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Had my head down working hard for the last 6 weeks or so and not had time to join in.
I notice that I am out of the relegation zone in DNs league table for 2006 marathon times and that without racing!
Had a niggling hip injury which has forced me on to the bike - just not the same - sorry CM!
Back up to regulation mileage and still hopeful of being able to go sub 3 at Cardiff. I notice the field got a lot bigger too - still think DN is missing a trick here! No doubt I'll get a response to that ;-)
I did the Leafield 10 mile last Saturday - undulating my a**e. Got there and asked one of the stewards if he was familiar with the course (1st year of event) and he said yes and carried on to tell me that the 1.5 mile downhill start was the last 1.5 mile of the race in reverse, not to mention the hills in between. Finished in 63.08, which pleased me with the recent injury.
JEJ, I notice you are down for the Vegas marathon in December - I am there tomorrow so will do some research for you!!
Anyone doing Lake Vyrnwy in preparation for Cardiff? Miles away but I thought I'd keep the campaign all Welsh.
Jej, quick Q for you. If you could only run 4 times per week, but were also cycling, say 100mpw-150mpw, what runs would you do to try and stay in bestest tip top marafun shape that you can ?
CM - for a marathon, you say, in which case they would be:
1) 60 mins inc 45min Kenyan hills or long reps like 5-6 x 2km or 3-4 x 2 miles @ 10km to 10M pace, short recoveries. I'd change this to something a bit shorter and sharper from 2 months out, like 6 or 7 x 1km @ 5km pace.
2) 60 min steady (to work in around harder cycling sessions)
3) 90 mins inc 60 mins tempo (within 30s of MP)
4) 2 to 2.5hr steady
pyramid with long recoveries
Target was 45 secs per 200 over 400s and above which turned out to be very easy and therefore I went a little quicker.
200 33.6
400 1.22.8 (I was backing off)
600 2.07.1 "
800 2.52.7 "
600 2.08.5 "
400 1.19.4 (decided to run at 40 secs per 200 and it was almost spot on)
200 31.1 (this was flat out)
Feel good and with Yateley 10K tomorrow I will be hoping to go sub 37
Did a couple of miles as warm up and warm down as well
So overall I'd say that I haven't lost too much of my speed and gained a lot of stamina.
HOWEVER, the only thing I'd say is that I was/am a prime candidate for Hadd, given these pbs:
5k: 16.09
10k: 35.30
10m: 59:15
HM: 81:06
Mara: 3.08 (!!)
Ok - Hadd stuff over.
Currently v. brassed of as I managed to do something to my calf during an 8-miler yesterday. Think it's only a slight strain and have been icing it today but was depressed to read on the web that even a slight strain needs to be rested for 3 weeks - anyone got any experience in this area?
It's not especially painful - it just feels like permanent cramp high up on the back of my calf.
The 60 minute run is really factored in as a recovery run / aerobic endurance which may coincide with a tough cycling day. Given sufficient background, then it's probably fine to add an extra 15-30 minutes if you're feeling good - as long as it won't leave you short for your next session.
The other 60 min rep / hill session is more about the reps / hills than the 60 mins. Don't see any problem with padding out the warm up/down with an extra 10 or 15 very easy mins.
On the other hand, perhaps you'd benefit from the extra 30 mins sleep / recovery... I'd go by feel rather than scheduling the extra.
Have you ever heard of Stephen Bayliss? Pretty sure I knew him in my swimming days, but it may have been a namesake. Anyway, he used to blog his IM training online which could be worth a google.
Thanks for your thoughts and tips guys. It's good to hear that people have felt the benefit of the Hadd/Gratton approach (as JEJ says there are similarities between the two).
Last night I ran my first intentional running @ wombling pace (for me 140-145bpm), and it felt really good and easy. Was surprised to the see that even at this pace, the mm touched 6:5x on the odd occasion. The 6 miles though did average out at approx 7:28.
Will take JEJ's advice and look at introducing Kenyan hills, and once I'm knocking out regular mileage of say 60 miles a week, I will then look at one "nads out" run every week (if it is allowed). For now though, slow steady milage is going to be the order of the day!
