Sub 3



  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Im on a reverse taper, so did 12m today. Was nice and warm, so hopefully ive sweated out the last of the lurgy now.

    Think I'll follow Menn and put in some MP work prior to Yeovil, as ill get 4 or 5 weeks of training in.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Joolska - That sounds like a good plan.  That consistency is key. 
    Wardi - ha ha, it was a good moaning. Glad it was last Sunday not this, 25C forecast in Paris today - a bit hot. I slightly preferred Paris to Barca and Valencia, just because I love the city. All were excellent marathons, flat and fast.   Might do Paris again next year. 
    TR - Just keep ticking over now until Yeovil, you would have received a training boost from your Brighton run. Maybe 1 or 2 lsr and some faster tempo stuff.    My plan now is London, then a 37m Cornish coastal run in June,  as the bigger picture is to run the OCC @ UTMB in August 2020 and need 3 more points.  Then a UK and overseas marathon to finish the year (Cornwall/ Malaga). 
    Menn - You seem to have kept your base fitness intact through your injury, so hopefully this is all you need. 
    Paris recovery has gone well,  slightly tight groin. A fast few miles this week and that's it.  Looks like London will give us all far better conditions than 2018.
  • Your Cornish coastal run sounds interesting OuchOuch but I'm guessing it's hilly? Good to hear that you are recovering well. I'm much preferring this weather!

    Hope you are lurgy free now TR - don't go overdoing it, it's still about recovery really.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    OO - thats another good year planned. The coastal run sounds good (if its nice weather). Wht distance tempos do you suggest?

    LMH - lurgy is going, ive stopped producing snot, just need to clear whats left.

    As im on a reverse taper i was back on the short and easy today, to be fair ydays 12 was easy too. As OO said i will hopefully get a boost from last week, so another easy week will do me good, although i feel ready to rumble again.
  • Good to hear TR. In my experience it takes a good two weeks to feel the benefit. I think another easy week is a good idea.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    9 easy for me today to bring up 41 for the week. It was such a glorious day to be out for a bimble that I felt blessed that I could run at all! Nice pub roast for lunch and now to finish off some easter baking! 
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    SJ.. I found a video of you crossing the line at Manchester, looked like someone had shot you in the hamstring!  A mixture of joy and 'ouch' :|
    TR.. good to see you back in double figures again & hopefully the lurgy is on it's way out.
    OO.. from my brief experience of the Cornwall coastal trail that sounds like a testing ultra!
    Nice progress Jools, almost back in double digits too!
    6.5m yesterday inc Parkrun (25 secs quicker than last time so progress of sorts).  Last MLR of 11.7m today, as we had guests staying I couldn't get out until the warmth of the afternoon but quite enjoyed it anyway.  Cotton wool time beckons.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Hopefully double digits next week, Wardi.  Off to enjoy borscht, kulich and paskha for dinner.  Russian Easter is still a week away, but only English Easter gives me extra free time to do baking!
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    TR - I reckon a few 5K sessions 10 seconds a mile faster than HMP would be beneficial for you, once you've recovered from Brighton.
    Yes the Cornish ultra should be a beauty, plenty of up and down, at least 7 hours and one to complete not compete in. 
    6 days to go, how are we all feeling? 
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Wardi - thanks for not posting that video! I won't go looking for it either haha. I think the sudden stop triggered it. Hadn't been a problem in last 10k so can only think it was that. Looking good for London. 

    TR - now that the dust has settled a little I have reflected that I guess it was a job well done. I'm not one to go overboard though. However, I can't look past the fact I ran 3:12 in MCR '18 and ran 2:55 a year later. So I guess that is a decent return on investment. Glad to read the lurg has cleared up for you too. I have some gunk lingering but not affecting running. Agree with OO regarding doing some leg speed/speed endurance sessions. I ran 8*1km off 90 seconds about 5 weeks out which gave me a lot of confidence that I was in good shape. I think I averaged ~3:35-3:40 for those k reps.

    Joolska - good to see you enjoying your running again and nice weekly total which must be a big mental boost to be chalking up some decent weeks relatively speaking. Hope the double-digit runs go well. 

    LMH - this weather is wonderful but a little oppressive for me. However, helps me keep the effort easy so thankful of that. Hope you are enjoying it. 

    After not running at all in first week after MCR it was good to get a few runs in last week culminating in 75 minutes yesterday on trails which felt great. All things considering, I think I've pulled up pretty well from the marathon with no niggles or soreness. Hope to continue rebuilding this week with more easy running. 

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jools - double digits will be a good landmark.

    SJ - the benefits of back to back campaigns ! Hopefully you can shave a bit more off in the Autumn. Contentment with a job well done is a nice feeling to have. Im chasing some of that.

