Sub 3



  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SJ - still had a great year, fair play for giving it a crack, i have had the discussion about how much quicker do you think we can go early on and get it wrong with a few folks. When Tick Tock was about to look up the results, i said Jason will have been fine he always runs a steady race....

    Tick Tock - great to see you agsin, hsppy days on another m50 sub 3. We saw a lot of eachother today!

    Big up to the sheep for seuzing the moment when the planets all lined up for him. But he has run dome decent times on tough days and courses so it was in there.

    LMH  - mmmm, shame. Marathons are tough, youve been under a lot of stress, and even getting stressed about training. I like your week off plan, msybe you should focus on shorter stuff through the winter. 

    Wool - great to meet up, glad we could spend some time together in the trenches when it got tough.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Got a bit more time now...........was around 20 or 30 sec over 255 pace at 3m, told wool my back and hammys ached and got set for a tough day. I did drag some time back but sat up after a few miles as i was burning matches.

    By around 9 or 10m i remember being up with the 3m every 20min that 255 needs, but my legs were aching (not enough flat running? Not enough long tempos ?), but keep calm snd carry on was the pattern. Was still spot on 255 pace at 18 (2hrs exactly), but legs were aching and hammys were moaning. I had kind of settled into a defensive get the sub3 and try to limit slowing, getting as far as i can before any cramps and id still go 256 or 257.
    Wool turns up at 19ish tells me to keep my chin up, so i tell im im fine im just managing my legs. He pulls away.......hang on a minute, if i attach my elastic to wool i can still 255, i feel ok and maybe a change of pace/effort will help my legs, internal team talk, a few expletives and i tell wool we can fckn do this and take over the around 24m wools mate pushes on, i follow but by 25m im on the stiff legged shuffle as the hammys are wibbling, i manage to fend it off by easing  but he gets away, and so do another couple, its eased by the track and i got home in 2.55.12 so only lost 30 secs. Pushed hard in the last 6 but reminded myself of the 6m tempo runs id done.

    Took a drink which i thought was a stingy amount of strong squash, think it was undiluted, it made me throw up all my gels and lucu though, so probably did me a favour.

    3 other highlights were Millsy (ftom the p and d thread who is localish) shouting out thats hes catching me just before the track and then on the track.......and Tick Tock accusing me of cramp of the wallet rather than hammys as i telll him i cant buy the magic shoes as i didnt go sub255........DanA telling me early on "to pull your finger out son".

    Abo is a good race run for runners by runners, but there are a lot of up and down kerbs, a few gates and some track, which affects pace, so the sheep did very well.

    Marathons are still a great challenge.

  • TmapTmap ✭✭✭
    A tough day at Abingdon. Legs hurt from the first 200 metres - they didn't seem to recover from XC last Saturday - so the opening miles ticked by horribly slowly. Aerobically was breathing lightly throughout but couldn 't get moving, and they were seizing up from about 16 onwards.
    So actually not too dismayed with a 3.21 and still quite enjoyed the day - that's a really good event. But will need to get much more structured about speed training (i.e. do some) if I want to make any kind of impression on the V50 ranks.
    Still, progress of sorts - managed to get to half in the same time as my Bracknell Half back in May.
    I've always had "impostor syndrome" on this thread even when I was 25 minutes quicker, but it's still fun to lurk!
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    LMH.. lovely to have you at Wardi Towers for reasonably close to ideal race prep as possible, sorry it wasn't your day.  You don't lose circa 10 mins in a few months due to age decline so I can only guess it was your recent life stress getting in the way that contributed, losing your shoe in the first mile is proof that when you're down etc.. :/
    ES.. chuffed to bits for you, sub 2:45 is something of a holy grail for club runners so celebrate well.
    TR.. similarly delighted for you, well deserved after an impressive bank of training.
    Tick Tock.. get in!  As I remember you're not a youth anymore so take the 5 seconds and raise a glass. 
    SJ.. not quite what you were hoping for but that is still a great run and congrats on the PB.  Sorry I didn't spot you before/after.  BTW I had to truly grit out the last 4m or so, I always think of it as part of the marathon skill set :)

