Sub 3

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  • Hawkins would get my vote too. Hope it's just taper madness selbs but I have woken up with a sinus headache, sore throat and slightly raised RHR.

    Thanks for the explanation OuchOuch. I hope you get the op soon.

    Mennania - I used to run in Asics Kayano which might suit? Not as cushioned as the Hokas though.

    Yesterday's performance definitely had more validity for me.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Isn't Kosgei's time now the world lead and not the world record, same as Paula's was considered? The IAAF didn't respect Paula's time due to Male pacemakers. Did Kosgei not have Male pacemakers? I didn't watch.

    Hawkins for me too just for his gutsy display in Doha and for bouncing back from the Comm games experience. 

    LMH - I'm sure it's just taper madness and being out of routine etc. Everything aches here and sore throat too. Rest and sleep this week is paramount. 

    TR - even after the explanations I still don't understand the RunBritain rankings. I'm still a poweroften guy :)

    York  20th October 
    LMH
    Wardi
    SJ - #859
    Al P
    Njord
    Charlie W

    Abingdon  
    Selbs
    TR
    Tick Tock
    ES

    Frankfurt  27th Oct 
    JoeB

    New York 3rd Nov
    CD
  • SJ - Kosgei had male pacemakers, but these days they call that the world record and there's a separate 'women-only' WR for races where women get a separate start (unlike Chicago) and no male pacemakers.  Paula held that too until a couple of years ago, I think it's at 1:17 or so.

    Hawkins would get my vote but there's not a cat in hell's chance that Sir Mo won't be given the spot ahead of him.
  • Menn - I won some Hoka cliftons at the Berlin expo which are being delivered today so I'll let you know how I get on with them. Adidas Ultraboost are like wearing slippers, they could be worth a try.

    Hawkins should definitely go instead of Mo, I don't think Mos heart/head is truly in the marathon
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SJ - as OO said its only a guide.

    Menn - neutral cushion shoes would be saucony triumph, nike vomero, asics cumulus or nimbus. Id get something on offer as i guess its a short term thing.

    I have backache but my legs still feel ok, the two tonne stage is obviously still to come.

    6m inc 2 av 6.27. Pissed down as usual.
  • Little M.iss HappyLittle M.iss Happy ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    5 miles, nowhere near MP let alone faster, in the dry.

    sj - pretty common symptoms for me, I expect them to go as quickly as they came. Slept even worse than usual last night which is probably the main cause.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Big weekend of running coming up - Hope everyone is enjoying the taper, managing the madness and ramping up their mental training for Sunday.  :)
  • Hi all,

    Have followed the group for a little while on and off and thought I'd wade in myself now especially as I could do with a little advice. Apologies for the long post!

    Background: I ran a 3:02 marathon in Stratford in April off the back of a sub 1:24 half. The course had a decent hill and some gravelly sections but overall I just felt I missed the sub 3 because I hadn't focused enough on the long training runs (either doing 20+ miles at 8 min miles or high teens at 7:30). So I entered Abingdon hoping to improve on all of that. Work got in the way and I knew I wouldn't get prepared in time so I signed up for Nottingham at the end of November as the sub 3 attempt. I've been aiming for 50ish miles a week and got a new half PB of 1:23:24 at Cheltenham followed up with 1:24:50 at Henley yesterday with a 400ft hill in the middle. All in all feeling pretty comfortable at the sub 1:25 half pace. Problem is, up to this stage I've not been hitting the long run distances with one run/walk of 19 miles although I did manage a 16 miler at TMP.

    So my questions are (if anyone would like to help) what pace should I run Abingdon this weekend as a training run? With a tough half in the legs yesterday (which was silly but I enjoyed being up nearer to the front of the field) it feels like almost anything will do. 8 minute mile pace and get the benefits of 3hrs30 on my feet? And then beyond that, with limited time left, how can I best improve the endurance. I know the benefits of speed work but I presume my weekly focus should be about getting the most out of the long run? 4 weeks including Abingdon of 20+ mile runs on Sundays? Perhaps one of them as an uptempo run? The plan I've been "following" has consisted of a midweek TMP run (up to 16 miles) and then longer weekend runs up to 22 miles. I've been subbing the TMP run out for the halfs in the last few weeks so it's really only the long run that's been missing.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    You lot have been busy, must be taper time! Some nice training but you all, sounds like you're all ready to go next weekend.

    I enjoyed the sub2, even though it made me miss parkrun. Given the pace he ran the last km, I have to think he could go a fair bit quicker. They need to get a fit Bekele and Eliud at Berlin next year - fairly sure the WR would go again and would probably be a great race.

    I went out for 40 mins straight after the sub2, and as others have said, I felt much more sprightly than usual, visualising the sub2!

