Sub 3



  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Good result that TT, hopefully a good sign.

    Padams - top picture, but don' go making a runner of him, you need to be getting him a small cricket bat soon.

    8m today, back to it after yday rest day. My foot is achy again think it' a bit of Morton's coming back, havnt had that for a few years but they have narrowed the sauconys I usually use, so it' probably consistent with the narrower shoes. Annoys me that manufacturers change models slightly, had to go up 1/2 a size too.
  • Hey up nice to catch up on all your miles. You guys weren't lying when you said you all like high volume. That makes me feel better cos you are putting some in for me in that case to get my weekly average up. I'm bobbing along very nicely at the moment on around 35 miles although the week just gone was less as I run 3 weeks on and 1 week off (lower volume ~ yes even lower than 35! Haha). But all is good. Times continue to fall and speed endurance improving. Posted my fastest club 'Stag'  time in 5 years (LBAC 2.5m handicap) with forumite SC2 pipping me to the line (of course he started about 2 minutes behind me!) 

    Decided on a late entry into Sunday's reorganised MK winter half to test where I am with 8 weeks to go until Brighton. I'd be very happy indeed with 1.28 at this point in my training and I have no right to expect that time but things seems to be going well touch wood. 

    Is anyone else running MK on Sunday? 

    And as for running sub18 Parkrun Padams with a buggy that's just plain bonkers and brilliant. I'm still a minute away from that!! 
  • TT -- nice one on the 10M race.

    I reckon Padams has a motor system in the buggy...

    UDS -- I have a number for MK but will probably duck it as it doesn't fit so well with my race calendar in postponed form. SC2 is on for it though. The weather is looking quite benign, I guess I might do it after all if I feel like an adventure on the day.

    On the long runs, Kipchoge's recently published diary included 40km tempos. But different things work for different people. I don't have a detailed plan TR, so I couldn't tell you what I'll do when.

    I've been trudging as much as I can fit in commutes since my training marathon on Sunday, should be close to 100M this week (Sun->Fri) but some of it at 9:00/M or worse!
  • CW - my long runs during the specific phase are done at that Kenyan/Kipchoge tempo effort (I've set a range of 10% to 12.5% over current MP - the latter being typical for the Kenyans, but the range being similar to some of the Lydiard/Barry Magee type stuff that was classed as 80% or 1/2 effort). I'm capping them at 2-2:15/18-20m though as I'm no Kenyan.

    Jooligan - that's interesting with the Jack Daniels long runs. I never realised that.

    TR - I'm with you on the shoes. It's pointless. Fingers crossed it settles down.

    UDS - good luck for Sunday.
  • Taking a massive dislike to this current weather. 10m y'day in the driving rain/ hail, 11.5m today in the driving rain/hail. I bet the Kenyans don't train in this! 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Another zero for me, but hopefully i can finish this decorating tomorrow ( i have taken another days leave).so can get running again tomorrow or Friday. Good to give a bit back to the family though.

    I wouldnt try to do what the pro's do, all they have to do each day is run, and they have 'support' systems in place that us mortals don't. Howeber i pay little interest to top level endurance sports now as I reckon that i believe in Father Christmas more than I believe in top endurance sports athletes nowaday.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    TT - good to know I hadn't mis-remembered about the prednisone. I can't remember who got banned for it though, going to have a look now!

    Jooligan - good spot on the XTalons. Yes, I'm probably on the grass around 20% of the parkrun mainly due to overtaking/lapping, so useful for grip. It was actually pretty frozen last weekend so not slippery, but with the buggy there is way more resistance on the grass so still slows you down quite a bit.

    CW - a motor in the buggy, that's a good idea! Unfortunately I don't have anywhere near the required engineering skills.

    OO - yes, I'm pretty fed up with this winter too, can't wait to go away on Sunday! Today is looking good here though and the forecast for the next few days is decent,

    7.5M easy yesterday morning with mini-Padams and some friends. Hopefully will get a window for 6M or so later and planning on doing something a bit faster.
  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭
    OO - with you on that front; spoiled last week with sun on hols, but last two nights have been out for almost two hours both nights in just about the most miserable conditions I can remember running in (freezing cold, pissing down, strong winds). Trying to kid myself that good marathons are made on nights like that.  Wonder if there are any stats on performance in spring v autumn UK marathons due to the hugely different training climates?
  • Excellent - a motor in a 3-wheeler buggy while you chase after it over uneven, slippy ground.  What could possibly go wrong? :-)

    Another one here fed up with the weather.  Track session last night was nice down the back straight, then getting blown across into lane 2 or 3 on the bend and struggling into driving rain all the way up the home straight.  I was the only one there, nobody else was mad enough to be out there!

