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  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 9
    LMH- indeed, in 12 more weeks vlm will be done and will be well into recovery time.

    SJ- use it as a marker, which will motivate you to do more.

    Simon - you could do iow 1/2 as a day out (i saw your post re iow), you get a day out on the beach/crazy golf after and youd win some cash to go towards the cost. I'e done it when my kids were younger and won prizes. Also consider gosport 1/2, I won £50 for v45 win a few years back, and you are wayyyyyyy better than me. I just win prizes when the proper runners dont show up. I am better at 1/2s than i am at 10k though.

    2m today, if I run 2m tomorrow then I have run every day (except Christmas day) of the 12 weeks between gosport and Worthing. Which was a way of motivating myself to get fit enough to consider vlm if Worthing went okish.
  • I'd not write it off yet SJ, as you say, see how a couple of long runs go.

    I find it much easier to just know that I need to get a run in TR (though I don't streak). I hope you have better weather tomorrow that we're forecast.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 10
    2m done so that' the streak completed.

    LMH - don' usually look to streak as I have always had swim and bike which meant plenty of non running days. Don' intend upon anymore streaks going forward. Not sure what your weather forecast is, ours if for westerly wind. Looks like the course tomorrow is 7m of local roads which should be ok but then ~3m west along the coast road, with 3m back again. I will try to remember to look at my watch at 7 and 10m so I know how much to pugometer off the finish time.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    SJ - as TR / LMH says use it as a stepping stone to the next Spring or Autumn marathon.
    Dan - don't suppose it was pissing down on your run this morning. Not at all envious just saying like. 
    11m d&d..18m for tomorrow to bring up a respectable 75m for the week. Feeling slightly guilty as no rest days this week. 
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    OO.. snap in many ways.  Went to the local Park Run today and the cold wind across the course (very exposed at York) nearly cut me in two.  Plenty of rain to add to the enjoyment factor as well!  Headed to the relative shelter of a local park afterwards with a bit of tree cover which gave my hands time to thaw out inside two pairs of gloves.  3 laps of the park rounded it up to 11m like your self.  Hopefully I will get somewhere near your 18m tomorrow.

    All the best for Sunday TR.
  • Finished my week with 6 yesterday with 25 mins @ 85% maxHR which equated to 7:08 average pace. Felt pretty good. 

    Today was my first 20 of the campaign. Picked pace up throughout and last mile was quickest. I was out in the hail, snow, sleet, rain and most bizarrely bright sunshine for 2hours45mins so I guess that is keeping a lid on it. 

    Only 46 miles for the week but hope to add another easy run to nudge over 50 for next few weeks. 
  • Nice long run SJ - it wasn't the morning for it here, really windy as well as sleet at times. I was glad that I didn't need to go long this morning as I was losing 20-30 seconds when running in to the wind and was blown sideways a couple of times. I hope TR had better weather.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 11
    Sj - you are obviously getting fitter then, good signs there in those two runs.

    I thought to myself the other day that it would be ironic if I ran the same times as gosport after a concerted 12weeks of running.......8 secs slower than gosport. Whilst the wind was noticeable in the first 7m that wiggled through the roads behind the seafront it wasn' too bad although not ideal. The ~3m west from 7m to 10m was brutal and I reckon i lost about 2mins in this section alone, I was getting back ache from running along leaning forward........So the experiment ends with me being fitter than I was at the start of it, the watch just didn' reflect it. Probably 2 or 3 mins slower according to the pugometer, who knows, maybe more.

    My legs still ached today which is a slight worry but I was ok aerobically, and probably had more to give but the legs and wind were pressing my mental buttons which affected my interest in smashing myself.

    The wind didn' seem to slow marders much, he was streaking along in the lead. He said he was up for an MP run too.

    No more twatting about with a number on for a while as I now have a cake to bake.......and no more twatting about with a winter number on until the gosport 1/2 In November, where I have 7min 01s to find.
  • Nice racing TR, sounds like conditions were pretty ropey so no surprise the time doesn't reflect current form properly.

    Conditions don't sound much better for you, SJ, but a good run nonetheless.

