehydrate very soon as it is my birthday today, 47 ffs!
  • Drifter - he ran somewhere between 19:47 and 20:11 apparently...

    Charlie - good win and reasonable length cooldownimage

    Drifter - some experience that!  Best wishes.

    I managed a regualtion 15m with 10 tempo in the middle.  I was `joined' by LS21 for the middle few miles of the tempo section and he seemed to find it a lot easier than I did...image

  • MtRMtR ✭✭✭
    Drifter, CD, CW & RWH : Good to get a race under the belt. Nice win CW.

    Selbs: Nice to see you back in some sort of groove.

    TR: Good training.

    Wardi: Glad that yesterday wasn't too awful.

    I had my first post-illness run today. Took it very easily, running entirely by heart rate. Aim was to keep it under 134 bpm all the way. Let it slip a little on the slope back up to the house, but 6.5 miles @ 127bpm was job done. 7:53 pace and 1001 beats per mile were a surprising bonus. Long(ish) run planned for tomorrow morning.
  • Great battle today with CL in the Surrey Champs.  I could see him ahead for the first 2 laps and then caught up and overtook him on the 3rd (and heckled him a bit!), but he fought back well and finished very strongly not far ahead of me.

    Not seen the results but felt like a good race - very strong on the final lap in particular making up quite a few places, which is always a good feeling.

  • Recovering from a 23 mile run , felt ok whilst running but a bit tired now,  think I have overdone it a bit this week , sunday was 18 mile at 8mm  , tue 10 mile at just under mp 6.45mm , wed 6 recovery , thurs 12 mile tempo and today 23 at 8.10 mm , far more milage and effort than previous marathons , legs are feeling very tired so will have 2 days off now  and take it easy next week ,

    I am very worried about picking up an injury , 8 weeks tomorrow is the barca marathon , dont think I have ever done more than 46 miles before in training so this is new territory for me , take my hat off  to you guys out there knocking out 60 or 70 miles per week !

  • Tmap nice one!

    Craig same goes: excellent run by the sound of it

    Dean great mileage! That's excellent.

    BR top work. Great to see you coming back. Thought you seemed strong last Sunday actually. When you bounded off saying you were going to put in a bit of marathon pace do you realise you were near 6mm?

    Drifter what a cracker, almost literally given the slipping, but sounds like a fabulous run. Huge effort. I've come late to the racing but have really enjoyed my last two.

    MtR that sounds a good one. I'm running easy runs at a similar bpm to pace now. Didn't realise you had been under the weather. Sorry to keep asking but did you ever get my email back to you or was the info no use? I think they are starting to sort things. Accountant has been in, Valuation this coming week, then visit to family Solicitor. The key is that she needs to be totally above board, which is very much her intention.

    What scares me slightly re the time (yes re BR) is that in summer 2009 during that mad phase I was running 20 milers with the final 5 miles quicker than today's 5k. Still, I know it is coming back. 4 weeks ago I'd have been at least another minute slower than today. Key is to think of the whole picture and build carefully. And in my defence that really wasn't flat today, and the wind was tough. Guy in front said he was a minute down on normal with the wind. Do I sound defensive? Lol!!

     p.s. by the way everyone: mild weather for the next week.

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