    8m super easy today.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    6 miles super easy for me this morning.  My legs felt pretty knackered after 6 miles with strides and 10 hilly miles walked on Saturday and then 9 hilly miles run yesterday - but hopefully in a couple of weeks when the training benefits have kicked in I'll be glad!
  • Nice work in Paris OO. Sounds like your plans for the rest of 2019 are well cemented as well. I have no clue what I'm doing after next Sunday!

    Last double-digit run yesterday - 13M. It was a bit of a shocker actually in the afternoon sun. I certainly put more effort in than I would have liked for the pace. I'm glad today's a scheduled day off. MP test run on Wednesday, I wonder what the marathon elves will bring me.
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    Hi folks,

    its been months since I've posted saying I was gonna do Boston, and I honestly had hoped to contribute more to the thread and find it a source of inspiration as I did over 10 years ago when I first targeted going sub 3. Sadly life is just a bit busier these days and it kinda fell to the bottom of my wish list most weeks..

    In any case, I did manage to make it to the start line at Boston, and had a pretty decent build up. The winter over here, while certainly f'ing cold, wasn't as harsh as normal so running was rarely interrupted. That said I did dice with hypothermia a few times, and had the don the 'stabilicers' once or twice.

    I knew in the build up, that all being well that I'd be there or thereabouts the 3 hour mark. My park run times indicated around 3:05'ish, but my log runs (to HR) indicated pretty close to 3hours. I helped myself as much as I could with stricter diet, beetroot juice in the build up, and nice pair of Nike race shoes :) given the course at Boston (downhill start) my plan was to settle into 6:40-6:50 pace at the start and then check the old HR after 6-7 miles and hope that it was around 160...

    for a large city marathon, the getting to the start line is a pretty civilized processed. The start was good, but I was in Wave 2 pen 4 as I qualified with a 3:17 (in september). I don't know if you know the Boston route but it starts in a small town 26 miles outside of the city centre, and the road is narrow. This meant the first 3 miles being surrounded/blocked, mostly, by runners doing 45 secs a mile slower than me, which lead to quite a bit of frustration. It wasn't until miles 3-4 thing thinned out.. Anyway, apart from a slow first mile, and lots of running off the side of the road, I was quickly settling into  6:4x pace.. A couple of quick checks of the HR around 7 miles showed it sitting nicely around 157-158. Spot on..

    The miles where ticking over nicely, but at around 8 miles I noticed my ass muscles where sore, or at least I was having to think about a discomfort in that area that wasn't normal :)  hhmmm.....

    Anyway I ploughed on through the rolling hills and down hills, pretty much keeping on pace, and going through 1/2 way in 1:29:10 (ish).. At this point I had to admit to myself I was (slightly) on the wrong side of comfort of where I'd want to be.. I certainly wasn't in blow up territory, but knew the 2nd half was going to be tough. 

    So I ploughed on. At this point downhills where becoming at even bigger pain in the ass and and i welcomed the flats.. Mile 16 has the biggest and longest downhill second before the infamous Newton hills (where I live as it happens). So clenched up and made the most of the free speed, and hit the hills.

    I figure would lose around 90-120 secs on the hills (of which there are four). The first clocked up 7:03 mile and the second a 7:00 and then I threw in a 6:45 in between the 2nd and 3rd.. running up the hills was nice as it was using different muscles.. things going well

    Going up the hills I 'allowed' my HR to go up to 165, although, and unusally, it was very hard to get it up (so to speak). On the 3rd and 4th( the largest) I clocked a 7:10 and 7:30.. So all in all not too bad..

    Over the top of the biggest hill and I was presented with, yes you guessed it, another f'ing downhill.. I grimaced and let myself go and got  6:4x miles.. Ok..

    then it just got really hard for the last 4 miles or so.. and I had a series of 7:00 to 7:15 minute miles. Everything (not just my ass) was in agony, and I couldn't get my my HR up at all. Wheels not comming off, but fck me if I stopped there was NO way I'd get going again....

    When I turned on Boylston with a few hundred yards to I had 2:50:4x on the clock. So I decided to soak up the atmosphere and crossed the line in 3:01:22 (just call me Dull).. 

    I then promptly nearly collapsed ! Walking was really hard, and legs where abs agony..  Its taken a full 6 days for my legs not to be sore... 

    So Boston is fantastic ! but prep for those hills and down hills ! Total killers !

    Definitely got my running mojo back, and will target a sub 3 in the summer on a flatter course...

    I meant to say I bumped into Dan A at our local park run on the Sat before.. Looks like he had an very rough day out, hope things are ok.. 

  • The Holy fckn Labcoat! What fckn next the return of Moray Jim 😂

    As you were.
  • You're not really selling it to me Cartman............any ideas for an autumn marathon?

