Sub 3



  • It's been going on for weeks Padams - pace is nowhere near where it usually is at this stage of training and whilst doing my current mileage. Hope everyone gets well soon and that you don't come down with it.

    My week starts on Sunday Jooligan.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    TGO - I can vouch for Valencia - its a lovely place to visit too. Will you reduce your taper for Brighton due to recent enforced rest?
    TR - Ive got Wilmslow half a week on Sunday.
    MLR for me tonite
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited March 13
    Menn.. good to see you enjoyed Valencia and managed a cracking time too.  When I ran it 2 years ago I don't remember any inclines - at all!
    LMH.. I did wonder if your recent LR's in headwinds & poor weather might have taken a bit more out of you than usual. The forecast suggests it's going to be Monday when the weather calms down properly, looks fairly settled after that.
    SJ.. FWIW after the Brass Monkey half I did another 5.5m to make it up into a long run.  I reckon it's good marathon prep to run on tired legs but your decision obviously.
    CC2.. congrats on the England vest, hope it's not too expensive if you have to buy your own!
    Padams.. best of luck staying bug free.
    Monster recovery mileage here, 2m yesterday and 3m today!  I tend to find short runs like this better for leg recovery than doing nothing.
  • I hope you're right Wardi and that a couple of easier weeks and some better weather will see me back up to pace. It's being going on longer than the windy weather though, miles are where they were last year (until this week at least) but the pace isn't. Not sure there's much I can do about it though apart from keep plugging away and hoping. I'm always better for a few easy miles rather than rest too. I've been hearing nasty tales of inclines and even hills at York - you haven't led me astray have you? :)
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SJ - you are 3 weeks out this weekend ? 1/2 at mp ? Im doing 1/2 sunday but its 4 weeks out for me.

    LMH - your only 40m in 3 days nade me smile, that 20, 13, 7 or 20, 10, 10? Which is more than most. Defo dont compare pace either its been windy lately. I havnt seen an av pace that starts with a 7 in any of my mlrs all winter. Just do what you can and font waste energy worrying about what you have or havnt been able to do. Weather is an uncontrollable.

    Go for it padams, I'll try to be LT 10min behind you.

    Jools - good that uou have a sub3 aim. No idea re garmin paces, ill be using sundial.

    Menn - hope you get a still day, is that a usual race so you can guage fitness?

    5m minimum early today as was on road early. Hopefully more normal tomorrow, although its taper time now anyway.
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    Hi Wardi - I cant recall anything approaching a hill either. The run itself was my worst to date but I got away with it. 

    Ive not run Wilmslow before TR but it is local(ish) and is billed as fast. Its even got a 1.15 pacer! I did a 13 miler with 7 at hmp last week and the run went well. Hopefully the training for Edi wont dull the legs too much and I can turn up in good shape.

    15 miles today at easy pace which didnt feel that easy...

    Hope peoples niggles are staying in check.
  • 20,10,10,10 so far TR - more heavy rain and high winds today and tomorrow. Enjoy taper time.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    edited March 14
    Padams - Sorry missed your question regarding work flexibility.... It varies quite a lot tbh, sometimes I'm working from home (which saves 90mins of driving for a start) and can plan runs around work phone calls etc. quite easily. I run early doors (05:30) a lot to get the miles in, even when I am in the office, a typical office day during London training is 12-15M AM and 7-8M at lunch. But I also travel a fair bit for work, mostly UK based but abroad too (Singapore, US, Germany, Italy) so then the run management gets harder, especially if I'm driving somewhere and back again in a day, but usually I can fit at least one decent run in. A favourite is to leave early, drive ahead of the rush hour get to my destination well before the scheduled meeting time and then go for a run. I've got use to changing in carparks and deodorant is my best friend on some days...

    Wardi - I'm with you on short n easy is better than nothing recovery approach!

    TR - The weather's looking the better side of reasonable for Sunday at present... Not bad timing with busy work days then ahead of Fleet.

