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  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    That sounds a speedy and good for the soul ride Padams.  My pooch went out with my twice yesterday, an inconclusive 2 miles, ended whilst she chased a rabbit and a 6m faster session, which she ran with me for a while and then sat in the middle of the field as I ran around and around.  More good than bad though.
    40 miles for last week, possibly a bit much so a running rest day today with a possible swim and cycle ride for later and weight down to 10st 8!!  Race time now confirmed for 9.30 am and weather looking good at 15C and dry/ no sun.
    LMH - A bigger event sounds the better option - with more people running your pace.
  • CharlieWCharlieW ✭✭✭
    Padams -- impressive 10K there.

    TT -- do you need a coach, after all these long years of experience? Must suit you I guess, but I've always preferred to figure out my own training.

    LMH -- nice to hear you're getting right over the injury, sorry your 10K was disappointing though.

    Wardi -- that all sounds very pleasing!

    I'm back in taper mode now for the Meridian Ultra 100K on Sunday (Race Jase also doing it). Not that I've got a clue how to taper for 100K, but I'll prepare for it much like a marathon. I've had a reduced-carb diet for the past week or so, but with probably too much compensatory peanut butter. Fat loading may be a good idea, but _getting_ fat probably isn't... I did quite a hard 12M run on Sat, an easier 10.5M yesterday, day off today, and then my usual little tune-ups I guess (but not pushing too hard, and maybe making them a little longer).
  • OuchOuch - I think it's the extra time that will do me the most good to be honest. If we could do Yeovil in a day I'd still like to go just to enjoy it but with the long drive, overnight stay, getting the dog looked after etc it becomes a big deal.

    No such thing as too much peanut butter Charlie!

    Which reminds me OuchOuch/Joe - I have found that B&M Homebargains sell the peanut butter M&Ms - this may not be a good discovery!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    LMH - sounds like you've reached a decision, but fwiw I was going to say the same - too much to lose by pushing on, especially when your body has had a battering over the last few months.

    Wardi - I've got a few races, but Berlin at the end of September is the main one. Nice on the mileage and good on the iron levels.

    CW - left to my own devices I tend to overdo the mileage. I worked out years ago that I do better off of more moderate, quicker, mileage (that's what my 3 x sub-2:30s came off of), but always struggle not to blow myself out of the water by doing too much. Plus, as TR remarked once upon a time, I also do better if I don't overthink it and just run. A coach who thinks that more moderate mileage will suit me, and who sets the workouts (which means I don't need to think, just do) ticks both of those boxes.
    Finally, I know I need to do something different to kick on (and get my mojo back), and she has some good ideas (plus that comes back to me not overthinking training - if I'm that bad doing the stuff I normally do imagine what I'd be like with trying to work out something new).
    Good luck for Sunday!!
  • Thanks TT - I'm nearly at peace with the decision though haven't cancelled the room yet...
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    LMH: I'd favour having the break from racing, but that's because I know that's what I'd want...
    Quiet weekend running for me: 11M 'long' run on Saturday and then off to a wedding yesterday.  Much food and booze, but very little otherwise!  7M with a few 2 minute chunks at about marathon pace this morning to very gently ease the legs back into running below 7m/m.
  • I'd actually like to do the race Joolska - it's the fact that it's so far away that makes it difficult to justify if I don't think I can perform.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Race JaseRace Jase ✭✭✭

    Hi Wardi, yes I am running in Berlin and also the Solidarity Marathon in Gdansk five weeks before.

    I frequently lurk around these parts to keep up to speed with what's going on.

    As Charlie says I am running the 100k on Sunday which will be my first ultra so it's a bit of an unknown although I am hopeful that it will suit me. I managed to get in a 41 miler at 6:12 per mile the week after London without too many issues apart from a bit of DOMs. Mileage has been good so as long as I get my fuelling right and the bod holds up OK I'm confident of a decent debut.

    TT - interesting approach and I hope it pays dividends for you. One thing I will say is that this sort of approach just didn't work for me. I thrive on higher mileage. The shorter interval type stuff tends to leave me too tired to get in good volume and as a result my engine suffers, which is my strength.

