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Had to have a go in all honesty. Will see what I can do in on the day. Hopefully long run at weekend restores some confidence.
Picking up on the questions/debate posed by a few above about taking a rest day or two, and back off the mileage to enable you to feel fresher and run a fast effort in training. I think it's essential. As an outsider to this group which is evidently very tight, the impression I have got is that there is huge pride in the weekly mileage being achieved and you are all brilliantly supportive of one another. However does this make it more difficult in your minds to sometimes back off and reduce the volume in a week to recover, to not have that tiredness in your legs on the next run, and to be in some quality runs. Please don't take this comment as criticism of any of your approaches as you guys are all faster than me, but I think no matter where you are, everyone has something to offer others through advice and making observations. That's the point of a forum right. So perhaps I'm the (unpopular) person prepared to say that don't just chase miles. Have a rest day or two then put in a super session :-)
Did you know for example that the body can not distinguish from different types of stress on the body and mind. Stress is stress and no matter how it manifests itself, whether that be as a result of a 3 hour commute, a 12 hour day at work, tough personal circumstances or high mileage running this all puts stress on the body which reacts in the same way to each. Why is this important.... In Mo Farah's autobiography he says something really interesting. Elites run high mileage (of course) but they do nothing else, for every other hour of the day when they aren't running they do as little as possible, they rest, they sleep, they eat. That's it. Unless they are running they aren't putting any other types of stress on their body and mind. Mo comments that amateurs who perform at the highest level (the Champs start for example!) are putting in the same v high weekly mileage as Elites but adding all that stress from 'a normal' working week/day. It can be too much and leads to fatigue, over training syndrome and burn out.
So take a rest day or two for this reason too and then come back stronger.
CW - you should know by now to trust in your training. You know you can sustain the speed, you've done it often enough before. On other matters, have you not been abroad from Cambridge Airport? You could run to that one.
Don't despair, TR. You're coming back from a slack year so you can't expect to reach peak as early as you used to. Still 4 weeks to go, don't write off 2:5X just yet.
My last proper long run will be 3 weeks out as usual, which is easter weekend this year while we're away so hopefully some warm(er) weather acclimatisation ready for what will undoubtedly be a 'scorcher' of 18ºC at VLM. Probably another this weekend, but fitting it in might be tricky.
TR - compared to previous years you've got more mileage in the legs for your MP efforts, so I wouldn't be too concerned that you're not managing to hit the pace you want. Onec you taper you'll gain some speed. (Now realised this is exactly what LMH said!)
GBRM - I've done this before when we did the 48hr treadmill relay thing and then wanted to all run the marathon together (but Crab and RB decided to run off ahead anyway...), so those of us with Championship places moved to the green start. We pre-arranged that, but was a bit different as I think we were treated like the other WR people (fastest person dressed as a sandwich or whatever). I'm sure if you speak to someone at the Expo or email the Championship start people now it won't be a problem.
UDS - you make some good points. I haven't been doing enough mileage to justify a rest though! I'm pretty sure my body could handle an extra 20-30mpw as I haven't really felt that tired this time around.
I've fitted in a bit more mileage this week than in previous weeks (up to 32M so far). All pertty steady and a lot of it with the dog and/or mini-Padams, but did 5x1200m on the track on Tuesday evening. The session was to run the middle lap faster than the other 2, so generally was doing 80, 75, 80 for around 3:55. A bit different and I actually really enjoyed it, although the rests were too long (4 mins, which we did treated as 800m easy). The most pleasing thing was that 80s laps have started to feel pretty comfortable, and I remember doing 1200s in 4 mins a month or two ago and that felt quite hard.
UDS -- I agree it is valuable to rest in training to make some quality training possible. I don't agree that any kind of stress acts the same though; sometimes I have been really knackered doing a long drive back from somewhere, yet having forced myself out of the door my legs have been up for a really decent run. Lack of sleep doesn't fatigue your leg muscles, for example. (But it might mean your central governor refuses to use so much of their capability...)
CD -- I did use Cambridge Airport just once, when there was still a scheduled service to Schiphol. It was brilliant -- I rode up on my bike (and they opened the security barrier for me), and was in the air about 15 mins after leaving home. The departure procedure was "Looks like everyone's here -- let's go then."
I'm now at 94M for the week and still have a run home, so I'll definitely take a rest day tomorrow having easily met my 100M+ for the Sat->Fri week in 5d. Quality weekend run, here I come... And I was heavily dressed this morning, a bit of heat acclimatisation a la CD (without the nice destination).
J - you can only do what you can do and make the best decision you can with the information available at the time. It will either come good for Manchester or there's an autumn marathon:-)
Enjoy some warm weather training CD.
Regulation 10m for me today, weather good enough for a t-shirt which was a nice change.
Now I'm a man of leisure I can train every day (some doubles) but I don't get obsessive about streaks. If I feel tired & cranky I will take a day off, being able to get as much sleep as I need helps too. I'm sure I read Njord who pops on here occasionally hasn't had a rest day in several years. Some folks deal with heavy training better than others I guess. Speaking of which nice miles Charlie.