    CC2 - Congrats (hopefully) on earning the ENG Masters vest  :)

    Due to a work trip up to London on Tues I was restricted to a single easy 16M before needing to catch a train. Bit annoying as the reason for going up to town was for a exhibition at Excel which was really a big waste of my time! Yesterday I was WFH (which is usual for a Wednesday, helps with childcare arrangements!), so got up v early (5am) did a couple of hours of work & had breakfast while everyone else was asleep. Helped get the kids & Mrs Al_P out of the door to school/work, had a work conference call and then got out around 11am for another stab at a MLR with 70mins of Sub LT effort work. 
    I was nursing a slighttly sore right quad (outside near knee) and from the start my right calf seemed a bit tight, so I took it easy for the 3-4 warm up miles. Nothing got worse (couldn't really feel the quad running and the calf eased once warmed up) so I got on with it from 4M onwards. First couple of miles I couldn't get my HR up as my legs were clearly being stubborn, but similar to the same run on Sunday after a iffy first mile & a bit my legs came to party and both the HR & pace rose (above 160bpm & below 6m?m respectively). Due to the excessive wind I was running on my local 1.3M loop again which was reasonably sheltered/not upwind for the most part, although there were still a few tougher bits which required some concerntration to keep the effort up! Slightly harder work overall than Sunday's edition, but still very pleased to come in at 5:58/M & 160bpm (84%Max) average for the 70mins. Run overall was 16.4M @6:16/M.

    Will be (mini)tapering for Fleet now, starting with a very easy 7m recovery (8:05/M) this morning.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 14
    Menn - will be interesting to see how your 1/2 time compares with your 7m section, as 7 at hmp is impossible in training imo.

    LmH - 20, 10, 10, 10 is a very good marathon training 4 days, so you will be fine if you are classing that as a bad few days.

    AL - good training there, and good juggling skills. I had a peep earlier and it still looks like enough wind sunday to have a -ve effect, but not enough to be silly. Would have loked a still day but im not going to waste any worry beads on it. I'll be pleased to go quicker than a worthing and hopefully see some sub3 readiness, if its windy i would have gone a bit quicker on a better day. Looking fwd to it as its a new race to me.

    Easy miles in the wind and rain earlier. My feet are telling me i need to break out my next pairof nimbus which i was hoping to save til nearer brighton, but ill do s few easy miles on them tomorrow and saturday, so they are ready for sunday.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    Al_P - OK, it's the 5:30am runs that allow you to squeeze all that in! I'm not quite that dedicated, but in any case I'm usually up around 6am with mini-P having breakfast (my wife is less of a morning person!).

    Very nice MLR there, you must be in about 70min HM shape in good conditions (and tapered) I reckon.

    LMH - very nice mileage. Your legs should come good once you have a bit of a rest (and 10M isn't a rest!).

    5.5M just done inc. a stop in the barbers. Still ridiculously windy in the exposed areas.

  • Nice pace Al.

    It's low mileage for me at this stage.

    I think I'm close to needing another pair of new shoes too TR - need to start thinking about which pair I'm going to race in and either save them or break them in as applicable.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Padams - how many miles in was barbers? Sat there in your shorts ?

    LMH - ive been trying to delay using my stashed pair of shoes, but they'll only have 4 weeks use pre race day. I'll have to find another pair cheap to stash away now.
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    Hope your right TR - 5.37 was average pace on training run. I would be delighted with anything faster than that given it would be over a min pb without specific training.

    Ive got a nike outlet shop that does flash sales 5 miles from my house. I stock up on  pegasus 34 for £40 if I time it right. 
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    Padams - Interesting re: your comment about HM potential, I know I'm in good shape and I think I can trouble my PB (72;56) this weekend. In or around 70mins is a tempting target that I'd love to nail, but maybe too big a jump up at the moment. Got to see what a mini-taper can do, hope the 20M race is out of my legs and the conditions are kind. I will pack my magic shoes just in case I get the feeling on race morning that the stars are aligning....
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    Mennania - I've run Wilmslow many times as it's local. It's known locally as WilmsFAST as it's a very quick course. A few lumps so not pancake flat but the standard is very good so you get pulled along from the gun. All my fastest times are from there.