    Reasonable day for me,  3:34 and managed to beat all the club youngsters.  Makes my marathon 'trio' this year read 3:40, 3:36, 3:34 so at least the graph is pointing the right way in old age. 👍   A bit cold & windy for me (LMH agreed), I ran slightly faster last year in pouring rain with light winds.  I did spot Charlie at the start, hope you had a good day CW.
    Heading out for a curry and some beer soon as is traditional.  :p  
  • Well done TR toughed it out in style & although not quite the result you'd aspired to definitely nailed the sub 3 with plenty of room to spare. Last year's gremlins should consider themselves battered.
    Nice progression Wardi especially if you can carry it on into next year.
    Congratulations ES on a massive PB. A brave run: I'd seen some good indicators on Strava but even so that's awesome.
    SJ I understand your disappointment at those splits however you have to gamble if you're going to take chunks out of a PB & you can't keep winning every bet. Just reflect on the fact that you held it together mentally & physically to achieve a PB, however small it is.
    Sorry to hear it wasn't your day at all LMH. As others have said life stress is bound to be hindering you.
    Well done RJR - sounds like you kept it easy enough to enjoy it as a LR with company/support. Onwards & speedier.
  • Electric SheepElectric Sheep ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    "Big up to the sheep" - I'll be laughing about that for days TR!

    Wardi - sub 2:45 was certainly a holy grail for me! I was muttering about hanging up my trainers after the race. I got over it though. Have to do at least one champs start at VLM!
  • Kind words but I'm not sure how long I can keep blaming life stress! I am wondering if fuelling was part of it yesterday as I was so worried about my stomach that I finished breakfast three hours before the race (450-500 calories) and didn't have anything else until a gel at 12 miles. Dinner on Saturday probably wasn't hugely calorific either for the same reasons (plain white rice and salmon). Legs feel far too good this morning, have run a long way slightly stiff and tired rather than tried hard. I have to admit that my head wasn't in the right place either - as I said on here before the race I just didn't feel that I wanted to hurt myself which is what it needs. I seem to perform better when it's a bit warm for most folks too like at Yeovil. I'll be hoping for a warm day in London in April!

    Wardi - I definitely found it cold and struggled running in to the wind and as I said yesterday - you've had a birthday so your WAVA should be going in the right direction!

    TR - I much prefer the course at Abingdon to York having now run them both. How are your niggles this morning?

    Sounds a bit like my day Tmap.

    My legs feel so good I'm not sure how long the no running is going to last - thinking about it I had a good break after Yeovil and that doesn't seem to have done any good! No 'training' until we come back from holiday in the middle of November though, I'll just do as I feel between now and then. Brass is my next race.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    LMH - Do you think you suffered from the law of marginal losses, training not ideal, diet, starting way to far back in the pack, losing your shoe and feeling perhaps not 100%.  In balance on WAVA your run was still very high 80's, so not up to you normal very high standards but still very good compared to others.  Keep on doing what worked for you in the past as cannot see this as age-decline.
    Nice report TR - well toughed out and glad you got a decent return for your training.
    That's a great run SJ, I am sure the PB will get sweeter as time moves by.  I was following you on the tracker and it did look like you went off a bit too fast which caught up with you in those last 10K - which is unusual as your pacing is normally spot on.
    ES - What were the factors behind such a stellar performance?   
    TickTock - Faster than last year and your second fastest time, that's fantastic, well run indeed. 
    RJR - Job well done. It must be nice not racing to enjoy those things. Onwards to Nottingham. 
    Wardi - A cracking run and a very nice set of performances for 2019, great the times are coming down, rowing against the tide nice one. 
    Tmap - That is progress, thats a good run considering the lack of fresh legs.  Hang around.  
    Lucky in a way I binned Abingdon as currently suffering with my worse lurgy in years.
  • LMH - I can sympathise with the head not feeling right although it's gone two different ways for me lately. I was very relaxed for the Cheltenham half and wasn't thinking about going for it but just felt so good that I pushed on and PBed. Yesterday, knowing I wasn't trying to do anything but keep a steady pace was quite draining emotionally. It took me a long time to feel my way into it and then it wasn't too long until it started to be a little uncomfortable. There was definitely a relaxing element to it but it was also quite boring at times not having to do the maths in my head about paces and the internal will I/won't I debate. A marathon is a gruelling thing at the best of times but more so if your head isn't quite in it. That said, if your legs feel reasonably good then there's huge positives to take I think in how you should be able to build back up for next time?

