Sub 3

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  • Not good TR - but as selbs says promising that you can still run at that pace. I hope you can get it sorted. I have a physio appointment tomorrow to hopefully iron out my aches and pains.

    Mennania - a physio should be able to tell you if you have a leg length discrepancy and if so whether it's anatomical or functional. Mine is anatomical and I use orthotics which have stopped a lot of the issues it caused. Not sure if you've seen this: https://thesports.physio/2014/01/11/the-long-and-short-of-leg-length-differences/
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    That forecast would do then selbs, i cant get too excited about the weather though, as i usaully cop so many bad race days........although this one is inland.

    Menn - back ache isnt unusual, years of sports and a 52 yr old back ! If it was 23m at 8mm sunday i wouldnt even worry, a couple of paracetamol and get my trrainers on. Same thing before the Harting hill race amd IoW 1/2 freed me up a bit, with all the thumping up and down hill. Often its the driving more than the running on race day that is an issue.
  • Menn - that story made me laugh!

    Padams - good strong mile reps.

    My magic green shoes arrived yesterday so donned them today for 8M with 2 @ MP. First impressions: I found walking in them very weird, like your feet just want to fly off the ground. I found running in them more comfortable and didn't feel much different than normal - I usually wear fairly cushioned shoes. I found tight corners a bit tricky though, and also when I had to stop suddenly once for a car, I took an extra step. Not sure if it was just because the ground was slippy but it felt to me like my foot just sprung up!

    So having said all that, when I accelerated to start the 2 @ MP that's when I really noticed the spring kicking in. The phrase "rocket shoes" popped unbidden into my head! My route is 2 "laps" of 0.5M out and back and the first turn around was 2:58ish so I knew I was being ridiculous! I settled down after that and ended up with 6:05 and 6:09 for the 2 miles. Now that's far faster than I would have expected, but I don't think that's all down to the shoes. I'm sure there's a placebo effect in there. I was excited to try them out and the legs were feeling good, so going out too fast was always on the cards. HR at the end of the final mile was 1-2bpm higher than target MP HR. Nevertheless though, I think these shoes ought to make a PB very possible.
  • Interesting on the shoe front. I've just been listening to Runner's world podcast talking about Kipchoge's shoes and it makes me wonder how efficient mine are. Shoes offering 5%+ improvement in performance are pretty crazy in my eyes.

    An hour of 8 min/miles today. Even with tired legs the urge of my body is to go faster, it feels very pedestrian. That said it's a timely reminder of the need to watch my watch on Sunday because without it i'll drift down to 7:30s and will definitely do myself some damage!
  • Never seen a marathon as a 'race' as such - just an exercise in pacing really, dividing it up into 5k sections and trying to keep to the plan! 'Going out hard' seems very risky to me. Although i'm basically shit scared of marathons tbh ;)

    LMH - Hope you're feeling better, my headache without painkillers has gone. Thank god. How amazing a world without a headache is!

    TR - Non Nike athletes wearing the 5%? Lots of money changing hand, I'm sure.

  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    SC2 - i think that's the right way to execute the marathon at my level anyway, it's not a race, maybe in the last 3-4 miles if i can "race" people in front of me to keep me going, but before that it's all about running the race at the right effort level to be the best i can on the day really.

    ES - i had the same sort of weird feelings when i donned those shoes (well i had the 4%, not sure if u have the next%) for the first time - just felt a bit odd.  That's a big confidence boosting 2 miles of effort though regardless of shoe (there is no way the shoes alone give anyone 4-5% extra performance imo).

    My legs and glutes/hips and lower back are all still feeling pretty sore, and still not sleeping well/waking with niggly throat, but i am assuming i will forget about all that on the big day.  I did 5.8 miles today around the park largely, with my 2 miles of effort in the middle coming out at 6:03's on average with average HR basically around normal marathon HR - but think it was net slightly down hill.

    That's just about it for me i think.  Maybe 3 or 4 easy miles tomorrow, with maybe 3 mins or 1 mile of effort.  That will probably round off my best ever extended block of training for a marathon, so hope it reaps some results!

  • SC - Good to hear you're feeling better. I too am headache free today - even the painkillers weren't touching mine so it's a relief. RHR still a bit high but time for that to settle too.

    You're making me want magic shoes ES!

    Sounds good selbs. Hope you can ease your niggles.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    Padams - Solid mile reps there. Bournemouth was around 5-6bpm below MP HR, windy & sandy on the prom too! (Note Vaporfly 4%s do not work well on sand  :/ )

    ES - Magic cheating shoes are great, I'm hoping for a good helping hand from mine this weekend!