    TR - yes you're right, 3 weeks out after this week. P&D not counting race week as a week always confuses me.

    I'm up early doors but not to run unfortunately. Usually get the pooch out for a walk then jump in the car for the drove over to Sheffield. I did squeeze in 15 at 4:15am a few weeks back. Roads were quiet.

    15 last night too which was run on fresh legs due to not getting out on Wednesday due to late at work. Chucked 8 miles at sub 6:50 in for good measure. Coming together now. Sunday will be a last minute decision. Weather looks terrible so I might save entry fees and just do one last long run before taper.

  • We are forecast even worse winds this morning - gusting 50mph+ so there's no way I'll be able to run in that which means risking the treadie or heaven forbid taking a rest day. Really hope this weather goes through soon and that people can have good races on Sunday. Ashby 20 next week - was planning an easier week before it to freshen up a little and hopefully have a confidence boost (though I don't race it) but after this week's enforced reduced mileage I'm not sure what to do now.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 15
    Menn - That would be a speedy 1/2 !

    SJ - cracking 15, the one thing i dont have is long blocks of mp. All my mlrs are slow runs home, but it is what it is. Keep yr powder dry is my recommdation for sunday.

    LMH - stop worrying over the weather. Do what you can, and then do what you would normally do before your 20 at ashby. You have still had a marathon relevant week, and it might even do you good long term, and might help you go faster at vlm. Dont get sucked into the i must do xyz cos i always do it (charlie goes there at times). The campaign is consistancy over months and years, and its not like you are ill or injured. Please relax.

    4m easy in the wind and drizzle, my feet like my new nimbus, i felt about an inch taller too.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    Meen - Welcome, a few of us on here have PB'd at Valencia in 2017,  Joe the same time as you, me 6 minutes slower.  A fast race and a great city.
    Alp - Swift, good luck on Sunday. 
    SJ - 4.15 am, nutter!  You've had a great campaign.  The countdown begins. I do like the Manchester marathon. When I ran it in 2017, there was a fast 'local' to me runner running it, so decided the plan there was just to follow him for the first 10 miles.  Made the race so much easier in being able to switch off.  
    LMH - Not a bad looking week.  As TR says its the years of quality training you've invested in.  A sunny still day and you will have a good run @ Ashby 20 - as you say don't race it.  
    The Paris marathon 30 days countdown email has arrived, mixture of excitement and trepidation. A nice thing they do are 2 k races for kiddies on the Saturday afternoon, so booked my 9 year old in for a once in a lifetime run around and under the Eiffel Tower and tire the young fellah out so he doesn't keep me awake for too long on Saturday night - a TR uncontrollable!   
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    SJ - Solid quality MLR bagged :-) I think 4:15am would be pushing my limits of acceptability, I do love the quietness/solitude of early AM runs. When I was in Singapore back in October I was up and out at 5am (work + high daytime temps meant afternoon running was out the question), it was borderline magically running through a big city with only the occasional car, person sweeping the street and the sporadic hum of air conditioning as a soundtrack! 

    LMH - Do you have any sheltered mini loops you can make use of locally to minimise the amount of upwind running you have to do? Better than treadmill monotony IMO... I'm with TR, if you're not racing Ashby then you should be able to structure a marathon relavent week in the lead up. Maybe normal to slightly increased mileage Mon-Weds and then ease back for ther next 3 days to freshen up for the long run (inc some MP?) on Sunday?

    TR - The majority of my MLRs are easy & slow, usually helped by the early hour of the day and my legs not being awake yet. IMO these multiple runs like this a week are highly beneficial for marathon training, great aerobic traning and leg conditioning to running for extended periods. Personally I would now recommend doing 3-4 x 14-16M a week over the more typical 1xMLR and 1x20+M LR.

    OO - Good Plan wrt the Saturday kids race!

    Yesterday consisted of a very easy 7M recovery (av 8:05/M but started quite a lot slower...) first thing and then a more sprightly 6M with running club in the evening, did a looped 5M and then 2 laps of the 1/2M training trail at our clubhouse with 4 to 5 30sec strides, got my legs turing over nice and sharply. 6 more with occasional strides @5:30am this morning and my legs aren't feeling too bad.
  • Essex EagleEssex Eagle ✭✭✭
    Morning all.