    Still in awe of some of the times yesterday especially for people who thought it was a slightly bad day at the office. I think there's a lot of pressure on the marathon for quite a few runners. Realistically you only get a couple of attempts each year to get it right and there's a huge number of variables in training and on the day itself. Plus there's the added pressure of trying to get qualifying times for a lot of people which you don't see in many other distances for non-pros. So huge respect for those who turn up and deliver and for those who don't but get back out there and do it again. And if you don't think you have any more to give then maybe Nike will help you out and produce a new improved set of rocket shoes!
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    ES - saw your result on Strava, that's an amazing run. You've had a solid build up and it really paid off (as well as the shoes, although I doubt they explain all of the 7 mins!).

    TR - well toughed out, that's an impressive time if you weren't feeling good quite early on.

    LMH - sorry it didn't go to plan. Enjoy your week of no running, and then maybe take a bit longer just not putting any pressure on your runs, no watch etc. You've had a tough year and need a break (mentally, and maybe physically).

    SJ - it's a PB, that's got to be positive. And you know you can improve from there if it didn't go to plan.

    Wardi - fantastic, still improving with age!

    TickTock - another cracking result, well done.

    Tmap - you're making good progress, so stick around. Very solid run int he circumstances.

    RJR - sounds like you were very sensible and that should have given you a good endurance boost.

    Parkrun on Saturday (18:3x on the off-road course, no faster people so didn't push it) without missing too much of the rugby - was back home about 25 mins after leaving! And halftime was in those 25 mins. Then about 12M yesterday, the middle 8M with a mate, mostly off-road.
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    Congrats again ES for fantastic run, hope you are still baskign in it!!

    LMH really sorry it didn't go as well as you hoped, but as OO says, it is still relatviely a top notch run, its just your standards are so high.  Hopefully you can be back to where you want to be next year, starting with BM.  You have had a tough year remember.

    SJ, a PB!  thats great even with a positive split that I can empathise with.

    TickTock, still ticking off the sub 3's!

    TR close to bang on what you were after so can't really ask for much more, and you have saved yourself some money on the fancy shoes!

    Wardi, nice way to close out your marathons this year, top effort.  Especially scalping all the youngsters!!

    TMap well toughed out, your legs sound like mine felt yesterday. And RJR well done to sticking toyour plan, hope it gives you the impetus to train well for Nottingham.

    Nice to catch up with TTock, TR and ES who all had great days, and to see DanA supporting, hope he gets over that achilles injury soon.

    Padams, nice park runnign as usual.  Pity the semi final isn't the final in the rugby, should be a cracking match on Saturday.  Thats my birthday though so sorry, NZ have to win!  I think i will be v nervous for that match.

  • GWS OuchOuch. I'm not blaming age.

    Very true rj, with the marathon we never know what we're going to get until the day.

    I hope you're pleased with your performance TickTock - as I recall you weren't feeling the best?

    I'm sure you'll get back if you want to Tmap.

    I hope you enjoy the luxury of the Champs start ES:-)

    As I said Padams - no 'training' until after our holiday.

    Walked 4.5 miles this morning in lieu of my run, I can feel my legs, especially the left piriformis/hamstring but everything is working fine. I was starving when i got back though - had to have a second breakfast!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭

    Strange race for me yesterday, still trying to work out what went wrong.  I know i am the fittest i have ever been, as evidenced by big 5km PB plus multiple trainign runs where my HR to pace ratio is better than ever.  So everything pointed to a PB being on the cards, and possibly even 2:39:xx.  But i didnt start off chasing time targets, had my watch set to show only HR, and ran with the aim of keeping the HR to a max of 150 for as long as possible, as thats what I average when racing marathons. So aim was to keep it below that first half, and then maintain, and seeif can pick up effort in final 6 miles or maintain.  Then it was just "hope" the times/splits came out good basically - training said they should.