    TR - Hope you get your back sorted in time for Sunday

    LMH - Thanks, not getting the full elite experience though, I'm only fast enough (see list below) for the front pen/on-site parking, denied access to the 'elite athlete area' & the wonders it may contain, reserved for the top few only it would seem.... 

    Wardi
    - I got the elite start list with my race info, so did a spot of Po10 stalking, see below.... No prizes for guessing who's got the shortest odds this year! Couple of guys did PBs at Berlin, so be interesting to see how they go on Sunday (assuming they are racing)

    2019 Location

    Paul Martelletti 02:17:29 London
    Richard McDowell 02:23:08 London
    Scott Harrington 02:25:04 Berlin
    Chris Oddy 02:26:03 London
    Tom Charles 02:26:45 Manchester
    Gareth Cooke 02:26:49 Manchester
    David Hudson 02:26:49 Berlin
    Robert Weekes 02:27:10 Manchester
    Alastair Pickburn 02:27:55 London
    Jonathan Walton 02:28:36 Manchester
    Anthony Woodward 02:28:51 Manchester
    Christopher Wood 02:29:09 London
    Dan Kestrel 02:33:23 Manchester

    Just ticking over here with 4+4M doubles including 200m strides Monday to Wednesday this week, singles now until race day.
  • Does that mean that it's elites, then nearly elites and then us mere mortals in Zone 1 Al? I'm on for my lowest ever taper mileage week as I've only run 19 so far. Seems very strange.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    LMH.. apparently this is the pecking order.  Nothing to worry about really as it's on a much smaller scale to London.  BTW do you have a rest day in final taper week or just tick over with a few miles each day?

    Zone 1 - Elite Pen – this is exclusively for those runners with sub 2:30 (male) or sub 2:50 (female) performances to their name.

    Zone 1 - England & Celtic Masters Runners & BMAF entrants only – this area will be sectioned off behind the elite start and will be exclusively for runners of 3:15 or under standard.

    Zone 1 - England & Celtic Masters Runners & BMAF entrants of 3:15 to 4:00 standard, plus sub 3:30 general runners

    Pouring down this morning so donned a rain jacket for a 5 miler with 2m @ MP.  Sod's law it stopped raining quite suddenly after about 1 mile so I was too hot after that!
    TR.. hope you can get your back sorted, the less to worry about the better.
    Menn.. I once fainted in the Chandos about 2 hrs after the marathon - similarly after about 1 pint!  Low blood sugar apparently, the best cure is proper sugary coke.
    Great speed on those reps Padams.
    Al P.. I did wonder if Marders would return, he must like the beer prices up here.  As you say Harrington ran his 2:25 at Berlin this year so I thought he might skip York.  Mind you it didn't stop Marders doubling up last year. :o


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    How exciting Al.

    ES - are you wearing them sunday after that 1 test run?

    Marders did the 50k in an England vest the end of Aug, and then  Berlin, so he is nicely warmed up.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Selbs / TR - hope back issues bigger off. 

    LMH - glad to hear headache subsided. 

    Wardi - marders is twice winner of York? 2016, 2018.

    Obviously the day for those couple of miles at MP as I did mine as soon as I got in (early home for once). 10km with 4km avg 3:50's (~6:10/mile). Like ES HR drifted upwards a little towards the end but it was slightly up hill. Without being negative I don't think that will be my avg pace on sunday as it just felt a touch too hard. On the other hand the HR was in the ball park so... f--- knows! 

    Since I cant fit in these Nikes I'm going to stubbornly (I have no choice) stick to the foam shoes and smuggly proclaim my performances as 'clean' :) 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    SJ - What asics do you use sunday  im down from nimbus to rides but they are still a training shoe. 6.10 is rattling, i expext the 2m to come out too quick myself,  but i was a lot slower than you. Hey ho, 6.3X will do nicely sunday.