  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    Weekend racing list (so far)

    100K
    Race Jase
    CW

    Exeter fun run
    OuchOuch
  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭
    I managed to get in a 41 miler at 6:12 per mile the week after London

    Anywhere else, that sentence might provoke some sort of reaction!!
  • LS21LS21 ✭✭✭
    Morning all,

    LMH -
    glad to hear the knee seems to be getting better. Not sure what to advise re the Marathon, as I'm the world's worst for travelling miles to chase a time and then running like a goon. Good luck re whatever you decide.

    TT - interesting stuff re your change of club/coach/focus - hopefully it works out for you. I can see your logic re a coach too. Left to my own devices I seem to get too hung up on total mileage rather than listening to my body a bit more. Possibly explains my current injury, where I just trained on regardless through a increasingly troublesome niggle until it finally went pop.

    padams
    - cracking 10k! Always impressed at the times you can churn out, and always so understated too!

    wardi - nice to see you getting back into it. Nice work re the lead bike. I hope you did a wheelie as you crossed the line.

    RJ - good luck at the weekend. I properly laughed with your casual '41 miles at 6'12s' comment!! Hahaha - animal!

    Hope CW is recovering well. I think you should get a coach too, just for the comedy value. They'd have torn their hair out within 3 days of working with you!!

    And good luck to OO too - hope you have a good one!

    Things a bit 'blah' here. Doing my back exercises religiously, and although I have a bit more range of movement in my leg the pain hasn't gone away at all. Not even sightly in fact. I tried a short jog to the car yesterday and had instant pain all the way down the back of my hammy, but perhaps more worryingly, really bad nerve pain down both the outside and inside of my leg. So I really don't know. Already forked out £150+ seeing various medical professionals, but I'm not really progressed at all since the day after VLM. I'd knocked the elliptical on the head to see if total rest helped too - 10 days of zero activity and nothing - no improvement at all. So genuinely not sure what to do now. Just a case of having to be more patient I suppose, but I still don't feel any more clued up as to what the actual problem is. Hey ho.


  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    DanA - Haha.   I was and am still processing its striking significance.
    LS21 -  Sorry to hear of your current woes. Lets hope mother nature does her magic.  Thanks too for the good wishes.
  • CharlieWCharlieW ✭✭✭
    TT/LS -- ha you're right, having a coach would drive me as mad as TT finds it useful (and why not). Maybe that's why I only did 2 club track sessions when I joined in 2010 and never since...

    LS -- what a complete bu99er.  Don't know if it helped, but one of the things I did when I had piriformis-related sciatica was some exercises that were supposed to help the nerve move against/through the muscle if had got "stuck".

    RJ -- that was a helluva training run! It makes my 37.6M at a mere 6:35/M in the Wings for Life *race* rather feeble by comparison... my target race pace will only be 7:30/M though (for about 7hr45) -- that would still be a pretty high 83.25% WAVA for me in a completely new event, so probably a bit optimistic.

    I did a taper tune-up run this morning that was also literally a dress rehearsal (well OK not an actual frock): I've sewn more elastic loops to my already-modified race shorts so they now have a maximum capacity of 13 gels, more than I'll want on Sunday I'm sure. I was carrying 11 this morning -- felt a bit odd initially, but I got used to it, none dropped out, and I could extract them OK. Still low carb today and probably tomorrow (it's the Good Earth high-oleo crunchy that I find irresistible, LMH, quite like their seedy one too), before a big carbo load starting Thurs.
  • I'm a Meridian 100% peanut crunchy fan myself Charlie but anything without palm oil will do. You want to be eating more than gels on your 100k - haven't you tried with some real food? Bananas are good (usually found at the aid stations) and things like Pulsin or Nakd bars though I must admit that flat coke was my ultra weapon of choice - never failed.

    RJ - a different league.

    LS21 - time for a visit to the GP and possible referral on? Whilst my knees are progressing I'm still not totally pain free so finally cancelled the room I had booked for Yeovil today. Will focus on Robin Hood and hope not to break this autumn as spectacularly as I did last year................

    I'm looking forward to reading the weekend's race reports.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • That's not great at all LS, I don't have any advice on that one (and if I did, you've probably heard everything by now anyway) but I hope it starts to clear up soon.