    From the off i felt sore, hammy/glutes.  First mile was 6:21 which i was dissapointed to see, but never mind crack on.  Next mile was 5:57, then a 6:03 and 6:06, and 6:01 so i had settled in, but felt sore, already new it was going to be a tough day.  But I had stuck to the plan, HR average was 145, 148, 146, 147, 150.  I kept ticking over like that, and HR stayed at 149 or 150 average from then through to 15 miles.  There was one mile that was 6:15 (think trail/maybe slight uphill) but most of the others were around sub 2:40 pace, not that i was thinking it was on.  I didn't even clock that i went through half way in a smidge under 80 until looked at splits this morning.

    Was runnign largely by myself most of the race, in 8th place i was told, but too far behind the person in front to have a target, and i knew i wasjust holding on anyway.  The rest of the run is largely told my my HR splits from mile 15 rather than pace, 148,145,144,143,141,140.  I was surprised each time i clicked a lap in this period, that although my HR/effort was dropping and dropping, the pace hadn't come off a cliff at all yet, and i went through 20 miles still on for 2:40xx so pb material, but wheels were coming off, and i wasnt thinking about time, just coudl i finish/not walk as very sore.  i told myself i will checkif i can jog it in at 7's for sub 245 when i get to 23 miles, but when i got to 23, still didnt want to check/felt too far away.  in the end i checked at 24 miles, and new i had to keep going almost excatly 7's to make sub 245.  C target on the day.  The HR had gone down to training run effort, 138, 131, 129, 132... mile 25 i did 7:07, which made sub 245 a challenge as menat i had to speed up!  did 6:53 mile 26 at 135 HR so tiny bit of effort!  then had to put ina  bit of a burst on the track to slip under.  2:44:56.

    Pretty dissapointed tbh, as not sure i will ever have the chance to run a 2:3x marathon again, plus really struggling to work out what went wrong/why my legs didn't play ball.  i didnt run much in final week, did a pretty standard 3 week taper.  not sure what else to do, how to improve for next time.

    Taking the positives, i'd like to find a half to race as think i should easily beat my PB there, and even thinking about trying to find another marathon, and it's my fastest time since 2016, and i can join the sheep off the posh loos if i want.

    If anyone else trains/races by HR be interested to hear thoughts!

  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭
    my quads are not even slightly sore today/walking down stairs no problem.  that never happens when i have raced a marathon/been able to push to end (normally i am holding the bannister and taking 2 steps per one stair sideways to make it down!).  just my hammies/glutes still sore.  on plus side i will be backrunnign quicker than normal i guess!!
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    ES - An excellent run, well done. See you at the champs start next April  B)

    TR - Top work getting your brain to over ride your legs/back and push through for a 2:55

    SJ - Well done for hanging in and toughing it out yesterday, I found the 2nd half grinding with the wind and long wide road sections.

    Wardi - Pleasing to see your times progressing towards the faster end of the scale  :)

    LMH - That sounded like a bit of a nightmare start, would be difficult to recover your mindset after that. Good job for deciding to keep going, hope you can come back stronger next time.

    RunJoe - I'm a bit jealous of your relaxed style! Still a decent time in the whole scheme of things.

    TickTock - Well done for chalking up another sub-3

    Tmap - Your legs clearly weren't in the game if they were complaining after only 200m... well done on getting to the finish!

    Selbs - Seemed to be a day for tough runs, I've had that issue with my HR dropping as my legs refuse to co-operate, maybe the dropping HR makes you think you can up the effort, but that serves to accelerate the demise of the legs? Still a great effort to sneak in the champs qualifying time

  • Some great performances this weekend = thoroughly enjoyed pouring over results last night.

    ES - Absolutely cracking run. Look at your pacing on strava, ran it really well. Very pleased for you. See you on the champs start?

    TR - got to be happy with that. Sounds like you dug in and fought all the way. Just keep backing up the training blocks and it'll be forward progress each time. Loving TT's wallet gag. 

    As others have said SJ - PB is a PB. As I've found in the last couple of years, they don't come around that often.

    TickTock - another sub 3, congrats! Will we be seeing you out in Valencia again this year?