    One of the fizz's fitted me in at 5pm. Cant believe i paid money to be abused so painfully. Gave me stick about coming in so messed up a few days before a key race, as they can only do so much. Said that in future i should consider going in routinely if i want to keep this up. Will have to wait and see how much it helps.......backache might not have been helped by manflu shivers and sweats which have turned up since, looks like the taper has arrived.
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭
    Proper taper symptoms TR.  think we must all be amped for this one!!!! X fingers all ok in a few days.  Forecast keeps changing morning showers now but still light winds.  Prob time to stop looking I tell myself!!!
  • Just popping in to wish all you Abo/Yorkies good luck at the w/e.
    Careful with that back TR - faster miles will be tightening up the hammy's & hip flexors which may well be what's pulling your back. You've had a cracking campaign so don't risk blowing it now.
    Skim read the last month or so. Sorry to read of injury/illness woes for MennOO. Hopefully the others are just maranoia.
    Saw your name in the results from Cardiff Joolska - a very decent position considering the Cross-Challenge had attracted a lot of seriously quick runners
    I'm just starting back after several months off mainly due to CBA probably brought on by burning myself out at the start of the year.
    July-August saw weekly mileage of 35-20-11-0-13-3-28-3 & no cycling after the first week in July either. Started September with a fair bit of biking & a little bit of running to enable myself to get round the Half-X triathlon & then Chester marathon. The first went OK as I paced accordingly however the recovery was much harder than usual so with only a fortnight between the 2 I arrived at Chester woefully underprepared. I figured I should be able to run 8:3x for 20M then see what I could manage for the final 10K but found myself doing 8:00 comfortably so went with that but of course the wheels fell off & I limped home in a sorry state. Managed to string together a few runs since & starting to get the buzz back. Also cycling c100M per wk. I was at Cardiff for XC Saturday then doubled up with more XC Sunday. Slow but satisfying & I'm looking forward to advancing up the field by November
  • Nice to see you Jooligan.

    Wardi - going to be a few to fight my way through at the start then by the sounds of it, all those slow BMAF entrants  :) Is it a wide start? I generally run every day so continue to do so through the taper unless life gets in the way or I feel the need for a day off (same as the rest of the time).

    I wish I could hit those paces sj! I shall be racing in my Bostons as usual (all I'm running in at the moment).

    TR - I really need four weekly visits to the physio to keep me going when I'm in hard training. I cut it back to when I have niggles to save some money between campaigns. Glad you were able to get seen and hope it's sorted you out. Don't you go getting ill now!

    How's your back selbs?

    My RHR was down 7bpm this morning so hopefully whatever it was has cleared my system so no excuses apart from the fact that I've been rubbish all year. Physio to iron out the niggles at 1200hrs and then it's just a question of trying not to get myself too stressed, packing (always a little more to think about when you're away from home for a race especially with my dietary hassles) and carb loading.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    10 miles steady for me this morning.  Felt a bit lethargic but I think that's the autumnal evenings and mornings kicking in!
  • My run was slower this morning - I thought you were supposed to get faster during the taper! Mind you it was bliddy cold out.

    Nice miles for a week day morning Joolska.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Yeah nice miles Jools.

     Jooligan - great to see you pop in and recap the summer. Sounds like you are passed that tricky patch and have your mojo back. Top stuff.

    LMH - I'll be jogging the rest of the taper intentionally, no point wasting any energy now. You really haven't been rubbish. Yes down on previous years but be fair to yourself, it's been a challenging year. Be the best you can be on Sunday.    

    TR - I'm still in my trainers. I will look to graduate to the lighter Asics DS after York I think. They have a lower heel drop too so should provide a different feel on the roads. I've no need to go lighter tbh as I doubt it would help me as much as more consistency. Lol at your telling off by the fizz. I'm sure I'm totally out of alignment and I should definitely stretch more. Hope the back settles.

    Selbs/TR - hope any residual lurgy sods off. I've felt lethargic but have felt ok when running. The reduction in training stress really does play a key role it seem in most folks.

    Wardi - fancy zonal setup with those two zone 1's. We're in the second of the two I presume if I've read that correctly. Driving to car park near to train station and getting shuttle to the start from there now.
  • Interesting on the start zones Wardi, I'll have to check whether I entered through BMAF and get an M45 sticker on my back (it'll be the last time if so).

    For those who haven't already seen it, I tried to measure the effect of magic shoes, and got 1.2% out of them compared to my already super-efficient previous shoes: http://www.wartnaby.org/running/hyperspeed_vs_vaporfly/index.html

    TR I've told this before but I once managed a 22M training run, having started the day crippled with a stiff back, by having half a bottle of Merlot on an empty stomach for lunch. Came back stone cold sober!

    Good luck all, if I don't make it here tomorrow -- see some of you at the start at York. Pen-depending!

  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    good the RHR has settled LMH.  My lower back is always stiff/bit sore, guess just receives a bit more focus when tapering!!  I shouldn't have it as an excuse come the day though.

    nice early miles Joolska, and welcome back Jooligan.

    well i'm done with running now. 

    till Sunday that is.  last 3.7 miles, where i chucked in 1 mile of "mp" effort.  my HR monitor was totally scr*wed (saying HR was 210 most of the time) so had to guess effort, and i am probably too reliant on the HR monitor as must have been wrong as mile came out at 5:54.  Just more carb eating, foam rollering/stretching and resting to do now (will enjoy couple of rugby games on Saturday, lucky for me sons football in the morning has been cancelled so can settle in for them!)

    if i don't check back in - best of luck to everyone racing this weekend, what SJ said be best you can on the day (or don't be sh*t), and hopefully see some of Abo lot pre race or post - if i am not there post, it's hopefully because i have gone to the pub.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jooligan - good to see you back at yr usual antics, but Brighton might need a bit of singular sub3 focus.