TBSIARF
01 2006 Apr 2:44:20 London JEJ
02 2006 Apr 2:44:25 London CY
03 2006 Apr 2:46:46 Paris Running Bhoy
04 2006 Apr 2:48:43 London B&R (F)
05 2006 Apr 2:52:33 London davidt
06 2006 Apr 2:52:38 London nigelj
07 2006 Apr 2:54:33 London Tmap
08 2006 Apr 2:55:23 London OuchOuch
09 2005 Oct 2:55:51 Cardiff CRAB
10 2006 Apr 2:56:05 London batfink
11 2006 Apr 2:56:06 London hilly (F)
12 2006 Apr 2:56:24 London Gold Rush
13 2006 Apr 2:56:36 London OMFA
14 2005 Dec 2:58:18 Luton Cartman
15 2006 Apr 2:58:44 London Mrs Tricks (F)
16 2006 Apr 2:58:49 London Vassy
17 2006 Apr 2:59:10 London ScottyB
18 2006 Apr 2:59:36 London Jason Harris 1
19 2005 Oct 3:01:54 Cardiff Dull Napoleon
20 2006 Jun 3.02.01 Edinburgh Dan A
21 2006 Apr 3:03:09 London Bubblecop
22 2006 May 3:04:18 Halstead That Boy Sure Is A Running Fool
23 2006 May 3:06:41 Belfast Scott Martin
24 2006 Apr 3:06:44 London NL
25 2006 Apr 3:06:51 London nichs2
26 2005 Oct 3:07:29 Abingdon Gobi
27 2006 Jun 3:07:47 Edinburgh goals
28 2006 Jun 3:08:24 Edinburgh Andrew Yates 4
29 2006 May 3:08:42 Vienna Aitch S (F)
30 2006 Apr 3:11:15 London Blisters
31 2006 Apr 3:12:47 London NDOW
32 2006 Apr 3:15:01 London Impossible is Nothing
33 2006 Apr 3:16:31 Rotterdam nrg-b
34 2006 Jun 3:19:52 Edinburgh Odeon1085
Popped on the positions, purely for motivational purposes.
NDOW No regrets abouts Cardiff, especially pleased now as Abingdon has just sold out. Great time for Leafield. Was mulling over doing it myself, but have switched to the closer Harlow 10 next weekend. Will run it if the weather conditions are suitable. Currently a 50/50 shout. Enjoy LV.
Now covered 51 miles in 3 days for this week. Budget 81 miles with rest on Sat pre Harlow.
Work very busy at the moment, and vacation next week, so you'll not see much of me now until mid Aug.
Stay cool dudes.
Dull
Gobi et al (Who's Al?) good luck at Yateley tonight.
Off to lose my shirt at Goodwood.
cheers mate
have heard of bayliss, a very good triathlete, don't know much more than that, tend not to follow that type of thing.
re: the extra miles, I'll see how it goes, but an extra 5-7 mpw can have a decent influence on efficiency particuarly around the lowly 50 mpw range
speaking of which I wombled 10.4 miles last night and just crepted in under 8 mins/mile. Bloody depressing. hope it picks up soon.
on run 3), when you say within in 30s of MP, I take it you mean MP to MP+30 secs.
I'm gonna fall off that table soon
undulating but my times are a little depressing. still, i shall muster on.
Regards
TBSIARF
how do you measure your routes ? Personally I think a sub 7:30 75% pace is bloody good and tantamount to a sub 2:50 marathon if you get the rest of the training right..
Routes are measured with Timex IM GPS watch gizmo. If you think the pace is good I will take your word for it as I am very new to training via heart rate/hadd. Didn't want to show my ignorance but perhaps I did? I am the running fool after all!
What measurement do you use to say a "sub 7:30 75% pace is bloody good and tantamount to a sub 2:50 marathon". Or is this just from personal experience? I hope you are right of course. Todays run was anywhere near as succesful though.
TBSIARF
but if you can run sub 7:30 @ 75% and need 6:30 for 2:50, then thats 1 min/mile for 12%HR difference (assuming you can hold at least 87%HR+drift for the 26.2, which takes a lot of work !)
so thats 5 secs/mile/%HR .. try a run @160 HR and see what pace you get, and work out the pace difference from 145 and estimate pace increase for %HR difference, I think it'll be pretty close to 5..
anyway you have already shown you can knock out 6:20's @ 170 HR, so the evidence is already there ...
Thank you for the explanation and I will now look closely at percentages at different levels of effort. I am going to continue the Hadd approach which at present is a matter of building nice, easy miles and see how I go. In 6 weeks time I hope to see the first signs of improvement in terms of pace against heart bpm. Should be interesting.