    LMH - I think you're being a bit hard on yourself there. Sometimes things don't work out for one reason or another. Sounds like you may have been under fuelled. I know you set yourself high targets, but on some days, just completing a marathon is a cracking achievement. I'm sure there's nothing fundamentally wrong, just need to give the body a bit of time to recover. 

    Tmap - you know it's going to be a tough day when legs are hurting from 200m... Well done for toughing it out. Some longer runs will definitely help your cause.

    Wardi - that's the kind of progression you want to see, great stuff.

    Nice parkrun Padams. 

    Selbs - that does sound like an odd one. Sounds like the leg strength was there, but for one reason or another the bodily systems just weren't up for the hard effort. I do train and race to heart rate, but haven't experience something like that before. I think unfortunately for us we can't pick a day when we want the body to fire, and sometimes it doesn't work out. Did you have enough fuel before/during? Don't write it off as your final chance - always things to improve on and better days to be had!
  • Headed to Queen Elizabeth country park parkrun on Saturday. Pretty tough one - off-road and over 100m of climbing. I had a hard effort in my training plan, so basically ran as hard as I could and that ended up being 19:45 and 2nd place. No idea what kind of time I could run on the flat at the moment. Followed it up with a 45 minute build run post parkrun.

    60 miles on the bike on Sunday left me with zero feeling in my hands and feet for hours afterwards.

    Frankfurt marathon this weekend has certainly crept up. I'm acting as chief pacemaker for the better half, which is going to be equivalent to running nearly flat out for my current fitness levels! With a PB of 3:09, we're going to see how close we can get her to becoming a member of the club we've named our thread after..

    My prediction is a 3:03 and hopefully next spring she'll get it. I've only run once over 20 miles since July so I may struggle in the closing stages. 
  • selbsselbs ✭✭✭
    good luck Joe, sounds like a good hit out for you.  i liked Frankfurt when i did it, one of the few marathons i've ran strong start to finish!  I can't imagine it was fuelling (well not lack of) i had massive carb load on thurs and Fri, so much so i had put on around 3.5kg of weight come race day, i know a lot of that is fluid, but still!  on the morning of race, i had big bowl of porridge with sugar, and a banana, and a piece of toast and honey at about 5am.  then during race had 4 gels, more than i normally take, one every 5-6 miles.  even tried beetroot juice, wont be doing that again disgusting stuff!
  • Al_PAl_P ✭✭✭
    Talking of tough days.... Yorkshire was a pretty hard one for me too. Warming up in front of the start my legs felt lovely and I was optimistic of a prospects of a good race. Off the line we belted down the first mile at 5:30 pace but when it flattened out through York city centre I realised that my heart rate was already above marathon average and creeping towards HM levels. I was in a nice 2nd group of 5, but their pace was just too hot. I backed off the effort to get my heart rate down & they didn't seem to go away from me very much, so a couple of times I sped up to reconnect, only to find that yes my HR was too high going at the group's pace (despite any drafting effect). So at 3 miles I made the final decision to back off, modulate the effort and run my own race. Cue 20 odd miles of solo running, puncuated by being passed by the odd person. My pace flucuated between 5:45 to 6:00 min miles, with it creeping more towards 6s around 19-22M. It was a mentally tough run, around 12-15M being some of the worst as I passed through some of the quietest parts of the course.

    I went through halfway in 76 mins, I thought if I could finish under 2:35 I'd be doing well. Coming out on to the long A166 section at Stamford Bridge was both good (much more support & two out & backs to see the other runners :) ) and bad (wide & straight, draggy uphills and windy  :|). My main motivation was getting to the family who were at the 18M turn around. then it was to get to mile 23 to see them again, which would only leave 5k to go. Coming back towards 19M it was great to see and gave a shout out to CW going the other way. 

    Around 22M we rejoined the 10M race route and suddenly I was running past lots of people which was a useful distraction from the mental battle.  With 5kish to go I decided it was time to up the effort and let my HR rise. I started reeling in the couple of guys who had passed me earlier. Backing off the effort early on now paid off as I ran the last few miles progressively faster (5:50/5:46/5:44) ending by belting down the hill to the finish at close to 5m/M pace crossing the line in 2:33:07 in 20th place.