    A mixed bag for me this weekend - I managed 10 miles on Friday lunchtime, from the office to the top of Box Hill and back.  Yesterday was my annual 'never again' run at Lloyd Park for the XC league, which as Dan will know is always a mud bath and yesterday, in the rain, was no exception.  Deep mud in places, slippy everywhere else even with 15mm spikes in.  Never again...

    Then this morning I ran 5 miles over to the start of the local 10k, then decided I was feeling OK enough to pay for entry on the day.  It's a nice road course, a bit undulating in places but nothing major, it can be quite fast if you're in form.  Well, to cut a short story even shorter, I wasn't, not after XC the day before, so 38:11 was no surprise but it was pretty evenly paced and solo for the most part, so not too bad.  1st Vet which covered the entry.  Scott Overall turned up and had a ridiculously easy win in 30:29.  Good to see him at a local race though.

  • I think you're right not to read to much in to it given conditions today TR.

    Well done on the win CD.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    Wardi - How did you 18m or near to go?  Mine in 2 parts 10m am as not feeling too great (red win when will I learn) and a far better/ faster 8m pm. Both in a stiff breeze dodging the occasional hailtstorm. Don't you love Feb.
    CD - Solid and always great to win something/ anything.
    SJ - Good 20 miler in interesting weather - back in the game. 
    TR - That's a decent hm run, can easily see how the wind would have cost 2-4 minutes today.  You will improve and get fitter from that.  Yes, time to bake that cake.  
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 11
    CD - good few days work there

    Agreed, today was a target to use to get fitter and hopefully be in good enough shape to then use my had place. I had already guessed I'd be fit enough and have already put some vlm miles and long runs in already.
    A couple of good reminders today though that adaptations need time to sink in (there's no shortcuts and 12 weeks is a shortcut from minimal running), and time goals are sometimes ruined by conditions.
    Time to get chugging, no need to run anything beginning with a 6:XX for a while.

    Time for some refreshment.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    You seem to have managed the uncontrollables well today TR, solid run in the conditions.  Enjoy the refreshment!

    CD.. some good calorie burning over the weekend and nicely done on that vet prize.

    SJ.. always nice to get the first 20m done, good effort.

    OO.. 17m here but after yesterday's wet & freezing experience I banged this one out on the treadie watching a mixture of footie & winter olympics.  69m on the board for this week which is the most I've done for a while.  I too will be out shortly for a deserved thirst quencher, also my team the Toon beating Mourinho's expensive artisans today will probably mean I have another one :p
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a cracking run after that lead in CD
    Well done TR. Wind destroyed my 10M a couple of weeks back - mentally as much as physically I reckon. You mentioned no more 6:xx miles for a while: do you do no LT work in marathon build-up then? 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 11
    Enjoy the beer wardi

    Jooligan- I may do the odd BAC session in a few weeks, and I have even done a test 10m a few weeks out where I look to hold 6:30ish(not sure I'll try that this time as I doubt I'll be able to do it) but just some easy miles for a few weeks minimum now. So much of my recent running has been lunchtime 6 milers that i need to simply make time to put some double digit runs in a couple of commutes a week, ideally mlr distance. Strength trumps speed when you are 2:5X. I have never done anthing more than the odd BAC session  or some 3 min reps in the odd campaign (timed reps are ace as you don't get bent out of shape about pace). I have also done complete campaigns with nothing other than easy running.......I did 10 x 1m (with 30sec rest) a few times in 1/2 IM build up though, probably would be a good mara session too.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the insight TR. I've been running 80mpw for 6 weeks after 8 of 60+ keeping HR below 136 during the week and then some speedier stuff at weekends. You said your streak was done so will you be having 1 or 2 days a week without a run? 
    My PB came off a much lower mileage, a day or 2 a week off but with 22x 10-20M & 8x 20M+ runs in a 13 week build which tallies with your advice.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    edited February 12

    TR - sounds like a decent result to basically match your previous time in those conditions.

    SJ - nice to get a 20 under your belt, especially in those conditions.

    Lots of other decent mileage being banked e.g. OO, Wardi. Sounds like everyone's starting to ramp it up a bit!

    I managed to squeeze a couple of runs in over the weekend which were both pleasing in differing ways.