    Then 11.5M yesterday morning, almost all off-road exploring some new areas which was fun, even if it meant the pace was down. That completed a better week for me with 46M - no rest days, but nothing particularly long.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Welcome RunJoe - get ready for a range of opinions.

    Your knocking loudly on the door of a sub3 marathon and with a good run-up to Nottingham and good conditions on the day, your in with a great chance.  You've knocked the nail on the head in that you need to do more long runs and build-up speed ensurance (and half marathon races are great for this) As you've run 1*19 miler I think running 26 miles at Abingdon could risk at worst an injury or at least really comprise your training plan for Nottingham.  To get the most out of the day, and as you ran a fast hm y'day if I were you (famous last words) I would be tempted to do a proper run/ walk strategy if the aim is to finish it or just run 20-21 miles of it at lsr pace, and treat as your first proper 20m+ and then do another 20m in 2 weeks time.  You really need to do 4 or more of these in the marathon run-up. 
  • Hi Run Joe - Nice consistent work on the halfs.

    I would say dont do it at all and just do a 20 lsr but I guess thats not a pallitable option.

    Otherwise, what Ouch Ouch said. 
  • Cripes, things are moving fast here. I tried an MP trial at the weekend, but confused myself by not noticing that my HRM strap had died, so my watch was reporting wrist-based HR. Overall though I think I'm going to be somewhere in the 2:50-2:55 range at York (conditions are looking good, currently).

    Welcome RunJoe. I'm a huge believer in long runs -- I often run full marathons in training, it really works for me. So I'd certainly work on getting some proper long runs in yourself. Running Abingdon might be a bit of a shock, but I don't think it will do you any harm if you take it easy pace-wise. You can always drop out if things get too bad!
  • Thanks all. I'm aware that in an ideal world I wouldn't be running Abingdon but having entered I thought I'd just treat it as a Sunday long run (with a medal). I think at 8 mile pace I should be ok up to around the 20 mile mark and then it'll just be a case of getting home from there. In my head I just need to keep reminding myself that it's a training run and I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm hoping it will also provide a good test of the fuelling strategy and how my body reacts to the gels as I know I didn't get it quite right at Stratford.

    We shall see. On a positive note the spring marathons don't see so far away. The disappointment of Stratford was that I realistically had to wait 6 months to give it another crack. If Nottingham doesn't come off then April will come around pretty quick!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Im with Menn, dont run Abo at all, you chose 1/2s over long runs, now you need some long runs, try to get as many in as possible now, including some decent lengths mlrs as well. No need to chase long run pace either, your 1/2 is quick enough and you have done 16 at mp, how manys times ?..........how many other runs around 15m or more.......do you run mlrs?.........you sound well placed to run a decent half to me.........howvever, if you say youve done 16 at mp a few times, then maybe you should have tapered for Abo and gone for sub3, too late now though after yday........Abo is best skipped for me.
  • In this training set since 16 weeks out from the average weekly mileage has been 42 (compared to 34 this time before Stratford). There's around six half marathon distance runs at TMP or quicker. Then there's been 3 longer runs (19 miles, 15 miles, 15 miles) at 7 min 30 pace and that single 16 mile TMP. I'd say in terms of the weekly mileage, recovery and my half mar consistency (and perceived effort) I'm in a better place than last time. And actually looking at my training from last time I'd only done one 18 miler at this stage but I did manage a really consistent last 4 weeks before taper. I'm probably just disappointed in myself that I had wanted to be really confident at this stage of breaking 3 with some more long runs under my belt.

    If the alternative to running Abingdon is to go out and do a 20 miler from home I can't see the harm in run/walking the event itself. It's not as if I run 20 miles at home and have my feet up the rest of the day. But this might be me showing my naivety and I have asked the question on a forum after all so I should expect a few people to tell me it's a terrible idea!
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    RJR - That sounds a good plan as every marathon is a great learning experience.  Reminds me of a marathon I ran in 2016 off a longest run of 13 miles, but with 15 prior marathons and lots of sub 3's in the legs, just ran it really slowly - finished in 3.20, my only ever negative split. Legs ached a few days later but really enjoyed it and showed Pina Colada SIS gels are the best. Good luck - your on the list. 

    York  20th October 
    LMH
    Wardi
    SJ - #859
    Al P
    Njord
    Charlie W

    Abingdon  
    Selbs
    TR
    Tick Tock
    ES
    RJR91

    Frankfurt  27th Oct 
    JoeB

    New York 3rd Nov
    CD

    In other news, couldn't resist and applied for a place in the Marathon du Mont Blanc for June 2020.  Its a ballot so fingers crossed. Possibly the A race for 2020.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    York  20th October 
    LMH
    Wardi - #3892
    SJ - #859
    Al P
    Njord
    Charlie W