    Overall I'm pretty happy with the run, I think Friday's high RHR was evident on race day, I was feeling under the weather on Saturday despite my best efforts to do nothing strenuous at all. My legs are moderately cooked today so I think I did a decent job of putting a good effort in, feeling 100% I think I would have been closer (but not under) 2:30.
  • TR  - As you say we did see a lot of each other. It was great to catch up before, after and in the shower.. though following me to the loo crossed a boundary. Well done on the 2:55 mate.

    Wardi - well done on beating all the club youngsters and good to see times heading in the right direction. An inspiration to us all as we all begin to feel the effects of ageing.

    LMH - sorry it didn't go as you would have wanted but as other have said there are a litany of reasons to explain why. Let's hope for a warm sunny day in London!

    RJR91 - well done for controlling yourself. Hope you can now focus on getting some proper marathon training done

    ES  - still in awe of your performance yesterday.  Let's sort out a lunchtime run soon - it will be a jog for you but tempo for me.

    Selbs - sorry you didn't get the return on training you has hoped for. Well done still for digging in and getting a very  impressive sub 2:45

    SJ - I hope you have a chance to review you race and take some delight on running a PB. I know you wanted more and it is sure to come.

    Tmap - glad you enjoyed the race. Is this a return to marathon running and chasing times?

    Joe - yep I will be in Valencia. Are you both running?  Looking forward to a few beers after race again.

  • Abingdon 2019 - This was my 33rd marathon and 12th time at Abingdon. Training has initially gone well with approx 55 miles per week plus 140 miles on bike commuting. I managed 12 runs of 20 miles or over and even did some speed work . Unfortunately, I caught a bad cold 4 weeks  out from race and that mean I missed a weeks training. My parkrun times this year have been poor and at 51 years old I think I am losing any top end speed I had. So target for Abingdon was to go sub 3 and hopefully by a few mins.

    Bumped into TR then Selbs before race. Also managed to have quick catch up with Dan and ES. Plan for race was to settle in at about 6:45 pace. First mile was a bit slower with congestion on track and a small hill and miles 2 and 3 were  bit quicker. After this I managed to settle into fairly consistent 6:45 pacing. I went though half way in 1:28:15 and felt pretty good. Splits were stilling looking ok even with the 2 small rises on 2nd lap. By now I was passing quite a few runners. Then got to the bit where it is a track through the woods and it was pretty busy here.  We had to pass lapped runners and it was hard to get round people so ended up with a 7:05 mile. The last 3 miles I felt ok but was finding the northerly head wind a pain - being six foot and skinny I detest headwinds.  I was still feeling pretty strong and whilst the underpass was PITA, I was still passing people. Got on the track with 300m to go and could see it was going to be a 2:57:xx unless I dawdled. Ended up with 2:57:54  so 5 seconds faster than last year and my second fastest marathon (PB was in 2012).


    I enjoy Abingdon and it attracts a fast field.  I don't think it is a super fast course though. I find all the going up and down on kerbs is a pain and the section on trails are uneven and the congestion can slow you down. The upsides are the race is really well organised and it is always great place to meet up with others. I would mention the showers as an upside but TR may get the wrong  idea (again).



  • TmapTmap ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Nice one Tick Tock.
    Yes, want to get back to chasing times. I've found that nothing else forces me to stay fit. I enjoy my karate and kayaking but only marathons get me waking up and figuring out when I can train today.

    I also have very little muscle soreness today - I even managed to run to a meeting I was late for. That's odd.

    Next race is a 10k end of November where I pay £10 to charity for everyone who beats me, so that's quite an incentive!

  • TR -- nice result, back in your zone from a couple of years back!

    ES -- tremendous! See you at the champs start then (I've got 2 more but none after that, I'm sure)

    SJ -- congrats on the PB, glad to have seen you on the out-and-back bits!

    rjr91 -- glad Abo worked out well as a training run

    TT -- another great result

    LMH -- sorry you had a rough day, unlucky with the start situation and then the shoe. I hope you're not suffering the same sudden decline as me! You do have exceptionally high WAVA standards.