    Anyone else at Wokingham on Sunday?

  • Great run at Bramley TT. Had a read of your blog - I think I need to be a bit mentally tougher, going to try it out this weekend.

    OO/Dan - agree about the weather, but it's lovely today! Hopefully a corner is being turned.

    CD - I'll be at Wokingham this weekend. You going full gas/what you hoping for? I've been doing a lot of bike stuff and not much running, but I'll give it a crack. PB is 1.16, but based on recent running sessions, I'll be more than happy with a 1.18 or so. Will keep an eye out for you. 
  • I'm also at Wokingham.
    First time in a flat HM so aiming for a PB. Current road PB is 1:28:57 in Stroud 2013. I'd warmed up with a 3rd place at parkrun & a 5.5M fell race the day before :D Should be a bit fresher Sunday. I've beaten that time, just, on our local hilly trail HM several times most recently in March 17 when I got a PB of 1:27:59.
    A target is 1:25:xx, B 1:26:xx & C 1:27:xx
  • Has anyone else read this article in the Guardian on marathon pace predictions and results based on sample of over a 1000 marathoners. Some really interesting stuff in there which I though everyone would find interesting. In short the formula of 1.06 to predict a marathon finishing time based in half marathon time is way off what people achieve in reality. The new formula is set at 1.15. But lots more interesting stuff in the article too based on training mileage, longest runs, etc they all have a baring on who runs closest to their predicted time.
  • Little M.iss HappyLittle M.iss Happy ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Is that Fetch's formula Stu? Miles out for me if so.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Thanks UDS.  Yes, interesting, way out for me too, but that is because they need more variables to capture other factors such as  the fast aging, multiple marathon running goal obsessives.  But some key rules, faster runners run more miles and more miles in their 5 long runs pre-marathon.  Any changes to your plans? 
    DanA - whatever the result, much prefer training in the longer days and sunshine of the summer for Autumn marathons - talking of which - that's sunshine out there I see! 
  • Good luck for Wokingham this weekend, Joe/ Jools - some good tight targets there Jools, thats the way.   I am doing a race of sorts with my training pal as we both need a fast 10m run for Barcelona. So the plan is 5.5m @ 6.20 and then he gets a 1 minute head-start on the way back, and a game of catch the rabbit. 
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    UDS - some good stats, but I don't think looking at past data is a very good indication of what should be achievable when converting HM times to M times. 1.06 seems about right to me, but most people don't do the miles or screw up the race.

    It's a bit like that guy who wrote a huge blog post about how a significant positive split must be the best approach because that's what most people do (and to ignore the elite runners who don't do this because they are outliers).

    The back half of this week is not looking good training-wise as mini-Padams is ill again, so not in nursery and trying to get him better before we go away on Sunday. With packing, Mrs Padams having to do a Speed Awareness Course tomorrow (nearly 2 hours drive away...) etc. I think this will have to be a "recovery week".

  • Is that Fetch's formula Stu? Miles out for me if so.

    Yes it is LMH. I think the article is more enlightening than the calculator. I agree its quite pessimistic. A 1.28 half gives me a 3.15 marathon. That just doesn't seem right but it is based on a good sample. Runners in the sample have all run at least 5 halves and five marathon so it isn't skewed by first timers.

    Agree though OO it doesn't take into account you super fast vets!!!  

    Has it changed my approach to training in the last 8 weeks?.... I won't change much but I will ensure I get my 20 mile long runs in. I won't get five in though. And it has probably helped me to manage my expectations for Brighton. Stats are stats. So if I'm only in 1. 25 half form then it's going to be very close. I won't be disappointed with any particular time I get at Brighton. It was always meant to be a training marker in the continued build up to Warsaw in September. 

    Apparently if I change sex and run as a female I stand a much better chance!! 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    UDS: I read the article with interest & was therefore disappointed that the calculator was based solely on HM times.  FWIW It predicted 3:15:14 for me based on my HM PB from March. I've not run a target marathon that slowly since 2014! My PB gives an R = 1.04 off 56mpw
  • Good luck at Wokingham guys, and those at Milton Keynes, and anyone else racing!

    It wasn't a factor of 1.06, but 2^1.06 (i.e. two to the power of...). My best recent HM is 1:15:28 and my best recent M is 2:38:53, which is a ratio of 2.103 or 2^1.072. So for me that 1.06 was pretty close.

    Easy day today, just 7.5M in my commutes to reach the magic 100M for the week -- then rest tomorrow, quality of some kind Sun.
  • CW: Interesting that yours is still below the Riegel 1.06 in spite of your big mileage & over distance LRs
  • Joe/ Jools - I'll be happy with something around 1:18 as well.  Last year was 78:26 and the year before (on a very windy day) 78:24.  Difficult to tell in advance these days.