    None of us ever know ES - can have the best build up in the world and the worst race and vice versa, it's why I think it's so important to enjoy the process (or at least most of it).
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • CharlieWCharlieW ✭✭✭
    Cartman -- great work, sorry about the hellish quad DOMS though!

    CRAB -- hello

    Wardi -- well run including the parkrun

    Mennania -- here was my MP test protocol on Sunday, so one week out from the race, with fresh legs (2d off), and a mini carb load the day before so no excuses:
    1. 6M @ 7 m/M as a brisk warm-up/pre-fatigue
    2. 10K accurate at "MP" effort, i.e. marathon HR from past experience, should feel sustainable muscle-wise
    3. After that I did 10M hills/overdressed heat stress, as that worked out well last year. Significantly higher HR reached in this (at 8:30 m/M or worse, eventually) than in the MP bit, as I got super-hot and lost a lot of fluid -- which was the point of course.

    So what did I get... well the MP test came out at 2:46:40 pace, which given I've had a long succession of sub-2:40s is pretty poor, but is consistent with recent training and not far off the 2:44:30 ish I got at Chester last autumn. My legs were fine at that pace, though my HR was a touch higher than I'd like at 148bpm avg. (145 or 6 would have been better, though maybe my norms have crept up a bit in the last year or two.) So I fear I've fallen off a bit of a performance cliff since last year's VLM (2:39:22 in the heat). I can't bear the thought of not aiming for sub-2:45 though, so I'll do that pace-wise, and if my HR is unexpectedly low then I might allow myself to go quicker. I really want to make it 10 consecutive sub-2:45s at VLM... but I need this one more to make that!

    After a day off (well just a modest bike ride and hike with the Mrs) yesterday, I started my taper routine of increasingly short tempo runs round the local park this morning. On autopilot now, on final glideslope, etc.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Charlie.. nicely done getting the test run done & out of the way..  FWIW on your prospects..
    I had no indicators that York would be an above average run for me last year.  It wasn't an 'A' race for me so I didn't feel particularly 'up' for it.  Throw into the equation the weather on the day was wretched (very wet throughout) so I felt even more 'meh' about it.  Turned out to be my quickest marathon in 3 years so sometimes we do surprise ourselves on marathon day.  Looks like a cool day on Sunday too so one thing less to worry about; hope the wind speed drops a bit though.
    Cartman.. congrats on a great effort, I had heard that the downhills there are to be respected & trained for.  A very 'Dull' finishing time too. :)
    SJ.. I can match that finishing drama.. back in the 'warm' LM of 2007 I had quite a decent run and got to the bottom of the Mall wondering if my PB at the time (3:06.09) was beatable/a   possibility.  I tried my best impersonation of a sprint finish and once over the line promptly barfed over the right hand finish line scaffold - thankfully not caught on camera!  I clocked 3:05.59 so worth it in the end.
    Real world problems.. it's taper week and several well meaning relatives and friends have bought me four large Easter eggs which are scattered around the house.  Fortunately I was weighing in a touch light before the weekend. :|  Thankfully all of my local supermarkets had sold out of Cadbury's Creme eggs by the middle of last week.
    Venturing out for a steady 5m shortly, if only to retain calorific balance.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Cartman - That was a good read and run, thanks for sharing.  Marathon near-misses are always a set of 'if onlys' but if only you didn't hit the congestion at the start.  A great return to fast marathoning - whats next? 
    CW - I reckon with the vibe on the day and the good temperatures,  you will do better than you fear, which is still mightily bloody impressive.  
    ES - and that's the magic of VLM!

    In case you forget and to avoid finding yourself in Homebase gazing at shrubs for your herbaceous borders next Sunday:
    LMH, CC2, CharlieW, Wardi, 
    OO # 30183  Yellow start  >2.49  >2.51  >2.53 
    JoeB, DanA, CD, ES, Al_P, TT (training run), Crab, Ode. 
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    Cartman - solid run and great report. Sounds like you couldn't have gone any quicker on the day. I also remember finding the downhills very painful at Boston and was actually looking forward to the uphills after a while!

    OO - sounds like you had a good race. It doesn't really make me want to do Paris though, with the wave setting off ahead of you and randoms being on the course at various points.

    Hope you're all ready for Sunday and looking forward to reaping the rewards for your months of hard work. At least it won't be as warm as last weekend!

    Had a really nice long weekend with some training but not a huge amount. 10k pacer on Friday - finished in 39:46, so about perfect for a "sub-40" in my opinion, and the km splits were all 4:00 +/- 5 secs (very gradually downhill out and uphill back which caused most of the variation).

    Then 11M on Sunday morning at around 6:50s, and 6.5M easy on Monday morning. Monday afternoon I spent a while sorting my bike out and then did 5M on it just to check it still worked and I didn't need to attach some stabilisers!