    Great 10k from padams, you keep churning out these casual performances at a level most of us can only aspire to.  Incidentally, someone managed 17:26 with a dog at our parkrun at the weekend, starting from the back of the field, if you're looking for a target.

    41 mile training runs are the reason I'll probably never race 100k, but doing it at that pace is amazing.  RJ is a lot more than just a loud running vest these days :-)

    OO, I'm hoping for a decent race report from you!

    I'm with CW on coaches, but I can see where TT's coming from too.  I prefer the flexibility of doing my own thing, even if that means I'm making it up as I go along sometimes and yes, I'd probably have performed better over the years with a bit of guidance, especially over shorter distances.  FWIW I suspect that maintaining mileage over many years starts giving diminishing returns after a while, and a change of focus is probably a good thing.

    Good luck for the weekend CW & RJ.  CW, I'd bet decent money that you've optimised the order that you take your gels from your shorts to maintain weight distribution. 

    Not much to report from me, last weekend was the first of 'not very much' for a while, and I enjoyed it hugely.  Anyone else doing the London 10k at the end of the month?

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    RJ - decent run I suppose......... ;-) Any target? Any 5km (or quicker) stuff is in smaller individual/global amounts (longest individual rep is 800m (5 reps), largest global amount is 4800m (12 x 400)). The main change is really running less volume, but doing it quicker. I think the intention is eventually to get to the stage where my general runs are nearly all at MP+10%, so my engine will be more than maintained, but just in a different way. It took me a long while to accept that I don't benefit from the huge mileage that some of you guys can maintain and absorb. Lanzarote in December reassured me that I've got decent natural endurance as I could knock out a marathon without a long run for nearly 8 months so I will hopefully benefit from trying to address my weaknesses without impacting my engine.

    CD - diminishing returns is indeed the coach's thinking.

    LS21 - is it worthwhile you looking for a similar setup? Fingers crossed you're healed up soon.

    OO - good luck for Sunday. I'm doing a local 10k. Expecting a shocker (managing mara pb pace for it would be a stunning result - average weekly mileage for the last few months has been under 30 - mainly due to the anaemia, and I'm carrying about an extra stone), but I need to start somewhere I guess.

    Just to give an outline of this week for those who were interested (this is a base week):
    Mon: 15m with 10min pickup - ran as 40mins @ ~MP+60s (7:05), 10mins @ 5:47 (10km-10m pace?), 7.7m/51mins @ MP+10% (6:39).
    Tues: 4m very easy / 8m @ MP+10% + 6 x 200m strides (5km pace)/200m jog.
    Wed: 2 x 4m - ideally both @ MP+10%.
    Thurs: 4m very easy / LT session - 30mins split (probably 3 x 10mins @ 10k effort with 2 mins between).
    Fri: 5m @ MP+10%.
    Sat: 5m + 6 x 10s hillsprints, 2 x 20s hillsprints.
    Sun: 10k race.

  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    CD - that is a good target! Starting at the back at our parkrun would rule that out though as you basically end up walking the first 800m or so, so I'd have to start near the front.

    RJ - 41M at 6:12s, haha! I don't know what to say about that, it just made me laugh.

    LS - sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I have no idea how to help, but I hope it sorts itself out soon.

    A few miles with the dog this morning then track this evening. Legs are feeling a bit dead, I guess caused by the hard ride on Sunday.
  • LS21LS21 ✭✭✭
    TT/CW - change of idea. I think CW should become a coach. It would be epic. Getting his subjects to run 1km reps wearing a 11.45lb rucksack full of cheese while wearing odd shoes. Perhaps some plyometric drills with a table tennis bat strapped to your forehead etc. A sure-fire winner.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭

    Haha LS21. Sounds like a potential reality TV show. First challenge, cutting shoes to be as light as possible whilst maintaining appropriate structural integrity!