    Interesting stats.  I suppose there are two types of predictor - the one that tries to predict what you should be capable of, and the other that tells you what on average you're likely to end up with.  Only the first one is useful, IMO, but as padams points out there have been those in the past who say you should aim for the average because that's what you'll end up with.  FWIW 1.06 seems reasonable to me as a decent target.  The years I've run Wokingham & London have been conversions of between 1.02 & 1.07: the 1.02 was off that windy day in Wokingham so a bit of an outlier.  TippTop has some ridiculously good conversions as I recall, as does CW.

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Hopefully you're done with the decorating and back at it TR. I agree with not replicating what the pros do precisely, but you can use it as a guide. The tempos CW refers to (Kipchoge) were listed as alternating ~1:40 and ~2:15. That seems to be pretty standard for the Kenyans (alternating 30km/40km runs). I'm aiming for 2:00-2:15 tempos (capping out at 20 miles) at a similar effort.

    Cheers Joe

    CD - I had a look at my pbs (72:10 - 2:27:48), which comes out as 2^1.034, so a decent conversion, but not in the same level as your 1.02........ 

    Not gotten much done this week. Work has been chaotic, and other things have taken up my time outside of it (brought my rest day forward to Thursday because of it). Not gotten anywhere near a workout this week, but will hopefully manage a fartlek tomorrow morning and sneak over the 70 for the week by Sunday.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Hope Wokingham goes well, no doubt it will be a nice still day after the wind affected races I've had on the last two Sundays.

    TT - I like your 2:15 upper limit, that' plenty when you are running marathons at your pace.

    I agree with Dan I bet there's better adaptations to be had training through the summer for an autumn mara. Always meant to do an autumn mara but never managed it due to not running enough through the summer.

    After 1 zero in 12 wks, I had 3 in 4 days this week as I was still decorating. But luckily I got back to it with 12m just now. My foot is going to need some managing though. I'e had a few easy weeks due to racing and decorating, so I need a big 7 weeks now.
  • Training marathons, tidy 10M performance and a parkrun win for a sleeping child... Run of the mill week on this thread.

    Agree on the rubbish weather. Slight respite forecast next couple of days but with the warmer temperature and this being Manchester probably means wet running this weekend.

    Couple of rest days this week as work has been busy. Managed an 8 on Tuesday which was enough after Sundays 20. Then 12 last night with 5 at 85% maxHR. Ended up more like 90% maxHR and was tough going. 2 mile cool down confirmed I was spent. 

    Best of luck to those racing this weekend and good runs to those hitting the roads and trails.
  • TT - that 1.02 was really down to poor conditions for the half compared with the full that particular spring.  If I go by PBs, set a year apart some time ago, the factor comes to 1.066.

  • CD - my pbs were 3 weeks apart, though the HM was at New Forest. If I go by last year's conversion (75:38 10 weeks out from a 2:28:57) I'd really skew the calcs! ;)

    TR - nice one with the 12m. I remember all the time I spent doing diy on this place and the time it took out of training. Worth it when I'd finished though.

    sj - sounds like a good 12 with 5. Nice one.
  • I much prefer training through the summer for an autumn marathon.

    Glad you've been able to get back to it TR.

    Hope mini Padams is on the mend.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    TT - my lad had 1/2 term from college, wanted his room done nd offered to help, so I couldn' say no, he put in a good shift. Good life skills and good time spent together doing something we wouldn' normally do together.

    Was pushed for time but in the first mile today I realized I got squeeze 10m in if I got a shove on, so after a slower first mile I pretty much averaged ~6.45s and did 10 in 68.5X. I have done a test 10m a few weeks out from vlm before within 12 or 13m, where the aim was 6:30 to 6:40 pace for a 'comfortably hard' 10m. So todays run was a big confidence boost 9 weeks out...should have saved myself the faff of racing the last 2 Sundays as today is more pleasing (and an unplanned surprise after 12m yday).
  • Nice TR!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Cracking training run TR!  Confidence booster indeed. :)

    Speaking of the weather, showed up at my third consecutive Park Run in pithing rain yet again this morning.  At least it wasn't blowing a hoolie like last week so a minute quicker & 1st old git.  An extra lap of the course and 3 laps of a nearby Park topped up to 14m so a reasonable MLR of sorts.  Just got back to the car as the sky cleared and it stopped raining :/

    FWIW my 'best' conversion was 1:28/3:03 10 years ago.  Around 1:03/1:04. 
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