    Abingdon  
    Selbs
    TR
    Tick Tock
    ES
    RJR91

    Frankfurt  27th Oct 
    JoeB

    New York 3rd Nov
    CD

    Good luck with the UTMB ballot OO, is it the marathon distance you are going for?
    Those old enough to remember former poster Brian61 from a few years back.. I hear he will be running at York too.
    Charlie.. yes I have my fingers crossed for a decent day, looks encouraging for both York & Abo ATM.
    5k on the treadie today just to keep ticking over.  I am theatre bound tonight so will have to sit still for a while. :|

     
  • Wardi - Its a separate marathon to the UTMB ones. I am also hoping to run the OCC at the UTMB in August 2020 (32 miles) over roughly the same trail.  Odds are longer and you apply in December.  So two rabbits in the hat, over the moon if one is pulled out, even better if two.
  • Good luck in the ballot OuchOuch.

    runjoe - I'd also say ditch Abingdon and try to get a few weeks of consistent training in. 26 miles is different from 20 especially with your lack of long runs and if you do Abingdon I think there's a good chance you'll end up taking a few days off. It really looks as though you've been half rather than marathon training. You are trying for sub 3 off quite low weekly mileage anyway and have only run one what I would count as long run - 16 is a MLR when marathon training.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    I still say ditch it too. From that training detail, i ilke the mp runs, but youve not run for 2hrs yet? And 15m was only done twice......even if you do 20 this weekend that is a massive jump and will take 2hr 40 at 8mm. Really you should do 16, 18, 20 over 3 runs, but you will be seriously underprepared still. You could risk, 18, 20 and 22. When was the last 15? Any extra miles yday after the 1/2?
  • RJR - everything you say is right, youre getting good conversions and results from low mileage too. You might even be nudging under 3 as you are now anyway given historical performances -  I would suggest a lot more to come off more structured preparation and training.  

    Most people would argue running 26 miles at this stage is more likely to have a negative impact upon your performance at Nottingham - To give yourself the best chance you can given where you are now,  you should be focussed on the end of Nov,  but I appreciate that youve got the bib. Im guilty of running races that I shouldnt for the same reason.
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    welcome R91.  I'm with the others that say don't run the whole thing, it will compromise your main focus of Nottingham too much i think.  Think you will go under 3 easily once you get the consistent mileage and longer runs in, your weekly mileage looks much like mine when i started out (in the low 30's for first marathon).  Once you get the consistency, and knock out 6-8 proper LSR's in a campaign, your marathon time (and half) will fly down i think, so save Abingdon for another time, or be prepared to pull out around 20ish miles i think.

    6 miles on the tready this avo, 2 easy, 2 around hmp (but not effort, too easy on these treadmills, still convinced badly calibrated, but got the old ticker working a bit) and 2 easy.

    good luck in the ballot OO.

  • I don't think it's just the calibration selbs it's the whole just picking your feet up and putting them down again rather than propelling yourself forward.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    My flynits arrived, they need sunglasses. Should have gone black not red, they are bright orange, folks will think ive got the magic shoes when i havnt !

    A few localish folks did Chicago yday, 2 did IoW 1/2 x 2, 1 did solent 1/2 ×2 plus 8mins (he did that last autumn too), that would give me 2.55 (2x iow) or 2.53, which hopefully backs up my sub 255 hopes.
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭
    Lol TR I got one black and one “red” and wore the black today. I don’t mind those as a casual shoe either.  But my 7 year old loves the red!! Think I will save those for jog commutes and long training runs. 
  • RJR - I must admit, if it was me and Abo was on my doorstep, I'd be tempted to do it.  I'd probably also run it too quick (or try to) and it would end up doing more harm than good.  But if you can keep a proper lid on it (like around 3:30 or so) and be prepared to DNF at the first sign of trouble, then fair enough.

    I must say though, your plan seems to have a lot of fairly long TMP runs in it, and the pace of the long runs at 7:30 seems a bit quick for a 3 hour plan.  Six HMs at MP?  Blimey...,  
  • Blimey, a lot of posting in the last 24 hours!

    I agree that Hawkins deserves the call-up on merit, which is why UKA won't give it to him...

    RJR - I think you've got enough advice without me wading in!

    Selbs, TkTk - post-race debrief in the Spread Eagle sounds good to me. I'm not driving, so on for a few beers for sure. Join us TR and RJR!

    13M at 7:07 pace yesterday - a bit silly I know but it all feels easier when tapering! 6M recovery today.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    ES - yes I'll be there. We sat on the track in the sun last yr. But im happy to have a beer in the pub, ill be gasping for a beer by Sunday. No idea where that pub is, ill have a look at google maps saturday.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    OO.. I hear the Gran Canaria marathon is not happening in January, new date TBA.

    TR.. bright red/orange shoes make you run faster, well known superstition. ;)
  • I had black ones TR - they didnt work properly. Shouldve gone for orange, theyd have been Ok I reckon.

    I had a beer yesterday - Welsh Pale Ale - proper nice.
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