    Haven't really had a chance to contribute much over the past week or so, but marvelling at the mileage and hoping everyone stays strong and injury free.

    Thanks for all the kind messages about my Dad - funeral is next Thursday so will be good to be out of this weird limbo period.

    Scaled back week for me ahead of Brentwood Half this weekend - seems a very popular weekend for HMs! I'm planning to run it like my last one in Feb - 85%/tempo, without flogging myself. Would be happy with 1:24ish, although there's an interesting race-within-a-race between me and some of my club mates.

    Race well, run well and most of all, enjoy being out there this weekend guys.   
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    Al_P - Hopefully the weather gods are kind to you at Fleet as you look to be in great shape. Regarding the knee injury........ if there's a freaky way to damage something I'm your man!

    TR - continued good training!

    Wardi - sorry to hear you didn't get what you wanted!

    LMH - you sound like you've having a bit of a rough time. Hopefully it'll pass soon. Any chance of an underlying virus?

    Loads of good training going on. Particularly the long runs! Ended up with 72m last week as my first week back, which included a 17m, a relaxed/HM effort fartlek (20 x 1/1), a steady 10m (6:37 avg), some strides, and hillsprints. This week has been a bit of a mess so far for various reasons but will bowl around Reading HM on Sunday to get a marker for where I am (at the moment it's probably 50:50 as to whether that's over or under 80 minutes), and that will probably put me somewhere around 50m for this week.
  • Glad you like the new shoes TR.

    Good planning OuchOuch.

    I think you need the funeral to start processing things really EE. Hope it goes as well as these things can.

    Al - I've been trying every combination of my usual routes to minimise the wind effect trust me.

    Thanks for the thoughts and words. I think it's life stress to be honest, FiL is still in hospital, I'm still the main support for MiL, no real end in sight and my B12 jab was yesterday and resilience is always low. Running is the only thing I can sort of control if you know what I mean? Anyway, wind gusting 50mph+ made running outside a definite no and I nearly didn't do anything but knew I'd feel worse if I didn't so I headed for the gym and had a very enjoyable(!?!) hour on the treadie - feel much better for that. Forecast says the winds will start to die down from Sunday so I shall hope they are right. I'm going to end this week on around 78 miles I think so quite a cutback. I shall see what the weather is like/how I feel and try to front load next week then it's one lap easy, one lap hard at Ashby (assuming it isn't cancelled - last year snow stopped play).
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Made me laugh that OO described his lad an as uncontrollable.

    Al - hopefully those mlrs will have done me good then. A monday 15 or 16 takes me over 2hrs, and a slightly shorter 2nd mlr a bit undse 2hrs. But anything over 90mins is supposed to be doing ypu good marathon wise, so we'll see if the idea of going a bit longer pays off.

    EE - hope you go well sunday. Once the funeral is over, you'll be able to move on mentally, they tend to loom a bit.

    TT - hope you get a nice surprise sunday then.

    LMH - 78 is still fine. But to be fair with more less life stress maybe should be running lesd miles anyway. You are also supposed to have the odd easier week.

    Ive eaten plenty of cake for comic relief today, best have some beer later to get the essential fluids in.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about the continued stress at home LMH but pleased you got a run in one way or another, that looks a good week so far.  I bought my treadie around 12-15 years ago and it has proved to be a decent investment over the years.
    Best of luck to all the weekend racers, hope it's not too blustery.
    TT.. you must be wishing for a bit of consistency, hope Reading goes well.
    EE.. running is a great stress & grief reliever, it helped me immensely when my folks were in their final days.
    SJ.. nice 15 miler, all seems to be coming together nicely.
    Legs gradually returning to normal in recovery week, 0,2,3,6,5 so far.  Might consider a soggy Parkrun tomorrow as the morning looks like the least windy part of the day, but it is going to be wet all day!
  • TR - like Wardi I use the running to help manage the life stress - and the easier week was scheduled for next week! Hope the weather and your legs play ball tomorrow.