    CW - meant to say earlier, I could imagine if you were being coached that the coach would (in the nicest possible way) find it as maddening as you ;-)

  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    CD - Me too! I will be thinking as I self-slap myself on the back that CW / RJ are just warming-up.
    TT- thanks and your on the list. I reckon you will surprise yourself.
    100K - Race Jase / CW
    Exeter fun run - OuchOuch
    10K funner and surprisingly quick run - TT 
    I am interested in seeing how RJ/ CW as would like to run another ultra at some stage. The one I run was 32m so not really sure I counted.
    I've adopted a new form of maranoia, namely entering other marathons whilst tapering. Have now sounded out a few friends about the Munich marathon in October - sounds a bit more fun than running Barnstaple.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    14 yr old ran 15:55 with his dog to win our local parkrun a month ago. There's your target Padams. He started at the front so it'll be a fair comparison.
    I love the idea of CW coaching.
  • You must have a very understanding OH OuchOuch! 32 miles is a 'short' ultra but an ultra none the less.

    I might just volunteer to be the subject in a Charlie coaching experiment.........
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • 15:55?  Strewth!  Was he running with a dog or riding a small pony disguised as a Labrador?

    LMH - coaching is one thing.  Would you volunteer to be the subject in a Charlie physio experiment?

  • LS21LS21 ✭✭✭
    At present I'd volunteer for a CW physio session. Charlie - when are you next in Keswick? Bring your scalpel :wink:
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    Jooligan - was the dog just on a lead or was it attached to the runner who was wearing a harness (like CaniX)? If the latter, supposedly that can help the runner by a good couple of minutes if you have the right dog. If the former, that's impressive.

    Our dog, let's just say she won't be helping me to run faster. She could run a lot faster than me, but keeping her on the straight and narrow is another matter. If you could train a squirrel to run about 10m ahead of us at 13 minute 5k pace we'd be sorted.
  • edited May 2017

    Padams - the guy at our parkrun had the dog on a harness arrangement to a waist belt - he's run sub 17 on his own but admitted that the dog helped him a lot at times, most noticeably on the uphill stretches when he pulled away from me very easily.  Less so on the downhill, and like your dog got distracted a few times.  The whole run is through woods so plenty of squirrels, shall we say.

    I'm waiting for someone to attach dogs to a kids buggy and go at it sledge-style.  What could possibly go wrong?

  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭
    LS21 - the few times I've been injured, despite loads of £££'s spent and visits to the fizz, the only thing that has really made it better is stopping running for a couple of months.  If you keep up a bit of swimming or other cross training, the running fitness comes back in a few weeks.  Will be interesting to see how Marders gets on in coming months, after missing a few months following several months of up to 200 miles a week.  Reckon you could do a good study on him.

    (the above is in no way a slight on the quality of fizzio's - especially since the missus has spent the past few years becoming one! (albeit not in sports) >:)  
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Had to laugh at that, Padams: ours adored squirrels and would just sit under a tree, lovingly waiting for the squirrel they'd chased to come back down.  Sadly for them the local squirrels weren't quite that stupid...  Perhaps you could race on a greyhound track with a squirrel mounted on the rabbit-stand?!
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭

     RJ.. back in March I was congratulating myself on getting up at 7am for a steady 5 miler on a Saturday morning.  Once back and suitably hosed down sitting smugly with my mug of tea I noted on FB that you had run 33m before breakfast at 6:22 pace.  Mind you that is a notch down from 6:12 pace so I can only assume that you stopped at the Bacon Buttie caravan on Morley High Street for replenishment.  All the best for Sunday to you & Charlie, hope the weather gods are kind to you.

    LS21.. jeepers you are in a right state.  When I had piriformis/sciatic nerve issues a couple of years ago (pain from glute to back of knee) no amount of exercises or stretching made any difference.  I needed tramadol for a long run or race.  In the end I saw my favourite physio who doesn't mess about; one cortisone injection had me running pain free in 4 days.  I wish you a similar miraculous recovery.

    4m+8m today, much prefer the warmer weather meself. 

  • Race JaseRace Jase ✭✭✭

    lol Wardi. To be fair that 33 miler was over a hilly route so it was bound to be a little slower, I also did the 41 miler as 4X9.5miles (Not your standard interval session I accept) so it broke it up a bit. ;-)

    LS21 have you ever seen a chiropractor? Sorted my piriformis out no issues. All due to my pelvic misalignment.

    Sounds good TT. Re target, not sure to be  honest as it's such an unknown. I am pretty sure I could get to 75k in reasonable shape but what happens after that is anyone's guess! I will likely target 6:40 (about 6:25 per mile) but to be honest would be happy just to finish the thing and learn from it!

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