    Tmap -- glad you had a satisfactory result too

    Wardi -- glad to hear you had a good one! Although I was warm running, like you guys I really felt the cold after I stopped, was risking getting a bit hypothermic before getting enough layers on (and retiring to the pub).

    selbs -- much empathy here as in VLM I also did 2:44:56, with an excrutiating last half mile (had to be <6 m/M pace!).  Taper-wise, a review by ?Bosquet found 2 rather than 3 weeks is optimal; and while I do few miles in the last week, I do lots of short sharp runs to keep the muscles 'tuned up', based on long-forgotten reading. Don't know if that would have helped.

    AlP -- a great run (and nice to see you en route!) -- I was really struck by your strong last few miles in the splits.

  • So I went into York with low expectations -- 2:50 to 2:55, based on training. I planned to just keep my HR at around 145 bpm from experience for most of the race, listen to my legs, and see how it turned out. In fact they were going a bit quicker than I expected, and often my HR was below target. It was actually very pleasurable to be humming along nicely in a marathon without the self-induced pressure of good pace expectations, so I rather enjoyed it. Generally I found shelter behind other runners where we had headwinds. I went through half way on about a 2:47 schedule. But things did get harder later; having been worried that I may not have that many hard marathons left in me, I didn't resist a fade, as I'd rather save damaging myself for VLM. I didn't want to bury myself. But having said that, it was still a tough effort, especially for the last mile or so, though I was slowing.

    Scores on the doors: 2:48:49 chip (and only 14th M45, as the race was stuffed full of speedy old gits with the EA event I hadn't qualified for!), so a near-2 min positive split, and some 10 mins slower than 3 years ago. Happy because I'd exceeded my more gloomy predictions, but overall it's obvious that I've lost a lot of performance.

    I might have a bit of a sabbatical now, as I don't have anything booked until VLM (having missed Brass Monkey registration), and haven't had an injury-inflicted break since 2014 -- so I've not had more than a post-marathon week off in all that time. I've had some odd niggles with my foot, could be a good time to let it settle down or possibly get it investigated.

    Nice to have a brief chat with Wardi & LMH en route to the start, and to see Al & SJ on those out-and-back bits.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    selbs - sounds like you held it together reasonably well, but I can see why you're a bit disappointed as you've been flying in the build-up. One observation and one question:
    - you were running solo for most of it and I wouldn't underestimate the impact of that. I'm convinced running in a pack is worth several minutes for me for a marathon, not necessarily the drafting benefit but the mental aspect. At your level I expect you'll need to be at a bigger race to really nail a time.
    - your HR dropped and the pace followed, but you didn't really say what was causing you to not be able to push harder (other than you were "very sore"). Was it muscular pain, cramping etc? Understanding that might help you to explain what went wrong. Although when I ask myself that question the day after a race, I can rarely give a good answer, even though at the time I knew I couldn't go faster!

    CW - that looks like a great result to me considering your expectations and that you didn't completely bury yourself. A bit of a break sounds like a good idea - probably beneficial in the long term.
  • shawkshawk ✭✭✭
    Congrats to everyone running this weekend.

    It was my first attempt sub-3 and I made it home in 2:59 flat (Abingdon) so obviously chuffed, but wondering if I was too conservative with pacing. I'd not done any road marathons since Abingdon 10 years ago so no real barometer of fitness, but have been training with 3-hr marathon in mind for a few years and knew I was there or thereabouts. Main interest is in running ultras so usually I've a couple of those lined up each year leaving no obvious marathon to sign up to and have a good pop at while fit.

    Originally I was planning to go on feel, hoping to settle around 6:40 as this is where a lot of my MP long runs have felt comfortable, but in the end decided to stick close to 3-hr goal with the strategy of a negative split. First 2 miles were ~7.05 which put a huge number of people in front of me, then picked up to target 6:55s till about 8-9 miles, feeling incredibly easy, HR approx 82-83% max and I kept having to back off when noticing I was going too quick. I then aimed for 6:52s for around 5 miles but found I was hitting 6:46-6:49 so decided to just keep it steady there and hold on. Majority of second half was 6:46-6:48, definitely had to focus but no real stresses, comfortably difficult by 18 but getting noticeably harder, and remember thinking I was glad I started out slow. HR was creeping but 86-88% max from memory, which I took as a good sign.