    On Saturday morning I managed to achieve one of my goals for 2018 - winning the St Albans parkrun pushing mini-Padams. I started way off to the side to avoid getting in the way of the fast starters and so was probably 20s or so back from the leaders after 1k. But I noticed they weren't pulling away and I had a chance (obviously most weeks there's no chance of winning with the buggy as there are some fast runners), so pushed on a bit. Managed to catch 2nd place with about 1k to go - he's a good friend of mine so was a bit annoyed! Then caught the leader with about 400m to go and managed to drop him in the home straight. 17:31, which is a PB for mini-Padams by 12 seconds. Pleased with that given I had to put in about 10 surges up the bumpy grass to overtake and they take it out of you with the buggy (especially as he now weighs about 13kg).

    Yesterday I got a window for a long run so did my first 20 miler since May. Fairly uneventful - miles 1-10 were mostly 6:5x (10M in 69:30), then picked it up a bit for miles 11-18 (6:3x mostly) and backed off a bit for the last couple. 2:16:30 for the whole thing, which felt OK although it was hard work on the windy sections.

  • CharlieWCharlieW ✭✭✭
    Jooligan -- it's hard to predict which races will be V40-49 and which V45-49, and whether it's just one place that gets a vet prize or the first 2 or 3; you just have to check out the details in advance. I got £25 for 2nd V45 at the Brass Monkey in York (and Wardi was good enough to hang around with me, so we had a nice chat!).

    OO, Wardi -- well parkrun; a colleague here did the York one too (on a stag weekend) and also reported the bitter wind.

    Well done TR, you should definitely give yourself a couple of minutes credit for that headwind section. A fast woman in my club did it (and won it), and knowing you'd be there too I peered at her Strava pace graph and saw it take a hammering in that westerly stretch, and she was definitely several minutes slower than she would be in fast conditions.

    Well done on the vet prize and getting 2 races in, CD.

    Wow Padams, you must have caused a lot of surprised faces at the parkrun! Nice 20M, too.

    Just to horrify TR, I did another training marathon yesterday, having rested on Saturday to let my legs freshen up. I wanted some tempo in it, but felt it would just be demoralising to attempt that into the wind, so I ran 13.1M out of town on the busway into the wind at a steady clip (~7:20/M), then turned and did 10M tempo. Which given the tailwind, was disappointingly slow (6:37/M or MP+30s), but I'd already worked quite hard I guess. Whole marathon took about 3:05, allowing for a GPS wobble, so not too reckless. Then I plodded gently 5M to work this morning on admittedly feeble legs.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    TR - to back up CW's comments about the wind, Marders' run on Strava has him not much below 6m/m for some of those headwind sections, so it must have been pretty horrendous (that's usually roughly walking pace for him).

    CW - whether it's optimal training or not, I'm impressed you can keep knocking out runs like that. 20M was enough for me yesterday, I just mentally find them tough as I think I get bored, until it starts to get painful, and then it's just painful! But I guess you get better at them the more you do.

  • I am in awe of your running Padams - with or without buggy!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • CD - sounds like a good weekend of racing, I'm not surprised you weren't in top form from the previous days effort, still nice to come away with the entry fee covered.

    padams - cracking work with the buggy, that's seriously moving. As others have said, I can't imagine that went down too well with some of the faster chaps!

    CW - I enjoy following your long distance training run adventures and I think when I go back to concentrating solely on running I will give something similar a go.

    Looks like there's being some great mileage being logged, London (and other races) must be edging closer.

    Most pleasing thing for me last week was hitting a new FTP (302w) during the most recent test my bike; I know a few of you do/used to do triathlon so I thought that might be sort of relevant here.

    As for running, I had the last fixture of the Surrey League on Wimbledon Common on Saturday. Unfortunately, the mighty Clapham Chasers suffered relegation, despite nearly hauling in Belgrave. I had probably one of my best ever XC runs, felt strong and HR suggested I was working nearly to max, but that wasn't even good enough to score for the team (12th Chaser) and I ended up 108th/240. Some of the front guys just aren't even human..
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 12
    Jooligan - I will indeed have the odd rest day, esp if I can make time to add in a couple of double digit runs in commutes.

    Padams - quality weekend there, winning the Park run must hand annoyed the serious folks no end. I had to do some mental.msths then to work out that masters must have been running 5:1X pace for his 67min last year.