Race report for Yateley 10K
3.31.2 To fast
3.47.6 Calmer
3.54 Concerned
3.21.8 Downhill
3.56.5 Relaxed as I had time to play with
3.33.4 Kicked as always and felt strong
3.34.9 Headwind but running well now
3.56.1 Must be long I felt great
3.43 Breathing hard
3.26.4 has a climb I used everything I had left.
result 36:45
Come on :¬)
I took the gamble and attempted to hang on to a few guys who I know are faster than me. Scared myself in the first K and then calmed down. At 3K I was glad of the down as I was concerned I had gone to hard to soon but a quick and easy downhill K calmed me down. I was passed by 2 guys here and it was the last time that happened. A steady 5th K got me to halfway and a drink in 18:31(13 seconds faster than ever before) and I could see I was catching Neville (from Reading Roadrunners). I always kick hard at this point and ran 7.08 for the next 2Ks and got past one lad who passed me earlier. He tried to tuck in for protection from the wind but I dropped him by 7K. Quick sponge and head down(K8 is long)through 8K and feeling strong(29.35 a PB) I kicked for home here and was after Neville big time.Charged up FETCH MOUNTAIN grabbed a water and passed another person. Turned at the roundabout and passed the second placed Lady and 2 lads and I had Neville by 9K who gave me a quick shout of encouragement. I charged up the hill and closed on the 2 people in front not quite catching them but a 3.26.4 K and the PB was mine. Second half in 18:14 and faster than my 5K PB was in January.
As you can tell I'm very happy :¬)
Well done UG. Nice negative split too.
Conditions were pretty good even though there was a wind.
Went off with the 2nd or 3rd lead group and saw the 1st guy just sprint off into the distance following the lead car. He went through 1st k in about 2.55 which isn't bad as some of it was uphill.
1k 3.20.9
2k 3.35.0
3k 3.42.6
4k 3.25.5 (Got bad stitch and lost about 10secs for stopping as normally 3.15 for this downhill k. Think I had too much water today)
5k 3.50.9 Still had a bit of stitch but was able to get through it. 5k in 17.54
6k&7k 6.58.2 Didn't see the 6k marker. Starting to feel a bit better as normally feel quite bad on the long stretch.
8k 3.57.8 This is a fairly slow k and there is an uphill gradient here.
9k 3.47.8 tried to dig in a bit but as there was nobody behind me for about 100m I was safe.
10k 3.33.9 Not as fast as Gobi but there was nobody sprinting me to the line.
36.12 Should have put the extra effort to get the sub 36 but think the stitch cost me that.
JH1 Respectable.
JH1 good run, took me 5 yateleys to find the 6K marker. On the long road just before the first left turn road there are 2 trees on the left side the marker is just past them.
CRaB
I think so, possibly I am also learning to push myself harder.
The Uk 50K champs are in 10 days so I will have a good idea what shape I really am in over distance.
My running is official sh!te. My 82% pace is not far off where my bloomin 75% pace was 6 months ago. Am hoping it just cos I'm recovering from the IM.
Gobi, it'll be interesting to see what impact all that "poncing" around has on your longer times.
Interesting to look at the splits for both of you. JH1 opened up a 36 second gap after just 3k. Despite his stitch at 4k, by 7k the gap was 48 secs, this closed to just 33 secs by the finish.
Could JH1 run faster if he used Gobi's pacing, or could Gobi run faster if ihe took it out hard from the start likeJH1?
I suspect the latter.
Well done U.G and JH1,great running.
I wish i could say the same for myself......
I got hit with the dreaded stitch again at around the 5k mark, reducing me to a shuffle.I lost about a minute and a half and very nearly walked off the course.It totally destroyed me mentally as all these runners came flying past. I managed to start jogging again trying desperately to shift the stitch.Eventually it eased and i was able to start picking runners off.
It's very hard to keep the motivation when you know its all gone pear-shaped, by now i was just hoping for a sub 40.
The stitch reared its ugly head again around 8k and cost me a few more seconds, but i was still picking people off and finished strongly in 39.17 exactly 2 mins slower than the time from June's race.
I need to find out why this is happening so frequently now, it is always the r/h/s.
Could it be that I'm drinking too much fluid? or that I'm not doing enough speedwork?
Any other theories