    By 20 the legs were definitely feeling it, like they had the potential to just collapse or cramp up, but I maintained pace and was overtaking loads of people who were all showing signs of struggling. I didn't want to push the pace more fearing a meltdown and knowing I just had to hold on for sub 3. 23-25 took a bit of resolve to keep going but knowing the end was in sight was a boost and I just kept telling myself I'd done plenty of 2-3 mile reps in training. The final mile I must have sensed I was safe and clocked a 6:33, with a bit of room to push it even more on the track. I think HR was 91% max somewhere in mile 26.

    So 1:31, 1:28 negative split, and 6:33 for mile 26. Is that just what a negative split looks like or did I miss out on say 2:56 by holding back too much early on? The last 6 miles were definitely uncomfortable but maybe not uncomfortable enough? It's an odd feeling and has tarnished the sub-3 a bit, anybody with more experience got any thoughts?

  • I feel your pain selbs - and have equally ok legs today. My legs felt not exactly sore or heavy but a bit of both. I was going to suggest fuelling but in your reply to Joe it doesn't look as though that was the issue (apart from the fact that you might have overdone it a little). Do you usually take so many days off before a race? I fend I'm much more sluggish if I do (but then I run every day usually). Other than that some sort of low level virus or cumulative fatigue? Frustrating as hell but despite that you managed a good result. Nottingham is a fast course if the wind isn't strong - 30th November. Tempted to have a crack at it myself but I think I may be risking divorce if I suggest it.

    I hope you enjoy Frankfurt Joe and can go fast enough to help Katie achieve her goal :-) You always seem to pull out the performances on the day so I have faith in you. Hope you both enjoy it.

    Charlie- glad you had a better run than expected. FWIW I don't think you recovered sufficiently after those ultras and I think some proper downtime for a couple of weeks will probably restore your bounce.

    shawk - you got what you wanted. Next time you'll know better how it feels and what you can and can't do but it doesn't sound as though you had much left yesterday?

    Now will all you guys stop deserting me for the Champs start - I'd like some pacers left and some pre race company please!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Great job shawk, sounds like a very sensibly run race. I wonder if only you can really say if you were too sensible early on? I'm not speaking from my own experiences but I know plenty of others who just missed out on sub 3 purely from a pacing perspective i.e. they were clearly fit enough and maybe had the near perfect build up but went out 5 seconds a mile too fast and that really caught up with them. So I think maybe you could have gone quicker (3 mins quicker might be a push!) but you seem to have executed a great race strategy with a sub 3 in mind.

    It goes back to my previous post a bit. If you wanna run a quick 5k you can try different strategies to see exactly what works for you. With marathons you just don't get that luxury. If I can go sub 3 in 6 weeks I might have the same thoughts as you about coulda, woulda, shoulda but hopefully I'd tell myself exactly what I'm saying to you: you should be really proud of your effort and remember that you've achieved your goal :)
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Shawk - That's a sub-3 run very well done, and comfortably so.  Full of  admiration,  it took me 3 goes to go sub-3 and of the 20 or so run, not one with a negative split.  Could you have run 2:56 yesterday, probably but you will never know.  What is clear is that you can kick-on from here and run faster times. 
    Not surprising people on here are a bit disappointed with their times yesterday, if you've all got really good legs today.  Have a big word with yourselves.  ;)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Wardi - thats an impressive streak for the year, nice.

    Al - you are good at marathons, only 4 weeks ago you wete struggling to get the mojo and training going after the summer commitments and yday you ran quicker that Solent and Bmouth. Top work.

    Charlie- well done, sub 2.50 as i thought. Got to be happy with that. There is more to knock off if you change things up a bit, as we have said before

    Selbs - good to spent time together agsin, you still had a good day and went for it. Unfortunately putting in your best training block/year doesnt guarantee success, yday was a tough day for some. The training will set you up for the next campaign thouggh.

    Tick Tock - great day out again, another sub 3, and you got to have a shower with me again. Whats not to like ?

    Lmh - step away from the race entry button,  i like your idea of a break and then maybe switch things up with some shorter races for a while ?
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