Good speed on the track Padams.
Enjoy your break CD, I know I will!
That 8m block isn' a usual benchmark run, yet one I've been doing recently and I remember that one time I did it av 6.30 (not sure when that was though). It' more about getting a tough run in, but I do admit to expecting to have got quicker as the weeks went on, but I'm happy with what LMH and padams said.
I do have a flat 10m I do as a benchmark before some vlms but it hasn't fitted in with my double double commutes so I havnt done it, I might do it Good Friday, but whatever the outcome nothing changes re race day, so I'm not sure I'll bother.
SJ /TR- I am 100% sure with a good taper plenty of rest, you both will run good and fat marathons come the day. TR - In particular your ability to crank up the mileage has been really impressive.
I have some test match highlights (or lowlights) to watch.
I agree TR - the ten mile session isn't going to change what you do on the 22nd so why bother?
TR - I would be quite confident in your shoes with all these double doubles and the strength you must be building. I definitely find I am faster just down to long miles alone.
Looked over 2015 training (last campaign) and was surprised to see very similar sessions to this campaign in terms of volume.
Only main difference is that I was doing more sub MP runs in 2015. I guess this is a good experiment in that I won't have run that often at faster than MP this time around.
The comments about this being a good base for more consistent training is at the forefront of my mind. Having been in a rut for so long, just to be running well puts things into perspective.
10 more last night and hammy behaving now although new shoes seem odd. Went for a wider fitting 2E in my asics and seem to be slapping my feet down more, also got cramped toes as a result.
Onwards and upwards.
Just a couple more short runs in the last 24 hours (6M yesterday evening to the nursery, then 5M with the dog this morning).
Like some others I feel like I might need to do a test run to figure out what shape I'm in. On Sunday there's the final Gade Valley training run (just over 20M), so planning to do that as 10M easy then 10M relatively hard and see what that brings. It's pretty hilly though so hard to compare paces.
Then over Easter I'll probably do one final long run with a faster section to see if I can hold 5:45ish for a while. Problem is I always struggle to hit paces on my own and I can't find a suitable local race, so even that won't really tell me.
Anyway, I've done enough marathons now to know what the effort level should feel like, so I guess on the day I just set out at marathon effort and I'll see what the result is.
Wardi -
GBRM - unlikely I'd say. Once you've been allocated a number, they won't re-allocate a new number & chip, and the marshal on the start area won't be informed specifically to let you in.
UDS - I think you're spot on. Read a good article this week about overtraining (mainly in ultras) and how a bad performance makes us perversely think we need to train even harder, rather than back off and take it easier.
I've always done high mileage, and rarely take more than 10 days off a year. Probably run between 50 and 100 mpw every week other than occasional injury since the early 2000's. Just become such a part of daily life, I don't really think about it too much. Have had some sub-standard races, and no doubt I could have run much faster PBs if I'd focused on one type of race one season at a time, but the main reason I do the sport is to have fun at races of all types, throughout the year. Over 100 marathons and ultras in past 18 years, and I don't think I'd swap any of the big adventures in the mountains, for example, to have run a few minutes quicker in a marathon.
Obviously there are target races, but this year I'll go from VLM to the Liverpool marathon, Race to the Tower and Mont Blanc 90k all within 8 weeks. Not going to be competitive at the sharp end of any of them, so happy to do them all in whatever time it takes.
Been knocking out lots of long runs in recent weeks (2.5 hrs+ every weekend & 2 hrs every Weds since Jan), so need to work on a bit of pace. Got down to the track last night for 5 laps - 4 -3- 2 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 with a lap jog in between each set. So 29 laps of effort at just under 6 min/mile pace avg. Not spectacular but glad I completed as I started tired after a tough 17 the night before.
Last of the really big weekends now for a bit
CD - Ditto the above, impressive getting out and getting it done...
LMH - Ditto ditto!
Wardi - Ditto ditto ditto and on a treadmill! Very envious of the trip to S France
Dan - Great endurance, both running and drinking... Nice track session too
Padams - Tasty LR and parkrun combo, plus good progress on the track reps.
UDS - More good volume. On the subject of volume vs. speed vs. rest, I generally find one rest day a week suits me well (recovery and family wise!), but volume trumps speed. The vast majority of my miles have been at an 'easy' pace which I usually base on being average <75% Max HR. This is what I did last year for London, apart from a couple of races (and went sub 2:30 at VLM). This year I've done similar but added in a couple of 'steady state' 60-70 min runs a week where I run at more like 80-85%. Less racing this year though due to the weather, I'll have only done Wokingham and the Salisbury 10 before 22nd April (not counting parkruns)
CW - and I thought I was doing high miles! I've done a few stretches of packing miles in to less days, it's not fun....