    Wet and windy here this morning Wardi but tomorrow if forecast to be a bit better. Hope you don't get too cold and wet.

    Take it easy today those of you that are targeting a race tomorrow.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Wardi - your last 3 or 4 days is similar to mine.

    LMH - i undsrstand, but marathon training is well beyond running for good physical and mental health. 78 is still a lot of miles, id still make next week your intended week. You dont need to play catch up. You would have run a pb at BM on a still day, ran 20 the next day, and have done back to back and multiple 20s. You are in a good place.

    Ive just had my lowest week since the week after Abo. Ran 23 last saturday and LT than that tues to sat this week. Funny old game. Feels a bit wrong with 4 weeks til the B of the Bang, but tues and weds were enfoced low days due to work and i didnt want to chase  miles after that with fleet tomorrow.
    Looks like the wind is going to spoil it, but im not really fussed, i just plan to have a strong run with some miles before and after. Will keep an eye out for Al, tick tock and a couple of others.

    I dont mind a bit of a taper, but i end up drinking more beer, although maybe thats a bonus.
  • Little M.iss HappyLittle M.iss Happy ✭✭✭
    edited March 16
    Beer has carbs in TR:-) I might not even make the 78 - it's rough here again today (gusting 48mph at the minute according to the Met Office). I'm tempted to call it quits at 68 and take a rest day apart from doing my gym programme but I'm not sure that would actually make me feel any better than a hard/rubbish run in the wind and rain. Tomorrow is forecast better but still not good. I shall try to front load next week and get some decent miles in, it's not as though Ashby is a target race it would just be nice to have a good run and a confidence boost. I hope it calms down for you for tomorrow.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    LMH - you do struggle to appease yourself. Thats where tri training was good you can always do one of the other disciplines. You'll be ok tomorrow, you have a better forecast than down here. As a minimum tomorrow is 13m at harder than i could do it alone (plus a few extra miles), however much the wind spoils it. I did 1.25.1X at solent 1/2 on a tough day/course 4 weeks before Abo, 1.24.11 on a very windy day at worthing 5 weeks ago. It would be good to have something to compare against them tomorrow........but even then I'll  be trying to compare an apple, with a pear and an orange, so probably a waste of some mental beans.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    LMH - sorry to hear things are still rough on the family front. Mrs SJ was broken trying to look after her mother who has dementia when FiL passed away. Toughest battle I've seen her face. She came out the other side, so will you. Bloody annoying tho not feeling able to do the one thing you know will help relieve some stress. Keep the faith. Trust your training. You've done this before.

    OO - junior run under the Eiffel tower justsounds awesome.

    Wardi - looks like recovery is going well. Glad to see not too much damage. Have you had your treadie serviced at all in the time you've had it?

    TT - good luck at Reading tomorrow and continued improvements.

    EE - best of luck at Brentwood. Hope it takes your mind off your recent loss, even for 80 odd minutes.

    TR - good luck tomorrow. You deserve a calmer day to see where you are at. I think I recall a comment about not having the marathon effort stuff in your training, you do, these halves you tip up to are exactly that. I don't have the halves so have to add some miles into my regular running.

    Good luck anyone racing tomorrow too. I know there are a few 20 milers including the two I still might do up here. Wrexham and Trimpell up at Lancaster. Forecast is improving as is my attitude to going to do one of those races. For no other reason than the thought of getting my last long run done with company. It will be structured though, last 30 mins at marathon effort or similar.

    Shocking here today so I opted for the gym and treadmill. Probably got just as wet though with the lack of wind cooling. Manchester number arrived. Almost time for game-face. 
  • Thanks guys. I'm not the most confident as you know. I too opted for the treadie again today as it stayed 'march of the wheelie bin' windy and I can't do anything worthwhile or enjoyable in that. Didn't have much time as mark was with me but did knock out an enjoyable and progressive seven miles.

    Is the forecast really bad for tomorrow darn sarf then TR? We're back to winds gusting in the 30's which should feel laughable after the last week - though I may get a bit wet.

    Can you still get an entry into those 20s then sj? I'd do one if so.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
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