  • CW - if you have really fallen off the cliff edge then you're welcome to join me on the slippery slope to mediocrityville.  I suspect though that you're not there yet, more likely it just takes you a bit longer than previously to get over those big mileage days that you do, so your pace testing session wasn't as good as it might be.  You'll be fine on Sunday, you always are!
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    Hi All,
    Getting all excited about Sunday now  B)

    Cartman - Enjoyed your Boston report, sounded like a real tough one

    CW - Trust in what you've done, the lack of injuries and put it down to taper-itsis, you'll be fine ;)

    Padams - Text book race pacing!

    LMH - Re: your question on the heat training, I did start doing it early this year (3 weeks out) to guard against a repeat of last year's temperatures (which would have been the case if London this year was the same date as 2018, thank you Easter!). However regardless of the temperature on Sunday, heat adaptation is worthwhile to help improve your bodies ability to remove metabolically generated heat from within...

    Full on taper-time now for me, tried and failed to run a quick time at my local (twisty slow) parkrun at the weekend, should have made the effort to go down to Poole Park, where the top 15 ran sub-17, but couldn't be arsed with fighting the Easter traffic. Most of the rest of the weekend was spent down at the beach messing about on paddleboards and trying to catch crabs.

    Plan for Sunday is to go through halfway in 74 and see from there. Got plans for a bit of a sub 2:28 train with a few others, fingers crossed I can hang on for the ride.
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    VMLM 2019:

    OO # 30183  Yellow start  <2.49  <2.51  <2.53 
    Al_P #1839 Champs start/White & green sides New Forest Runners vest/ A<2:28 B<2:29:30(PB) C<2:30 
    TT (training run)
  • Al P - Should have come over to King's Park to run with me and McTaggart! (we managed 16.12 & 16.21) Which beach were you on? The folks beach hut is on Branksome Dene chine. Shame the water was too cold to go in..I'll look out for you Sunday, i'll be at 8-9 before the right hand turn at Wetherspoons Surrey quays.

    Good luck everyone else, i'll be at the Red Lion at some point (although I think I only know AL and CW by sight..)

  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    SC2 - Think I would have struggled on Saturday even with someonw to chase! Opted for a MLR parkrun sandwich, as I can run to Lymington Woodside and back from home... did have an eye on the course record (16:33), but talking to the course layout volunteer that was set on an amended summer course which was know to be a tad short and doesn't have the 6 x 180deg dead turns (2 per lap) of last saturday's run (winter course). Our beach of choice is the sheltered inside of Hurst Spit at Keyhaven, perfect paddleboarding spot when the tide's in, which it was in the middle of the day over the long weekend  B)
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019

    Al_P - I drove down from Hertfordshire to Poole on Saturday morning (left at 7:30am) and traffic was fine, so you probably would have been OK.

    SC2 - I ran the stretch from Sandbanks to Branksome Dene Chine on Sunday morning (and around Poole Park), so would have run past your beach hut. Doubt you were there that early in the morning though. My mum lives about 0.5M from Branksome Chine.

    Weather's looking good for Sunday so you lot won't have any excuses!

    10.5M for me last night inc. the club track session. Our new house is a bit further from the track (just over 2M) which adds a bit of mileage, but the uphill run home wasn't much fun, especially as I hadn't been on the track for a couple of months. My hip was also feeling quite ropey, but not so bad today.

  • Thoughts with all those trying to avoid the Easter treat temptation during the taper. I've been making like Augustus Gloop since Brighton - put on 6lbs last week lol.

    Had a full week off running and logged gentle five milers Monday and today.

    The London Marathon tracker is now live - have added Joe and Al. Share your bib numbers on here if you want a cheer around mile 10!
  • Little M.iss HappyLittle M.iss Happy ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Al - I love the heat, seem to fare better in it than most. Struggle when it's cold though.

    My number is 30905. CRUK vest with Julie on the front. If you shout Jules instead I'll know it's someone who knows me.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    LMH # 30905   CRUK 
    OO # 30183  Yellow start  <2.49  <2.51  <2.53 
    Al_P #1839 Champs start/White & green sides New Forest Runners vest/ A<2:28 B<2:29:30(PB) C<2:30 
    TT (training run)

  • TmapTmap ✭✭✭
    Good luck to London runners.  Enjoyed Cartman's report!

    In the middle of Green Belt Relay prep here (for which I'm race director). Going well, largely because I'm currently off work so it's not the usual panic, and because Dr. Tmap does most of the hard work.

    Training for Abingdon is starting too.  Am enjoying training on Ascot race course because the inner perimeter is smooth tarmac, gently tilted, and almost exactly 1.5 miles so it's like running on a really big athletics track and pacing is quite easy.  When you're not really training it's a bit bland but when you are it's flipping great.  Really not run in 5 years, so 7.20 miles feel really hard.  Long way to go.

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