    LMH - agreed, i need to commit to once a month from now on.

    SJ - i did some research in ways to combat hammy cramp nd i decided on lighter shoes (but didnt risk it til after brighton), my nimbus were heavy, DS are pretty light so no need to change really, much lighter than my rides, but my rides are much lighter than my nimbus.......by Brighton I'll probably be lokking for the magic shoes, but i want to try them in my spring races first.

    CW  - yes i remember that. Lack of booze is probably the root of my issues this week.

    Took some cold and flu powders to battle the shivers snd sweats. Feel like ive been hit by a truck though the fizz did say it was lucky i had a few days to get over his work. Bit early to panic yet, in the absence of some Merlot, a few painkillers will hopefully get me round. Im trying not to take any ibuprofen before Sunday so it doesnt affect my stomach/food adsorption.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Someone told me today i was walking like an old man !
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭
    whats that on the ibuprofen/food abosrption TR?  i've been on it this week as well (1200 mg today) but that was the end of it for me as well, but didnt know it might impact food absorption.  i'm on my 2nd lunch at the mo, wolfing down big bowl of tomato spaghetti taking carb load serious!
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Weather is currently looking kind for us all so bring it on I say!

    TR.. any back aches I usually 'hang' myself (as it were!) from the bannisters using my bodyweight to stretch the back.  No guarantees but it has cleared one or two back niggles in the past.
    LMH.. the start road(s) are pretty wide so you should be up to speed soonest.
    Charlie.. hope to see you there, I've just bought one of your patented Soreen loafs today ready for the carb fest.
    SJ.. you can park for free along Knavesmire Road (turn right off the Mount towards the racecourse).  However it is a 15-20 minute walk to the station from there.
    Jooligan.. good to see you getting back in the groove.
    Jools.. nice miles on a school day (or should that be a court day!)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Selbs - they can cause stomach issues which would lead to you not getting the most from anything you eat. Its why they advise them to be taken with food. I'll have mine with a gel when im running sunday !

    Wardi - good idea. I have a sorreen for tomorrow too, and some jaffa cakes.
  • TR, Yes I am planning on running in the Vaporfly shoes. I know it's a risk after only one test run, but I needed new shoes anyway, just left it a bit late. Hope the physio does the trick.

    Nice to see you Jooligan.

    CW, Yes I did read your article on the magic shoes, and also your recent discussion with RS on Strava following his tests. All very interesting!
  • Great research CW. I missed this during my summer recess but I recently read of your continued decline & Cyberchondriac diagnosis on Strava. Could it be that you dug yourself into a hole with your Camino ultra which you've never recovered from? Your traditional training had shown amazingly consistent results until then although I would argue, as many others here have, that varying the training stimulus would have benefitted you further.
    For sure Brighton will require a much more targeted approach if I'm to achieve anything worthy TR. Hope that lurgy buggers off sharpish for you.
    You're clearly not rubbish LMH as you'd have almost certainly have won in Chester: 3:01 for 1st lady. RHR improvement sounds positive too.
    Lunchtime track session 8x300m off 100m walk/jog recovery. Just over 5K with wu/cd. Still cycle commuting too so some decent aerobic work on top.
  • Wardi - your local knowledge has been most valuable, thank you. Have you not started carb loading yet?

    TR - you really should not take ibuprofen when racing, it can cause GI issues and most seriously a bleed in your stomach. Paracetamol would be better if you need something. I always have my last physio going over on the Thursday before a Sunday race because it takes that long for my legs to recover - hopefully you'll be fine by Sunday.

    Kind of you Jooligan but I didn't even manage the sub 3 in London.........

    Too right sj - all I can do is my best on the day. 

    selbs - sounds as though lik eme you enjoy the carb loading:-)
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    ES - will be interesting to see how you get on then. What sort of shape are yoy in (obviously decided before magic shoes)?

    Jools - you are doing ok already.

    LmH - agreed, the plan (same as yeovil) s paracetamol upfront if my back is stiff after driving there, leaving the ibuprofen in my pocket for during the race. I have taken them before in Tri or maras, i know its not ideal, but then neither is running with a flakey back.
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