    CW - diificult to quantify how much i lost overall but your and padams Strava data is reassuring. The last 3m was oviously wind assisted but you don't get back what you lose due to the matches burned into the wind. I'll let you off with this weeks 26miler at 10eeks out, I'll be ok with another at 8 weeks and then the final one 6 weeks? That' a decent compromise.

    A deliberate streak breaking zero today, i have a few days off to decorate my youngests room seeing as it' 1/2 term. Hopefully I can make time to run a few miles tomorrow.

    Worthing was a decent well organised race with a big field (2000ish), I didn't like the wiggling round the side roads early on but it was less windy that way. Turns out that I bagged 2nd M50 too. I parked west of the start and ran approx 1.5m along the prom as a warm up, trouble is I had to run back into the wind to get back to the car. When i got to the car the relief was amazing.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a good 20 sj. Well done.

    TR - that sounds like a very good effort in the conditions. 

    CD - congrats on the podium win.

    Padams - a very nice weekend's work there. Particularly impressed with the parkrun. FWIW, I'm with you on the long runs. I've capped mine at 2:00-2:15 for my specific phase.

    JoeB - sounds like a good run, and a strong team!

    Looks like plenty of other useful training going on too.
    Bit of a hectic weekend for me - project work meant I was late getting out of the office on Friday so my planned light session went out the window in favour of a 2m 'fast', 2m time trial (5:24 - about 5km pace given Sunday's race I guess), 2m steady - 6:05 average for the lot.
    Saturday was spent either quad-biking with Ms TT and her kids (mine were with their Mum, and not quite old enough for quads yet), or working again, before my local 10m on Sunday (and yet more work - I've wracked up an extra 2 days worth of work time since Thursday). 

    I don't know what shape I'm in as the prednisone for my asthma is still kicking in, but said I'd have been happy with a sub-58 right now. In the end I ran 57:15 for 8th overall and 1st v40. The wind obviously affected things. I had no strength in my legs, but even still, early on, on the more sheltered part of the course, I was on for a mid-56. Mile 6 with an uphill and crosswind, and mile 7 straight into a headwind cost me a chunk of time (easily over 20s just on mile 7!). Dug in and toughed it out as best I could, even managing a sprint finish to nab a place in the last 20 metres. 

    An easy hour/40min jog double see no real concerns with my legs - just a small bit of fatigue. I couldn't generate enough power yesterday to cause any real damage.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    JoeB - nice to break the 300W FTP barrier, I would have thought that would put you on a 5ish hour split on a fast Ironman course. I never really did a proper test but based on other intervals I think I was around 320W when I was doing a fair bit of cycling, but then I'm a lot bigger than you.

    TT - that's a great time in those conditions. Just out of interest, is prednisone a banned substance for competition? I'm sure I've seen it mentioned in some drug story, but I could be completely wrong. Just wondering if you'd have to get a TUE if you were in a serious race?! I'm sure you would know about this anyway as you're pretty knowledgeable about this sort of thing.

    I don't think anyone was annoyed that I won the parkrun pushing the buggy, but I got a lot of comments (like "I've never been buggied before") and there are quite a few comments on the St Albans parkrun facebook!

    Just some easy running since the weekend. I won't be at track tonight as I've been out for dinner the last two nights so should probably spend an evening at home (and I want to!).

  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Great pic Padams! Yep, you're right, I'd need a TUE for a serious competition, though completely ok out of competition. I react badly to it in every way, bar the fact it resolves my asthma flare ups - I reckon it was the reason my legs were completely dead. On my Monday session last week I was as weak as a new-born kitten because of it.
  • Nice pic padams.  If you could just get one with the wheels off the ground as well as your feet you'd look proper fast.  And someone needs to tidy up that hedge.

    JB, the pointy end of that division is just ridiculous, a different class entirely.  Finishing in the top half is very decent.

  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    That is a great picture - flying. So mini-Padams first past the post. 
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    They call me baby driver!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Nice one Padams. Love how mini-Padams looks to be fast asleep & thus completely oblivious. See you'd gone with the X-talons to keep some purchase when overtaking on grass.
    TT: A good result compared to prediction particularly given the adverse weather. 2-2:15 is what Jack Daniels advises as maximum LR length for marathoners.
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