SJ - Glad the hammy is behaving itself
6M easy early Thurs and a 10M Steady effort at lunchtime. I wasn't sure how the steady run would go given 50+ miles in the preceding 2 days...The first couple of miles were okish, legs needed to get into gear plus had to navigate Eastleigh town centre busy-ness, with 6:22/6:33/6:17. But then I got into some cleaner air around Fleming Park and the rest of the miles ticked down to 6:10/5:58/5:49/5:53/5:51/5:53/5:40, which is by far the fastest I've ever done a 'Coro10' and so nearly in under an hour (28s over!).
My legs were understandably a bit frazzled this morning so have just stuck to a single 13M first thing. parkrun and a few miles around it will bring up the 100 for the week tomorrow
Al_P - that's ridiculous mileage. 66M in 3 days inc. a Coro 10, and then your legs were a bit frazzled so "just" 13M...
Dan - good to see you doing a bit of speedwork. With your endurance, a bit of sharpening and you should be in good shape.
Padams - no doubt you'll see some decent numbers Sunday.
AL - excellent week there, esp with so many double digit runs and the fast 10. I did 65 in 3 days last week and this week but not on consecutive days !
Dan - orange singlet was last seen vlm 2015, might not still have it. Might be in contact for an orange xempo singlet, I must qualify?
6th and final ouble double today with another 12 and 10. 84m for the week, an easy 6 tomorrw will bring up 90.
I completed my final long long run on Friday. 23 miles with a friend around Milton Keynes skirting Lakes, Rivers, Meadows and general greenery. It was not what most associate with MK that's for sure! I decided to run it fasted with no food intake and Thursday was a zero carb day as well. But the pace was high with the first 15 miles avg 7.15 which for me in a training run is rapid. This was instigated by me... I should have known better! By 18 miles I was in trouble with my energy completed depleted. I learnt a lot from this run. It didn't matter that I completely bonked on this run, it was just training but I don't want to repeat that experience. I haven't actually felt like that in 7 years! And it was a great reminder of just how quickly the wheels can come off.
For those interested in my prep for Brighton and a breakdown of my training miles you can read my update on my blog www.ultradiscostu.co.uk
Good luck to everyone's long run today and tomorrow. Don't go as fast as I did and ear something! :-)
For some reason I haven't worked out yet, GPS consistently measured laps longer going the other way, and strava shows a jump in pace for those (because obviously the real distance is the same. Anticlockwise was pretty accurate, 28 laps came out at a bit under 7 miles, but the other way was the best part of half a mile too long. It can't be because the watch is on my left wrist, that wouldn't be nearly enough. Just as well I don't hang too much on what the GPS is saying, really.
Then parkrun this morning, which I wasn't holding out too much for after yesterday but in the end turned out OK, a lot better than 4 weeks ago when I did a similar run on the Friday. So training is paying off!
CD - it's mental stuff like doing your long run on the track that fills me with such unequivocal admiration of the posters here.
TR - blimey 90 miles is serious stuff. I think you've alluded to not doing so much/any Tri training this campaign? Is the higher mileage because of having more time? Have you done that kind of mileage on the past? Sorry lots of questions, just interested as I always remember you doing lots of Tri training and still managing to squeeze 50 mpw consistently.
Al_P - as padams already said - that is some miles in short space of time. I guess if your body can handle it then this isn't actually that scary. I would be seriously broken but then I am decidedly mediocre just about cutting it at middling club level.
Speaking of mediocre, ran 18 this morning in about 2:15 but it was such hard work. Wanted to do 20 but had had more than enough by 18.
Legs are trashed. Hamstring had a little grumble but it's the general non responsive, heaviness that is alarming. To be expected at this stage I know but going off previous campaigns I've felt a lot better. Dents the confidence a little.
CD - crackers, and cracking. At least you didn' have to keep an eye out for cars!
SJ - defo taper and then race, you will get a ROI and a target to beat in the autumn. You can have a week or two off after Manchester. No tri training here, I used to turbo early morning and swim lunchtime, I've lost the turbo window to my (new) doggy, and run most lunchtime. Like you say I used to run 50mpw + for vlm plus bike and swim, so 80ish miles of running is less aerobics overall. I can only get away with one long session at weekends now too, so no long ride. 1st team cricket will mean being on the road some Saturday's 10.30 ish, so I have time for a short run and some chores before I head off, and then run long early Sunday. Going missing both days would be frowned upon. Maybe I'll get back to tri when I get more time,run only will help me get back to sub3 standard hopefully.
SJ: heavy legs here too.
91M since Monday including some quicker than usual training in the last 3 days & a drubken late night yesterday was never going to be best prep for today's parkrun. 3 lap flat XC course, so glad I opted for spikes. Heavy going & I tired badly. Managed 4th but time was slowest 5K all year.
That's just mad CD.
It's that heavy legged time, dragging yourself out and ticking the box before starting to go mad in the taper........hoping for one more big mileage week next week then a two week taper.